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Is this self defense or murder?

blueta2

New member
A montreal man is on trial for murdering a Montreal police officer.
Last March, 2007, Montreal police made a middle of the night suprise attack on a suspected drug dealers house. The cops rushed into this guys house where this man, his wife and 2 kids slept.

The man who thought he was being robbed got his gun and shot at the cop who came busting into the room shooting. Suspected drug dealer kills cop.

He's on trial and the jury is out as of last weekend. They can either convict of 1st degree murder, 2nd degree or aquit under the self defense law.

If this guy is convicted of murder, I know the justice system is seriously faulty!


Discuss...........

http://www.nationalpost.com/scripts/story.html?id=562799


http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNe...10/parasiris_trial_080610/20080610?hub=Canada
 
I think that it is self-defense. But it depends on the whole story though. Is that the assumption of the cops. Did he surrender once he realized they were cops. All that plays into affect. Im sorry if it says that in the story, I don't have time to read it. I don't even have time to be on here.
 
Based strictly on what you posted, I say self-defense. It sounds as if the whole situation could have transpired in a few seconds, which may not have been long enough for the "intruders" to identify themselves as police to the guy. That said, the cops on TV are pretty good about announcing their presence before they go in with guns blazing. Maybe things in real life don't go as smoothly. Perhaps one of our many ex cons can comment? ;)
 
balboa29 said:
I think that it is self-defense. But it depends on the whole story though. Is that the assumption of the cops. Did he surrender once he realized they were cops. All that plays into affect. Im sorry if it says that in the story, I don't have time to read it. I don't even have time to be on here.
Oh yeah, when he surrendered, the guy passed out when he realized what he did. He was on every news station apologizing to this cops family.
 
velvett said:
Self defense, though, a lot would depend on what the gun laws are in the area.
we have really tough gun laws up here. SO few people actually own guns. But his guns were registered and legal.
 
blueta2 said:
Oh yeah, when he surrendered, the guy passed out when he realized what he did. He was on every news station apologizing to this cops family.

In that case, definitely self-defense.
 
So, they never found any coke in his house?

If they found coke, I say hang him. IF he's dealing coke outta his house WITH his kids in there; he really has no rights and should be kicked in the head for doing that shit around his kids and putting them in harms way.

IF he is ONLY suspected of dealing coke and they found none, he had every right to protect his family IMHO.
 
I say self defense, but the cops are all screaming he should be convicted of murder.
I can't even believe this went to trial
 
It seems like self defense.. but this is just such a strange case. Especially because it involves the death of a police officer.

So... this may sound crazy... But was he selling drugs? did they even find out? that could make all the difference if he was.
 
Warrant was violation of Parasiris's rights
Jurors never heard police were after drugs: evidence seized from home was thrown out
Paul Cherry, Gazette crime reporter
Published: Tuesday, June 10

LAVAL - As the six women and six men of the jury in the first-degree murder trial of Basil Parasiris enter their second day of deliberations today, one nagging question must be on most of their minds: Why did Laval police Constable Daniel Tessier and eight of his colleagues storm into Parasiris's home in Brossard on March 2, 2007?

Parasiris killed Tessier during a shootout with police because, the defendant says, he believed it was a home invasion.

The jurors have never been told why the police were there.

In a decision rendered before the jury began hearing evidence, Superior Court Judge Guy Cournoyer ruled the warrant that allowed Laval police to smash down the front door of Parasiris's house on Rimouski Cres. and conduct an aggressive predawn drug raid inside his home was a violation of his rights.

That meant any evidence the police seized inside his home that might have linked him to a small drug trafficking ring that operated in Laval was tossed out.

The warrant, authorized by Gaby Dumas, a justice of the peace, gave Laval police the green light to use a dynamic entry - meant to surprise the person being investigated - to carry out their search for evidence.

Such warrants are supposed to be granted only under extraordinary circumstances, when investigators suspect a person is keeping a large quantity of drugs and might flush away evidence if police come calling with a standard "knock and notice" search warrant.

Cournoyer ruled the warrant used to enter Parasiris's home on the South Shore was abusive and violated his Canadian Charter right to "be secure against unreasonable search or seizure."

Laval police never did find a large quantity of cocaine inside Parasiris's home.

What they did find were 13 cellphones, four pagers and eight pages of documents that a Sûreté du Québec investigator described during Parasiris's bail hearing in May 2007 as resembling the accounts of a drug trafficker. During the same bail hearing, the investigator said that while Parasiris was being interrogated he admitted to having been involved in drug trafficking for three years to solve financial problems.

The jury never got to hear about that side of Parasiris, because Laval police clearly made mistakes when applying for their warrant.

Because of Cournoyer's decision, police officers who testified in the murder trial had to be cautioned against using terms like "drug raid" or "dynamic entry," or even identifying themselves as being part of the Laval police morality-drug squad.

Using the warrant, Tessier and eight other officers were allowed to smash in Parasiris's door with a battering ram and storm in with their weapons drawn while shouting, "Police!"

It also meant they could conduct the raid early in the morning instead of during daylight hours, when standard search warrants are supposed to be executed.

The reasons why Laval police wanted to go into Parasiris's home with such force remain unclear.

Near the end of March 2006, François Leblanc, a member of the Laval police morality-drug squad, was assigned to investigate a tip from Montreal police. An informant had told Montreal investigators that three people were selling cocaine and were using Bar Le Skratch in Laval as a meeting point.

The same informant referred to one of the drug dealers as Mani; he turned out to be Laval resident Emmanuel Mavroudis. According to the affidavit Leblanc used to obtain the warrant, the informant also said: "Mani's uncle, an individual residing in Longueuil, is the supplier of these individuals. He is about 45 to 50 years old."

Based on information they gathered later, Laval police came to believe the "uncle" to whom the informant referred was Parasiris, who lived in Brossard, then a borough of Longueuil. Parasiris was 40 at the time.

(According to evidence presented at Parasiris's bail hearing, Mavroudis is his godson.)

The investigation gradually uncovered four other drug traffickers who appeared to be linked through Mavroudis.

A little more than a month after getting the tip, Leblanc gathered enough information to send a plainclothes police officer to buy drugs from the dealers. When the officer called one of the dealers, he arranged to meet her outside Le Skratch, on Curé Labelle Blvd. Hours later, she bought a half-gram of cocaine from a man who turned out to be Mavroudis.

By Oct. 25, 2006, after making several small cocaine purchases from Mavroudis and other dealers he sent to her, the same undercover officer began asking for larger quantities of cocaine. Laval investigators did this with the goal of finding out where the dealers kept their stash of cocaine.

Weeks later, Parasiris's name came up for the first time in the investigation. Nikolaos Xanthis, one of the drug dealers to whom Laval police were paying particular attention, was pulled over in Longueuil for speeding. The car he was driving, a Pontiac Grand Prix, was registered to Parasiris. Leblanc checked to see if Parasiris had a criminal record and found nothing.

One week later, Laval police investigators conducting surveillance on Xanthis followed him to an apartment in a duplex on Broadway St. in Brossard. No one appeared to live at the address. Laval police believed they had finally found the location where the dealers hid their cocaine.

While it was relatively close to Parasiris's home, the Brossard apartment still didn't link him to the drug dealers, who were all Laval residents.

The first link didn't come until Feb. 13, 2007, when investigators were following Xanthis while he was driving around and appeared to be making small drug deals.

