Is there a problem if you're NEVER sore?

[buksoon]

--sorry I keep bugging you pro's with questions; I'm new here and you are such an amazing resource; I must exploit you!--

Okay, my goal is to build. I lift as hard as possible (I posted in another thread about how I fainted on the leg press, and frequently get nauseous, and ALWAYS reach failure.) Lately I've been maxing out at 8 reps, sometimes 6.

I'll work a muscle group, then rest 5 days. I ingest more calories than I expend, and I'm trying to limit my cardio.

Still, none of that delicious soreness that lets me know it's working. What's wrong? Maybe it's a "plateau" thing?

 

[JG1]

You should be getting sore.

Post your complete workout.

 

[AMP 33]

If you dont get sore it means ur not working ur muscles as hard as u can.

 

[buksoon]

complete workout

(Forgive me if I do not know the terminology--and I don't.)

Also, the weights sound embarrassing low, but I am a small-framed female, barely over 100 lbs.

Shoulders:
1. shoulder presses-20 lbs (each shoulder)-4 sets, 8 reps
2. standing rows-20 lbs (each)-4 sets, 8 reps
3. arms extended out (dunno what it's called)-10 lbs-4 sets, 8 reps

Often I will fatigue and lower the weights from 20 to 15 and do 15 reps instead of 8.

Tri's:
1. dips (my body weight; feet on the floor)--4 sets of 15
2. pulling on the cable--40 lbs--4 sets of 8

Chest, bi, and back are all good. I see results.

Quads:
1. Squats (just started) 120 lbs, 4 sets of 6-8 reps
knees at 90 degrees to floor
2. leg press--170-220 lbs, 4 sets of 6-12 reps
3. leg curls--80 lbs, 4 sets of 8-10 reps

Hams
1. reverse leg curl, flat surface--50 lbs, 4 sets of 10 reps
2. reverse leg curl, incline--same as above

Calves okay.

Often I'll do down sets (start heaviest weights, fewest reps--go lighter and more), bur seldom pyramid.

I know I spend far too much time dawdling between sets on leg days. I just always have to catch my breath.

After workouts, my Isopure drink, glutamine tablet, and honey granola bar are waiting for me in the car.

So whatdya think? I can't imagine how much harder I can possibly work to get sore. I know I need more variety, especially for hams. (Though I walk on the steepest possible incline for cardio, which works a little.)

 

[buksoon]

Just to add...

I'm mostly concerned about quads. I want to be so sore I can't walk. That must feel goooood.

 

[Welsh power house]

Re: Just to add...

I'm mostly concerned about quads. I want to be so sore I can't walk. That must feel goooood.

yeah quads rue when you know you've worked them, but when you cant walk means you have overtrained or did not warm up properly...the pain should hurt when your done working legs(or any other body part) and even more the next morning!
If they dont hurt now, maybe you have been training too long without a rest week.....i dont go over 6 weeks without a break, that is when overtraining sets in and my(individuals will change) gains stop...
try taking a week off lifting our down shift your intensity to when you are stopping 4 reps short of failure(u r training to failur yeah?) then, the week afterg o full out again..failure, forced reps on last sets...heavy weights...

hope that helped!

 

[liftah]

I am sure people disagree, but, I train hard, keeping reps between 6-8 and I don't really ever get sore but I am growing. When I first started out, I used to think that doing singles and doubles was the way to get big and I got strong and I got really sore after every workout, but I didn't get as much growth as I get now.

 

[strengthmonster]

I don't think you are really pushing yourself to your limits even if you think you are. Do you train alone or have a spotter? Without a spotter you cannot possibly be going beyond failure. Forced reps with a partner calling me a pussy and making me do more always promotes soreness.

 

[sysopt]

If you don't get sore and you're still growing then there's nothing to worry about. I find that if I drop an exercise then start it again I get sore. I remember for the first time I deadlifted not too long ago and I had trouble walking for like 3/4 days. You seem to keep your workout intense which is definately a good thing. My advise to you is to cut your sets in half. For example you're doing a total of 12 sets for your shoulders and in my opinion this is too much for a relatively small muscle group. Also, if you have the energy to do four relatively heavy sets, I would say you're not pushing yourself too hard on the first two sets. Go very intense on the first two sets and go on to the next exercise.

 

[kdmfinn]

Sore?

