Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below
javaguru
- Thread starter Enock
- Start date
THeMaCHinE
New member
JavaGuru said:
Would you mind shooting me that e-mail as well?
javaguru
Banned
As of day seven I'm up 4.5lbs with no increase in BF. My muscles are hard as a rock due to increased glycogen storage. Likewise, my strength is up and my training endurance/pumps are through the roof. I've been ravenously hungry but have only slightly increased calories bcause I want to drop some BF. Speaking from ten years of experience with various "compounds" there is no placebo effect. My original plan was to run two weeks as an experiment but I may stretch it out if the results continue.
javaguru
Banned
Mikeraz,
I would like to make a couple points,
1. I'm not a newbie, 5'10" 245lbs at 11% BF with twelve years weight training. I have experience with various test esters, primo, equipoise, and TA.
2. I said no "placebo effect", which is when someone takes something with no real efficacy and makes gains anyway. A placebo is something given to a control group, with no effect, in a controlled study. Notice the difference? If one actually wanted to do a controlled study the placebo could be a sterile oil. I KNOW what it feels like to be "on" vs what happens when someone takes HMB and gains five pounds because they believe it "feels like deca".
3. You've been discredited and flamed by every expert on this board.
4. Your "hero" Animal raves about injectable 4-ad suspension on his board and has said he prefers it to TNE. The overwhelming responses from people on his board have been very positive, do a search.
5. Please stop posting your misinformation as some newbie may mistake you for someone that knows what they are talking about.
I would like to make a couple points,
1. I'm not a newbie, 5'10" 245lbs at 11% BF with twelve years weight training. I have experience with various test esters, primo, equipoise, and TA.
2. I said no "placebo effect", which is when someone takes something with no real efficacy and makes gains anyway. A placebo is something given to a control group, with no effect, in a controlled study. Notice the difference? If one actually wanted to do a controlled study the placebo could be a sterile oil. I KNOW what it feels like to be "on" vs what happens when someone takes HMB and gains five pounds because they believe it "feels like deca".
3. You've been discredited and flamed by every expert on this board.
4. Your "hero" Animal raves about injectable 4-ad suspension on his board and has said he prefers it to TNE. The overwhelming responses from people on his board have been very positive, do a search.
5. Please stop posting your misinformation as some newbie may mistake you for someone that knows what they are talking about.
javaguru i bet someone liek pa or par paid you to say that. And since 4ad is so great how come the pro' dont use it? hell if you were on test you would be up 10 lbs right now hell even winny or primio woudl give you better mass. i call bullshit im sure you got some vested interest
just want to add the reason why your gainign anythign is because you obviously respond well to a low dose of test the conversion by product.
just want to add the reason why your gainign anythign is because you obviously respond well to a low dose of test the conversion by product.
Last edited:
javaguru
Banned
1. Why would par or pa pay me to talk about an injectable 4-ad, something they have no financial interest in promoting. The 4-ad I got was made in China, maybe it's a Chinese conspiracy?
2. I make more money in my current profession than I ever would peddling supplements or "kits". I share my results and experience to help others.
3. My last cycle was 500mg test/wk and 75mg TA ED. I gained ten pounds in two weeks. Have you ever used primo? You would be lucky to be up five pounds in a month on it. Did you know that 4-ad is 95% as anabolic as testosterone?
4. Post that comment about four grams of test and looking like Chris Cormier on the anabolic board and see how many times you get flamed. I know you got flamed at least a dozen times for the three gram comment and looking like a pro.
2. I make more money in my current profession than I ever would peddling supplements or "kits". I share my results and experience to help others.
3. My last cycle was 500mg test/wk and 75mg TA ED. I gained ten pounds in two weeks. Have you ever used primo? You would be lucky to be up five pounds in a month on it. Did you know that 4-ad is 95% as anabolic as testosterone?
