Is Kerry's speech on Stem Cell research...

[Becoming]

You people do realize that stem cell research is still allowed, it just can't receive federal funding unless it limits itself to those cells outlined by the presdiential directive.

Private companies can and are doing stem cell research....

Like I said bro - it is all an "emotion" issue now and they have taken all the logic out of it....

this "heart stings" issue has taken on way more weight than its usefulness woudl dictate...

 

[juiceddreadlocks]

actually I do and have - I have worked with excellent research institutions and bad ones as well... I have close friends that have their own labs in NIH, is that adequate exposure?

I have had the chance to to see first hand some of the crap research and invalid animal models people try to put out.... (when they are not sufficiently policed by their institituions/peers) I have also had the chance to see some great research that has real possibilities that is underfunded - because it is not a sexy/in vogue topic

I now work with pharma/biotech companies - a fair amount of those try to put together lots of crap ideas as well that will never go anywhere but sound good "in theory" millions in wasted funding for something that was fundamentally flawed... all the while the execs ride around in limos and throw expensive parties - while little to nothing of any clinical significance is ever accomplished...

I will say there are good and bad tho - some people have only the highest aspirations - while others just want to hit whatever hot topic guarantees easy and plentiful funding so they can stretch it out a few more years for tenure.

Again - it goes back to adequate policing by instititions/peers - the most prestigious institutions this is generally NOT a problem - now what about the other 95% of researchers?

ive always been under the impression that research scientists (readPh.d or something like it) have had in most fields excellent policies in self policing.

i can see the comment about tenure though.

 

[jerseyart]

Like I said bro - it is all an "emotion" issue now and they have taken all the logic out of it....

this "heart stings" issue has taken on way more weight than its usefulness woudl dictate...

Whats sad man is that it was such a just comprimise to the debate.

Essentially the President said we will allow, and even fund, research involving stem cells already harvested prior to a certain date.

What we will not do is encourage more humans to be conceived for the sole purpose of harvesting their cells, and will not finacially reward those who do so.

But apparently Kerry has no issue with killing humans provided someone else may at some future point gain advantage from their death

 

[Becoming]

ive always been under the impression that research scientists (readPh.d or something like it) have had in most fields excellent policies in self policing.

i can see the comment about tenure though.

like I said the better institutions have better people (for the most part - but no guarantees)... as you go down the ladder it gets a lot more cloudy....

I have heard lots of stories about people going through 10x more work than the study itself would take to fake documentation/results - even at highly ranked institutions (good way to get out of the game permanently) because it guaranteed their position/funding...

with companies with inflated salaries, perks etc the situation is only exacerbated... because most shareholders don't know jack about science....

and then there is the pervasive "round-file" - if the results don't fit your ideas (even if the controls were valid) some researchers will just dump them and repeat until they get the results they want to show - I have seen this and it is disgusting - but also common
(I always thought - "why not just show there is no pattern - or that you were wrong?" - because that won't result in a paper being published or funding - although that would increase the body of knowledge)



it isn't all bad by any means - but it isn't as clean as you think

 

[Becoming]

But apparently Kerry has no issue with killing humans provided someone else may at some future point gain advantage from their death

I don't really have a problem with using cells that would be destroyed (like left overs from artificial fertilizations, etc.... if they have a valid and therapy developed and can say - we can use these 2 "going to be wasted" embryos to repair this guys broken back.....

BUT - the fundamental problems with applying the technology that still need to be worked out, CAN be worked out just as well with cell lines... it has nothing to do with the types of cells and EVERYTHING to do with the experiemental protocols/models and not knowing all the contributing factors involved....

it has been made out to be such an issue that they "MUST have access to new cells" to make it work that it is totally such a farce at this point it is ridiculous...

 

[jerseyart]

I don't really have a problem with using cells that would be destroyed (like left overs from artificial fertilizations, etc.... if they have a valid and therapy developed and can say - we can use these 2 "going to be wasted" embryos to repair this guys broken back.....

BUT - the fundamental problems with applying the technology that still need to be worked out, CAN be worked out just as well with cell lines... it has nothing to do with the types of cells and EVERYTHING to do with the experiemental protocols/models and not knowing all the contributing factors involved....

it has been made out to be such an issue that they "MUST have access to new cells" to make it work that it is totally such a farce at this point it is ridiculous...

From what I have read there would be no such limit, and the necessity of harvesting humans created solely for that purpose has already begun.

Regardless, if one isnt an issue, then why would the other be? How is it ok to harvest humans from that category and not another?

 

[Becoming]

if one isnt an issue, then why would the other be? How is it ok to harvest humans from that category and not another?

If they are going to be destroyed I don't have a problem with it... (such as fertilizations already created that won't be implanted)... (but then I don't agree with artificial reproduction either)

if they are going to mix up excess donated sperm and ovums for this sake alone I don't agree with it....

what can I say I am a complex individual..

 

[jerseyart]

If they are going to be destroyed I don't have a problem with it... (such as fertilizations already created that won't be implanted)... (but then I don't agree with artificial reproduction either)

if they are going to mix up excess donated sperm and ovums for this sake alone I don't agree with it....

what can I say I am a complex individual..

Wasn't anticipating to persuade anyone, simply desire to put the discussion in the proper context.

It isn't a simple question of being for or against paralysis cure research, or any ther disease or condition for that matter.

Utility or practicality are only factors in the discussion, and not in my opinion the most relevant.

The entire field strikes me as parasitic and unethical. This isnt a matter of harvesting organs from the dead, who have given previous consent. This is an issue of financially profiting from creating and subsequently destroying life for its human parts.

Its remarkable to me that such an obvious dilemna is given such short rift in these discussions

 

[Becoming]

Its remarkable to me that such an obvious dilemna is given such short rift in these discussions

I think people don't discuss this because either they are going to be for or against it, and their opinion probably won't change - the only real question is going to be where one draws the line...

it is like abortion part II

 

[Robert Jan]

im in med school now soon ill be stem cell researching all over the place