I've been told soreness is not a good indicator of a good workout. I don't get sore and was told once my muscles recover quickly. I work hard as I can and often times I don't get sore. Sometimes I am sore and I enjoy that feeling. Work with a trainer and see how hard he/she pushes you. Then you can gauge how hard you are working alone.

 

[Corsaire]

To sore or not to sore....

...from my own little experience - having started back in last April with free weights - I have noticed that everytime I push myself in my liftings going heavy with a max of 6 or 8 reps per set, I get sore mostly when:
- I "surprise"/shock the muscle by rotating and doing something different of what the muscle "expects" of.
For instance: on legs day, if I started the last workout with squats, then on the next one I start with leg extensions, or lunges, followed by squats, and so forth. In short: Rotation.
- In the beguinning, I 'd follow a routine by doing the same thing, in the same order, soreness was almost not an issue, my muscle "learned" quickly, you get the point.
Genetics plays a role in this too I suppose. I know I have more slow twitch fiber muscle than fast ones (from my running long distance years), my muscles can get used to endurance fairly easy, I might not be the strongest but I can go on the whole day, if you know what I mean. Knowing this, I try not to let my muscles
get accustomed to patterns, I try to shock them every time:
"Keeping them guessing", like somebody on this board said.
Now, everytime I workout I'm always sore the next day for that particular muscle group, some more than others but still sore...and most importantly I watching myself growing, I can see my muscles "swollen" soon after my workout...a good sign for growth? I hope so!
Correct me if I'm wrong....my two cents.
Corsaire
Borading party....AWAY!

 

[sysopt]

The swelling is increased blowflow. Your body is removing waste from your muscles.

 

[Doch910]

Hello everyone. Im my training i have always used being sore as a good indicator of a workout. I always get sore excpet for biceps. They never ger sore. Just to repeate Bulk's question. It is nessacry to be sore after a workout. Or can you grow without being sore? Also what is everyones take on the MAX OT training program.

if your not sure what MAX OT go to www.ast-ss.com

 

[endpoint]

You dont have to be sore to grow.

people have different perceptions of pain, people have different reactions to any type of stimulus.

some people cant notice things as much as others.

I havent been sore for quite a while. My quads were lacking........so i thrashed them every work out. HARD.
a gain of 2" over a long period of time (cant remember how long......many many months)........and not one day of "pain" or soreness

The other day i trained at a "institute of sport" squated (front, back and overhead) and hang cleaned for over 2 1/2 hours......THAT FREAKING KILLED at the time......stiffness was all i experienced the day after

maybe im a freak...dont know.

 

[Bulk]

Did I ask a question ? lol

 

[buksoon]

Endpoint, that's exactly my sitch. Me freak too?

I'm famous at my gym for lifting like my life depended on it. I'm still pretty small. (Just a hard-gainer.) But I work as hard as I really believe I can. I mean, I fainted once on that dang leg press. Even after sufficient warm-up. People stop and gawk at me because I get all "vein-popping tough guy" in the free-weight room (usually I'm only female there). The incongruity of a tiny girl working as hard as them ... they just can't believe.

And still, never even tenderness the next few days. Tonight I have my first session even with a personal trainer to get to the bottom of this. I'll let you know!

 

[Fa2]

buk- everyone said some very valid points, for your hams-how about some lunges-ouch! Just saying them makes me cringe a bit, change your routine around a bit, are you always starting with the same exercise each body part? Corsaire hit the nail on the coffin already, you have to keep our muscles guessing otherwise they get that "muscle memory" and thats where sticking points usually start, good luck and let us know the results when you get back to the gym...Fa2

 

[MonStar1023]

I would definitely have to agree that if your not sore than your workouts either arent intense enough, or your not giving 110% into your workouts. Maybe try working out less days a week and giving it all you got. When I was training my chest 3x a week after a while my pecs just stopped getting sore. I think its because they just got accustomed to the workload.

 

[Belial]

I don't agree, Monstar. But that may just be me.

Soreness is not necessary to grow.

 

[Advaik]

Ok, I know I am too early in my training to be posting my knowledge but last week when I did my first week of training I was sore as hell. This week I am not sore at all. Last week I grew about 0.1 in my biceps. This week I grew 0.2 in my biceps. My gains doubled even though I was not sore, so I think muscles do grow even if you are not sore.

