Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below Ive heard mixed opinions on this supp. I mentioned to my girlfriend that I was thinking about using it, and she went to whole foods and got me L-Glutamine caps made by Solgar. On the label it says to only take 1 cap a day and its only a 500 mg cap. It also says "long chains of molecularly bonded individual amino acids form protein. The body must first break these molecular (peptide) bonds for amino acid absorption to take place. Solgar's free form amino acids are already in their simplest form (no peptide bonds) and can be readily absorbed into the bloodstream." I thought that I have read somewhere on this board that that isnt how it works. Is this the right Glutamine to be taking, and how much should I be taking?
L-Glutamine
- Thread starter das79
- Start date
TheAssholeFomerlyKnownAsDBBT
New member
I take 10 grams of Glutamine every day, 5 before w/o and 5 after workoutdas79 said:
Glutamine does nothing for BB-ing purposes.
It may decrease muscle soreness through inhibiting synthesis of certain enzymes which stimulate the pain receptors, and therefore you get the idea you recover more quickly.
But don't let that fool you. Glutamine does not increase (or prevent decrease of) protein synthesis. Nor does it improve performance.
It may decrease muscle soreness through inhibiting synthesis of certain enzymes which stimulate the pain receptors, and therefore you get the idea you recover more quickly.
But don't let that fool you. Glutamine does not increase (or prevent decrease of) protein synthesis. Nor does it improve performance.
TheAssholeFomerlyKnownAsDBBT
New member
ur an idiot...Big'r said:
TheAssholeFomerlyKnownAsDBBT
New member
take it before and after workout, it's an anticatoblicdas79 said:
MikeMartial
New member
L-glutamine is just expensive food for your small intestine; ALL the research done on it as being anti-catabolic was done on burn patients recieving INTRAVENOUS doses.
Orally, there's almost no takeup into the bloodstream. N'uff said.
The jury is still out on glutamine peptides; I know the AF store pushes there peptides here, but I haven't come across a study yet.
My advice: Save your money.
Orally, there's almost no takeup into the bloodstream. N'uff said.
The jury is still out on glutamine peptides; I know the AF store pushes there peptides here, but I haven't come across a study yet.
My advice: Save your money.
TheAssholeFomerlyKnownAsDBBT
New member
my advise stick to martial arts you don't know about bodybuildingMikeMartial said:
TheAssholeFomerlyKnownAsDBBT
New member
1. What is it and where does it come from?
The extremely popular amino acid L-Glutamine can be found in protein powders, beans, meats, fish, poultry, dairy products, and of course, L-Glutamine supplements from Bodybuilding.com.
2. What does it do and what scientific studies give evidence to support this?
Glutamine is highly in demand throughout the body. It is used in the gut and immune system extensively to maintain optimal performance. 60% of free-form amino acids floating in skeletal muscles is L-glutamine. L-glutamine plays a very important role in protein metabolism, and it appears to be a very important nutrient for body builders. When supplemented, it may help body builders reduce the amount of muscle deterioration that occurs because other tissues that need glutamine will not rob the glutamine stored in the muscle cells.
Research shows that after intensely working out, glutamine levels in the body are reduced by as much as 50%. Since the body relies on glutamine as cellular fuel for the immune system, scientific studies have shown that glutamine supplementation can minimize the breakdown of muscle tissue and improve protein metabolism. Its effects on replenishing the body after stress or trauma have been shown in Europe where it is commonly given to patients in hospitals. Glutamine's cell-volumizing effects have also been shown in several studies. No conclusive studies have been done to evaluate the effects of L-glutamine supplementation on weight-training adults; however, a recent study showed up to a 400% increase in growth-hormone levels when as little as 2 grams of free-form L-glutamine supplement was consumed!
3. Who needs it and what are some symptoms of deficiency?
Bodybuilders can particularly gain from the intake of glutamine. Since bodybuilders use a lot of their glutamine when working out, they are more susceptible to health related problems, as the immune system relies heavily on this amino acid.
Catabolism or muscle break down can occur if the body robs muscles of glutamine for use elsewhere such as nitrogen transport or maintaining the immune system. Glutamine supplementation is certainly important in keeping muscles building--not deteriorating.
4. How much should be taken? Are there any side effects?
Bodybuilders can benefit by taking ten grams of L-glutamine per day, although clinical studies have not determined a precise amount for muscle metabolism optimization.
There are no side effects associated with L-glutamine, because it is a nutrient naturally occurring in the body. Reports of an upset stomach are associated with ingesting a great deal of glutamine, using smaller doses is recommended if this occurs.
The extremely popular amino acid L-Glutamine can be found in protein powders, beans, meats, fish, poultry, dairy products, and of course, L-Glutamine supplements from Bodybuilding.com.