While running errands, he stopped at Golf-O-Max, a club in Dorval where patrons practise their swings on golf simulators. It's housed in the same building as a bar, and both businesses were part-owned by Parasiris.

Police watched as Xanthis headed to an office inside Golf-O-Max and then appeared to sell drugs to customers.

After leaving the Dorval club, Xanthis travelled to the apartment on Broadway St. in Brossard. He went inside, came out a minute later, then headed for Parasiris's home on Rimouski Cres., where he stayed for about 30 minutes before returning again to the apartment.

Then, on Feb. 27, 2007, while Laval police morality-drug investigators followed, Xanthis travelled from his home in Laval to the apartment on Broadway St. While he was inside, an individual who appeared to be Basil Parasiris showed up in a car registered to Parasiris's wife, Penny Gounis.

Laval police never clearly established it was Parasiris who showed up.

A day after Parasiris appeared to have been spotted at the apartment on Broadway, Leblanc did an analysis of a beacon device that had been secretly placed on a BMW Mavroudis used to make drug deals. The device indicated Mavroudis was near Parasiris's home on Rimouski Cres. 10 times between Dec. 6, 2006, and Feb. 1, 2007. The BMW had also been to the Golf-O-Max in Dorval twice during the same period.

On the same day Leblanc did the analysis on the beacon, he received another tip from Montreal police. Citing an anonymous source, a Montreal police organized crime investigator said a man named Bill (the name Parasiris goes by), the owner of the Golf-O-Max in Dorval, was tied to cocaine trafficking.

The anonymous tipster said "Bill" sold marijuana and cocaine at the Golf-O-Max. The same tipster also supplied a cellphone number that turned out to be registered to Kosta Katsiouleris, one of the drug dealers Laval police were already investigating.

Using those bits of information, Laval police decided to include Parasiris's home as a place they wanted to search when they planned to carry out their operation targeting the other five drug dealers. They initially believed they would find a large quantity of drugs inside the apartment on Broadway St. and planned to conduct a dynamic entry there.

They also originally planned to go to Parasiris's home with a standard search warrant.

During Parasiris's bail hearing in 2007, a Sûreté du Québec investigator said Laval police changed their plans out of fear someone living in the Broadway St. duplex would hear them break down the door at 5 a.m. and tip off people whose homes would be searched an hour later.

Laval police decided to ask permission to use a dynamic entry at Parasiris's home instead. Leblanc managed to persuade the justice of the peace to approve the warrant even though Leblanc had no evidence Parasiris kept drugs inside his home.

That's the main reason the warrant and evidence resulting from it were tossed out before Parasiris's murder trial.

During a pretrial hearing, members of the Laval police morality-drug squad tried to explain why they suddenly wanted to raid Parasiris's home, using a dynamic entry. But in his written decision, Cournoyer described their reasoning as "incomprehensible."

"The use of force was not justified under the circumstances because the case did not establish that a (regular search warrant) would bring about the loss or imminent destruction of evidence," the judge stated in his decision.

Cournoyer also noted the police had no direct evidence Parasiris either supplied drugs to Xanthis or Mavroudis or that he stored drugs inside his home.

"The (affidavit) did nothing but establish the existence of contacts (visits to homes, businesses and telephone calls) between drug traffickers and Mr. Parasiris in circumstances that did not establish the reasonable probability that Mr. Parasiris is implicated in drug trafficking and was supplying Mr. Xanthis and/or Mavroudis," Cournoyer wrote.

Parasiris also faces eight weapons-related charges, including the illegal possession of three firearms.
 
jerseyrugger76 said:
Based strictly on what you posted, I say self-defense. It sounds as if the whole situation could have transpired in a few seconds, which may not have been long enough for the "intruders" to identify themselves as police to the guy. That said, the cops on TV are pretty good about announcing their presence before they go in with guns blazing. Maybe things in real life don't go as smoothly. Perhaps one of our many ex cons can comment? ;)

I agree with this. I also did not read the full story.
 
Drug dealer or not, if they surprised him, and failed to clearly identify themselves upon entry it was self defense. I would be fine convicting him of a lesser charge if there actually was proof of trafficking.
 
blueta2 said:
Warrant was violation of Parasiris's rights
Jurors never heard police were after drugs: evidence seized from home was thrown out
Paul Cherry, Gazette crime reporter
Published: Tuesday, June 10

LAVAL - As the six women and six men of the jury in the first-degree murder trial of Basil Parasiris enter their second day of deliberations today, one nagging question must be on most of their minds: Why did Laval police Constable Daniel Tessier and eight of his colleagues storm into Parasiris's home in Brossard on March 2, 2007?

Parasiris killed Tessier during a shootout with police because, the defendant says, he believed it was a home invasion.

The jurors have never been told why the police were there.

In a decision rendered before the jury began hearing evidence, Superior Court Judge Guy Cournoyer ruled the warrant that allowed Laval police to smash down the front door of Parasiris's house on Rimouski Cres. and conduct an aggressive predawn drug raid inside his home was a violation of his rights.

That meant any evidence the police seized inside his home that might have linked him to a small drug trafficking ring that operated in Laval was tossed out.

The warrant, authorized by Gaby Dumas, a justice of the peace, gave Laval police the green light to use a dynamic entry - meant to surprise the person being investigated - to carry out their search for evidence.

Such warrants are supposed to be granted only under extraordinary circumstances, when investigators suspect a person is keeping a large quantity of drugs and might flush away evidence if police come calling with a standard "knock and notice" search warrant.

Cournoyer ruled the warrant used to enter Parasiris's home on the South Shore was abusive and violated his Canadian Charter right to "be secure against unreasonable search or seizure."

Laval police never did find a large quantity of cocaine inside Parasiris's home.

What they did find were 13 cellphones, four pagers and eight pages of documents that a Sûreté du Québec investigator described during Parasiris's bail hearing in May 2007 as resembling the accounts of a drug trafficker. During the same bail hearing, the investigator said that while Parasiris was being interrogated he admitted to having been involved in drug trafficking for three years to solve financial problems.

The jury never got to hear about that side of Parasiris, because Laval police clearly made mistakes when applying for their warrant.

Because of Cournoyer's decision, police officers who testified in the murder trial had to be cautioned against using terms like "drug raid" or "dynamic entry," or even identifying themselves as being part of the Laval police morality-drug squad.

Using the warrant, Tessier and eight other officers were allowed to smash in Parasiris's door with a battering ram and storm in with their weapons drawn while shouting, "Police!"

It also meant they could conduct the raid early in the morning instead of during daylight hours, when standard search warrants are supposed to be executed.

The reasons why Laval police wanted to go into Parasiris's home with such force remain unclear.

Near the end of March 2006, François Leblanc, a member of the Laval police morality-drug squad, was assigned to investigate a tip from Montreal police. An informant had told Montreal investigators that three people were selling cocaine and were using Bar Le Skratch in Laval as a meeting point.

The same informant referred to one of the drug dealers as Mani; he turned out to be Laval resident Emmanuel Mavroudis. According to the affidavit Leblanc used to obtain the warrant, the informant also said: "Mani's uncle, an individual residing in Longueuil, is the supplier of these individuals. He is about 45 to 50 years old."

