Is College Worth It?

[buddy28]

Let me break it down into even simpler terms.

You: "Once you have a degree, no one can take it away!"

Me: "Once you have an incurable disease, no one can take it away!"

Obviously, having an incurable disease is bad. You claim that college is "good" because once you have a degree, no one can take it away. Under that premise, it would be logical to claim that everything that cannot be taken away from you is good. This, obviously, is false based on my counterexample.

Didn't they teach you logic in your beloved college?

-Warik

Warik,

Not to be a dick, but you should learn the definition of deduction and induction.

Induction - any form of reasoning in which the conclusion, though supported by the premises, does not follow them nessecarily

Deduction - a process of reasoning in which a conclusion follows nessecarily from the premises presented, so that the conclusion can not be false, if the premises are true.

Your confusing inductive reasoning, with deductive logic. No one is making the inductive assumption that possessing a substance that can never be removed is good, except yourself. You seem to be presenting a staw man argument to display ur intelligence, which evidently backfired.

Obviously, they havent taught you the difference between induction and deduction in college. Keep studying!

 

[Warik]

A university or college education, like gymtime mentioned, teaches anaylitical skills and objective inquiry.

Then why have many people like me had these skills just after leaving high school, and why have more than many college graduates failed to EVER learn these skills?

Face it - college is a "necessity" because the better jobs require a piece of paper saying that you know something, as opposed to you proving that you know something.

I challenge ANYONE to tell ME why college is useful to ME without mentioning "you need a degree to get a good job." Let's pretend that NO ONE needed a degree to get a good job and that having a degree would not help your chances of being hired. What practical skills would the guy with a Masters in Computer Science from MIT have that I would not?

Note: Practical skills. Theory, the main difference between a "good" school and a "normal" school != a practical skill.

Have fun.

-Warik

 

[Warik]

Warik,

Not to be a dick, but you should learn the definition of deduction and induction.

Induction - any form of reasoning in which the conclusion, though supported by the premises, does not follow them nessecarily

Deduction - a process of reasoning in which a conclusion follows nessecarily from the premises presented, so that the conclusion can not be false, if the premises are true.

Your confusing inductive reasoning, with deductive logic. No one is making the inductive assumption that possessing a substance that can never be removed is good, except yourself. You seem to be presenting a staw man argument to display ur intelligence, which evidently backfired.

Obviously, they havent taught you the difference between induction and deduction in college. Keep studying!

buddy,

Not to be a dick, but too much time in college has caused you to confuse "theory" with "real world application." In the real world, people who insist on proving their points resort to deductive reasoning. "Oh, once you have a college degree, no one can take it away! College degrees are good!" To state that I should get a college degree because "no one can take it away" suggests that the fact that no one can take it away is the reason I should get it, as opposed to stating that there is a good reason to get it, and, once I have it, it can't be taken away.

I opposed this argument by stating that the fact that no one can take something away is rarely, if ever, a solid reason as to why it is good.

"No one can take away your college degree... so it is good!"

How about...

"Once you have a disease that no one can cure, it will eventually kill you. Things that kill you are bad, thus, disease that cannot be cured are bad." Solid argument. The former, of course, holds little, if any, water.

My goal was to prove that the fact that no one can take away a college degree says nothing about why it is useful, which I have succeeded in doing. Your goal was to prove that college degrees were useful. Seeing as how I still fail to believe you, or even understand your reasoning, you have failed in your goal.

Inductive reasoning is shit anyway.

"Eating cow feces will make you huge!" Yeah... you won't necessarily get huge from eating cow feces... "but still!"

-Warik

 

[Warik]

No one is making the inductive assumption that possessing a substance that can never be removed is good, except yourself.

Oh, and don't you mean the deductive assumption?

"Whoops!"

-Warik

 

[buddy28]

Then why have many people like me had these skills just after leaving high school, and why have more than many college graduates failed to EVER learn these skills?

Face it - college is a "necessity" because the better jobs require a piece of paper saying that you know something, as opposed to you proving that you know something.

I challenge ANYONE to tell ME why college is useful to ME without mentioning "you need a degree to get a good job." Let's pretend that NO ONE needed a degree to get a good job and that having a degree would not help your chances of being hired. What practical skills would the guy with a Masters in Computer Science from MIT have that I would not?

Warik, your making the assumption that merely *attending* college enables *every* graduate to think critically, and objectivily.

There are numerous exogenous factors that mitigate the successfull adoption of anaylitical skills during college enrollment. They are:

1) personal effort or dedicated time to studies
2) interest in courses choosen
3) method of course instruction
4) quality of course instruction
5) personal intelligence

All of these factors influence whether a student will adopt analyitical, objective, cognitive skills. Of course, were working on a continum of individual potential intellectual achievement. Each persons intellectual skills are limited by genetics and enviroment. The goal of each college and university, besides instructing the required course content, is to enable every person to reach their individual intellectual potential, based on the factors listed above.

