Is MARRIAGE becoming an OUTDATED institution?

[aurelius]

I know what has worked for me and I will not vary from it.

Wish I could retreat to such a simple word world of dichotomy, right and wrong, good and evil. I told havoc once what Emerson reminded us of a long time ago. Consistancy is the hobgoblin of little minds.

You see, I´m not trying to piss you off, HM. I once thought like you, vaguely indignant about values, politics, this and that. Did you ever stop to think what exactly it is that has you so upset? What exactly you mean when you say "values?" That´s all.

QUOTE]I respect what you are trying to drive at but it doesn't necessarily mean I have to agree with you.[/QUOTE] I agree. Doesn´t mean we can´t chat and perhaps arrive more enlightned for having spoken.


Retired at 40. You devil. What was your secret?

 

[HumorMe]

Consistancy is the hobgoblin of little minds.

You see, I´m not trying to piss you off, HM. I once thought like you, vaguely indignant about values, politics, this and that. Did you ever stop to think what exactly it is that has you so upset? What exactly you mean when you say "values?" That´s all.

Retired at 40. You devil. What was your secret?

Consistency has worked for me and usually stick with things that bring me success and satisfaction so I guess I must have a little mind.

I'm upset with how the American people have and are being psychologically conditioned to accept things that once were taboo and we are made to believe that it is okay. One example(and I don't want to turn this thread into something totally off the original topic) is the horrific event that happened in Texas concerning Andrea Yates and her murdering her five kids. Everybody trying to figure out if she meant to do it or was it post-partum depression, blah,blah,blah. It's obvious she has mental problems but it doesn't lessen what she has done. I know that is a poor example but let me find another example.

Have you ever paid attention to the frivolous lawsuits that being pushed through the court systems these days? Most of them have no merit whatsoever but judges and jurys are awarding outlandish settlements to these people for their own personal stupidity. That is an example of morals and values running amuck.

We no longer allow religion in schools. We no longer allow to let the best person for the job have it. We must meet certain quotas laid down by our government. I'm having a hard time coming up with specific examples but I think you get my drift. I'm not saying these things, if let back into society, are going to make a difference but it just seems society started falling apart after a lot of things were removed from it. That's my opinion only. We can't seem to do anything these days without fear of hurting people's feelings and step on their toes. Kids are not being taught how to accept failure in the classroom and outside of the classroom. Trust me on this one because I know firsthand about this because my wife is a schoolteacher. Some of the things she tells me they are required to do by law are just sickening because there are no merits to them.

About the retirement thing. I have been in business for 22 years and about 11 years ago I helped (financially and hands on) a friend of mine go into business for himself for a 49% stake in his company. I took the yearly profit sharings and put them into a mutual fund and when the Dot.com thing was going strong, I happened to receive a good stock tip and cashed the mutual out and bought a substantial block of shares in one of those companies. It turned out to be a windfall to say the least. I cahsed out before things headed south. Then about two years ago, the guy sold his business for an even larger amount. I got three lucky breaks.

 

[aurelius]

Consistency has worked for me and usually stick with things that bring me success and satisfaction so I guess I must have a little mind.

that´s not what I meant. Perhaps I failed to communicate myself. Sticking with something just because it´s what you have always done is what I meant.

 

[aurelius]

I'm upset with how the American people have and are being psychologically conditioned to accept things that once were taboo and we are made to believe that it is okay.

Just because something was taboo in the past doesn´t necessarily mean that it should stay that way forever. Women working is one obvious example.

We no longer allow to let the best person for the job have it.

You assume that in the past the best person always got the job.

I hear you abou the quotas and school standards. Both of my parents are college professors and they have a few stories about how things have changed on campus over the past several years, for the worse.

Seeing that you´re semi retired, maybe you could find time to investigate American societal trends in the past 100 years or so. It sounds to me you have more than a passing interest.

 

[HumorMe]

Just because something was taboo in the past doesn´t necessarily mean that it should stay that way forever. Women working is one obvious example.

You assume that in the past the best person always got the job.


maybe you could find time to investigate American societal trends in the past 100 years or so. It sounds to me you have more than a passing interest.

I'm having a hard time expressing my dissatisfactions concerning morals and values. Let me just list a few (in no particular order) and see how they have changed.

Sportsmanship(in particular...football but really most sports)(all levels) - During the game, you do your job without all the individual celebrations (taunting) and after the game, you go and shake the hands of your opponent. To me, that is how you play the game. Today's players are all about "me" and how can I intentionally hurt (physically) their opponent. There are exceptions to this but not many if only a handful.

Business - A handshake and/or your word used to be all it took to seal a deal or a contract. Now, it takes agreements, refining the agreements, hiring lawyers to review the agreements, blah, blah, blah....then finally signing the contract. I know all of the pitfalls that businesses have to deal with these days and they have to insure that they are getting what they are paying for and they have to consider shareholder's interests, etc., but it sure seems complicated to say the least. I can remember, not too long ago, dealing with business customers and meeting with them and come to an agreement without a signature and that was your bond. It will never happen again!

Marriage - (what this thread was all about in the first place) - is no longer (or at least declining rapidly) a holy matrimony taken place before God. It's now more of an agreement with prenuptials agreements that two people make that basically says we want to live together and if it doesn't work out, hey, we will move on without each other. Divorce has been around since marriage has been around but it (marriage) is too easy to get out of it now. Hire a lawyer, file the papers, and you are divorced, then pay the lawyer and then everyone is miserable with hate. Marriage is the biggest committment two people will ever make. When things head south, they bail on each other. It's really sad, IMO, and even sadder when kids are involved.

