Lets open this discussion about legal alternatives to Steroids.

[Big Rick Rock]

Lets open this discussion about legal alternatives to Steroids.



Every time somebody brings up the word “proHormone” or “ProSteroid” guys will always say “its not better than the real thing”…

Just what is the real thing?

All of the steroids we use today were created 40-60 years ago.
This wonderful hormone called “Testosterone” has lent itself to be synthesized and altered into many different hormones that would otherwise not appear in nature. During the mid 90s due to a loophole in the law companies began to put out new hormones that where not in the list of banned substances from the Bush administration of 1990… The main problems with these first pro hormones were lack of absorption via oral delivery. The early andros just didn’t absorb well and as much as 90% of the product would be destroyed before it reached the blood stream…

Enter Methyl!

Taking a page out of illegal steroids cook book, companies began to add a Methyl to their prohormones. As you all know Methyl hormones like Dianabol, Winstrol, Anavar, and Anadrol have been in use for ages!... the Methylation helps theses hormones make it thru digestion and into our blood streams. Of methylated hormones ingested less than 5% is lost, the other 95% makes into the blood stream untouched!

Over the past couple of years a whole new family of Legal hormones has been created. These are not the Andros of the mid 90s but rather sophisticated engineered designer hormones. Some companies even started adding Ester chains to their hormones and selling them packaged in Sterile solutions that can be injectd. Due to the laws of our land, these companies must market their products as being for “Oral use” however they package their products in bottles that have a rubber stopper perfect for using a needle to draw the hormones and sterile solution containing BA/EA for sterility and suspension purposes.

Althought guys will always say “it is not as good as the real thing” I think they have a skewed view of these legal steroids… They are just as good as “the real thing”, in fact they are not imitation steroids, they are just different steroids…
I’m at a point in my life where taking the risk of receiving packages with illegal contents or having possession of them in my home is not really worth the risk.. I have a son and a career on the fast track! getting arrested right now would bring all of that to a screeching hault…
I’m looking for legal alternatives to achieving my goals, even if the progress is a bit slower, or even if I spend a little more money on creatine and other legal supps… Not going to jail and Not having to pay $everal grand to fight a case in court make it all worth it in the end.


I have tried a few pro hormones and I’m going to name a couple that I was really impressed with.


17a-Methyl-4-HydroxyNandrolone :
this is really a stand out in everything I have used. This hormone is Methylated so it is easily absorbed and almost nothing is lost during digestion. 13 times more ANABOLIC and 3 times more ANDROGENIC then testosterone!
I have a couple of our consultation clients on this stuff and the results have been phenomenal. One of these guys lives in So Cali and 17a-Methyl-4-HydroxyNandrolone
is now classified as a Schedule C-III steroid in three states: California, Montana and Nevada. I know, this is unbelievable and CRAZY, but it's the law. So, if your shipping address is one of the above mentioned three states, most companies can not ship to you.

Of course, there are people who have friends in the other 47 states that it's totally legal to have it shipped to them and then their friends work out some kind of shipping for them. Anyway, we are NOT condoning any law breaking. Just reporting back some customer feedback.

There is an injectable version in the works ( HydroxyNandrolone Decanoate) Just how Equipoise is a Esterified non-Methylated version of dianabol, so is HydroxyNandrolone Decanoate to 17a-Methyl-4-HydroxyNandrolone.



The other satnd out products I have tried is:


4-Hydroxy Testosterone Decanoate: Now this is a pretty cool fucking product… it is as Anabolic and Adrogenic as regular testosterone, but since they tweaked the hormone a bit it will not convert to either Estrogen OR DHT…

In fact, pharmaceutical giant Searle, filed a patent on how to manufacture this modified form of testosterone back in 1956. But luckily for us (and YOU), they never released the hormone commercially and hence, why we are able to as an OTC "supplement".

As stated above, 4-Hydroxy Testosterone Decanoate cannot convert to estrogen. But as another benefit, but it will convert to the powerful "suicide" aromatase inhibitor 4-hydroxyandrostenedione (better known as Formestane).