2. What does it do and what scientific studies give evidence to support this?
Glutamine is highly in demand throughout the body. It is used in the gut and immune system extensively to maintain optimal performance. 60% of free-form amino acids floating in skeletal muscles is L-glutamine. L-glutamine plays a very important role in protein metabolism, and it appears to be a very important nutrient for body builders. When supplemented, it may help body builders reduce the amount of muscle deterioration that occurs because other tissues that need glutamine will not rob the glutamine stored in the muscle cells.
Research shows that after intensely working out, glutamine levels in the body are reduced by as much as 50%. Since the body relies on glutamine as cellular fuel for the immune system, scientific studies have shown that glutamine supplementation can minimize the breakdown of muscle tissue and improve protein metabolism. Its effects on replenishing the body after stress or trauma have been shown in Europe where it is commonly given to patients in hospitals. Glutamine's cell-volumizing effects have also been shown in several studies. No conclusive studies have been done to evaluate the effects of L-glutamine supplementation on weight-training adults; however, a recent study showed up to a 400% increase in growth-hormone levels when as little as 2 grams of free-form L-glutamine supplement was consumed!
3. Who needs it and what are some symptoms of deficiency?
Bodybuilders can particularly gain from the intake of glutamine. Since bodybuilders use a lot of their glutamine when working out, they are more susceptible to health related problems, as the immune system relies heavily on this amino acid.
Catabolism or muscle break down can occur if the body robs muscles of glutamine for use elsewhere such as nitrogen transport or maintaining the immune system. Glutamine supplementation is certainly important in keeping muscles building--not deteriorating.
4. How much should be taken? Are there any side effects?
Bodybuilders can benefit by taking ten grams of L-glutamine per day, although clinical studies have not determined a precise amount for muscle metabolism optimization.
There are no side effects associated with L-glutamine, because it is a nutrient naturally occurring in the body. Reports of an upset stomach are associated with ingesting a great deal of glutamine, using smaller doses is recommended if this occurs.
KIAN
New member
Existing glutamine within the body plays a very important role and I would agree with most of what DBBT has quoted from bodybuilding.com. The problem is when you decide to supplement with glutamine. Glutamine in its free form (L-glutamine) is very unstable in a solution and so very little is actually utilised by the body. To get around this, it is now available as glutamine peptides. They are usually identified as Ala-Gln (L-alanyl-L-glutamine) and Gly-Gln (Gglycyl-L-glutamine). It is believed that, in this form, more of the glutamine will actaully be utilised by the body. Whether this will be of an advantage to a healthy individual in bodybuilding is still open to debate as current studies only support its affective use in treating individuals where L-glutamine has become an essential amino acid as a result of severe trauma and not a non-essential amino acid which is what it is for everyone else. If you want to supplement with it then the peptide form would be your best bet (not guaranteeing that it will show any significant effects though) but you will also find L-glutamine in any protein powders (at lower levels) which you are currently using.
Glutamine is considered safe with the exception of using it when using Doxorubicin which is part of chemotherapy treatment.
________________
KP--Fitness Basics
.
Glutamine is considered safe with the exception of using it when using Doxorubicin which is part of chemotherapy treatment.
________________
KP--Fitness Basics
.
MikeMartial
New member
As always, informative posting, Kian. I was hoping you'd chime in 
ANd here's some more reading for (DBBT) anyone interested.
An excerpt from "Appetite For Construction
Building Results From Research"
by John M. Berardi
Should I Spend my Hard-Earned Money on Glutamine or Hookers?
.... A high protein diet provides a big whack of glutamine as it is. In fact, if you follow standard bodybuilding protein recommendations, about 10% of your total dietary protein intake is composed of glutamine (milk proteins are composed of somewhere between 3 — 10% glutamine while meat is composed of about 15% glutamine). This means that a high protein diet (400g/day) already provides me with about 40g of glutamine.
• While the theorists still cling to the idea that since glutamine helps clinical stress, it might help with exercise stress, it‚s important to note that exercise stress has got nothin‚ on surgery, cancer, sepsis, burns, etc. For example, when compared with downhill running or weight lifting, urinary nitrogen loss is 15x (1400%) greater in minor surgery, 25x (2400%) greater in major surgery, and 33x (3200%) greater in sepsis. When it comes to the immune response, it‚s about 9x (800%) greater with surgery. When it comes to metabolic increase, it‚s 7x (600%) greater with burn injury, and when it comes to creatine kinase release; it‚s about 2x (100%) greater with surgery. As I said, exercise has got nothin‚ on real, clinical stress. It‚s like trying to compare the damage inflicted by a peashooter and that inflicted by a rocket launcher.
