Knee problems from heavy squats

[androjunkie]

Anybody who is on here right now please answer, I'm in fucking pain! I did legs yesterday and I'm starting to push some decent weight on squats but I'm starting to have terrible problems with my knees, they are grinding and popping when I walk. I get this feeling of "squeaky hinges" when I move. It hurts worse than normal because I moved up on weight the other day. What can I do to lessen the pain and suffering, knee raps? I'm not about to stop squatting because I hurt, I'll make my goals if it fuckin kills me. Any advice?

 

[Lee]

go to a doctor. no one here can tell you exactly what is wrong. and when it comes to knees, dont take any chances.

 

[crew9]

Either something has been wrong with your knees for a while and you're just not finding out or you aren't squatting properly and it's doing something to your knees. Anyway you can video tape yourself squatting?

 

[androjunkie]

Either something has been wrong with your knees for a while and you're just not finding out or you aren't squatting properly and it's doing something to your knees. Anyway you can video tape yourself squatting?

I don't know anybody with a digital camera, but I'll try to find one.

 

[wnt2bBeast]

very likely a form issue..try a wider stance

 

[Johnnny]

I would go to a specialist & ask for a CAT Scan.

You could've damaged your knee's.

After 7yrs of playing the TB position in football & 2yrs of grappling I stopped doing squats b/c I want to be able to walk when I'm 50yrs old.

There is this 50yr old bald dude at my gym who's cool, who had been doing pro wrestling for years as he started out with olympic style wrestling.

He had torn both knee's sooooo many times that required many, many Authoscopic surgeries in both knees that it was just bone rubbing on bone in both knees so he had to have both knees replaced.

Just a word of warning.



plus your squatting form may be improper. You should be going parallel to the floor while keeping your back straight.

But I don't do squats anymore I do a lot of one leg leg presses & extensions.

 

[wnt2bBeast]

I would go to a specialist & ask for a CAT Scan.

You could've damaged your knee's.

After 7yrs of playing the TB position in football & 2yrs of grappling I stopped doing squats b/c I want to be able to walk when I'm 50yrs old.

There is this 50yr old bald dude at my gym who's cool, who had been doing pro wrestling for years as he started out with olympic style wrestling.

He had torn both knee's sooooo many times that required many, many Authoscopic surgeries in both knees that it was just bone rubbing on bone in both knees so he had to have both knees replaced.

Just a word of warning.



plus your squatting form may be improper. You should be going parallel to the floor while keeping your back straight.

But I don't do squats anymore I do a lot of one leg leg presses & extensions.

improper form can cause serious injuries..
leg extensions have MORE shearing force on the knees than a properly excuted squat..so lets not kid ourselves here and think squats are going to kill you..they may if you do them wrong..im not saying andro should continue i agree he should get checked out as well as make sure he is doing them properly..

 

[Madcow2]

I have had knee issues over the years. Believe it or not, squats actually help (and I'm not alone in this by any means). Full range, good form squats strengthen the muscles around the knee and provide it better stability. You are less likely to injure yourself in the gym and athletics. Good form is a huge assumption however - stopping short of parallel places a lot of stress on the knees (and many don't realize that parallel is top of the thighs). In all honesty, for anyone besides a powerlifter the carryover to athletics is stronger using the full range of the body. And yeah - leg extensions are not some super benign alternative.

All that said - Andro needs to get this checked out. Do you squat often? Is this an isolated occurence? Does it happen every time? You said this was both knees?

It sounds like this is a problem that's been developing over time and it's bad enough now for you to post (making a big assumption here). If so, you should see an orthopedist - preferably one involved with or very familiar with sports/athletes so you don't waste your time with some shmoe. If you could also get someone to video you using a digicam or even one of those phone camera and upload it somehow that would be great. I'd like to see a shot from the side and one from in front.

 

[Johnnny]

Well I feel comfortable with what I'm doing now for quads.

Including leg extensions b/c I use high repetitions with the weight that I use so I don't strain the knee's by using only 5 reps.

But one legged leg presses are also very good & provide a full stretch of the quad.

But yes I agree the more parallel you are, the better you are working your quads.

If you want to continue squats make sure your form is proper.

I at this point feel safer with what I'm doing now & I still develop strong & large legs.

 

[AirWolf]

I have had knee issues over the years. Believe it or not, squats actually help (and I'm not alone in this by any means).

I agree w/ Madcow on this...my right knee has slightly torn cartilage and I sprained my MCL in November...I started doing squats a few weeks after the injury and I think they sped the recovery process...plus the cartilage doesn't ache all the time anymore- they almost feel more lubed up.

I think the key was that I spent weeks with low weight getting the ROM and strenthening the tendons. Most of my sets were 40-50% of my 5-rep max and 15 reps, although a few times I turned it into a marathon and did a set of 200 using rest/pauses.

 

[H_T_]

squats are the only quad exercise i do, i've never had knee problems..............do you sit back when you squat? or do you break at the knee first? make sure your knees don't push past your toes. like Wnt2bbeast said go wider, it'll take stress off the knees.

 

[anthrax]

Squat is good for the knees

Leg press and leg extensions are not

 

[androjunkie]

I'm actually going to take everybodys advice on this one. I'm going to see a doc about it, but in the immediate future I'm going to use a wider stance. I thought I was already going wide but possible not wide enough. I always keep my feet and legs pointed at a slight angle so that as I progress through the lift my legs bend naturally. Am I supposed to keep them pointed straight? That just doesn't feel right to me. I don't suppose somebody wants to post up a vid of the type of wide stance suggested?

 

[LB44]

Either something has been wrong with your knees for a while and you're just not finding out or you aren't squatting properly and it's doing something to your knees. Anyway you can video tape yourself squatting?

