Is equipment cheapening powerlifting?

[Fast Twitch Fiber]

What do you guys think of all the new incredible records being set with double and triple layered suits and shirts, bench shirts worn with the neck line around the chest, canvas suits, and even duct tape under a double bench shirt? I think it's starting to get ridiculous. It took from 1985 to 2001 for the heavy wt. bench record to go from 705 to 800. Now there's a 900 lb. lift only 3 years later! And it's not just one freak that did 900. There are a couple more in the high 800's. You won't convince me that the training methods and drugs are better because I don't think there have been any major advances in AAS in the past 3 yrs. I'm certain it's all in the new equipment. I've watched guys struggle with 450 lb. benches in the warmup area and then somehow push over 600 with their shirt. I don't know about you guys, but I'm lucky to get 30 pounds extra with a shirt. I saw an ad for a $275 squat suit. The damn thing looked like it was 3/4" thick. At what point does it stop? I think it's turning the sport into a joke.

 

[Phreezer_Machine]

Well Gene Rychlak uses a poly Inzer phenom. Not a double or triple denim.... So this "new" equipment isn't that large of a factor after all......

It's not turning into a joke.. people are just learning how to train with their gear better....AGAIN.. The world record holder uses a freak'n poly shirt..not a double or triple denim.

If you're only getting 30lbs out of your shirt.. you need to get with someone who can actualy show you how to use the damn thing... You've been wasting your time. I get roughly a 100lbs out of my shirt.. and I didn't start benching 500lbs untill I started training Metal Militia style. Abandon your current training methods..Get with a coach (hire one if you need to)

 

[Parabellum]

MM brought me from 365 to 420 raw in a couple of months.
I went to one of their seminars and learned so much well worth the time.
I went to one of Mule's (Mike Miller) seminars. www.nazbar.com

Check out their forum Phreezer....

 

[Phreezer_Machine]

I've become a big advocate of MM training. I am actualy a convert from westside. (those damn banded DE upper body days tore up my elbows and shoulders..lol)

My workout partner (ish) has gone to a couple of differant simenars and worked out with Mike Miller and then later on with Dave Tate.. another good friend of mine (Animal Mass) who also attended a couple of those seminars has helped me out a ton. He taught me the infamous "J" movement.

I know that learning all of this stuff second hand isn't always the best... and I definatly plan on attending a Bench day with the MM boys.. and a Squat DL day with Burns and Tate....

 

[Fast Twitch Fiber]

Rychlak still wears the shirt with the neck around his chest. I've been told that makes a huge difference but I've never tried it myself. Does anyone know what he benches raw?

 

[donsj]

I would only ask, "did putting facemasks on football helmets cheapen football"

 

[Cuthbert]

I would think that, in addition to the internet, information about training, equipment, etc flows more and more freely since more people got access to the internet.

I didn't know shit about metal militia for a long time... now I hear about it everywhere. I think that the increased spread of info has helped powerlifting totals more than anything else.

 

[Backlash]

I don't think it's cheapening the sport, but I do think it's more and more about technique and using the equipment well and less about pure strength (though obviously you still need to be a strong mofo). That's just the way it goes.

 

[Debaser]

I would only ask, "did putting facemasks on football helmets cheapen football"

And I would ask, "what the hell does that have to do with anything?"

I agree that it's becoming a little absurd. I want to know who is the strongest, not who knows how to use their shirt best.

Raw powerlifting is where it's at. The amount of equipment used nowadays is laughable.

 

[JT Iron]

The strongest powerlifters are competing in equipped meets, bottom line. If you want to compete against the best, buy some equipment and go to an IPA or APF meet.

 

[donsj]

using equipment properly is part of the game now, if you want a short career and enjoy injuries than lift raw all the time

 

[wtlftr]

Get big and strong, Get a bench shirt, train a bit and see how you compare. The shirt is just an ergogenic aid, like supps and gear. Give it a shot.