I have used these two products on myself and have some consultation clients that wanted to try a legal option to Steroids… This stuff has worked great for them.

I hope some of this info helps.

 

[doublebicep]

Lets open this discussion about legal alternatives to Steroids.



Every time somebody brings up the word “proHormone” or “ProSteroid” guys will always say “its not better than the real thing”…

Just what is the real thing?

All of the steroids we use today were created 40-60 years ago.
This wonderful hormone called “Testosterone” has lent itself to be synthesized and altered into many different hormones that would otherwise not appear in nature. During the mid 90s due to a loophole in the law companies began to put out new hormones that where not in the list of banned substances from the Bush administration of 1990… The main problems with these first pro hormones were lack of absorption via oral delivery. The early andros just didn’t absorb well and as much as 90% of the product would be destroyed before it reached the blood stream…

Enter Methyl!

Taking a page out of illegal steroids cook book, companies began to add a Methyl to their prohormones. As you all know Methyl hormones like Dianabol, Winstrol, Anavar, and Anadrol have been in use for ages!... the Methylation helps theses hormones make it thru digestion and into our blood streams. Of methylated hormones ingested less than 5% is lost, the other 95% makes into the blood stream untouched!

Over the past couple of years a whole new family of Legal hormones has been created. These are not the Andros of the mid 90s but rather sophisticated engineered designer hormones. Some companies even started adding Ester chains to their hormones and selling them packaged in Sterile solutions that can be injectd. Due to the laws of our land, these companies must market their products as being for “Oral use” however they package their products in bottles that have a rubber stopper perfect for using a needle to draw the hormones and sterile solution containing BA/EA for sterility and suspension purposes.

Althought guys will always say “it is not as good as the real thing” I think they have a skewed view of these legal steroids… They are just as good as “the real thing”, in fact they are not imitation steroids, they are just different steroids…
I’m at a point in my life where taking the risk of receiving packages with illegal contents or having possession of them in my home is not really worth the risk.. I have a son and a career on the fast track! getting arrested right now would bring all of that to a screeching hault…
I’m looking for legal alternatives to achieving my goals, even if the progress is a bit slower, or even if I spend a little more money on creatine and other legal supps… Not going to jail and Not having to pay $everal grand to fight a case in court make it all worth it in the end.


I have tried a few pro hormones and I’m going to name a couple that I was really impressed with.


17a-Methyl-4-HydroxyNandrolone :
this is really a stand out in everything I have used. This hormone is Methylated so it is easily absorbed and almost nothing is lost during digestion. 13 times more ANABOLIC and 3 times more ANDROGENIC then testosterone!
I have a couple of our consultation clients on this stuff and the results have been phenomenal. One of these guys lives in So Cali and 17a-Methyl-4-HydroxyNandrolone
is now classified as a Schedule C-III steroid in three states: California, Montana and Nevada. I know, this is unbelievable and CRAZY, but it's the law. So, if your shipping address is one of the above mentioned three states, most companies can not ship to you.

Of course, there are people who have friends in the other 47 states that it's totally legal to have it shipped to them and then their friends work out some kind of shipping for them. Anyway, we are NOT condoning any law breaking. Just reporting back some customer feedback.

There is an injectable version in the works ( HydroxyNandrolone Decanoate) Just how Equipoise is a Esterified non-Methylated version of dianabol, so is HydroxyNandrolone Decanoate to 17a-Methyl-4-HydroxyNandrolone.



The other satnd out products I have tried is:


4-Hydroxy Testosterone Decanoate: Now this is a pretty cool fucking product… it is as Anabolic and Adrogenic as regular testosterone, but since they tweaked the hormone a bit it will not convert to either Estrogen OR DHT…

In fact, pharmaceutical giant Searle, filed a patent on how to manufacture this modified form of testosterone back in 1956. But luckily for us (and YOU), they never released the hormone commercially and hence, why we are able to as an OTC "supplement".