 

[BodybuildingUniverse]

If you aree growing and prgressing I wouldnt worry about it. I have certainly trained with a few guys that just had a super recovery system while I can always hardly walk...I assume you eat pretty big.

 

[Jeremy21]

Soreness is not an accurate gauge of workout efficiency. No one is ecactly sure what causes delayed onset muscle soreness but it isn't lactic acid build up and its generally not muscle fiber tear (though it can be).
As long as you are progressing in weight in your exercises and are getting bigger you're doing fine.

kind regards,
jeremy

 

[The_Eviscerator]

Soreness is not an accurate gauge of workout efficiency. No one is ecactly sure what causes delayed onset muscle soreness but it isn't lactic acid build up and its generally not muscle fiber tear (though it can be).
As long as you are progressing in weight in your exercises and are getting bigger you're doing fine.

kind regards,
jeremy

EXACTLY! Just because you are sore as hell does not mean you have worked the muscle to the point where it will adapt and grow. Adaption and growth are the goal. Not breaking the muscle down and making it sore.

 

[buksoon]

Thanks guys!

I finally had my appointment with the trainer to gauge my work level. I told him: "Show no mercy! F*ckin' kill me! I want to be sore as hell!"

And he said: "Oh baby you came to the right place, I'll have you begging for mercy...."

But he did not work me a fraction as hard as I work myself.

So I just think: I'm not the sore type. Just gotta accept it, I guess.

 

[TheProject]

Buksoon, you're not the only one. I almost NEVER get sore. Quads and calves have been the exception to that rule a few times, and my chest was sore this week for about a day, and that was it.

I have a trainer with me every day, and believe me, she wears me out!

I'll live with recovering well.

 

[diablo135]

Analyze your routine, maybe it's not working for you. I tend to get sore almost all the time on everybody part but not everyone does. This one girl I trained for a few weeks NEVER got sore. I wasn't with her on all her workouts, so I assumed she lacked the proper intensity. So when I was with her, I would torture her. I would even do plyometrics on occaision. She never got sore. I would think she would be even more sore because she hardly ate anything. Believe me, I harped on her all the time. At least I got her to add more protein to her diet. The point is, if you are getting stronger/bigger/cut, etc and have the energy, it's working. If not, something is wrong. I notice that many people, women especially, tend to lift too slow. Form is great, but it becomes a point of diminishing returns. They can't life enough weight.

 

[karde]

When I finish a leg workout, I walk out of the gym like I am drunk. But sorness doesn't set in until the next day.

 

[buksoon]

Diablo

Lift too slow? I thought there was no such thing! Lifting too fast is the prob (the weights too light).

When I'm on my last few reps (after rep 5), it takes a loooong time to complete the lift, and control the negative.

Another trainer just told me: "If you're really never sore and want to grow, try to work out a muscle group more FREQUENTLY. Instead of every 5 days, try every 4. You don't need that much rest/recovery time." Make sense?

All you guys: THANKS!!

 

[diablo135]

buksoon

Thanks for the reply. I'm glad we all have a forum to exchange ideas. I come to the boards before my workout to get hyped!

 

[Punschkrapfen]

Several scientific studies show that there is a gender difference in the development of muscle soreness. Stupka et al (Journal of Applied Physiology 89/6 (2000), 2325) conclude "that muscle damage is similar between genders, yet the inflammatory response is attenuated in women vs. men". Some researches attribute this difference to increased estrogen levels in females:
http://www.umass.edu/newsoffice/archive/1999/090799estrogen.html
http://www.caaws.ca/Health/estrogen_aug24.htm
(but, of course, this link is not proven).

I didn't find any evidence for data on people who don't develop soreness at all, but there should be some, whose reaction is so attenuated, that they don't feel anything at all. If the estrogen link is correct, than research could focus e.g. on females taking oral contraceptives, which should make a difference then.

Based on these studies, muscle soreness is not a reliable indicator for the quality of the individual's workout.

 

[the People's Champ]

for all of your exercises, I would suggest starting off with a light weight, and then progressing with a heavier weight, even if it is just 5 lbs heavier. if you don't progress in strength, you will in endurance. IMO, for example, doing 4 sets of squats at for 6-8 reps at the same weight, or decreasing weight is a waste of time. you are not really building any muscle, and you are expending energy that could be used on a heavier weight, or a different exercise. just my 2 cents