Whats the difference between you and a CS Masters Graduate from MIT? Shit, are you serious? Warik, if you were MIT material, youd be there, on a scholarship, assuming youd accept. The difference between you and an MIT CS Masters Graduate:

Ivy League schools attract the most respected, and usually the most intelligent instructors, in their respected feilds. Course instruction and cotent, therefore, is unmatched. Therefore, students attending Ivy Leauge schools, like MIT, are able to benefit from the increased understanding and knowledge their professors have, relative to "normal" colleges. Consequently, its very likely, MIT CS Masters students, have access to a knowledge and resources, you do not.

College will help you open your eyes to other viewpoints. This is a good thing. Dont be afraid to be wrong, or youll never understand the truth.

Go in peace Grasshopper

 

[buddy28]

Oh, and don't you mean the deductive assumption?

"Whoops!"

-Warik

No, I didnt mean that.

Induction - any form of reasoning in which the conclusion, though supported by the premises, does not follow them nessecarily

YOUR concluding that,

a) anything that cannot be taking away is good.

This is based on the premise that

b) having a university degree is good, because it can never be taking away.

NO ONE ever made that inductive conclusion, except yourself. And you claim others are making it, but no one is.

whoops.

 

[Puc]

Warik,

Not to be a dick, but you should learn the definition of deduction and induction.

Induction - any form of reasoning in which the conclusion, though supported by the premises, does not follow them nessecarily

Deduction - a process of reasoning in which a conclusion follows nessecarily from the premises presented, so that the conclusion can not be false, if the premises are true.

Your confusing inductive reasoning, with deductive logic. No one is making the inductive assumption that possessing a substance that can never be removed is good, except yourself. You seem to be presenting a staw man argument to display ur intelligence, which evidently backfired.

Obviously, they havent taught you the difference between induction and deduction in college. Keep studying!

holy shit!

a lexicographer convention!!!!

 

[Warik]

No, I didnt mean that.

Induction - any form of reasoning in which the conclusion, though supported by the premises, does not follow them nessecarily

YOUR concluding that,

a) anything that cannot be taking away is good.

This is based on the premise that

b) having a university degree is good, because it can never be taking away.

NO ONE ever made that inductive conclusion, except yourself. And you claim others are making it, but no one is.

whoops.

Uh, no.

You're claiming that I'm saying others made that inductive conclusion. I'm claiming that someone made that DEDUCTIVE conclusion, saying that a university degree is good because it can never be taken away which is blatantly untrue and illogical.

I did the complete opposite. I said that claiming something is good because it can never be taken away is WRONG and provided a counterexample for it.

Pardon the big chain-sentence, but you claim that I claim that someone else is claiming this, when in fact I didn't claim any such thing.

I'm bored with this "lexicographical argument (c) Puc" because, much like college, it provides nothing of any significant benefit to my existence.

If you'd like to think of some other reason besides "degree = job!" as to why college is useful, feel free.

As for analytical skills, etc. That should not be the purpose of college. The purpose of college is to specialize in a field and develop the skills needed to succeed in that skill. If college was what you are claiming it is, why are there majors and fields of specialization? Why is there not one big analytical orgy where everyone sits around and develops their skills?

I'll tell you why - because college is being pitched as "come here! learn lots! do good in life!" when in fact they simply regurgitate, ineffectively, what you could easily obtain from a book. Isn't the purpose of a filter to leave the bullshit out and let only the good stuff go through? If anything, a college professor is supposed to be a filter.

Let's say I work 30 years in a field and decide to teach. Should I teach a) straight out of the book, or b) what the students will actually use in the particular field.

You know what one of my teachers told us at the beginning of the year in reference to one of the programming languages we were studying? "Well.. no one uses this anymore in the programming world, but you should learn it anyway."

Give me a fucking break. The only useful class I have left at college is Software Engineering I, and that's pretty sad considering I have about 16 credit hours left.

-Warik

 

[gymtime]

Warik, if this is such a monumental waste of time, why the hell are you there?

 

[Golfer18--old]

Guys Im NOT debating on rather to quit. Of course Im not gonna quit. Citrus I know its tough to be a S.E.A.L.


Its not gonna be tough when I think of the Men and Women Who jumped 110 stories to their death. It won't be hard when I think of the children that are without parents because of the tragic event of 9-11-01. Quit is not in my Dictionary. Pain is temporary. Im doing this for myself and every American who lost their lives in the attacks.



I will get a degree in case I am injured and can't do what it takes. I always make sure i have something to fall back on, in this case its a degree.