• The major studies examining glutamine supplementation in otherwise healthy weightlifters have shown no effect. In the study by Candow et al (2001), 0.9g of supplemental glutamine/kg/day had no impact on muscle performance, body composition, and protein degradation. Folks, that's 90g per day for some lifters.
• The majority of the studies using glutamine supplementation in endurance athletes have shown little to no measurable benefit on performance or immune function.
• And with respect to glycogen replenishment in endurance athletes, it's interesting to note that the first study that looked at glycogen resynthesis using glutamine missed a couple of things. Basically, the study showed that after a few glycogen depleting hours of cycling at a high percentage of VO2 max interspersed with very intense cycle sprints that were supramaximal, a drink containing 8g of glutamine replenished glycogen to the same extent as a drink containing 61g of carbohydrate.
The problem was that during the recovery period, a constant IV infusion of labeled glucose was given (i.e., a little bit of glucose was given to both groups by IV infusion). While this isn't too big of a deal on its own since the infusion only provided a couple of grams of glucose, the other problem is that during glycogen depleting exercise, a lot of alanine, lactate, and other gluconeogenic precursors are released from the muscle.
What this means is that there's a good amount of glucose that will be formed after such exercise, glucose that will be made in the liver from the gluconeogenic precursors and that will travel to the muscle to replenish glycogen. Therefore, without a placebo group that receives no calories, carbohydrates, or glutamine, we have no idea of knowing whether or not the placebo would have generated the same amount of glycogen replenishment as the glutamine group or the glutamine plus carbohydrate group. To say it another way, perhaps there's a normal glycogen replenishment curve that was unaffected by any of the treatments.
• And finally, with respect to the claims that glutamine might increase cell swelling/volume (something I once believed was a reality), we decided to test this theory out in our lab using multifrequency bioelectric impedance analysis as well as magnetic resonance spectroscopy. The pilot data that's kicking around has demonstrated that glutamine supplementation has no effect on total body water, intracellular fluid volumes, or extracellular fluid volumes (as measured by mBIA) and has no effect on muscle volume (as measured by nMRS)...
...bottom line: l-glutamine isn't stable in the enviroment of our oral tract and GI tract. You think your actually getting any into skeletal muscle from powdered supplementation? If that's the case, I have a bridge to sell you.
Like I said before, peptides may offer a better alternative.
ANd here's some more reading for (DBBT) anyone interested.
An excerpt from "Appetite For Construction
Building Results From Research"
by John M. Berardi
Should I Spend my Hard-Earned Money on Glutamine or Hookers?
.... A high protein diet provides a big whack of glutamine as it is. In fact, if you follow standard bodybuilding protein recommendations, about 10% of your total dietary protein intake is composed of glutamine (milk proteins are composed of somewhere between 3 — 10% glutamine while meat is composed of about 15% glutamine). This means that a high protein diet (400g/day) already provides me with about 40g of glutamine.
• While the theorists still cling to the idea that since glutamine helps clinical stress, it might help with exercise stress, it‚s important to note that exercise stress has got nothin‚ on surgery, cancer, sepsis, burns, etc. For example, when compared with downhill running or weight lifting, urinary nitrogen loss is 15x (1400%) greater in minor surgery, 25x (2400%) greater in major surgery, and 33x (3200%) greater in sepsis. When it comes to the immune response, it‚s about 9x (800%) greater with surgery. When it comes to metabolic increase, it‚s 7x (600%) greater with burn injury, and when it comes to creatine kinase release; it‚s about 2x (100%) greater with surgery. As I said, exercise has got nothin‚ on real, clinical stress. It‚s like trying to compare the damage inflicted by a peashooter and that inflicted by a rocket launcher.
• The major studies examining glutamine supplementation in otherwise healthy weightlifters have shown no effect. In the study by Candow et al (2001), 0.9g of supplemental glutamine/kg/day had no impact on muscle performance, body composition, and protein degradation. Folks, that's 90g per day for some lifters.
• The majority of the studies using glutamine supplementation in endurance athletes have shown little to no measurable benefit on performance or immune function.
• And with respect to glycogen replenishment in endurance athletes, it's interesting to note that the first study that looked at glycogen resynthesis using glutamine missed a couple of things. Basically, the study showed that after a few glycogen depleting hours of cycling at a high percentage of VO2 max interspersed with very intense cycle sprints that were supramaximal, a drink containing 8g of glutamine replenished glycogen to the same extent as a drink containing 61g of carbohydrate.
