Introduction and Seeking Knowledgeable and Experienced Advice

[The Bavarian Creamer]

I am new to the forum and this is my first post. My training hx consists of about 14 yrs of legit training. I have had success in national level competitions. And am a certified personal trainer.

My stats are:

30 y.o.
6'4"
230 lbs
4-8% body fat varying through year

I have never used AAS, and am hoping to add ~30-40 additional pounds over my current weight. The heaviest I have ever been is ~240 lbs, and I have an extremely high metabolic rate. I have always been an advocate of drug-free bodybuilding, but after so much time I have realized that by not using them I am really holding myself back from reaching my greatest potential. I have done a tremendous amount of studying on the topic, but am hoping to receive some specific advice from those of you whom have a lot of experience using AAS. I understand that most people recommend using either Test E, or C as a first cycle, and I do understand why, and generally agree with that thought process. However, I do a lot of fitness modeling type work and am hoping to avoid side effects such as water retention, and acne at the time being. I'd honestly rather have slower, solid gains, and keep them then put on 30, and loose 20, etc. Also, I have a hx of pubescent gyno which I have had surgically removed from one side, so that is another substantial concern. I do plan to use something like Arimidex during, with proper PCT following, but before I put the carriage before the horse I'd really appreciate some feedback on what might be a good option for what I'm looking for. Next winter I wouldn't mind using a good bulking cycle, but I'm hoping to get my feet wet while being able to continue to work over the spring and summer, along with some comps of course!

Anyway, thank you very much in advance for reading my post, and any pertinent information which you might have for me!

 

[Ripp42]

Diet and test.

But dude you gotta be lookin super rite now!

Test e or c

01-10 400-500 mg ah week
02-05 hcg 250iux2 e4d
02-12 forma ed
08-12 hcg 250iux2 e4d
14 days after last inject start pct unleashed could add clomid if you want like 100 day one then 50 for 21 days or 50 for 21 days. Some act bad to clomid. I dont I alway run mine 200/100/50.

1000mg vit c ed
9000mg of fish oil or krill or flax
400-600 of magneesium ed
Multi vit ed
N2gaurd
Bcaa's
1000mg of taurine

Keep letro or nolva on had in case ur buddy gyno visits

 

[The Bavarian Creamer]

Thank you for the response. So to reiterate, you're suggesting that I shouldn't see what I thought are typical sides such as water retention and acne at the dosage you suggested using Test C/E. To be clear, I need to be able to do modeling work at a bf % of ~5%, and not appearing soft due to cutaneous water. I was thinking of possibly an Anavar only cycle, or something similar. Maybe Primo if I could find some... Could I use some type of ancilliary with the Test to mitigate the sides?

 

[RADAR]

Your First cycle doesn't have to be test. In your line of work you could use a light dosage of Beastdrol, Primobolin, or even anavar.

 

[The Bavarian Creamer]

I'm thinking Anavar might be the way to go for the time being. I understand sides effects are relatively mild with Var, but would most of you experienced individuals suggest having Arimedex, HCG and Clomid on hand? Also, opinions on clomid v. Nolvadex would be really appreciated.

 

[RADAR]

I'm thinking Anavar might be the way to go for the time being. I understand sides effects are relatively mild with Var, but would most of you experienced individuals suggest having Arimedex, HCG and Clomid on hand? Also, opinions on clomid v. Nolvadex would be really appreciated.

You won't need Arimidex with Anavar\But Whats all this about Clomid and Nova suddenly Being posted all over the boards, all you need is some Unleashed and Post Cycle,you will be alot better off and won't have to experience any side like Clomid & nova offers.And the morning wood is another plus.

 

[dylangemelli]

You have a few different options on a first cycle but I would recommend running helladrol... I have had tremendous success with it... I have gained nearly 15 pounds on cycle and my body fat has dropped... I ran an extremely strict cyle but it has been well worth it... I have kept logs on this is you want to check it out although the logs are on other forums... I can assist you in any cycle that you are trying to set up but if you are looking for the types of gains I am assuming and want the least amount of sides, then helladrol would be my recommendation....

 

[joeblow12345]

I'm thinking Anavar might be the way to go for the time being. I understand sides effects are relatively mild with Var, but would most of you experienced individuals suggest having Arimedex, HCG and Clomid on hand? Also, opinions on clomid v. Nolvadex would be really appreciated.

Yes always keep these on hand in case the shit hits the fan. Anavar is relatively mild so you probably wont need the adex but since your prone its a good idea to have it. You still need to run a pct. Have you considered test p? With your diet and the adex you should be able to avoid lots of water retention. Primo and masterone are also pretty good.


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[The Bavarian Creamer]

dylangemelli Who makes Helladrol? I've never heard of it. Is it a designer, or a prohormone? I looking for quality (slower) gains rather than a lot of H2O weight. If you could send me a link to your log I'll be sure to check it out.