 

[Debaser]

using equipment properly is part of the game now, if you want a short career and enjoy injuries than lift raw all the time

Or perhaps use proper form and bypass injury that way? What a novel idea.

 

[JT Iron]

Or perhaps use proper form and bypass injury that way? What a novel idea.

I don't care how good your form is. Benching 400, 500, 600 raw fucks up your shoulders and puts you at risk of a pec tear. Squatting 600, 700, 800 raw is hell on your knees and just about everything else.

I have nothing against raw lifters. I think it's great as long as you're out there competing. I just don't like it when raw lifters feel the need to talk shit. Powerlifters are their own worst enemies.

This is a great sport and I've met a lot of great people through it, and it's usually only on the internet that you run into these stupid debates.

 

[Fast Twitch Fiber]

I'm not against using equipment all together. But I think that there needs to be some standardization. I think double ply should not be allowed. What does adding another layer do for extra injury prevention? Why does anyone really need a canvas squat suit that's half and inch thick? It's come to the point that you can't compare lifts from one federation to another because of the equipment allowed. It's become silly that lifters are using duct tape around their shoulders on the bench.

 

[wtlftr]

When liftin for max lifts, you do what you have to to win. There are rules and regs for all contests I have been in. If you don't like it then lift in the raw events. To get a good idea of records, watch certain orgs, and compare results. Powerlifting and ergogenic aids are not for everyone, but come on, what sport does not have special features?

 

[Debaser]

I don't care how good your form is. Benching 400, 500, 600 raw fucks up your shoulders and puts you at risk of a pec tear. Squatting 600, 700, 800 raw is hell on your knees and just about everything else.

How would benching 400 be any different than benching 300? Or 500 versus 400? Your body adapts each step of the way. If you fuck up your shoulders, it's probably because you didn't train your external rotators to keep them balanced with the muscles for internal rotation. If you fuck up your shoulders or tear a pec, it's something you could have prevented, period. If you didn't, then admit it, rather than blaming it on the fact that you're moving a lot of weight and messed up somewhere along the way.

 

[wtlftr]

Concerning injury. Weight is irrelevant. It depends on time under tension and rest. Yes heavy weight can do damage, but who is to say what is heavy?

 

[donsj]

doing it legally within the rules of the federation you lift in is part of having integrity in sport, some federations do not drug test and all have different rules about equipment, I do not know of a federation where you can legally duct tape your body e.g., yet if you want to juice then in some federations it is legal or at least not regulated and it is known people are using gear there, the point is that the playing field is leveled if you stick with the rules, forget about the numbers, it is about competition and just like in any sport, innovations in equipment and utilizing them is part of the competition, like secret bottoms on sailboats in the World Cup or new and innovative poles in polevaulting, shut up and lift I hear the big boys say

 

[wtlftr]

a bigger explanation of what I said.

 

[donsj]

Attention debaser, anyone can get injured even if they are using perfect form etc. Come on man you know that.

 

[wtlftr]

I agree. I tried an 900 pound negative withou a strong spotter. I was real messed up. They couldn't find the bar through my chest.LOL..LOL...LOL

 

[Debaser]

Attention debaser, anyone can get injured even if they are using perfect form etc. Come on man you know that.

If someone is using perfect form and doesn't have conditions that would make them susceptible to injury (i.e. adhesions, inflexibility) then what would cause the injury?

 

[Phreezer_Machine]

Don't forget the usage of anabolics that will also make lifters susceptible to injury.. IMO winstrol is responsible for more injuries than any other two aas combined... Now with that being said... I do tend to agree with you.. However you must consider the fact that accidents do happen... and from time to time regardless of form.. Conditions.. Weather or not Pluto is aligned with mars.. something will go wrong and the lifter may get injured.

It's just part of the lifestyle. I have been lifting for well over a decade and I've had my share of injuries ranging from sprained wrists to torn pec's.. And I think my form is pretty damn good.