4. Post that comment about four grams of test and looking like Chris Cormier on the anabolic board and see how many times you get flamed. I know you got flamed at least a dozen times for the three gram comment and looking like a pro.
javaguru
Banned
1. The 95% for 4-ad comes from the scientific literature. From rat levator studies conducted by scientists not connected with any supplement company.
2. Read my post again, 500mg of test per week plus 75mg TA ED. For the mathematically challenged that's 1,025mg of steroids per week, hardly a low dose.
3. Well, I've heard guys say it took them 3-4 weeks to gain ten pounds on a gram of test per week. I'm also sure it's possible to gain ten pounds on test in a week but it's mostly bloat and glycogen storage. I've done a gram of test per week without anti-estrogens and had no bloat or estrogen side effects, I generally only lose 2-4 pounds max after a test cycle. A newbie will gain more than an experienced user past their genetic potential. Comparing what a newbie or test side effect sensitive user will gain compared to me is comparing apples and oranges.
4. How did I bash Animal? He has said that he prefers his 4-ad suspension to TNE and raves about it. If you're refering to my comment about kits in general then that wasn't a bash against Animal or any kit maker. Some people need someone to walk them through the procedure and they provide a valuable service for these people. However, I think fina kits are a waste of money for anyone with a basic understanding of chemistry/ chemistry procedures. I can PM you if you would like a cheap and effective way to convert your fina. For the record, I've never used a kit.
2. Read my post again, 500mg of test per week plus 75mg TA ED. For the mathematically challenged that's 1,025mg of steroids per week, hardly a low dose.
3. Well, I've heard guys say it took them 3-4 weeks to gain ten pounds on a gram of test per week. I'm also sure it's possible to gain ten pounds on test in a week but it's mostly bloat and glycogen storage. I've done a gram of test per week without anti-estrogens and had no bloat or estrogen side effects, I generally only lose 2-4 pounds max after a test cycle. A newbie will gain more than an experienced user past their genetic potential. Comparing what a newbie or test side effect sensitive user will gain compared to me is comparing apples and oranges.
4. How did I bash Animal? He has said that he prefers his 4-ad suspension to TNE and raves about it. If you're refering to my comment about kits in general then that wasn't a bash against Animal or any kit maker. Some people need someone to walk them through the procedure and they provide a valuable service for these people. However, I think fina kits are a waste of money for anyone with a basic understanding of chemistry/ chemistry procedures. I can PM you if you would like a cheap and effective way to convert your fina. For the record, I've never used a kit.
javaguru
Banned
I'm certain that most of my gains from the 4-ad-ec in the first week were from increased glycogen storage, just like my test and tren cycle. That's why I'm running the experiment for at least two weeks to compare what I've gained with what I keep. I think the 4-ad-ec "feels" like testosterone. I have improved sense of well being, increased sex drive, slightly increased strength, slight insomnia and of course rock hard muscles and great pumps. This is exactly how I feel on test. I really don't know hwo it will work out in terms of muscle gain at the end of two weeks vs test but that's the whole point of making myself a guinea pig. Within a week of cessation I would expect all of the gains from increased glycogen to be gone. I gained a total of twelve pounds in two weeks and kept eight off the test/tren (a very popular mass combo) and if I keep 4-5 off the 700mg/week of 4-ad-ec I will consider it a resounding success.
javaguru
Banned
My diet isn't much different than normal, I've increased my calories slightly(~500) mostly from carbs. Here is a sample ,
Meal 1: Protein shake( milk isolate) + mixed berries (45 g P, 45 g C,~3-4 g F)
Meal 2: Protein Shake 10 fish oil caps(30g P, 15 G F)
meal 3: Tuna and three slices natural 100% whole wheat bread (43g P, 52g C, 10g F)
Meal 4: Protein Shake and 10 fish oil caps (30g P, 15 g F)
Meal 5: Tuna and Pasta (52g P, 150g C, 12g F)
WORKOUT
Meal 6: Post workout shake (33g P, 80g C, 2g F)
Meal 7: 1 hour post workout, Shake and Bran Cereal (45g P 48g C 5g F)
Meal 8: Tuna + five fish oil capsules (33g P, 10g F)
This is not a bulking diet, when bulking I would add an extra 100-200 g of carbs.