Most people dont realize that (performed properly) squating is a 100% natural movment. It SHOULD cause no pain. Baring any past injuries ,even ones you think are insignificant or dont know about, you should not be experiencing any pain. If you have any trainers at your gym and they look like they arent doing anything ask em if they have 5 min to chack out your form. I have never minded when some one at my gym has asked me.

 

[quadkilla31]

I've had both of my knees reconstructed over the years. I've torn my acl in one knee and my cartilage, acl, mcl in the other. My knees make all kind of noises when i squat, but i know i have bad knees and i deal with and i really watch my form when squatting. You should go to doc and find out what's up with your knees. You might of hurt something. Best of luck to you.

 

[ghettostudmuffin]

How tall are you androjunkie?

You look like you're 6' or taller in your pic.

Your stance depends on your height and build.

Going wider IS NOT necessarily always the answer.

It depends on your squat. How deep do you go? Do you stop above, at or below parallel?

If you are as tall as you are doing full squats may not be good based on your leverages. Going too wide and going deep can tweak your knees.

I'm 5'8 1/2" and I squat with my heels about 2-3" wider than my shoulders and my feet pointed out about 30 degrees. I would say I squat a wide athletic style with a PL style low bar placement.

Your stance just depends. I would grab a broomstick and practice perfect squat technique in front of a full length mirror and study your technique. Fine-tune you heel width, how far out you abgle your feet, how deep you go until you find that sweet spot.

Just my opinion bro.

 

[androjunkie]

How tall are you androjunkie?

You look like you're 6' or taller in your pic.

Your stance depends on your height and build.

Going wider IS NOT necessarily always the answer.

It depends on your squat. How deep do you go? Do you stop above, at or below parallel?

If you are as tall as you are doing full squats may not be good based on your leverages. Going too wide and going deep can tweak your knees.

I'm 5'8 1/2" and I squat with my heels about 2-3" wider than my shoulders and my feet pointed out about 30 degrees. I would say I squat a wide athletic style with a PL style low bar placement.

Your stance just depends. I would grab a broomstick and practice perfect squat technique in front of a full length mirror and study your technique. Fine-tune you heel width, how far out you abgle your feet, how deep you go until you find that sweet spot.

Just my opinion bro.

That is/was my best friend/training partner. He died from a massive heartattack a little over a year ago. Good call though, he was 6' tall, and so am I. I really need somebody to evaluate my form. I've trained alone ever since he died, so I don't have anybody to tell me when I'm fuckin up on form anymore.

 

[wnt2bBeast]

How tall are you androjunkie?

You look like you're 6' or taller in your pic.

Your stance depends on your height and build.

Going wider IS NOT necessarily always the answer.

It depends on your squat. How deep do you go? Do you stop above, at or below parallel?

If you are as tall as you are doing full squats may not be good based on your leverages. Going too wide and going deep can tweak your knees.

I'm 5'8 1/2" and I squat with my heels about 2-3" wider than my shoulders and my feet pointed out about 30 degrees. I would say I squat a wide athletic style with a PL style low bar placement.

Your stance just depends. I would grab a broomstick and practice perfect squat technique in front of a full length mirror and study your technique. Fine-tune you heel width, how far out you abgle your feet, how deep you go until you find that sweet spot.

Just my opinion bro.

going wider uses more hips glutes thus takes pressure off the knees..EVERYONE should be breaking parallel..not everyone need to do close stance full oly squats..theres a saying on another board i got to "friends dont let friends squat HIGH"..in many cases taking a wider stance will be beneficial..lemme find a pic

 

[wnt2bBeast]

heres a wide stance
http://www.t-nation.com/img/photos/266squat.jpg

 

[ghettostudmuffin]

I don't really consider 2-3" outside of shoulders close stance, but compared to that pic which I have seen many times, it is.

I just happen to go go full now because breaking parallel and full for me are practically one and the same based on my height and structure. Haven't lost any strength except the first time I squatted below parallel. 2 workouts later and I'm as strong or stronger than when I was stopping at dead parallel.

Guess it depends on the person. There are several Pl'ers at my gym that have checked my form and say it's pretty good. But none of them squats real wide like in that pic. We all pretty much go all the way down and you a moderately wide or somewhat close stance, but still not olympic style.

 

[supreme]

Not to re-hash some good info posted already; some tips on squatting:

1) you can't squat in pain ! pain is inhibitory to muscle contractions. you will develop compensatory movement patterns and initiate other orthopedic problems - get to the doctor & maybe a PT (if either say just don't squat or that squatting is dangerous, leave immediately! they are idiots!)

2) Leg extensions increase knee shear - do not do them if you have knee pain/problems. For most people they are a useless injury proving open chain exericse. If your life/job dosen't require open chain knee extension DO NOT DO THEM!

3) leg presses & leg extensions CAN NEVER EVER replace squats!! Squats are a primal movement pattern that we must do daily! I.E. sitting in a chair, at a desk, driving a car and taking a shit alll require full, 3 dimensonal squatting !!! Does someone help you on or off the toilet?? If you completely eliminate squats they will eventually have to!

4) squat flat footed, no plates or blocks! - it increases load on the knees and changes the path of the bar.

5) you must break parrallel when squatting, stoppng at 90 degrees leaves you open to masive knee injury for no muscles are supporting your knees, just the ligaments - that's why the orthopedist has you sit on a table and bend your knee and pulls on the tibia (Lachtman's test) to see the integrity of the ligaments.

6) squatting above 90 degrees over develops the quads in relation to the hams & glutes, thus creating muscle imbalance and further problems - also people look like assholes when they load up the bar and barely move it while screaming their head off!

7) GO BACK & READ #1!!!!


Good luck & keep squatting!!

S

 

[bignate73]

ah, i feel redeemed! i hit some nice ATF sets today and got some rather strange looks.