As stated above, 4-Hydroxy Testosterone Decanoate cannot convert to estrogen. But as another benefit, but it will convert to the powerful "suicide" aromatase inhibitor 4-hydroxyandrostenedione (better known as Formestane).


I have used these two products on myself and have some consultation clients that wanted to try a legal option to Steroids… This stuff has worked great for them.

I hope some of this info helps.

Interesting topic! I have never tried any of these legal alternatives. I would like to hear more from those who have.

Are the HM.Gear products you mentions injectable?

Eventhough you have a boat load of karma...karma to you Big Rick Rock!

 

[Big Rick Rock]

Interesting topic! I have never tried any of these legal alternatives. I would like to hear more from those who have.

Are the HM.Gear products you mentions injectable?

Eventhough you have a boat load of karma...karma to you Big Rick Rock!

Their stuff is made in the largest compounding pharmacy in the USA... It is soluted and packaged steril.

The bottle are pretty cool, they have the regula twist off cap but the cap has a rubber stopper on it. You never have to take the security tape off the neck of the bottle, just put the pin right into the rubber.

 

[SlimJim300]

Excellent post, thank you.

 

[Becoming]

First off - what happened to the thread that was down in chat?

Mysteriously disappeared I think...

**************************************************
For all of you who don't already know - Its NOT better than the real thing...

I am NOT saying that these products will not have an effect - they most likely WILL - but what that effect is is totally UNKNOWN...


Making selectively androgenic/anabolic hormones is not as easy as putting in or taking out a methyl or a hydroxl group at random... and you CANNOT tell what effect it will have by THINKING about it, no matter how much experience you have.... exact effects require EXTENSIVE testing to deduce...

In binding receptors, hormones have VERY specific binding pattern and attraction to the receptor... One thing is for sure, a similar molecule absolutely WILL NOT bind in the exact same way to the intended receptor...

If they bind at all, there are several possibilities....
a) they could hyperactivate the receptor
b) they could activate the receptor to a lower than normal level
c) they could inhibit the receptor
d) they may permanently or temporarily render the receptor useless through a variety of mechanisms
e) they may bind normally (the rarest)

Also note that they may modify the balance of anabolic/androgenic activation effects as compared to the parent drug... (ie they may give results very UNLIKE the parent drug)

A majority of these products are COMPLETELY untested... some of them tout small studies done by labs which may or may not exist. If the study was done at all, why would you believe someone that most likely recieves payment for positive results?

If you want to find REAL and RELIABLE studies, look here http://www.ncbi.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi

You are free to do what you wish, but I would rather use a product that is at least tested in humans or animals in a REAL scientific study which has undergone peer review... (available via the link above) The recognized common steroid products (which are illegal) are also highly researched and both short and long term effects are well documented...

God knows what half of these are doing to you internally ("it is legal - why bother with a blood test!" ), or LONG TERM (no real studies have been done on most, not even in animals, much less long term HUMAN studies....)

If I was going to use a product, it would be a well-documented medically approved one....


Legitimate scientific programs have looked into developing effective products that are more effective than what we already have through very similar means (ie, making small modifications). How do you think they came up with DBOL back in the day? If they found something effective, and relatively safe they TESTED it and USED it... Many of the combos that are being touted as NEW have most likely been tested (some are actually mentioned in old studies) and left in the trash somewhere for most likely good reasons...

BTW reputable non-profit oriented real research labs are STILL looking into these products... they are called SARMs (Selective androgen receptor modulators) here are some studies... Products which you will see in the next 10 years are being researched today.... I hope your receptors (and YOU) are around to see them....

1: Bohl CE, Chang C, Mohler ML, Chen J, Miller DD, Swaan PW, Dalton JT.
A ligand-based approach to identify quantitative structure-activity relationships for the androgen receptor.
J Med Chem. 2004 Jul 15;47(15):3765-76.

2: Albrecht-Betancourt M, Hijazi RA, Cunningham GR.
Androgen replacement in men with hypogonadism and erectile dysfunction.
Endocrine. 2004 Mar-Apr;23(2-3):143-8.