Meal 1: Protein shake( milk isolate) + mixed berries (45 g P, 45 g C,~3-4 g F)
Meal 2: Protein Shake 10 fish oil caps(30g P, 15 G F)
meal 3: Tuna and three slices natural 100% whole wheat bread (43g P, 52g C, 10g F)
Meal 4: Protein Shake and 10 fish oil caps (30g P, 15 g F)
Meal 5: Tuna and Pasta (52g P, 150g C, 12g F)
WORKOUT
Meal 6: Post workout shake (33g P, 80g C, 2g F)
Meal 7: 1 hour post workout, Shake and Bran Cereal (45g P 48g C 5g F)
Meal 8: Tuna + five fish oil capsules (33g P, 10g F)
This is not a bulking diet, when bulking I would add an extra 100-200 g of carbs.
Nutri-Wrestler
New member
winny is a good multipurpose drug. however, it is mostly used for cutting.
why do you say PH's are a bunch of shit? have you tried them? also, how could you suggest a newbie (to juice) to 4 garms of test?! some pros dont even do 4 grams. not only is this insane, but also a waste of money. for a newbie, 500mg of test a week would be suffiecient and would produce tremendous gains! test at ver 2 grams is a waste since almost all AR receptors would be satuarted. also, higher dosages of test doesnt mean you will get a helluva lot more gains. if you do 2g a weeks doesnt mean you would double your gains compared to 1g a week.
and by the way, 4AD is good, so is 1AD, Boldione, and 3-alpha.
Ross
why do you say PH's are a bunch of shit? have you tried them? also, how could you suggest a newbie (to juice) to 4 garms of test?! some pros dont even do 4 grams. not only is this insane, but also a waste of money. for a newbie, 500mg of test a week would be suffiecient and would produce tremendous gains! test at ver 2 grams is a waste since almost all AR receptors would be satuarted. also, higher dosages of test doesnt mean you will get a helluva lot more gains. if you do 2g a weeks doesnt mean you would double your gains compared to 1g a week.
and by the way, 4AD is good, so is 1AD, Boldione, and 3-alpha.
Ross
javaguru
Banned
Enock,
Yep, I'm doing 4-ad-ec alone at 100mg/day. There is no noticeable water retention. However, I can do high dose test and have no problems with water retention so it may be different for you. On a side note, every transdermal I have used HAS given me mild water retention(androsol, androspray and one+).
Yep, I'm doing 4-ad-ec alone at 100mg/day. There is no noticeable water retention. However, I can do high dose test and have no problems with water retention so it may be different for you. On a side note, every transdermal I have used HAS given me mild water retention(androsol, androspray and one+).
listen i dont care this 4ad wont work its not a steroid period you wont make any gains. no pro's use 4ad they use real steroids that produce mass gains such as deca,winstrol,primo etc. 4ad has no anabolic activity even PA says so. the gains you experiance are all glycogen period no ifs and or butts. You wont get big on 4ad its garbage.
Nutri-Wrestler
New member
so to gain i have to use steroids? hmmmmm.
Mikeratz listen to people who've been injecting 4ad. Javaguru is not the only one doing it they are all experiencing similar results. Also most of the people doing injections have also done the real deal as well they know what they are comparing it too.
I myself often run tren. yet here I am looking into 4ad why is that?
because PH's are actually decent nowa days and dirt cheap when bought in bulk powder form. Its not a question of whether 4ad is better than straight test we know its not. Its a cost effect ratio. If I get 50% of the effects of test at 25% the cost well then I'm a happy camper.
