L-Glutamine

[KIAN]

Existing glutamine within the body plays a very important role and I would agree with most of what DBBT has quoted from bodybuilding.com. The problem is when you decide to supplement with glutamine. Glutamine in its free form (L-glutamine) is very unstable in a solution and so very little is actually utilised by the body. To get around this, it is now available as glutamine peptides. They are usually identified as Ala-Gln (L-alanyl-L-glutamine) and Gly-Gln (Gglycyl-L-glutamine). It is believed that, in this form, more of the glutamine will actaully be utilised by the body. Whether this will be of an advantage to a healthy individual in bodybuilding is still open to debate as current studies only support its affective use in treating individuals where L-glutamine has become an essential amino acid as a result of severe trauma and not a non-essential amino acid which is what it is for everyone else. If you want to supplement with it then the peptide form would be your best bet (not guaranteeing that it will show any significant effects though) but you will also find L-glutamine in any protein powders (at lower levels) which you are currently using.

Glutamine is considered safe with the exception of using it when using Doxorubicin which is part of chemotherapy treatment.

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KP--Fitness Basics

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[Big'r]

ur an idiot...

WOW. Lot's of respect man. Keeping an intelligent discussion at bay by flaming someone who can actually back up his claims.

What's this? You do not ask someone why he states something, and just send him negative reps! Taught that at preschool?

 

[MikeMartial]

As always, informative posting, Kian. I was hoping you'd chime in

ANd here's some more reading for (DBBT) anyone interested.

An excerpt from "Appetite For Construction
Building Results From Research"
by John M. Berardi

Should I Spend my Hard-Earned Money on Glutamine or Hookers?

.... A high protein diet provides a big whack of glutamine as it is. In fact, if you follow standard bodybuilding protein recommendations, about 10% of your total dietary protein intake is composed of glutamine (milk proteins are composed of somewhere between 3 — 10% glutamine while meat is composed of about 15% glutamine). This means that a high protein diet (400g/day) already provides me with about 40g of glutamine.

• While the theorists still cling to the idea that since glutamine helps clinical stress, it might help with exercise stress, it‚s important to note that exercise stress has got nothin‚ on surgery, cancer, sepsis, burns, etc. For example, when compared with downhill running or weight lifting, urinary nitrogen loss is 15x (1400%) greater in minor surgery, 25x (2400%) greater in major surgery, and 33x (3200%) greater in sepsis. When it comes to the immune response, it‚s about 9x (800%) greater with surgery. When it comes to metabolic increase, it‚s 7x (600%) greater with burn injury, and when it comes to creatine kinase release; it‚s about 2x (100%) greater with surgery. As I said, exercise has got nothin‚ on real, clinical stress. It‚s like trying to compare the damage inflicted by a peashooter and that inflicted by a rocket launcher.

• The major studies examining glutamine supplementation in otherwise healthy weightlifters have shown no effect. In the study by Candow et al (2001), 0.9g of supplemental glutamine/kg/day had no impact on muscle performance, body composition, and protein degradation. Folks, that's 90g per day for some lifters.

• The majority of the studies using glutamine supplementation in endurance athletes have shown little to no measurable benefit on performance or immune function.

• And with respect to glycogen replenishment in endurance athletes, it's interesting to note that the first study that looked at glycogen resynthesis using glutamine missed a couple of things. Basically, the study showed that after a few glycogen depleting hours of cycling at a high percentage of VO2 max interspersed with very intense cycle sprints that were supramaximal, a drink containing 8g of glutamine replenished glycogen to the same extent as a drink containing 61g of carbohydrate.

The problem was that during the recovery period, a constant IV infusion of labeled glucose was given (i.e., a little bit of glucose was given to both groups by IV infusion). While this isn't too big of a deal on its own since the infusion only provided a couple of grams of glucose, the other problem is that during glycogen depleting exercise, a lot of alanine, lactate, and other gluconeogenic precursors are released from the muscle.