3: Marhefka CA, Gao W, Chung K, Kim J, He Y, Yin D, Bohl C, Dalton JT, Miller DD.
Design, synthesis, and biological characterization of metabolically stable selective androgen receptor modulators.
J Med Chem. 2004 Feb 12;47(4):993-8.

4: Hanada K, Furuya K, Yamamoto N, Nejishima H, Ichikawa K, Nakamura T, Miyakawa M, Amano S, Sumita Y, Oguro N.
Bone anabolic effects of S-40503, a novel nonsteroidal selective androgen receptor modulator (SARM), in rat models of osteoporosis.
Biol Pharm Bull. 2003 Nov;26(11):1563-9.

5: Yin D, Gao W, Kearbey JD, Xu H, Chung K, He Y, Marhefka CA, Veverka KA, Miller DD, Dalton JT.
Pharmacodynamics of selective androgen receptor modulators.
J Pharmacol Exp Ther. 2003 Mar;304(3):1334-40.

6: Yin D, He Y, Perera MA, Hong SS, Marhefka C, Stourman N, Kirkovsky L, Miller DD, Dalton JT.
Key structural features of nonsteroidal ligands for binding and activation of the androgen receptor.
Mol Pharmacol. 2003 Jan;63(1):211-23.

7: Chen F, Rodan GA, Schmidt A.
Development of selective androgen receptor modulators and their therapeutic applications.
Zhonghua Nan Ke Xue. 2002;8(3):162-8. Review.

8: Roy AK, Tyagi RK, Song CS, Lavrovsky Y, Ahn SC, Oh TS, Chatterjee B.
Androgen receptor: structural domains and functional dynamics after ligand-receptor interaction.
Ann N Y Acad Sci. 2001 Dec;949:44-57. Review.

9: Negro-Vilar A.
Selective androgen receptor modulators (SARMs): a novel approach to androgen therapy for the new millennium.
J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1999 Oct;84(10):3459-62. Review. No abstract available.

****************************************************

For the record, I am natty but I am NOT against drugs for those that wish to use.... I am only for giving bros good info so that they can do their own research and prevent harming themselves...

Please note in my undergraduated and graduate education, I have written papers on receptor/drug binding and done both clinical (human) and animal studies with both accepted and experimental drugs....

Best wishes to all bros regardless of your decisions and do your OWN research... http://www.ncbi.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi

 

[Triple J]

Rick Rock what dosage levels do you recommend and what are the costs involved?

Methyl-1T is cheap enough but some others I have seen are a bit steep ..

 

[SlimJim300]

4 grams of VPX "test-OH" is $50 (cypionate ester)
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/vpx/4ht.html

2 grams of HMgear test-OH is $69 (decanoate ester)https://hmgear.com/products/testosterone-oh.shtml

--------------------------------------------------

360mg of SMS "oxanavar" is $28
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/sns/mohn.html

450mg of HMgear oxanavar is $69
https://hmgear.com/products/oxanavar.shtml

 

[Ulter]

I'll be glad when they ban PH's. They are not as safe as regular human tested AS, as the man from Michigan pointed out. They are not manufactured under anywhere near the same conditions that say, GD Searle makes oxandrolone under, and the sides are far worse while the results are less. The only good thing you can say about PH's is that they are legal.

 

[Big Rick Rock]

I'll be glad when they ban PH's. They are not as safe as regular human tested AS, as the man from Michigan pointed out. They are not manufactured under anywhere near the same conditions that say, GD Searle makes oxandrolone under, and the sides are far worse while the results are less. The only good thing you can say about PH's is that they are legal.

Not sure what you mean by that. except for a couple of US companies, pretty much everybody buys their raw material from china or India (including Anabolic Fitness).
The hormones I talked about, are made by the same Labs making the raw materials for the European and mexican brand illegal steroids.

 

[TheAssholeFomerlyKnownAsDBBT]

alternatives are gay and a waste of $, either do the real thing or just don't do anything at all