I myself often run tren. yet here I am looking into 4ad why is that?
because PH's are actually decent nowa days and dirt cheap when bought in bulk powder form. Its not a question of whether 4ad is better than straight test we know its not. Its a cost effect ratio. If I get 50% of the effects of test at 25% the cost well then I'm a happy camper.
Enock said:
Just to add to that most steroid users yes do gain in the 15-25 range in bodymass but your forgetting something they normally stack 3 diffrent compounds. go to the anabolic board look at the average cycle which is mostly test/deca.dbol or test/tren dbol etc . there takign 3 diffrent steroids thats why there gainign 20+, sounds to me like 4ad is performing like anabolic steroid
javaguru
Banned
ster·oid (stîroid, str-)
n.
Any of numerous naturally occurring or synthetic fat-soluble organic compounds having as a basis 17 carbon atoms arranged in four rings and including the sterols and bile acids, adrenal and sex hormones, certain natural drugs such as digitalis compounds, and the precursors of certain vitamins.
1. 4-ad IS a steroid and a pro-hormone. Likewise, testosterone is also a pro-hormone since it converts to DHT.
2. I was up 4.5 lbs in seven days on the 4-ad-ec. I was up 5 lbs in the first week on my last test/tren cycle. Don't presume to know how MY body responds.
3. Do a search for injectable 4-ad on animals board or the fina board. I'm the only person on any of these three boards that have done an ester, the others have done no ester solutions(which suck) or suspensions.
n.
Any of numerous naturally occurring or synthetic fat-soluble organic compounds having as a basis 17 carbon atoms arranged in four rings and including the sterols and bile acids, adrenal and sex hormones, certain natural drugs such as digitalis compounds, and the precursors of certain vitamins.
1. 4-ad IS a steroid and a pro-hormone. Likewise, testosterone is also a pro-hormone since it converts to DHT.
2. I was up 4.5 lbs in seven days on the 4-ad-ec. I was up 5 lbs in the first week on my last test/tren cycle. Don't presume to know how MY body responds.
3. Do a search for injectable 4-ad on animals board or the fina board. I'm the only person on any of these three boards that have done an ester, the others have done no ester solutions(which suck) or suspensions.
So why do no ester solutions suck yet water suspensions are good??? people get great results off of test no ester in oil so they would also on 4ad in your logic? animals board i never read anyoen claim weight gain only increased strength , what type of ester ya goto n there prop?
javaguru
Banned
sus·pen·sion (s-spnshn)
n.
Chemistry. A system in which microscopically visible particles are dispersed throughout a less dense liquid or gas from which they are easily filtered but not easily settled because of system viscocity or molecular interactions.
solution
So*lu"tion\ (s[-o]*l[=u]"sh[u^]n), n.
(Chem.Phys.) The act or process by which a body (whether solid, liquid, or gaseous) is absorbed into a liquid, and, remaining or becoming fluid, is diffused throughout the solvent; also, the product reulting from such absorption.
A suspension isn't that good either(IMO) but much better than a solution of 4-ad no ester in oil. With a suspension you get an initial spike, a steady short term release and then a very dramatic drop off. This is due to the human body breaking down the crystals and the process accelerates rapidly after a certain point is reached. Also, water suspensions are notorious for causing injection pain. A 4-ad no ester solution sucks because the half life is only being extended by the oil( the crystals are dissolved in the oil). With an ester solution you get a steady release of the drug which gives more stable blood levels with appropriate dosing. Concentrations can also be higher due to increased solubility from the ester.
I'm using the ethylcarbonate ester. BTW, Animal prefers his 4-ad suspension to testosterone no ester.
n.
Chemistry. A system in which microscopically visible particles are dispersed throughout a less dense liquid or gas from which they are easily filtered but not easily settled because of system viscocity or molecular interactions.
solution
So*lu"tion\ (s[-o]*l[=u]"sh[u^]n), n.