The problem was that during the recovery period, a constant IV infusion of labeled glucose was given (i.e., a little bit of glucose was given to both groups by IV infusion). While this isn't too big of a deal on its own since the infusion only provided a couple of grams of glucose, the other problem is that during glycogen depleting exercise, a lot of alanine, lactate, and other gluconeogenic precursors are released from the muscle.
What this means is that there's a good amount of glucose that will be formed after such exercise, glucose that will be made in the liver from the gluconeogenic precursors and that will travel to the muscle to replenish glycogen. Therefore, without a placebo group that receives no calories, carbohydrates, or glutamine, we have no idea of knowing whether or not the placebo would have generated the same amount of glycogen replenishment as the glutamine group or the glutamine plus carbohydrate group. To say it another way, perhaps there's a normal glycogen replenishment curve that was unaffected by any of the treatments.
• And finally, with respect to the claims that glutamine might increase cell swelling/volume (something I once believed was a reality), we decided to test this theory out in our lab using multifrequency bioelectric impedance analysis as well as magnetic resonance spectroscopy. The pilot data that's kicking around has demonstrated that glutamine supplementation has no effect on total body water, intracellular fluid volumes, or extracellular fluid volumes (as measured by mBIA) and has no effect on muscle volume (as measured by nMRS)...
...bottom line: l-glutamine isn't stable in the enviroment of our oral tract and GI tract. You think your actually getting any into skeletal muscle from powdered supplementation? If that's the case, I have a bridge to sell you.
Like I said before, peptides may offer a better alternative.
das79 said:
Respect for being openminded.
It's not that you have to believe DBBT or me for what we say. Be critical and ask if we can back up our claims by posting studies proving our points.
I know i can!
DBBT said:
Since you have 14.000 + posts i know you can back this up by posting relevant studies done on healthy subjects.
Go ahead..........
Your not going to compare surgical stress (conditions under which people cannot even move a limb any more) to exercise induced physical stress are you?
I take a lot of supplements, including this one. I do it in the hope my body is not getting "something" through foods and this supplement will provide it. And ... WOW! ... something new and incredibly wonderful happens!
What if we find out some day that our bodies do get all it use through food and we've been wasting our $$? All those supplements been going down the plumbing.
I hope not.
What if we find out some day that our bodies do get all it use through food and we've been wasting our $$? All those supplements been going down the plumbing.
I hope not.
TheAssholeFomerlyKnownAsDBBT
New member
Research shows that after intensely working out, glutamine levels in the body are reduced by as much as 50%. Since the body relies on glutamine as cellular fuel for the immune system, scientific studies have shown that glutamine supplementation can minimize the breakdown of muscle tissue and improve protein metabolism.
Nuff Said
Nuff Said
DBBT said:
Performance of what? The gut?
DBBT said:
References?
Results of tracer studies indicate that skeletal muscle contributes to approximately 70% of overall glutamine production in healthy adults; the contribution of de novo synthesis being estimated at approximately 60%. Direct and specific measurements of glutamine in intact muscle protein are 50% lower than assumed previously
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...d&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=10500016&query_hl=1
DBBT said:
Glutamine prevents protein degradation but not more effectively than carbs.
90% of the glutamine you take orally never even makes it to your muscles. Glutamine supplementation decreases it's own synthesis and mostly turns itself into glucose.
DBBT said:
Which can easily be prevented by using carbs or BCAAs (the latter actually DO prevent protein breakdown.)
DBBT said:
References?
DBBT said:
Is this a hospital board?
DBBT said:
Amino acids elevate GH, fat elevates test., and carbs increase insulin/decrease cortisol. Change of 1 hormone does not automatically mean an increase in protein synthesis. If you have a different opinion on this, i'd like to read you source!
DBBT said:
Glutamine does not prevent exercise-induced immune impairment. Carbs do. And glutamine does not influence hormonal levels.
DBBT said:
Proof? Are you gonna post up studies backing up your claims, or are you gonna share more theories?
DBBT said:
META ANALYSIS:
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/74/1/25
TheAssholeFomerlyKnownAsDBBT
New member
Research shows that after intensely working out, glutamine levels in the body are reduced by as much as 50%. Since the body relies on glutamine as cellular fuel for the immune system, scientific studies have shown that glutamine supplementation can minimize the breakdown of muscle tissue and improve protein metabolism.
MikeMartial
New member
DBBT said:
My "advice" would be to be take a spelling course, and not to tell people what they know or don't know, especially when you don't know who they are.
Nice cut n'paste of your own post.
Don't get me wrong---I'm always open to new studies on glutamine. I would love it if it worked; it'd be the perfect supplement for me. And yes, I've taken it, up to 20/30 grams a day. It's just that's there's zero evidence it works. Supplement companies "claim" it works, because they want to rake in the $$$----that's why someone pitched the burn patient study, saying it was the next big thing. How often have you heard that??