 

[The Bavarian Creamer]

Joeblow12345; are you suggesting Primo and Masterone together, or separately? I'd love to get my hands on some Primo, but not sure I can at the moment... What do you guys think about using Deca alone? I think it's a good idea to use a single substance for my first go around, but don't want to waste my time, or $ for that matter. I've been in the game for about 15 yrs, and it has taken me this long to go for it, so I want to do it right. Makes sense right? We can't be too paranoid about wreaking the bodies we put so much time and effort into, right? I wouldn't hesitant on the Var, but as I'm sure everyone would agree it's so damn expensive. Also, aside from this site it seems that Nolva and Clomid are the way to go for PCT. Am I mistaken? I was planning on using HCG towards the end if suppression was evident, and Clomid PCT, with Nolva on hand. I'm sure I'm worrying way too much, but again this would be my first cycle and I can't risk looking bloated at the time being, and obviously don't want to develop Gyno. What is the probability and degree I would expect to see sides @ 10wks, 500mg Test C/E, while using Aromasin, Proscar and doing the aforementioned PCT?

Thanks again in advance!

 

[joeblow12345]

Joeblow12345; are you suggesting Primo and Masterone together, or separately? I'd love to get my hands on some Primo, but not sure I can at the moment... What do you guys think about using Deca alone? I think it's a good idea to use a single substance for my first go around, but don't want to waste my time, or $ for that matter. I've been in the game for about 15 yrs, and it has taken me this long to go for it, so I want to do it right. Makes sense right? We can't be too paranoid about wreaking the bodies we put so much time and effort into, right? I wouldn't hesitant on the Var, but as I'm sure everyone would agree it's so damn expensive. Also, aside from this site it seems that Nolva and Clomid are the way to go for PCT. Am I mistaken? I was planning on using HCG towards the end if suppression was evident, and Clomid PCT, with Nolva on hand. I'm sure I'm worrying way too much, but again this would be my first cycle and I can't risk looking bloated at the time being, and obviously don't want to develop Gyno. What is the probability and degree I would expect to see sides @ 10wks, 500mg Test C/E, while using Aromasin, Proscar and doing the aforementioned PCT?

Thanks again in advance!

I would run primo alone or with test p. Anavar is expensive but it will keep you lean and hard. I definitely recommend the hcg. Sides are all dependent on the individual, not everyone will respond the same. I think test p and masterone p would be a cheaper option to test, primo depending on who you get it from. But your money your choice. Keep an ai on hand through out the cycle in case you get gyno or water retension. Test p isnt that bad for water retention I think its worth adding to var, primo, or mast. Clomid works but some get sides from it and I personally am not a fan of nolva. There are some supps that get great reviews for pct from needtobuildmuscle. Its up to you. But overall I think your worrying to much you know how to train and diet so juice is the only piece of the puzzle missing. Pick one or 2 steroids of your choice and run them at a mild dosage. No need for overkill. Too many people run way too much I urge you to avoid this. My first cycle I ran 500 mgs test a week and had phenomenol results. Some people run high doses and the benefits dont increase that much, while the chances for sides skyrocket. Keep it simple and youll be ok.

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[stevesmi]

dylangemelli Who makes Helladrol? I've never heard of it. Is it a designer, or a prohormone? I looking for quality (slower) gains rather than a lot of H2O weight. If you could send me a link to your log I'll be sure to check it out.

its a designer.

I would take radars advice and go with var.. or any DHT if you don't want water. heck how bout a primo only cycle for 12 weeks. no test added. you will get exactly what you are asking for. inject 100mg ED. thats it and simple

 

[RADAR]

its a designer.

I would take radars advice and go with var.. or any DHT if you don't want water. heck how bout a primo only cycle for 12 weeks. no test added. you will get exactly what you are asking for. inject 100mg ED. thats it and simple

Thank you steve, Deca will bloat you up,plus kill your libido and recovery is a bitch thats something you do not want, actually alot of these suggestions are too much for your line of work, stick to var you can't go wrong!

 

[Ripp42]

Your First cycle doesn't have to be test. In your line of work you could use a light dosage of Beastdrol, Primobolin, or even anavar.

This ^^^

Dont think ud wanna do test if you did I keep it at 100-250 ah week

 

[Ripp42]

I'm thinking Anavar might be the way to go for the time being. I understand sides effects are relatively mild with Var, but would most of you experienced individuals suggest having Arimedex, HCG and Clomid on hand? Also, opinions on clomid v. Nolvadex would be really appreciated.

Clomid and nolva suck honesty theres better stuff out there now. Clomid is just an option but u dont need it with pct/ unleashed as far as nolva and letro that is only if gyno show it is not pct. Out of the two I would get letro jus keep it on hand.

 

[The Bavarian Creamer]

So it's either going to be Primo or Anavar. Correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding is Primo will be better for size, but worse for hair loss. Anavar would be better for strength, but worse on derogatory lipid changes. Both bring comparable in positive affects in conditioning. Are UGL's generally a good way to good for Primo? I understand that it is often counterfeited, and or under-dosed... Also, would using Propecia with Primo, and Lipitor (or something similar) with Anavar mitigate the negative sides of each? How long could each potentially be run? With an ideal diet and training how much weight gain could be expected by a first time user? (Periodic blood work would be done through cycle.)