(Chem.Phys.) The act or process by which a body (whether solid, liquid, or gaseous) is absorbed into a liquid, and, remaining or becoming fluid, is diffused throughout the solvent; also, the product reulting from such absorption.
A suspension isn't that good either(IMO) but much better than a solution of 4-ad no ester in oil. With a suspension you get an initial spike, a steady short term release and then a very dramatic drop off. This is due to the human body breaking down the crystals and the process accelerates rapidly after a certain point is reached. Also, water suspensions are notorious for causing injection pain. A 4-ad no ester solution sucks because the half life is only being extended by the oil( the crystals are dissolved in the oil). With an ester solution you get a steady release of the drug which gives more stable blood levels with appropriate dosing. Concentrations can also be higher due to increased solubility from the ester.
I'm using the ethylcarbonate ester. BTW, Animal prefers his 4-ad suspension to testosterone no ester.
MIKERAZ said:
Who gives a fuck what Animal says?...he can't even spell "pharmacokinetics".
Ask the dumbfuck to show us the research that shows that testosterone dissolved in oil has the same pharmacokinetics as testosterone propionate. He uses the concept of "feel" to make his retarded statements.
Nutri-Wrestler
New member
if u wanna look like an '80's body builder, then juice like one. some people just do not wanna juice, they would rather use a PH instead. you may think 4ad is crap, but everyone else (or most people) are getting good results off it.
Ross
Ross
javaguru
Banned
Even though I've increased my calories by roughly 400-500 per day I'm leaner even though I've dropped the amount of cardio I do in half. The reduction in cardio wasn't intentional, it's just what I give up when I have pressing personal/job responsibilities. I can't wait to have my BF checked this Saturday.
MIKERAZ said:
wouldnt increased glycogen eventually result in more muscle? increasing the weight you can lift, should eventually result in more muscle. for example, dont eat any carbs, see how much muscle your going to create after a few months. zilch probably. increasing glycogen stores in your muscles should allow you to lift longer, and harder, creating muscle.
michaelt said:
listen i completly understand where your coming from bro it would be incredible if this 4ad worked as good as real steroids but sad truth is it dont . this time on javas tren/test cycle he was gaining real muscle now . listen if you abuse stuff liek test tren your going to look like a pro bodybuilder you can abuse 4ad-ec all you want you wont even look like a women pro im sorry the sad truth. winny,primo even beat this crap
javaguru
Banned
My last test/tren cycle I was up a total of eight pounds a week post cycle. I was bulking so I didn't track body fat but there was no noticeable increase and my calorie intake was +1,500. That's what I love about tren, you can bulk on high calories and as long as they are "clean" I don't gain any noticeable body fat.
Puffy posted this thread over at animals board here his response
Too funny!
That cocksucker is one bitter little bitch isn't he! At least he adds information and insightful info wherever he goes.
You might wanna check your chemistry because a u100 kit and the sep kits create a SOLUTION! Damn, the body rapidly dissolves crystals. Well fuck me cause I guess those goddamn test suspensions don't hurt for a friggin week. I've been imagining things! Good thing they cleared that up.
At least the one guy is really important because, 'he makes more than anyone ever could sellin kits!' That sure is a qualifier in how good a steroid works, isn't it? I sure hope I can move up to that double wide trailer like he has, one day. Nevertheless, I'll do what my lawyer tells me and keep my mouth shut on how, 'important' or 'insignificant' my finances are as you all know that how much you make makes you the smartest, right!
I'm THE BOSS and I don't have to bend over for the man! Even if I only made a dollar, I need not say more than that!
Too funny!
That cocksucker is one bitter little bitch isn't he! At least he adds information and insightful info wherever he goes.
You might wanna check your chemistry because a u100 kit and the sep kits create a SOLUTION! Damn, the body rapidly dissolves crystals. Well fuck me cause I guess those goddamn test suspensions don't hurt for a friggin week. I've been imagining things! Good thing they cleared that up.