Anecdotal stories? Sure, enough to fill a boat. But no double-blind, placebo controlled studies in healthy athletes.
TheAssholeFomerlyKnownAsDBBT
New member
mr. meeyagii-
and co.
if youre not reaping the benefits of your supps its prolly cuz you get the cheap stuff. don't blame the fact that youre not a black belt yet on your glutamine dose
hows your diet, training, and LITTLE stuff like that...lol
and co.
if youre not reaping the benefits of your supps its prolly cuz you get the cheap stuff. don't blame the fact that youre not a black belt yet on your glutamine dose
hows your diet, training, and LITTLE stuff like that...lolLet's put it another way:
GLUTAMINE DOES NOTING FOR BB-ING PURPOSES
Glutamine production in muscle protein is 50% lower than assumed
-Results of tracer studies indicate that skeletal muscle contributes to approximately 70% of overall glutamine production in healthy adults; the contribution of de novo synthesis being estimated at approximately 60%. Direct and specific measurements of glutamine in intact muscle protein are 50% lower than assumed previously (G1).
Most amino acids are precursors for alanine and glutamine synthesis in skeletal muscle
-Cysteine, leucine, valine, methionine, isoleucine, tyrosine, lysine, and phenylalanine increase the rate of glutamine synthesis. The progressive decline in alanine and glutamine synthesis noted on prolonged incubation is prevented by the addition of amino acids to the incubation medium (G2)
90% of the glutamine you take orally never even makes it to your muscles. Glutamine supplementation decreases it's own synthesis and mostly turns itself into glucose.
-Systemic glutamine administration is ineffective in preventing muscle depletion, due to a relative inability of skeletal muscle to seize glutamine from the bloodstream. Transport from blood accounts for only 25% of the intramuscular glutamine pool turnover. In contrast, the intracellular pools of most essential amino acids, such as phenylalanine or leucine, derived largely from the extracellular space. Studies involving oral ingestion of stable isotope-labelled glutamine indicate that 50-70% of enterally administered glutamine is taken up during first pass by splanchnic organs (gut and liver). (G14).
-Glutamine orally is successful in elevating plasma glutamine at the peak concentration by 46%, which suggests that a substantial proportion of the oral load escaped utilization by the gut mucosal cells and uptake by the liver and kidneys. If the entire glutamine dose had been distributed within the blood (8% body wt) and extracellular fluid (20% lean body mass) compartments, then a 3-mM rise in blood glutamine concentration might have been expected, whereas plasma glutamine concentration was only observed to rise by 0.3 mM. This might suggest that only 10% of the oral dose reached the extracellular fluid compartments (G15).
-Infusion of glutamine increases plasma glutamine concentration and turnover only threefold, formation of glucose from glutamine increased sevenfold. Furthermore, glutamine infusion decreased its own de novo synthesis (4.55 +/- 0.22 vs. 2.81 +/- 0.62 micromol x kg(-1) x min(-1);P < 0.02) (G16).
Glutamine does not prevent exercise-induced immune impairment. Carbs do. And glutamine does not influence hormonal levels
-Consuming 30-60 g carbohydrate x h(-1) during sustained intensive exercise attenuates rises in stress hormones such as cortisol and appears to limit the degree of exercise-induced immune depression. Convincing evidence that so-called 'immune-boosting' supplements, including high doses of antioxidant vitamins, glutamine, zinc, probiotics and Echinacea, prevent exercise-induced immune impairment is currently lacking (G31).
-Intracellular glutamine concentration may not be compromised when plasma levels are decreased postexercise. In addition, a number of recent intervention studies with glutamine feeding demonstrate that, although the plasma concentration of glutamine is kept constant during and after acute, strenuous exercise, glutamine supplementation does not abolish the postexercise decrease in in vitro cellular immunity, including low lymphocyte number, impaired lymphocyte proliferation, impaired natural killer and lymphokine-activated killer cell activity, as well as low production rate and concentration of salivary IgA (G32).
-Glutamine supplementation abolished the postexercise decline in plasma glutamine concentration but had no effect on lymphocyte trafficking, NK and lymphokine-activated killer cell activities, T cell proliferation, catecholamines, growth hormone, insulin, or glucose (G33).
-Nutritional supplementation with glutamine abolishes the exercise-induced decline in plasma glutamine, but does not influence post-exercise immune impairment. However, carbohydrate loading diminishes most exercise effects of cytokines, lymphocyte and neutrophils (G34).
Glutamine does not increase protein synthesis
-Intravenous infusion of amino acids increases the fractional rate of mixed muscle protein synthesis, but addition of glutamine to the amino acid mixture does not further stimulate muscle protein synthesis rate in healthy young men and women (G6).