Based on information they gathered later, Laval police came to believe the "uncle" to whom the informant referred was Parasiris, who lived in Brossard, then a borough of Longueuil. Parasiris was 40 at the time.

(According to evidence presented at Parasiris's bail hearing, Mavroudis is his godson.)

The investigation gradually uncovered four other drug traffickers who appeared to be linked through Mavroudis.

A little more than a month after getting the tip, Leblanc gathered enough information to send a plainclothes police officer to buy drugs from the dealers. When the officer called one of the dealers, he arranged to meet her outside Le Skratch, on Curé Labelle Blvd. Hours later, she bought a half-gram of cocaine from a man who turned out to be Mavroudis.

By Oct. 25, 2006, after making several small cocaine purchases from Mavroudis and other dealers he sent to her, the same undercover officer began asking for larger quantities of cocaine. Laval investigators did this with the goal of finding out where the dealers kept their stash of cocaine.

Weeks later, Parasiris's name came up for the first time in the investigation. Nikolaos Xanthis, one of the drug dealers to whom Laval police were paying particular attention, was pulled over in Longueuil for speeding. The car he was driving, a Pontiac Grand Prix, was registered to Parasiris. Leblanc checked to see if Parasiris had a criminal record and found nothing.

One week later, Laval police investigators conducting surveillance on Xanthis followed him to an apartment in a duplex on Broadway St. in Brossard. No one appeared to live at the address. Laval police believed they had finally found the location where the dealers hid their cocaine.

While it was relatively close to Parasiris's home, the Brossard apartment still didn't link him to the drug dealers, who were all Laval residents.

The first link didn't come until Feb. 13, 2007, when investigators were following Xanthis while he was driving around and appeared to be making small drug deals.

While running errands, he stopped at Golf-O-Max, a club in Dorval where patrons practise their swings on golf simulators. It's housed in the same building as a bar, and both businesses were part-owned by Parasiris.

Police watched as Xanthis headed to an office inside Golf-O-Max and then appeared to sell drugs to customers.

After leaving the Dorval club, Xanthis travelled to the apartment on Broadway St. in Brossard. He went inside, came out a minute later, then headed for Parasiris's home on Rimouski Cres., where he stayed for about 30 minutes before returning again to the apartment.

Then, on Feb. 27, 2007, while Laval police morality-drug investigators followed, Xanthis travelled from his home in Laval to the apartment on Broadway St. While he was inside, an individual who appeared to be Basil Parasiris showed up in a car registered to Parasiris's wife, Penny Gounis.

Laval police never clearly established it was Parasiris who showed up.

A day after Parasiris appeared to have been spotted at the apartment on Broadway, Leblanc did an analysis of a beacon device that had been secretly placed on a BMW Mavroudis used to make drug deals. The device indicated Mavroudis was near Parasiris's home on Rimouski Cres. 10 times between Dec. 6, 2006, and Feb. 1, 2007. The BMW had also been to the Golf-O-Max in Dorval twice during the same period.

On the same day Leblanc did the analysis on the beacon, he received another tip from Montreal police. Citing an anonymous source, a Montreal police organized crime investigator said a man named Bill (the name Parasiris goes by), the owner of the Golf-O-Max in Dorval, was tied to cocaine trafficking.

The anonymous tipster said "Bill" sold marijuana and cocaine at the Golf-O-Max. The same tipster also supplied a cellphone number that turned out to be registered to Kosta Katsiouleris, one of the drug dealers Laval police were already investigating.

Using those bits of information, Laval police decided to include Parasiris's home as a place they wanted to search when they planned to carry out their operation targeting the other five drug dealers. They initially believed they would find a large quantity of drugs inside the apartment on Broadway St. and planned to conduct a dynamic entry there.

They also originally planned to go to Parasiris's home with a standard search warrant.

During Parasiris's bail hearing in 2007, a Sûreté du Québec investigator said Laval police changed their plans out of fear someone living in the Broadway St. duplex would hear them break down the door at 5 a.m. and tip off people whose homes would be searched an hour later.

Laval police decided to ask permission to use a dynamic entry at Parasiris's home instead. Leblanc managed to persuade the justice of the peace to approve the warrant even though Leblanc had no evidence Parasiris kept drugs inside his home.

That's the main reason the warrant and evidence resulting from it were tossed out before Parasiris's murder trial.

During a pretrial hearing, members of the Laval police morality-drug squad tried to explain why they suddenly wanted to raid Parasiris's home, using a dynamic entry. But in his written decision, Cournoyer described their reasoning as "incomprehensible."

"The use of force was not justified under the circumstances because the case did not establish that a (regular search warrant) would bring about the loss or imminent destruction of evidence," the judge stated in his decision.

Cournoyer also noted the police had no direct evidence Parasiris either supplied drugs to Xanthis or Mavroudis or that he stored drugs inside his home.

"The (affidavit) did nothing but establish the existence of contacts (visits to homes, businesses and telephone calls) between drug traffickers and Mr. Parasiris in circumstances that did not establish the reasonable probability that Mr. Parasiris is implicated in drug trafficking and was supplying Mr. Xanthis and/or Mavroudis," Cournoyer wrote.

Parasiris also faces eight weapons-related charges, including the illegal possession of three firearms.


I can see why the cops want his ass. I'd want it too since I have NO use for father's who sell drugs outta there homes in front of their kids. What a piece of shit this guy sounds like....
 
A common tactic used by drug dealers here is to keep drugs in the house.

One case I worked on a long time ago involved drug dealers cooking crack cocaine out in the open, in the kitchen, with children present. When the cops raided the home a fuss was created afterwards because there were children present and the cops took a lot of heat by the NAACP and the press because of it.

IMO in such a situation, if the person is dealing drugs, they should know better than to keep children in the home.

When you sell drugs it is reasonably foreseeable that the cops will raid your home. In this case, he may have an argument of self-defense but it will all boil down to the facts and based on what I have read it is not self-defense.

1) Police officers who testified say they repeatedly yelled "police" as they ran up the stairs towards Parasiris's bedroom. This legally puts him on notice that his house is being raided. Shooting after this is no justifiable.

2) The defendant contradicted himself in his testimony.

3) Only one gun in the defendants possession was legal.

From my experience, criminals always contradict themselves. They make up a story and cannot stick to it. That is a major common mistake they made.

IMO drug dealers need to be shot. Drugs have ruined the lives of many of my friends and I see no reason to support such an individual. Not only has this man sold dugs he also killed an innocent cop. I wonder how his wife and children feel? He is gone forever and this prick will either get off or serve a light sentence and be back on the streets ruining more lives.

Funny how these articles focus on the "innocent" drug dealer yet fail to address the pain and suffering his victims have gone through and the pain and suffering the poor cops family has gone through.
 
vixensghost said:
So, they never found any coke in his house?

If they found coke, I say hang him. IF he's dealing coke outta his house WITH his kids in there; he really has no rights and should be kicked in the head for doing that shit around his kids and putting them in harms way.

IF he is ONLY suspected of dealing coke and they found none, he had every right to protect his family IMHO.

It's THAT black and white to me. ^^^ Even if the guy WAS a drug dealer but the cops weren't bright enough to get this guy where he was dirty then as fucked up as it may sound, I say he should get off for self-defense.

The law is supposed to be based on evidence, not destroy peoples' lives based on *maybe*.... Of course, that is how *it should be*.... and then there are the way that things REALLY ARE.
 