What this means is that there's a good amount of glucose that will be formed after such exercise, glucose that will be made in the liver from the gluconeogenic precursors and that will travel to the muscle to replenish glycogen. Therefore, without a placebo group that receives no calories, carbohydrates, or glutamine, we have no idea of knowing whether or not the placebo would have generated the same amount of glycogen replenishment as the glutamine group or the glutamine plus carbohydrate group. To say it another way, perhaps there's a normal glycogen replenishment curve that was unaffected by any of the treatments.

• And finally, with respect to the claims that glutamine might increase cell swelling/volume (something I once believed was a reality), we decided to test this theory out in our lab using multifrequency bioelectric impedance analysis as well as magnetic resonance spectroscopy. The pilot data that's kicking around has demonstrated that glutamine supplementation has no effect on total body water, intracellular fluid volumes, or extracellular fluid volumes (as measured by mBIA) and has no effect on muscle volume (as measured by nMRS)...

...bottom line: l-glutamine isn't stable in the enviroment of our oral tract and GI tract. You think your actually getting any into skeletal muscle from powdered supplementation? If that's the case, I have a bridge to sell you.

Like I said before, peptides may offer a better alternative.

 

[Big'r]

Why do you say that DBBT? Im not saying he is right, but do you know of any facts on this supp to support you. Please follow up with something, as I am very curious about glutamine. It seems like eveybody has a different view on this.

Respect for being openminded.

It's not that you have to believe DBBT or me for what we say. Be critical and ask if we can back up our claims by posting studies proving our points.
I know i can!

take it before and after workout, it's an anticatoblic

Since you have 14.000 + posts i know you can back this up by posting relevant studies done on healthy subjects.
Go ahead..........

Your not going to compare surgical stress (conditions under which people cannot even move a limb any more) to exercise induced physical stress are you?

 

[thelion2005]

I take a lot of supplements, including this one. I do it in the hope my body is not getting "something" through foods and this supplement will provide it. And ... WOW! ... something new and incredibly wonderful happens!

What if we find out some day that our bodies do get all it use through food and we've been wasting our $$? All those supplements been going down the plumbing.

I hope not.

 

[TheAssholeFomerlyKnownAsDBBT]

Research shows that after intensely working out, glutamine levels in the body are reduced by as much as 50%. Since the body relies on glutamine as cellular fuel for the immune system, scientific studies have shown that glutamine supplementation can minimize the breakdown of muscle tissue and improve protein metabolism.

Nuff Said

 

[Big'r]

1. What is it and where does it come from?

The extremely popular amino acid L-Glutamine can be found in protein powders, beans, meats, fish, poultry, dairy products, and of course, L-Glutamine supplements from Bodybuilding.com.

2. What does it do and what scientific studies give evidence to support this?

Glutamine is highly in demand throughout the body. It is used in the gut and immune system extensively to maintain optimal performance.

Performance of what? The gut?

60% of free-form amino acids floating in skeletal muscles is L-glutamine. L-glutamine plays a very important role in protein metabolism, and it appears to be a very important nutrient for body builders.

References?

Results of tracer studies indicate that skeletal muscle contributes to approximately 70% of overall glutamine production in healthy adults; the contribution of de novo synthesis being estimated at approximately 60%. Direct and specific measurements of glutamine in intact muscle protein are 50% lower than assumed previously
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...d&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=10500016&query_hl=1

When supplemented, it may help body builders reduce the amount of muscle deterioration that occurs because other tissues that need glutamine will not rob the glutamine stored in the muscle cells.

Glutamine prevents protein degradation but not more effectively than carbs.
90% of the glutamine you take orally never even makes it to your muscles. Glutamine supplementation decreases it's own synthesis and mostly turns itself into glucose.

Research shows that after intensely working out, glutamine levels in the body are reduced by as much as 50%.

Which can easily be prevented by using carbs or BCAAs (the latter actually DO prevent protein breakdown.)

Since the body relies on glutamine as cellular fuel for the immune system, scientific studies have shown that glutamine supplementation can minimize the breakdown of muscle tissue and improve protein metabolism.

References?

Its effects on replenishing the body after stress or trauma have been shown in Europe where it is commonly given to patients in hospitals.

Is this a hospital board?