-Short intravenous infusion of glutamine does not acutely stimulate duodenal protein synthesis in well-nourished, growing dogs (G8).
Glutamine prevents protein degradation but not more effectively than carbs
-0,9 g/kg glutamine during resistance training has no significant effect on muscle performance, body composition or muscle protein degradation compared to 0,9 g/kg maltodextrin (G9).
-Glutamine preserves protein synthesis in Caco-2 cells submitted to "luminal fasting", but higher glutamine doses did not enhance protein synthesis beyond control fed values. And glucose supplementation restored FSR as effi-ciently as glutamine (G10).
Carbhohydrate or BCAA supplementation prevents decrease in glutamine levels during exercise
-Carbohydrate supplementation affects positively the immune response of cyclists by avoiding or minimizing changes in plasma glutamine concentration (G11).
-Following an exercise bout, a decrease in plasma glutamine concentration can be observed, which is completely abolished by BCAA supplementation (G12).
-BCAA supplementation during a triathlon completely prevents the decrease in plasma glutamine (G13).
-7 distance runners reduced muscle gycogen. A high carb meal (80% carbs) before 60 min. exercise increases plasma glutamine. A 14 h fast before exercise does not change plasma glutamine. Plasma BCAA did not change under either dietary condition (G17).
Fasting decreases glutamine transport. And supplementation during fasting does not prevent muscle loss
-During fasting, skeletal muscle exports increased amounts of glutamine (Gln) while increasing the production of this amino acid by glutamine synthetase (GS) in order to maintain the intramuscular Gln pool (G41).
-Background: One of the major activities of the enterocyte is amino acid transport, which is important not only for the organism but also for the integrity of the mucosa. Bowel rest during the postoperative period is marked by decreased calorie and protein intake with atrophy of the brush border mucosa.
Fasting for 72 hours decreases glutamine and arginine transport. Alanine MeAIB, and leucine transport were maintained (G42).
-0.35 g/kg glutamine/day does not prevent loss of lean muscle in athletes during a 12-day weight reduction program (G43).
Glutamine does not enhance performance
-6 resistance-trained men performed weightlifting exercises after ingesting 0.3 g/kg glutamine. This did not enhance performance (G22).
REFERENCES
(G1) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...d&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=10500016&query_hl=1
(G2) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=1249059&query_hl=1
(G6) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...d&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11145116&query_hl=1
(G7) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...d&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12006808&query_hl=1
(G8) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...d&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=10198312&query_hl=1
(G9) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11822473&dopt=Abstract
(G10) http://ajpgi.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/285/1/G128
(G11) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...d&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12381341&query_hl=1
(G12) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...d&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11985939&query_hl=1
(G13) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...d&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=10912884&query_hl=1
(G14)http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...d&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16084750&query_hl=5
Complete studie: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?p=7234016#post7234016
(G15)http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/86/6/1770
(G16)http://ajpendo.physiology.org/cgi/content/abstract/272/3/E437
(G17)http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=9202952&query_hl=1
(G22)http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11834123&dopt=Abstract
(G31)http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...d&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=14971437&query_hl=1
(G32)http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...d&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12183472&query_hl=1
(G33)http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...d&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11546663&query_hl=1
(G34)http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...d&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=10604210&query_hl=1
(G41)http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...d&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=14613760&query_hl=1
(G42)http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=7940166&query_hl=1
(G43)http://www.jssm.org/vol2/n4/7/v2n4-7pdf.pdf
GLUTAMINE DOES NOTING FOR BB-ING PURPOSES
Glutamine production in muscle protein is 50% lower than assumed
-Results of tracer studies indicate that skeletal muscle contributes to approximately 70% of overall glutamine production in healthy adults; the contribution of de novo synthesis being estimated at approximately 60%. Direct and specific measurements of glutamine in intact muscle protein are 50% lower than assumed previously (G1).
Most amino acids are precursors for alanine and glutamine synthesis in skeletal muscle
-Cysteine, leucine, valine, methionine, isoleucine, tyrosine, lysine, and phenylalanine increase the rate of glutamine synthesis. The progressive decline in alanine and glutamine synthesis noted on prolonged incubation is prevented by the addition of amino acids to the incubation medium (G2)
90% of the glutamine you take orally never even makes it to your muscles. Glutamine supplementation decreases it's own synthesis and mostly turns itself into glucose.