AVet, that is an interesting perspective, and I see your point

I don't view drug dealers as scum, I think my government who owns and operates all the liquor stores are worse than drug dealers since more people die from drinking than doing blow or weed.

I think drug dealers are entitled to make a living just as much as the government who sells booze and lottery tickets
 
blueta2 said:
AVet, that is an interesting perspective, and I see your point

I don't view drug dealers as scum, I think my government who owns and operates all the liquor stores are worse than drug dealers since more people die from drinking than doing blow or weed.

I think drug dealers are entitled to make a living just as much as the government who sells booze and lottery tickets

That is an extremely radical point of view, one that I never would have assigned to you.

Go Blue!

I dont know if I necessarily agree w/you but you do give the rest of us some food for thought.
 
vixensghost said:
I can see why the cops want his ass. I'd want it too since I have NO use for father's who sell drugs outta there homes in front of their kids. What a piece of shit this guy sounds like....

G, question, is this guy any different than a guy who drinks in front of his kids every night? What if a guy is selling illegal booze out his house and his kids know his deal. Is that just as wrong?
 
BIKINIMOM said:
That is an extremely radical point of view, one that I never would have assigned to you.

Go Blue!

I dont know if I necessarily agree w/you but you do give the rest of us some food for thought.

The suicide rate amongst gamblers is sky rocketing.
Next to every goverment owned slot machine here in Quebec, they have a hotline you can call if you're broke and suicidal.
 
I think that it isn't self defense, and here is why:

When you deal drugs out of your home and late at night you here a bunch of men break in and yell "police" your first thoughts should be that you are getting busted, not that there is a home invasion. Come on people, let's get real.

Secondly, from a public policy standpoint, we don't want police to have to announce themselves and risk death/injury or risk destruction of evidence.
 
blueta2 said:
A montreal man is on trial for murdering a Montreal police officer.
Last March, 2007, Montreal police made a middle of the night suprise attack on a suspected drug dealers house. The cops rushed into this guys house where this man, his wife and 2 kids slept.

The man who thought he was being robbed got his gun and shot at the cop who came busting into the room shooting. Suspected drug dealer kills cop.

He's on trial and the jury is out as of last weekend. They can either convict of 1st degree murder, 2nd degree or aquit under the self defense law.

If this guy is convicted of murder, I know the justice system is seriously faulty!


Discuss...........

http://www.nationalpost.com/scripts/story.html?id=562799


http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNe...10/parasiris_trial_080610/20080610?hub=Canada



NO way it can be 1st degree.
 
blueta2 said:
G, question, is this guy any different than a guy who drinks in front of his kids every night? What if a guy is selling illegal booze out his house and his kids know his deal. Is that just as wrong?

You are asking the wrong person on this one since I'm sooo very biased on the subject.

I see the effects of booze and drugs in the families while at the shelter. I have little compassion for anyone addicted to legal or illegal drugs when innocent kids are involved. You wanna f*ck up your life, do it without your kids seeing it and suffering thru your demons with ya!


Anything can be a drug if it rules your life and makes you so stupid you can't see it's wrecking you and your family along the way.
 
vixensghost said:
You are asking the wrong person on this one since I'm sooo very biased on the subject.

I see the effects of booze and drugs in the families while at the shelter. I have little compassion for anyone addicted to legal or illegal drugs when innocent kids are involved. You wanna f*ck up your life, do it without your kids seeing it and suffering thru your demons with ya!


Anything can be a drug if it rules your life and makes you so stupid you can't see it's wrecking you and your family along the way.

I agree, it's sad what some kids in life have to go through.
Many addictions are a mental health issue and need to be treated in order for the addict and their loved ones to have any chance at survival.

Even parents who don't have addictions suffer the demons of their parents. Whether it be drugs, greed, anger, anxiety etc.
It's unavoidable
 
heatherrae said:
I think that it isn't self defense, and here is why:

When you deal drugs out of your home and late at night you here a bunch of men break in and yell "police" your first thoughts should be that you are getting busted, not that there is a home invasion. Come on people, let's get real.

Secondly, from a public policy standpoint, we don't want police to have to announce themselves and risk death/injury or risk destruction of evidence.
Normally, I would agree, but this guy and his wife were so out of it and I know there are times when I am FAST asleep and won't even hear a thunderstorm.
Also, in the last year, here in the city, there have been a strong of home invasions. So this dude thought he was being robbed
 
Army Vet said:
1) Police officers who testified say they repeatedly yelled "police" as they ran up the stairs towards Parasiris's bedroom. This legally puts him on notice that his house is being raided. Shooting after this is no justifiable.

Assuming that is true, they need to cover their asses just like the other guy (police lie too). The judge also found the tactics of the cops to be incomprehensible and unjustifiable.

2) The defendant contradicted himself in his testimony.

3) Only one gun in the defendants possession was legal.

From my experience, criminals always contradict themselves. They make up a story and cannot stick to it. That is a major common mistake they made..

Some cops make the same mistakes as criminals and they stick to together no matter what (just like doctors) or risk being alienated.

I don't doubt the guy is a drug dealer, he'll get time for the multiple illegal gun possession charges but I do not think the manner of which the police chose to go after him was a very wise one and cost a man his life.
 
velvett said:
Some cops make the same mistakes as criminals and they stick to together no matter what (just like doctors) or risk being alienated.

I don't doubt the guy is a drug dealer, he'll get time for the multiple illegal gun possession charges but I do not think the manner of which the police chose to go after him was a very wise one and cost a man his life.
totally agree, The cops maybe watched too many cop shows and wanted to be heros.
They could have busted this guy in a less dramatic fashion.
 
If the police didn't clearly identify themselves then it is definitely self defense. Now it's their word against his as to whether or not they actually did yell anything or if they just came storming in.

Anyone who comes barging into my place without notifying me of who they are is getting shot no questions asked.

Cheers,
Scotsman
 
Sounds like a good shoot to me.

Doesn't sound like they had justification for a no-knock warrant and unfortunately, a cop lost his life.

No-knock warrants are a slippery slope. I don't think just hearing someone say police is enough to warrant giving up without visual id.

I could start doing home invasions and yell police as I kicked in the door.
 
I say murder.
1. They had a warrant and went in legally.
2. They followed procedure and yelled out Police.
3. I assume they all wore "entry" clothing and equipment -not mentioned in the article.
So the word POLICE would be very visible.
4. The suspect fired on the officers, he totally ignored both the verbal notification and the written notification.

Does not sound like self defense to me..
 
gjohnson5 said:
I had no idea Canada was that liberal...
Here in GA , ther would have been several police raiding his home and he would have been shot and killed.

Then the drugs would have been seized and used as evidence.

I may have to move to Canada
The same thing would have happened in NOLA too except they would have killed the family too
 
gjohnson5 said:
Well since they cant catch and convict anyone over there in New Orleans , might as well kill em'

I wonder if they still go over to Covington and Jefferson to do all of their background check , Fingerprint stuff and Forensics?
Yes you are right but this new DA is suppose to be getting some convictions finally. NOPD is finally starting to build their own forensics place that is suppose to be state of the art but we'll see. It's crazy that I still love this place so much!!
 
blueta2 said:
A montreal man is on trial for murdering a Montreal police officer.
Last March, 2007, Montreal police made a middle of the night suprise attack on a suspected drug dealers house. The cops rushed into this guys house where this man, his wife and 2 kids slept.