Glutamine's cell-volumizing effects have also been shown in several studies. No conclusive studies have been done to evaluate the effects of L-glutamine supplementation on weight-training adults; however, a recent study showed up to a 400% increase in growth-hormone levels when as little as 2 grams of free-form L-glutamine supplement was consumed!

Amino acids elevate GH, fat elevates test., and carbs increase insulin/decrease cortisol. Change of 1 hormone does not automatically mean an increase in protein synthesis. If you have a different opinion on this, i'd like to read you source!

3. Who needs it and what are some symptoms of deficiency?
Bodybuilders can particularly gain from the intake of glutamine. Since bodybuilders use a lot of their glutamine when working out, they are more susceptible to health related problems, as the immune system relies heavily on this amino acid.

Glutamine does not prevent exercise-induced immune impairment. Carbs do. And glutamine does not influence hormonal levels.

Catabolism or muscle break down can occur if the body robs muscles of glutamine for use elsewhere such as nitrogen transport or maintaining the immune system. Glutamine supplementation is certainly important in keeping muscles building--not deteriorating.

Proof? Are you gonna post up studies backing up your claims, or are you gonna share more theories?

4. How much should be taken? Are there any side effects?


Bodybuilders can benefit by taking ten grams of L-glutamine per day, although clinical studies have not determined a precise amount for muscle metabolism optimization.

There are no side effects associated with L-glutamine, because it is a nutrient naturally occurring in the body. Reports of an upset stomach are associated with ingesting a great deal of glutamine, using smaller doses is recommended if this occurs.

META ANALYSIS:

Glutamine is a nonessential amino acid that can be synthesized from glutamate and glutamic acid by gluta-mate-ammonia ligase. Glutamine is an important fuel source for the small intestine. It was proposed that glutamine is necessary for the maintenance of normal intestinal morphology and function in the absence of luminal nutrients. However, intestinal morphologic and functional changes related to enteral fasting and parenteral nutrition are less significant in humans than in animal models and may not be clinically significant. Therefore, it is unclear whether glutamine is necessary for the preservation of normal intestinal morphology and function in humans during parenteral nutrition. It was suggested that both glutamine-supplemented parenteral nutrition and enteral diets may pre-vent bacterial translocation via the preservation and augmenta-tion of small bowel villus morphology, intestinal permeability, and intestinal immune function. However, it is unclear whether clinically relevant bacterial translocation even occurs in humans, much less whether there is any value in the prevention of such occurrences. Results of the therapeutic use of glutamine in humans at nonphysiologic doses indicate limited efficacy. Although glu-tamine is generally recognized to be safe on the basis of rela tively small studies, side effects in patients receiving home parenteral nutrition and in those with liver-function abnormali-ties have been described. Therefore, on the basis of currently available clinical data, it is inappropriate to recommend gluta-mine for therapeutic use in any condition.

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/74/1/25

 

[TheAssholeFomerlyKnownAsDBBT]

Research shows that after intensely working out, glutamine levels in the body are reduced by as much as 50%. Since the body relies on glutamine as cellular fuel for the immune system, scientific studies have shown that glutamine supplementation can minimize the breakdown of muscle tissue and improve protein metabolism.

 

[MikeMartial]

my advise stick to martial arts you don't know about bodybuilding

My "advice" would be to be take a spelling course, and not to tell people what they know or don't know, especially when you don't know who they are.

Nice cut n'paste of your own post.

Don't get me wrong---I'm always open to new studies on glutamine. I would love it if it worked; it'd be the perfect supplement for me. And yes, I've taken it, up to 20/30 grams a day. It's just that's there's zero evidence it works. Supplement companies "claim" it works, because they want to rake in the $$$----that's why someone pitched the burn patient study, saying it was the next big thing. How often have you heard that??

Anecdotal stories? Sure, enough to fill a boat. But no double-blind, placebo controlled studies in healthy athletes.

 

[TheAssholeFomerlyKnownAsDBBT]

mr. meeyagii-
and co.
if youre not reaping the benefits of your supps its prolly cuz you get the cheap stuff. don't blame the fact that youre not a black belt yet on your glutamine dose hows your diet, training, and LITTLE stuff like that...lol