 

[JT Iron]

Don't forget the usage of anabolics that will also make lifters susceptible to injury.. IMO winstrol is responsible for more injuries than any other two aas combined... Now with that being said... I do tend to agree with you.. However you must consider the fact that accidents do happen... and from time to time regardless of form.. Conditions.. Weather or not Pluto is aligned with mars.. something will go wrong and the lifter may get injured.

It's just part of the lifestyle. I have been lifting for well over a decade and I've had my share of injuries ranging from sprained wrists to torn pec's.. And I think my form is pretty damn good.

Definitely agree on the winny. I don't know why people take that shit.

 

[BodybuildingUniverse]

If someone is using perfect form and doesn't have conditions that would make them susceptible to injury (i.e. adhesions, inflexibility) then what would cause the injury?

One thought - perfect form and an all out max dont always go together very well. And I dont know what you bench debaser or what your powerlifting background is, but you would know what the difference between 300, 400 and 500 is on your joints if you've been there. I dont know how some of these guys - even with the drugs - do it week in and week out.

 

[Fast Twitch Fiber]

It seems to me like lifters at the top don't stay there very long any more. What happened to guys like Coan that have some longevity?

 

[Debaser]

Coan used minimal equipment compared to the norm today.

Everyone says equipment "prevents" injury, but if you're doing 100-200+ lbs more than your raw max...in other words, hundreds of pounds more than what your muscles and tendons are accustomed to, it seems like equipment INCREASES the likelihood for injury.

 

[BodybuildingUniverse]

Coan used minimal equipment compared to the norm today.

Everyone says equipment "prevents" injury, but if you're doing 100-200+ lbs more than your raw max...in other words, hundreds of pounds more than what your muscles and tendons are accustomed to, it seems like equipment INCREASES the likelihood for injury.

I completely agree with you on that one debaser. Allowing lifters to use greatly increased poundages has to increase the risk of injury

 

[BigBadBootyDaddy29]

This is where I have to chime in. I agree with Debaser and BBUniverse. I think if your raw bench is 475, then your joints, tendons, ligaments, and muscles are well prepared to handle 475lbs, and with good form, hydration, and warm-up, you should not get injured. However, if your raw bench is 475, your body doesn't know that you have say weaker shoulders and stronger tris and can handle 650 with the help of a shirt. I think that guys getting 100, 200lbs out of equipment are lifting more weight than their body can handle. I am nobody to judge it and say they have no business handling that much weight, but if you can't do it in good form raw, then adding 200lbs and putting on a shirt isn't safe in my humble opinion.

I think more injuries occur with guys stuffed in a shirt trying to force a weight to touch that they cannot so much as move a quarter inch off their chest raw.

Not to contradict what I said, but I also understand that if you want to compete against the best and if you want the biggest numbers, you need to get with the program and get the most out of equipment.

 

[wtlftr]

People training with equipment don't just wear equipment the day of the meet. they train with it every so often. thewn do not just put on a shirt and say lets go. they have some background and experience. When I benched with a shirt I practiced at least a month before to try to help my muscles adapt. I didn't get the huge gains of 100 and 200 hundred pounds, I got just about 25 - 30 pounds extra and guess what.. I didn't get injured. Smart training will help an individual from getting injured.

 

[BodybuildingUniverse]

Well said Daddy. I think someone getting 200 out of a shirt would have trouble even doing a raw negative with their shirted max - let alone press it a quarter inch. I know I sure as hell cant lower under control 200 over my max. Part of the job of the shirt - as it tightens on the descent - is to support the weight to a great degree. Thats why you hear about the guys not being able to touch 750 to their chest. 750! The bar just stops inches from their chest and they cant even pull it down - an amazing testament to the strength of the shirts.

 

[Debaser]

I didn't get the huge gains of 100 and 200 hundred pounds, I got just about 25 - 30 pounds extra and guess what.. I didn't get injured.