The man who thought he was being robbed got his gun and shot at the cop who came busting into the room shooting. Suspected drug dealer kills cop.

He's on trial and the jury is out as of last weekend. They can either convict of 1st degree murder, 2nd degree or aquit under the self defense law.

If this guy is convicted of murder, I know the justice system is seriously faulty!


Discuss...........

http://www.nationalpost.com/scripts/story.html?id=562799


http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNe...10/parasiris_trial_080610/20080610?hub=Canada


If he's white, self-defense. If he's black, 1st degree murder.



























Kidding!
 
Its unfortunate ofcourse, for the police officer and his family. If he was a known drug dealer and there were drugs thats one thing. But if it was a bad tip and they just busted in on some family in the middle of the night thats a nother....I probally would have shot somebody too.
 
I agree with newbie and the lawyer chick. It's not self defense. How the hell is it self defense? Cops go into homes all the time. WTF? Now criminals can shoot at them whenever that happens? We must assume they did say they were "POLICE" as soon as they rammed the door. Why should we assume otherwise, that is proper procedure.

WHAT makes it self defense? Go back to law school, people.

WHAT FUCKING MAKES IT SELF DEFENSE?! WHAT?!


and Weren't the cops wearing vests? wtf is up with that?

*High fives* to HeatherRae. please send tit pics. thanks.
 
What if the guy did have drugs in the house? Does that take away the right to protect his family? Screw that cop, poor babies lost a hero and a friend. Whatever, crooked power hungry pigs

it's self defense, anyone breaking down doors and walking into your home where you and your family sleep should be fucking slaughtered…what gives anyone the right to break into anyone’s “home” that cop got what he deserved for playing their little fun swat games, this is the reality to what happens in life, if they want to take the risk of playing swat with their big bad weapons with lasers then there you go. Cops have too much power, most are crooks.
 
big_bad_buff said:
…what gives anyone the right to break into anyone’s “home” .


The search warrant. Any other questions?

If you don't like the laws, vchange them. That's what they say. But don't say it's illegal or whatever. Let's talk facts.
 
gonelifting said:
WHAT FUCKING MAKES IT SELF DEFENSE?! WHAT?!
well you used to have the right to deffend yourself and your family if someone broke into your home. hows it ok for the police to brake into anyones home they want to? a piece of paper? screw that man

gonelifting said:
and Weren't the cops wearing vests? wtf is up with that?
i'm guessing it must have been a head shot, which means there was pig brain everywhere
 
gonelifting said:
The search warrant. Any other questions?

If you don't like the laws, vchange them. That's what they say. But don't say it's illegal or whatever. Let's talk facts.

when did i say it's illegal?
 
gonelifting said:
I agree with newbie and the lawyer chick. It's not self defense. How the hell is it self defense? Cops go into homes all the time. WTF? Now criminals can shoot at them whenever that happens? We must assume they did say they were "POLICE" as soon as they rammed the door. Why should we assume otherwise, that is proper procedure.

WHAT makes it self defense? Go back to law school, people.

WHAT FUCKING MAKES IT SELF DEFENSE?! WHAT?!


and Weren't the cops wearing vests? wtf is up with that?

*High fives* to HeatherRae. please send tit pics. thanks.


LMAO.

This was at night, someone kicked down his door and came in. So they were wearing vests? They also had blinding flashlights. Why must we assume they followed procedure? As I said before, visual id is key. I could break into your house yelling "police!"

Another thing, why is he a criminal? He was suspected of criminal activity, had no prior record. Way to convict him before knowing the facts.
 
We had something similar happen here where the cops went in the wrong house and the man pulled a gun and was killed by the cops! The house they were suppose to serve the search on was next door. Do you think anything really happened to the cops not really a few people probably lost some rand and their being sued.
 
Beachboy6294 said:
We had something similar happen here where the cops went in the wrong house and the man pulled a gun and was killed by the cops! The house they were suppose to serve the search on was next door. Do you think anything really happened to the cops not really a few people probably lost some rand and their being sued.


But did they follow procedure? We must assume so, they always do.
 
mountain muscle said:
But did they follow procedure? We must assume so, they always do.


Of course they did or at least thats what they said and we all no police don't lie! lol

I knew some guys that use to go rob other drug dealers and they use to wear black and say they were cops when they kicked in the door so you never no. We have also had people pulling women over with a car that looks like a police with a red light in it and a fake badge saying they were cops and then raped the women.
 
blueta2 said:
A montreal man is on trial for murdering a Montreal police officer.
Last March, 2007, Montreal police made a middle of the night suprise attack on a suspected drug dealers house. The cops rushed into this guys house where this man, his wife and 2 kids slept.

The man who thought he was being robbed got his gun and shot at the cop who came busting into the room shooting. Suspected drug dealer kills cop.

He's on trial and the jury is out as of last weekend. They can either convict of 1st degree murder, 2nd degree or aquit under the self defense law.

If this guy is convicted of murder, I know the justice system is seriously faulty!


Discuss...........

http://www.nationalpost.com/scripts/story.html?id=562799


http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNe...10/parasiris_trial_080610/20080610?hub=Canada

Something like this happened in Texas like 30 years ago. A college student/small time pot dealer got robbed. He went out and bought a gun. A couple of weeks later his house was raided by Texas Rangers. They didn't identify themselves as cops and he thought he was being robbed again. So he pulled out his gun and shot one of the guys. The Ranger died. The kid swore he didnt know they were police. And technically it was self defense, as in Texas you can totally kill people who break into your house. But a simple "I'm sorry I thought I was being robbed" didnt work for the kid. He is still in jail. He's lucky he didnt get the the death penalty. Poor kid.
 
balboa29 said:
I think that it is self-defense. But it depends on the whole story though. Is that the assumption of the cops. Did he surrender once he realized they were cops. All that plays into affect. Im sorry if it says that in the story, I don't have time to read it. I don't even have time to be on here.

agreed. . .agreed. . .
 
Stefka said:
Something like this happened in Texas like 30 years ago. A college student/small time pot dealer got robbed. He went out and bought a gun. A couple of weeks later his house was raided by Texas Rangers. They didn't identify themselves as cops and he thought he was being robbed again. So he pulled out his gun and shot one of the guys. The Ranger died. The kid swore he didnt know they were police. And technically it was self defense, as in Texas you can totally kill people who break into your house. But a simple "I'm sorry I thought I was being robbed" didnt work for the kid. He is still in jail. He's lucky he didnt get the the death penalty. Poor kid.
that is TOTAL BS!
Poor kid is right. Sounds like the jury was on crack to convict him
 
Stefka said:
Something like this happened in Texas like 30 years ago. A college student/small time pot dealer got robbed. He went out and bought a gun. A couple of weeks later his house was raided by Texas Rangers. They didn't identify themselves as cops and he thought he was being robbed again. So he pulled out his gun and shot one of the guys. The Ranger died. The kid swore he didnt know they were police. And technically it was self defense, as in Texas you can totally kill people who break into your house. But a simple "I'm sorry I thought I was being robbed" didnt work for the kid. He is still in jail. He's lucky he didnt get the the death penalty. Poor kid.



^^^THIS is self defense.

The other story... ummm, you can't kill a cop, even if he's in your house... and at night... AND you're sleeping. lol
 
gonelifting said:
^^^THIS is self defense.