-Systemic glutamine administration is ineffective in preventing muscle depletion, due to a relative inability of skeletal muscle to seize glutamine from the bloodstream. Transport from blood accounts for only 25% of the intramuscular glutamine pool turnover. In contrast, the intracellular pools of most essential amino acids, such as phenylalanine or leucine, derived largely from the extracellular space. Studies involving oral ingestion of stable isotope-labelled glutamine indicate that 50-70% of enterally administered glutamine is taken up during first pass by splanchnic organs (gut and liver). (G14).
-Glutamine orally is successful in elevating plasma glutamine at the peak concentration by 46%, which suggests that a substantial proportion of the oral load escaped utilization by the gut mucosal cells and uptake by the liver and kidneys. If the entire glutamine dose had been distributed within the blood (8% body wt) and extracellular fluid (20% lean body mass) compartments, then a 3-mM rise in blood glutamine concentration might have been expected, whereas plasma glutamine concentration was only observed to rise by 0.3 mM. This might suggest that only 10% of the oral dose reached the extracellular fluid compartments (G15).
-Infusion of glutamine increases plasma glutamine concentration and turnover only threefold, formation of glucose from glutamine increased sevenfold. Furthermore, glutamine infusion decreased its own de novo synthesis (4.55 +/- 0.22 vs. 2.81 +/- 0.62 micromol x kg(-1) x min(-1);P < 0.02) (G16).
Glutamine does not prevent exercise-induced immune impairment. Carbs do. And glutamine does not influence hormonal levels
-Consuming 30-60 g carbohydrate x h(-1) during sustained intensive exercise attenuates rises in stress hormones such as cortisol and appears to limit the degree of exercise-induced immune depression. Convincing evidence that so-called 'immune-boosting' supplements, including high doses of antioxidant vitamins, glutamine, zinc, probiotics and Echinacea, prevent exercise-induced immune impairment is currently lacking (G31).
-Intracellular glutamine concentration may not be compromised when plasma levels are decreased postexercise. In addition, a number of recent intervention studies with glutamine feeding demonstrate that, although the plasma concentration of glutamine is kept constant during and after acute, strenuous exercise, glutamine supplementation does not abolish the postexercise decrease in in vitro cellular immunity, including low lymphocyte number, impaired lymphocyte proliferation, impaired natural killer and lymphokine-activated killer cell activity, as well as low production rate and concentration of salivary IgA (G32).
-Glutamine supplementation abolished the postexercise decline in plasma glutamine concentration but had no effect on lymphocyte trafficking, NK and lymphokine-activated killer cell activities, T cell proliferation, catecholamines, growth hormone, insulin, or glucose (G33).
-Nutritional supplementation with glutamine abolishes the exercise-induced decline in plasma glutamine, but does not influence post-exercise immune impairment. However, carbohydrate loading diminishes most exercise effects of cytokines, lymphocyte and neutrophils (G34).
Glutamine does not increase protein synthesis
-Intravenous infusion of amino acids increases the fractional rate of mixed muscle protein synthesis, but addition of glutamine to the amino acid mixture does not further stimulate muscle protein synthesis rate in healthy young men and women (G6).
-Short intravenous infusion of glutamine does not acutely stimulate duodenal protein synthesis in well-nourished, growing dogs (G8).
Glutamine prevents protein degradation but not more effectively than carbs
-0,9 g/kg glutamine during resistance training has no significant effect on muscle performance, body composition or muscle protein degradation compared to 0,9 g/kg maltodextrin (G9).
-Glutamine preserves protein synthesis in Caco-2 cells submitted to "luminal fasting", but higher glutamine doses did not enhance protein synthesis beyond control fed values. And glucose supplementation restored FSR as effi-ciently as glutamine (G10).
Carbhohydrate or BCAA supplementation prevents decrease in glutamine levels during exercise
-Carbohydrate supplementation affects positively the immune response of cyclists by avoiding or minimizing changes in plasma glutamine concentration (G11).
-Following an exercise bout, a decrease in plasma glutamine concentration can be observed, which is completely abolished by BCAA supplementation (G12).
-BCAA supplementation during a triathlon completely prevents the decrease in plasma glutamine (G13).
-7 distance runners reduced muscle gycogen. A high carb meal (80% carbs) before 60 min. exercise increases plasma glutamine. A 14 h fast before exercise does not change plasma glutamine. Plasma BCAA did not change under either dietary condition (G17).
Fasting decreases glutamine transport. And supplementation during fasting does not prevent muscle loss
-During fasting, skeletal muscle exports increased amounts of glutamine (Gln) while increasing the production of this amino acid by glutamine synthetase (GS) in order to maintain the intramuscular Gln pool (G41).
-Background: One of the major activities of the enterocyte is amino acid transport, which is important not only for the organism but also for the integrity of the mucosa. Bowel rest during the postoperative period is marked by decreased calorie and protein intake with atrophy of the brush border mucosa.