You don't read into that at all? You didn't get injured because it wasn't a very big increase. 200 lbs is a ridiculous amount of load over what your muscles/tendons are used to. The fact that they train with the shirt occasionally doesn't change this. It would only hasten the wear and tear on their bodies.

 

[JT Iron]

This was posted by somebody on another forum:



"Here's a quick background. My name is Dan, I am a nobody in the world of powerlifting, for right now anyway. I compete in both the USAPL and in the IPA federations. Most of my training partners compete in the WPO and/or APF federations. Day after day I log onto this forum, which is listed as a WPO debate forum, and read about people snivelling and complaining about 48-hour weigh-ins, canvas suits, open-back shirts, drug free vs. not drug free and just about everything else you could ever possibly hear someone in the world of powerlifting complain about.

It all boils down to a simple thing called "Freedom of Choice." If you want to compete in a drug free federation, then you are free to do that. If you want to compete in a federation that allows open-back shirts, canvas suits, and 48-hour weigh-ins, you are free to do it. If there is one beautiful thing about the various federations, it is that those of us with different tastes, training mentalities, attitudes and lifestyles can find a federation that fits our needs and wants.

We are doing nothing to help perpetuate this sport by openly bashing each other for the differences in our federations and styles. Now that I am finished complaining about the complainers, why don't we all just worry about ourselves instead of worrying about this guy getting away with this and that guy getting called for that. There is a Chinese proverb that reads in part........."it is usually the jealous mouth that speaks the loudest."

Good luck to everyone in everything you do..........Dan"

 

[Fast Twitch Fiber]

This was posted by somebody on another forum:



"Here's a quick background. My name is Dan, I am a nobody in the world of powerlifting, for right now anyway. I compete in both the USAPL and in the IPA federations. Most of my training partners compete in the WPO and/or APF federations. Day after day I log onto this forum, which is listed as a WPO debate forum, and read about people snivelling and complaining about 48-hour weigh-ins, canvas suits, open-back shirts, drug free vs. not drug free and just about everything else you could ever possibly hear someone in the world of powerlifting complain about.

It all boils down to a simple thing called "Freedom of Choice." If you want to compete in a drug free federation, then you are free to do that. If you want to compete in a federation that allows open-back shirts, canvas suits, and 48-hour weigh-ins, you are free to do it. If there is one beautiful thing about the various federations, it is that those of us with different tastes, training mentalities, attitudes and lifestyles can find a federation that fits our needs and wants.

We are doing nothing to help perpetuate this sport by openly bashing each other for the differences in our federations and styles. Now that I am finished complaining about the complainers, why don't we all just worry about ourselves instead of worrying about this guy getting away with this and that guy getting called for that. There is a Chinese proverb that reads in part........."it is usually the jealous mouth that speaks the loudest."

Good luck to everyone in everything you do..........Dan"

The problem with this thinking is that is further dilutes the sport. This is why there are more federations than I can count. Then each federation has their own record book for each division and weight class. You can find 181 lbers. benching 250 and it's listed as a "World Record" for their federation and division. As the title of the thread says, this cheapens the sport.

 

[JT Iron]

The problem with this thinking is that is further dilutes the sport. This is why there are more federations than I can count. Then each federation has their own record book for each division and weight class. You can find 181 lbers. benching 250 and it's listed as a "World Record" for their federation and division. As the title of the thread says, this cheapens the sport.

i'm sorry you feel this way. strength isn't cheap.

 

[perkele]

What do you guys think of all the new incredible records being set with double and triple layered suits and shirts, bench shirts worn with the neck line around the chest, canvas suits, and even duct tape under a double bench shirt? I think it's starting to get ridiculous.

Starting? It has been for years now. Thanks God IPF still has some sense.

 

[cybadec]

What is mm style? Can you give me some links.

 

[SlavikHavik]

I think the feds need to look at the equipment and ask what stuff is actually moving your body for you. and what stuff is preventing injuries.