The other story... ummm, you can't kill a cop, even if he's in your house... and at night... AND you're sleeping. lol


Disagree. It was self defense. I don't believe ANYONE has a right to barge into a home in the middle of the night unless they find a fugative and need to suprise him.
This dude is a biz man and could be busted anytime of day
 
blueta2 said:
Disagree. It was self defense. I don't believe ANYONE has a right to barge into a home in the middle of the night unless they find a fugative and need to suprise him.
This dude is a biz man and could be busted anytime of day


That's nice that you don't believe that. When they change THE LAW, then you'll be correct in your belief and have a point in the eyes of the law. As it is now, it IS right for them to barge in etc... They had a warrant.

Where is the confusion? Let's not think with our emotions here, people.

I'm gonna FUCK EVERYONE IN THE ASS RIGHT NOW!
 
gonelifting said:
That's nice that you don't believe that. When they change THE LAW, then you'll be correct in your belief and have a point in the eyes of the law. As it is now, it IS right for them to barge in etc... They had a warrant.

Where is the confusion? Let's not think with our emotions here, people.

I'm gonna FUCK EVERYONE IN THE ASS RIGHT NOW!
I'm not into anal
 
gonelifting said:
That's nice that you don't believe that. When they change THE LAW, then you'll be correct in your belief and have a point in the eyes of the law. As it is now, it IS right for them to barge in etc... They had a warrant.

Where is the confusion? Let's not think with our emotions here, people.

I'm gonna FUCK EVERYONE IN THE ASS RIGHT NOW!
The college kid/pot dealer was the same. They had a warrant. They were just being all Ranger-like and sneaky and didn’t say they were police.

There are a lot of times when police raid a building without announcing that they are cops.

Usually we don’t hear about it or don’t care about the person who was busted.

This kid was like a year away from graduating from (I think A&M) and being a normal functioning member of society.
Instead he has spent 2/3 of his life in jail.
By the time he dies he will have probably spent over 3/4 of his life in jail.
He shouldn’t have been selling pot.
He shouldn’t have bought a gun (legally).
But still, he shouldn’t have to spend most of his life in jail over this.
 
gonelifting said:
That's nice that you don't believe that. When they change THE LAW, then you'll be correct in your belief and have a point in the eyes of the law. As it is now, it IS right for them to barge in etc... They had a warrant.

Where is the confusion? Let's not think with our emotions here, people.

I'm gonna FUCK EVERYONE IN THE ASS RIGHT NOW!


regardless of law and warrant, look at it in his eyes if everything he is saying is true....you wake up to your door being smashed in and people running through your house. you have two small children. What do you do just being awoken to this chaos and not know what's going on? Hope it's the police?

if they came through downstairs yelling police and he's upstairs asleep with the door shut you expect him to hear them?

the only way this guy should be convicted of anything is if he is psycho and heard them saying they were police and pulled his gun trying to protect his stash....

regardless, they are going to outlaw guns soon anyways, it's fate, disarm the people, make them easier to control by your government and police state.
 
Stefka said:
Something like this happened in Texas like 30 years ago. A college student/small time pot dealer got robbed. He went out and bought a gun. A couple of weeks later his house was raided by Texas Rangers. They didn't identify themselves as cops and he thought he was being robbed again. So he pulled out his gun and shot one of the guys. The Ranger died. The kid swore he didnt know they were police. And technically it was self defense, as in Texas you can totally kill people who break into your house. But a simple "I'm sorry I thought I was being robbed" didnt work for the kid. He is still in jail. He's lucky he didnt get the the death penalty. Poor kid.


totally bullshit story.
They did identify them self.
Thats why the criminal went to jail.
 
gonelifting said:
The search warrant. Any other questions?

If you don't like the laws, vchange them. That's what they say. But don't say it's illegal or whatever. Let's talk facts.

For the record, the search warrant was not valid and the cops had no legal right to bust into the home in the manner they did....so says the article.

The sequestered jurors were not told that Parasiris' charter rights were violated by Laval police officers when they burst into his Brossard home -- the warrant police used had been declared illegal.

Superior Court Justice Guy Cournoyer had declared the warrant illegal in motions heard before the trial began in March.

He lashed out at the Laval police for failing to be thorough, saying they did not prove their suspicion that Parasiris was dealing cocaine and they failed to act within the confines of the warrant in entering the home before 6 a.m. Additionally, he said they had no grounds to forcefully enter the home and should have rung the doorbell.
 
OK I was drunk yesterday and said innappropriate things. I am truly sorry for everything. No, I don't want to bang everyone in the ass. That was uncalled for.

I do agree people should 'defend' themselves and their families. Hell, I have a wife and 2 kids myself. Of course i would want to do the same. I was just looking at it from the legal standpoint.

#1 they had a warrant to be there, whether we agree with that law or not, they had it and used it.

#2 We must assume proper procedure was maintained unless otherwise posted. If they came in yelling "POLICE.. Down on the gorund..." then they did the right thing. Can you imagine every bust ending up with a cop shot because they "came into my house"? Yes, that's what they do. It's done every day, we just hear about the ones that backfired like this.

If any other facts come out of the case, then things might change, but as it is, I see the cop didn't deserve to get shot.


Where's HR and those pics! wtf.
 
Smurfy said:
i agree with gonelifting as usual


Oh shit, I swear I posted on the other thread before I saw this. ha
 
nefertiti said:
For the record, the search warrant was not valid and the cops had no legal right to bust into the home in the manner they did....so says the article.


This possibly changes things a bit.

It seems the result may hinge on this. I don't know.

I'll use a bad analogy... If you get pulled over for speeding, but you weren't speeding, does that mean you shouldn't listen to the Policeman's orders to "get out of the car" or whatever he may ask you, just because you "weren't speeding"?
 
blueta2 said:
Normally, I would agree, but this guy and his wife were so out of it and I know there are times when I am FAST asleep and won't even hear a thunderstorm.
Also, in the last year, here in the city, there have been a strong of home invasions. So this dude thought he was being robbed
I think when you deal drugs and have a gun loaded and right beside your bed, you aren't the average joe any more that we need to give the benefit of the doubt regarding whether you thought it was the police or not.
 
gonelifting said:
This possibly changes things a bit.

It seems the result may hinge on this. I don't know.

I'll use a bad analogy... If you get pulled over for speeding, but you weren't speeding, does that mean you shouldn't listen to the Policeman's orders to "get out of the car" or whatever he may ask you, just because you "weren't speeding"?

A cop asking you to get out of the car is still acting within his legal rights, so that's a really bad analogy.


For the record, if I were on the jury I would convict of manslaughter...there are more options than murder and self defense. I believe it was a clusterfuck situation that got out of hand and someone was killed without that being the actual intent of the moment.
 
blueta2 said:
AVet, that is an interesting perspective, and I see your point

I don't view drug dealers as scum, I think my government who owns and operates all the liquor stores are worse than drug dealers since more people die from drinking than doing blow or weed.

I think drug dealers are entitled to make a living just as much as the government who sells booze and lottery tickets

I disagree 100%. Certain conduct needs to be regulated by the government. I do not think drug dealers that sell hard narcotics like heroin and cocaine are entitled to "make a living."