At least the one guy is really important because, 'he makes more than anyone ever could sellin kits!' That sure is a qualifier in how good a steroid works, isn't it? I sure hope I can move up to that double wide trailer like he has, one day. Nevertheless, I'll do what my lawyer tells me and keep my mouth shut on how, 'important' or 'insignificant' my finances are as you all know that how much you make makes you the smartest, right!
I'm THE BOSS and I don't have to bend over for the man! Even if I only made a dollar, I need not say more than that!
Well i finally found proof to knock javaguru's post. Look at his posts before he started inj 4ad he stated his stats at 245 11 percent bodyfat. then look at his post 4ad stats 245 11 percent the exact same STATS! if his acounts were true he'd be 251 10 percent bodyfat after the 4ad. Sorry to out ya bro but its hard to get things past me.
distanced
New member
MIKE,
you've never juiced, you've never tried inj 1-ad, your probably a fat couch potato. point is, no one cares what you say. I've done 3 NPC shows, tried juice, done all the prohormones on the market and really like the way I look.
You only speak your opinion and that which you've read of other people, but still get it wrong. You've officially ruined your reputation here and made yourself look like a highschool student with your two sentence posts in response to three paragraph posts. enough said
you've never juiced, you've never tried inj 1-ad, your probably a fat couch potato. point is, no one cares what you say. I've done 3 NPC shows, tried juice, done all the prohormones on the market and really like the way I look.
You only speak your opinion and that which you've read of other people, but still get it wrong. You've officially ruined your reputation here and made yourself look like a highschool student with your two sentence posts in response to three paragraph posts. enough said
i agree with distanced. i was going to comment on how dumbs MIKERAZ's last post was, but i decided not to. But now i changed my mind. Your Post was dumb, I cant imagine what makes you qualified to say that the pro look is easy to get. Nor can i imagine what makes you qualified to preach about prohormones. it sounds like to me, you bough a shitload of first generation prohormones, didnt know what you were doing when you took them, your diet sucked, and now your mad because you wasted all your money.
Get a clue, and shutup already.
Get a clue, and shutup already.
bump that he has done nothing to help or contribute while javaguru has posted a ton of info about his short cycle his gains his diet
again no one has ever said 4ad is better than any steriod people are just telling there results while on it..
most of your comments throughout this whole thread were either useless or based on false information...
do you have a point to your ramblings or are you some angel trying to protect people from the horrors of 4ad
again no one has ever said 4ad is better than any steriod people are just telling there results while on it..
most of your comments throughout this whole thread were either useless or based on false information...
do you have a point to your ramblings or are you some angel trying to protect people from the horrors of 4ad
I'll comment on my 4ad experience here.
first, its really hard to not cripple yourself if you don't buy it froma clean source. Bac product is hard to make a safe injectable from I'll tell you that.
I couldnt give you any evidence supporting it anabolic nature because I've always stacked it with tren. However, I will continue to try and use it safely everytime I run tren why?
Libido libido libido.
Proviron didnt help
tesp prop did
4ad did.
All i wanted from the prop was the libido and 4ad does it much cheaper. Already injecting frequently.. So I save some money and just use 4ad.
Point being even if you don't believe in 4AD anabolic value its a really cheap legal way to fix the tren libido. Cheaper than syno even
first, its really hard to not cripple yourself if you don't buy it froma clean source. Bac product is hard to make a safe injectable from I'll tell you that.
I couldnt give you any evidence supporting it anabolic nature because I've always stacked it with tren. However, I will continue to try and use it safely everytime I run tren why?
Libido libido libido.
Proviron didnt help
tesp prop did
4ad did.
All i wanted from the prop was the libido and 4ad does it much cheaper. Already injecting frequently.. So I save some money and just use 4ad.
Point being even if you don't believe in 4AD anabolic value its a really cheap legal way to fix the tren libido. Cheaper than syno even
Similar threads