Work Ethics - What ever happened to the old saying, "In order to get ahead in life, you must work hard and pay your dues"? It fell by the wayside long ago. Everybody(not trying to group everybody together but in general) wants a paycheck but they don't want to work hard or work at all to receive one. Example(this just happened last weekend), I had two employees that had some responsibilites to do last weekend but they said they were broke and wanted to get paid after they finished the job that night. I told them I didn't do that sort of thing and they would be paid on payday. They did work that night and had other things to do the rest of the weekend but they never showed up again until Monday. Must not have been to broke!?! IMO, if you are going to work for somebody, try and do your best and always and I mean always be true to your word. You don't get far with me if you break your word. You'll be lucky to still have a job!

Those are just a few off the top of my head. I'm sure there are many more but I haven't the time to get into the rest. I hope this will in some way help you better understand where I am coming from. I will go out on a limb again and say that if you can't see where I am coming from and since you will not disclose your age(I'm still curious) I would say that you are much younger than me with different views and have not experienced these things I am talking about. Don't pick that statement apart, it's just an assumption on my part. If you are older than me then I know we are at extreme opposites of the spectrum on these topics.

I will say this again.....(this is not directed at you by any means)I am really simple and I am tolerant of other people's lifestyles and views as long as they are not thrusted down my throat and demand me to accept them as the so called gospel. What you do on your own time and in the privacy of your own home is fine by me and doesn't concern me but when they invade my space, use my time and affect my way of life then I become concerned and bothered and vocal.

 

[Prometheus]

HumorMe - I understand what you're saying. Generally, people tend to overemphasize the positives in history and neglect the negatives (i.e., there have always been criminals and thieves, but we prefer to remember the higher levels of courtesy and manners, etc.) -- but nonetheless, your examples are valid in my experience.

an objective example that a general decline has occurred was my grandmother telling me that she used to walk to work as a teenager 50 years ago - a young woman by herself, at night through a neighborhood that today I wouldn't go through during the day, even in a car while holding a shotgun. In those days the residents of that area left their doors unlocked - today its a different story. I also know a few schoolteachers in public schools -- all have stories of physical and verbal abuse, sexual harassment, threats and stabbings - and this is against the teachers!

anyway, these things (immorality, loss of work ethic and discipline, etc.) are symptoms - what is the disease?

 

[Prometheus]

to preempt a possible (valid) counterpoint by Aurelius' - I did ask her whether there were any neighborhoods at the time that could be compared to the modern one I referred to -- she said there was nothing comparable, and that it would've been unimaginable (24-hour drug sales, burned-out cars and houses, random gunshots, beatings of passers-by, etc.) - that's not an objective historical study, but just an opinion.

 

[HumorMe]

anyway, these things (immorality, loss of work ethic and discipline, etc.) are symptoms - what is the disease?

Sad to say but it is us(in a broad sense). We no longer spend time with our kids. We no longer use discipline as a learning tool. Sometimes use discipline in the wrong situations. We don't let kids use their imagination. How many times have you seen a kid with a new toy and they play with it for an hour or two or a day and then discard to the toy box and then complain to their parents, "there is nothing to do." I can't tell you how inventive we had to be growing up. Have you ever taken an ordinary spoon out the kitchen and gone outside and dug trenches and made little houses and put plastic toy soldiers around them and play a make believe "army or war"? Or dug those trenches and filled them up with water and make like a moat around your battlefield. This is imagination at it's purest form, IMO. I think I wound up losing my mother's entire spoon collection in the backyard. LOL!

Anyway, parents nowadays are more into giving the kid $10 or $20 to get them away from them and not bother them. They give allowances to their kids for no chores performed. Kids are not taught the value of a dollar and how hard it is to make a doolar. Granted, a dollar is not much these days but a lot of dollars is something! The other day, I let my oldest daughter (9 years old) go with me to check on some work things and it took about three hours and I told her if she helped me I would pay her, of course I didn't tell her how much I would pay her. I paid her $15.00 but she really worked hard for it. To make a long story short, she said....."Is that all?" I was shocked to say the least! I had a good talking and explaning session with her later that night! She understands now hopefully but sometimes they forget!

I would say, we are to blame for the disease. I will also add that all of the special interests groups are at fault too! A whole new thread could get all kinds of responses though! My opinion only.

 

[kd]

Historically, marriage became a publicly accepted, mainstream idea around the 1200's.

Hmmmm...lets see then,

Avg life span in the 1200's = 35
Lifestyle = uh...trying to eat and not be killed ?

Avg life span in 2000 = 72 (don't quote me on that number)
Lifestyle = anything, and everything

Is marriage an outdated institution?.....YES.............

 

[-SD-]

Historically, marriage became a publicly accepted, mainstream idea around the 1200's.

Hmmmm...lets see then,

Avg life span in the 1200's = 35
Lifestyle = uh...trying to eat and not be killed ?

Avg life span in 2000 = 72 (don't quote me on that number)
Lifestyle = anything, and everything

Is marriage an outdated institution?.....YES.............

Im failing to make the connection.