Look at the opium dens in China. It almost destroyed a 3000 year old culture.
 
big_bad_buff said:
What if the guy did have drugs in the house? Does that take away the right to protect his family? Screw that cop, poor babies lost a hero and a friend. Whatever, crooked power hungry pigs

it's self defense, anyone breaking down doors and walking into your home where you and your family sleep should be fucking slaughtered…what gives anyone the right to break into anyone’s “home” that cop got what he deserved for playing their little fun swat games, this is the reality to what happens in life, if they want to take the risk of playing swat with their big bad weapons with lasers then there you go. Cops have too much power, most are crooks.

Give me a break.

Cops are willing to risk their lives to protect others. I cannot fathom how someone can disrespect that.

The majority of cops are just like the majority of all humans. There are good and bad apples.
 
Stefka said:
Something like this happened in Texas like 30 years ago. A college student/small time pot dealer got robbed. He went out and bought a gun. A couple of weeks later his house was raided by Texas Rangers. They didn't identify themselves as cops and he thought he was being robbed again. So he pulled out his gun and shot one of the guys. The Ranger died. The kid swore he didnt know they were police. And technically it was self defense, as in Texas you can totally kill people who break into your house. But a simple "I'm sorry I thought I was being robbed" didnt work for the kid. He is still in jail. He's lucky he didnt get the the death penalty. Poor kid.

Poor kid? He was selling drugs. People who sell drugs should expect to get raided by the police or get shot while being robbed. He lived by the sword and died by it. No sympathy from me.
 
big_bad_buff said:
regardless of law and warrant, look at it in his eyes if everything he is saying is true....you wake up to your door being smashed in and people running through your house. you have two small children. What do you do just being awoken to this chaos and not know what's going on? Hope it's the police?

if they came through downstairs yelling police and he's upstairs asleep with the door shut you expect him to hear them?

the only way this guy should be convicted of anything is if he is psycho and heard them saying they were police and pulled his gun trying to protect his stash....

regardless, they are going to outlaw guns soon anyways, it's fate, disarm the people, make them easier to control by your government and police state.

Why you DO is NOT SELL DRUGS IN THE FIRST PLACE. Then you do not need to worry about cops or other drug dealers coming into your home to shoot you.
 
Army Vet said:
Poor kid? He was selling drugs. People who sell drugs should expect to get raided by the police or get shot while being robbed. He lived by the sword and died by it. No sympathy from me.


dude, it's ONLY drugs. Phamacuticals sell dope to addicts everyday. The government sells booze to addicts every day.
Please explain the difference to me
 
blueta2 said:
dude, it's ONLY drugs. Phamacuticals sell dope to addicts everyday. The government sells booze to addicts every day.
Please explain the difference to me

There is a huge difference when it involves illegal conduct. Tens of thousands of people have been murdered, tortured and killed all so these drug dealers can make a living. Look at any inner city in the US. Generations have been lost to drugs and their side effects, like gangs. There is a huge difference between a doctor dispensing a pain killer to someone recovering from cancer or surgery and a drug dealer selling crack cocaine to a 12 year old.
 
nefertiti said:
A cop asking you to get out of the car is still acting within his legal rights, so that's a really bad analogy.


For the record, if I were on the jury I would convict of manslaughter...there are more options than murder and self defense. I believe it was a clusterfuck situation that got out of hand and someone was killed without that being the actual intent of the moment.

+1 good conclusion.
 
How the hell do they have the right to attack without a warrant or anything?

I would rip his heart out if they attacked me while my wife and kids were in the room, ask questions later.

If he's really a dangerous drug dealer, then it's murder. If he's innocent, then it's self-defense? I guess that could be a simplified way of looking at it.

What do you think?

blueta2 said:
A montreal man is on trial for murdering a Montreal police officer.
Last March, 2007, Montreal police made a middle of the night suprise attack on a suspected drug dealers house. The cops rushed into this guys house where this man, his wife and 2 kids slept.

The man who thought he was being robbed got his gun and shot at the cop who came busting into the room shooting. Suspected drug dealer kills cop.

He's on trial and the jury is out as of last weekend. They can either convict of 1st degree murder, 2nd degree or aquit under the self defense law.

If this guy is convicted of murder, I know the justice system is seriously faulty!


Discuss...........

http://www.nationalpost.com/scripts/story.html?id=562799


http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNe...10/parasiris_trial_080610/20080610?hub=Canada
 
the_alcatraz said:
How the hell do they have the right to attack without a warrant or anything?

I would rip his heart out if they attacked me while my wife and kids were in the room, ask questions later.

If he's really a dangerous drug dealer, then it's murder. If he's innocent, then it's self-defense? I guess that could be a simplified way of looking at it.

What do you think?

They had a warrant. The article said it was not properly obtained though. I haven't seen the court documentation to prove that statement and newspapers lie all the time.

Even if the warrant was invalid on a technicality the police did announce they were coming in and shooting after that is not justified.
 
Self defense. Until they have proven and convicted him as a drug dealer he's still a private citizen defending his home against invaders... which is legal in Montreal, right?
 
lol at everone wailing about drugs on a illegal drug website
oh the hypcrisoy of joosers thinking they are somehow different
 
blueta2 said:
Normally, I would agree, but this guy and his wife were so out of it and I know there are times when I am FAST asleep and won't even hear a thunderstorm.
Also, in the last year, here in the city, there have been a strong of home invasions. So this dude thought he was being robbed
Well, when you decide to deal drugs out of your house, that risk is on you. You know that police may raid you at any time, and you decide to keep a loaded gun right by your bed and use it before you know who is in the house? Please. I guess I've just been around lots of criminals because of my job, and I have a hard time believing all these bullshit stories. Trust me. They all have a sob story about how someone in the justice system did them wrong, and they really are innocent.

You should have lived in Miami when the Columbian drug dealers were killing EVERYONE in sight -- women, babies, anyone. That would give you a different perspective.

Is everyone forgetting the police officer who got gunned down by this scumbag? Now there is probably a wife and little babies crying every night missing him.
 
dirty~d~ said:
Self defense. Until they have proven and convicted him as a drug dealer he's still a private citizen defending his home against invaders... which is legal in Montreal, right?

right
 
Cop-killers should be thrown in jail no doubt about it...

But let me ask you this: Someone comes into your home in the middle of the night while your baby's sleeping, before you ask questions, you're going to protect yourself...the guy had a gun and looked like someone who wasn't supposed to be there, he shot him "in self defense"

Regardless of whether or not he's a drug dealer, thats not the point here...

What ever happened to "cops.....open up..." or "it's the police...you're surrounded..."

Even suspects have rights bro....this is America, not the middle east.

Army Vet said:
They had a warrant. The article said it was not properly obtained though. I haven't seen the court documentation to prove that statement and newspapers lie all the time.

Even if the warrant was invalid on a technicality the police did announce they were coming in and shooting after that is not justified.
 
heatherrae said:
Well, when you decide to deal drugs out of your house, that risk is on you. You know that police may raid you at any time, and you decide to keep a loaded gun right by your bed and use it before you know who is in the house? Please. I guess I've just been around lots of criminals because of my job, and I have a hard time believing all these bullshit stories. Trust me. They all have a sob story about how someone in the justice system did them wrong, and they really are innocent.

You should have lived in Miami when the Columbian drug dealers were killing EVERYONE in sight -- women, babies, anyone. That would give you a different perspective.