Fasting for 72 hours decreases glutamine and arginine transport. Alanine MeAIB, and leucine transport were maintained (G42).
-0.35 g/kg glutamine/day does not prevent loss of lean muscle in athletes during a 12-day weight reduction program (G43).
Glutamine does not enhance performance
-6 resistance-trained men performed weightlifting exercises after ingesting 0.3 g/kg glutamine. This did not enhance performance (G22).
REFERENCES
(G1) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...d&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=10500016&query_hl=1
(G2) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=1249059&query_hl=1
(G6) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...d&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11145116&query_hl=1
(G7) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...d&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12006808&query_hl=1
(G8) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...d&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=10198312&query_hl=1
(G9) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11822473&dopt=Abstract
(G10) http://ajpgi.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/285/1/G128
(G11) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...d&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12381341&query_hl=1
(G12) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...d&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11985939&query_hl=1
(G13) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...d&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=10912884&query_hl=1
(G14)http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...d&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16084750&query_hl=5
Complete studie: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?p=7234016#post7234016
(G15)http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/86/6/1770
(G16)http://ajpendo.physiology.org/cgi/content/abstract/272/3/E437
(G17)http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=9202952&query_hl=1
(G22)http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11834123&dopt=Abstract
(G31)http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...d&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=14971437&query_hl=1
(G32)http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...d&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12183472&query_hl=1
(G33)http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...d&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11546663&query_hl=1
(G34)http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...d&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=10604210&query_hl=1
(G41)http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...d&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=14613760&query_hl=1
(G42)http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=7940166&query_hl=1
(G43)http://www.jssm.org/vol2/n4/7/v2n4-7pdf.pdf
MikeMartial
New member
You must spread some Karma around before giving it to Big'r again.
Excellent post, Big'r. Welcome to EF, hope to see you post again. I'll throw some K your way when I can again.
Excellent post, Big'r. Welcome to EF, hope to see you post again. I'll throw some K your way when I can again.
MikeMartial said:You must spread some Karma around before giving it to Big'r again.
Excellent post, Big'r. Welcome to EF, hope to see you post again. I'll throw some K your way when I can again.
Thanx, Mike!
-G51)Although glu-tamine is generally recognized to be safe on the basis of relatively small studies, side effects in patients receiving home parenteral nutrition and in those with liver-function abnormali-ties have been described. Therefore, on the basis of currently available clinical data, it is inappropriate to recommend gluta-mine for therapeutic use in any condition.
There is little confirmatory evidence of glutamine deficiency in humans and of a role for either glutamine replacement therapy or pharmacologic doses of glutamine. Decreased blood concentrations of glutamine do not necessarily indicate a deficient state, as is the case with other nutrients. The loss of amino acids from skeletal muscle is not specific to glutamine.
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/74/1/25
-G52)Inflammation rather than nutritional depletion determines glutamine concentrations and intestinal permeability.
Glutamine supplementation may not even effect plasma and mucosal glutamine concentrations at all. There are concflicting results and the reason for this has not been clarified yet. Major changes in glutamine metabolism take place during inflammatory stress and glutamine supplementation has been most successful under these circumstances. Nutritional depletion per se does not affect glutamine concentrations.
Complete study: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=243251
Last claim i made:
The faster recovery people notice on glutamine is not an increase in protein synthesis (net protein balance). It is not a placebo but because of a decreased stimulus of the pain receptors:
The possible decrease in muscle soreness people sense following glutamine during a high-glutamine diet is possibly caused by the anti-inflammatory properties of glutamine. AND NOT BECAUSE OF A SUPPOSED INCREASE IN PROTEIN SYNTHESIS/DECREASE IN PROTEIN BREAKDOWN CAUSED BY GLUTAMINE.
Therefore glutamine does not actually speed up recovery, it just feels like it does so!
The faster recovery people notice on glutamine is not an increase in protein synthesis (net protein balance). It is not a placebo but because of a decreased stimulus of the pain receptors:
The possible decrease in muscle soreness people sense following glutamine during a high-glutamine diet is possibly caused by the anti-inflammatory properties of glutamine. AND NOT BECAUSE OF A SUPPOSED INCREASE IN PROTEIN SYNTHESIS/DECREASE IN PROTEIN BREAKDOWN CAUSED BY GLUTAMINE.
Therefore glutamine does not actually speed up recovery, it just feels like it does so!
Glutamine doesn't even play any role whatsoever in protein synthesis:
http://www.pubmedcentral.gov/pagerender.fcgi?artid=436742&pageindex=1#page
http://www.pubmedcentral.gov/pagerender.fcgi?artid=436742&pageindex=1#page
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