Is everyone forgetting the police officer who got gunned down by this scumbag? Now there is probably a wife and little babies crying every night missing him.

This guy, if a drug dealer, which I think he is, was not dealing drugs out of his house. He was at the higher end of the drug ring, not the low end dealer.

Back during prohibition, people were being killed for alcohol as they are today with drugs. Make drugs legal and none of this nonense would happen.

Columbians killing women, children and anyone in sight was more about how fucking crazy they are than dealing drugs.

It was horrible that the cop was killed and it was sad for his family. It was an accident and the cop should have known better than to storm a "suspected" dealers home in the middle of the night
The cop knew the risks of the job before he took it. He knew the risks of storming into a dealers home, and he took it.
The police dept knew of all the home invasions that had been going on at the time. They were careless in their procedure.
If you're going to skydive, you have to know the risks, and if your chute does not open, then that sucks, but you knew the risks.
 
blueta2 said:
It was an accident and the cop should have known better than to storm a "suspected" dealers home in the middle of the night
The cop knew the risks of the job before he took it. He knew the risks of storming into a dealers home, and he took it.
.

Ummmmm....are you SERIOUS? You want cops to send an invitation and make an appointment with the drug dealers to search their homes? I can't believe you said the cop should have "known better" than to come into the criminal's home in the middle of the night. Ummmm...that is his JOB.

You think the drug business is full of nice business people just selling their wares like anyone else? You wouldn't believe the level of violence these people stoop to.
 
heatherrae said:
Ummmmm....are you SERIOUS? You want cops to send an invitation and make an appointment with the drug dealers to search their homes? I can't believe you said the cop should have "known better" than to come into the criminal's home in the middle of the night. Ummmm...that is his JOB.

You think the drug business is full of nice business people just selling their wares like anyone else? You wouldn't believe the level of violence these people stoop to.

I think drug dealers in Canada are much diff than in the US. There really is little violence up here due to drug dealers. And not that I want to annouce it, but I've known many big time dealers and they are more peaceful than the anyone else I know. They keep to themselves to avoid trouble.

But yes, I'm serious, the cops should have not tried to bust this dude in the middle of the night. It's such a huge story up here, because this never happens like this.

Here's a story for you; the guy across the street from me is a drug dealer. Small time, deals from his house. EVERYONE on the street knows he's a dealer.
There is a cop on my street who's been taking surveillance. Well this cop, who is now in private security, went to the detectives to give them all the info on the dealer across the street and the detective said. "We know about this guy but have no time to chase drug dealers"
So this dude is still dealing day/night from his house. Cops cars pass by daily and they never even stop.
Why not gang-bust his house in the middle of the night. They KNOW, not suspect he's a dealer
 
blueta2 said:
I think drug dealers in Canada are much diff than in the US. There really is little violence up here due to drug dealers. And not that I want to annouce it, but I've known many big time dealers and they are more peaceful than the anyone else I know. They keep to themselves to avoid trouble.

But yes, I'm serious, the cops should have not tried to bust this dude in the middle of the night. It's such a huge story up here, because this never happens like this.

Here's a story for you; the guy across the street from me is a drug dealer. Small time, deals from his house. EVERYONE on the street knows he's a dealer.
There is a cop on my street who's been taking surveillance. Well this cop, who is now in private security, went to the detectives to give them all the info on the dealer across the street and the detective said. "We know about this guy but have no time to chase drug dealers"
So this dude is still dealing day/night from his house. Cops cars pass by daily and they never even stop.
Why not gang-bust his house in the middle of the night. They KNOW, not suspect he's a dealer
I thought you were very anti-gun? Now you are defending a criminal who obviously kept a loaded gun by his bed at night and killed a cop in the line of duty?
 
Innocent until proven guilty.

The cop had no right to charge without identifying himself. The suspect has the right to ask to see a warrant. His house is private property. He can sue the cop (had he not shot him) for not showing a warranty, not identifying himself and not reading his rights (had he arrested him himself)
 
heatherrae said:
I thought you were very anti-gun? Now you are defending a criminal who obviously kept a loaded gun by his bed at night and killed a cop in the line of duty?

I'm anti-violence and don't condone anyone owning an illegal gun.
I do however defend anyone who I feel is unjustly accused of something they didn't do.
Seriously, in my mind, the Montreal Police dept owe this guy and his family an apology and some compesation for all this trouble.

I'm sickened by how the cops feel they can bust into a house where two kids were sleeping. They should have planned it better and not put innocent (his wife and kids) in jeopardy.

And again I need to state very clearly, I see nothng wrong with dealing drugs. Drugs should be as legal as booze and gambling.
More drunks kill inoccent people on the roads than any drug dealer has.
If drugs were legal, then these sort of storied would not have to be told.
The cops can focus on catching real criminals
By the way, I do not do drugs :-)
 
the_alcatraz said:
Innocent until proven guilty.

The cop had no right to charge without identifying himself. The suspect has the right to ask to see a warrant. His house is private property. He can sue the cop (had he not shot him) for not showing a warranty, not identifying himself and not reading his rights (had he arrested him himself)
Man, I absolutely cannot see how you guys don't get it that you can't make an appointment with drug dealers to come search the house. The element of surprise is so that they do not destroy evidence or so that the cops don't walk in on an ambush. Most drug raids are done in the middle of the night like that for those reasons. The fact that crooks know this and still decide to subject their children to that risk is on the parents' heads.
 
heatherrae said:
Man, I absolutely cannot see how you guys don't get it that you can't make an appointment with drug dealers to come search the house. The element of surprise is so that they do not destroy evidence or so that the cops don't walk in on an ambush. Most drug raids are done in the middle of the night like that for those reasons. The fact that crooks know this and still decide to subject their children to that risk is on the parents' heads.

Well some parents still smoke cigs around their kids or drive drunk with their kids. Humans are imperfect and like I said, I don't believe this guy was dealing dope from his home.
They could have busted him when they knew the kids were out etc.
How do they bust criminals on the Soprano's. The cops never busted Tony's house right? ;-)

The cops need to do their jobs, but in a more productive manner.
Now having said this, ok, if the guy is a crook he needs to be put in his place, but I don't think he should be accused of murder in the 1st.
He was truly defending his life and family from the middle of the night strangers. And again, taking into consideration the whole community here was on full alter for home invaders.
 
canadianhitman said:
Posession of steroids is NOT illegal in Canada, FYI
awesome
but setting up a lab and shipping aas across canada most definetly is illegal.
we are not talking about mere possession, we are talking about drug dealing.
i'm baffled at what i am reading...army vet (who i think is a top notch bro) is commenting that drug dealers should be executed.
yet, i bet he doesn't feel the same way about the dude making and distrubting drugs that are just as illegal (stateside) as crack or meth.
joosers love to think they are some how different and special from the avg street drug user, but in the eyes of the law, they are largely the same person
 
Bino said:
awesome
but setting up a lab and shipping aas across canada most definetly is illegal.
we are not talking about mere possession, we are talking about drug dealing.
i'm baffled at what i am reading...army vet (who i think is a top notch bro) is commenting that drug dealers should be executed.
yet, i bet he doesn't feel the same way about the dude making and distrubting drugs that are just as illegal (stateside) as crack or meth.
joosers love to think they are some how different and special from the avg street drug user, but in the eyes of the law, they are largely the same person


I agree 100%
 
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