Second question is for PCT. my understanding is HCG towards end of cycle then AI and SERM PCT. If I wanted to treat some minimal preexisting gyno, can I do it while on cycle? Aromasin v. Arimidex v. Letro and why? Might not need it for either Primo or Var, but good to have in case, but can I treat gyno while on cycle? And which is best? Some estrogen is good, right? There have been suggestions of Unleashed, And Post Cycle, what are they, and why are the better options than clomid/nolvadex? What other ancillaries would be beneficial and best?

 

[RADAR]

So it's either going to be Primo or Anavar. Correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding is Primo will be better for size, but worse for hair loss. Anavar would be better for strength, but worse on derogatory lipid changes. Both bring comparable in positive affects in conditioning. Are UGL's generally a good way to good for Primo? I understand that it is often counterfeited, and or under-dosed... Also, would using Propecia with Primo, and Lipitor (or something similar) with Anavar mitigate the negative sides of each? How long could each potentially be run? With an ideal diet and training how much weight gain could be expected by a first time user? (Periodic blood work would be done through cycle.)

Second question is for PCT. my understanding is HCG towards end of cycle then AI and SERM PCT. If I wanted to treat some minimal preexisting gyno, can I do it while on cycle? Aromasin v. Arimidex v. Letro and why? Might not need it for either Primo or Var, but good to have in case, but can I treat gyno while on cycle? And which is best? Some estrogen is good, right? There have been suggestions of Unleashed, And Post Cycle, what are they, and why are the better options than clomid/nolvadex? What other ancillaries would be beneficial and best?

You don't need letro or Adex as Anavar doesn't aromatise

you won't get gyno on var cases that are reported are rare.
you will still need a PCT Post cycle and Unleashed are all you need.

 

[RADAR]

actually i'm suprised at some of the suggestions here, He's a model remember? his body is near perfect if they are accepting him for photoshoots, nothing dramatic is needed.

 

[Cutiebolic]

actually i'm suprised at some of the suggestions here, He's a model remember? his body is near perfect if they are accepting him for photoshoots, nothing dramatic is needed.

Radar, I agree with the above, but he did say he's looking to gain about 30 lb. I don't think Anavar is going to do this for him.

I don't know what he's doing for training/nutrition right now. Obviously these are going to be key and slowly trying a very lean bulk will be his best bet.

For supps I would've thought some high quality test cyp at a low dose (sub 250/wk) with frequent (even daily, if you can tolerate the pinning) dosing. This will keep his serum levels as steady as possible and keep sides to a minimum. Also, if he is going to have some kind of a reaction it will be minimal and he can stop immediately. Arimidex and possibly HCG would, I think, be enough here but I would love to hear why not too.

Run this way couldn't he potentially do this "cycle" indefinitely? I would think this would give him the best odds of achieving a side-free lean bulk, although it could take a good amount of time.

Thoughts?

 

[Judo Tom]

first I just want to say if I was in your shoes I would listen to RADAR.. but at the same time ill throw out some other options ideas as well.. just for fun or to keep you researching a bit.. sorry im not trying to confuse you but here it goes

EpiStrong - epistane - Great mild non bloating steroid and very easy to recover from. maybe a low dose for 4-6 weeks

test only 250mg a week. you shouldnt get any sides or bloat if so formastanzol will control it. its a low dose but if your stats are accurate im guessing you know how to train and diet very very well and then this dosage would yield some nice gains

....

again just some options

but you cant go wrong w/ anavar only

Good Luck

 

[The Bavarian Creamer]

My training and diet are on point, but like mentioned I do want to put on ~30-40 additional lbs, (by spring '13) which may seem like a lot, but remember I'm 6'4". Next winter I wouldn't mind doing a more traditional bulking cycle, but for now I'd really like to start the growing process. If I could put on say 10-15 lbs from this first cycle, and keep it I would be very pleased. Sides are more of a concern than the rate of growth- as long as I am making continuous and noticeable gains I would be pleased. Remember I stated I have an extremely high metabolic rate and am a true hard gainer. Without any dieting, or cardio I walk around @ 7% bf. I'll throw a picture up, but just for an idea I'm going for a build similar to say Mike O'Hearn. I don't mind good suggestions and doing a lot of research, but I want the best advise from those of you more experienced than myself. Remember I've never used, so I'm hoping my virgin ARs will respond very well to whatever my first cycle is. That indefinite Sust 250/wk suggestion is intriguing. Also, remember I have a small amount of pubesent gyno in my left chest (approx. pea-marble size) that I'm hoping to treat while on cycle.

Thanks again for all the great suggestions, keep them coming!

 

[RADAR]

It was late when i posted ,i missed putting on 30 lbs, sorry but it ain't gonna happen on one cycle.
so heres goes my comments (again) I woull ill avise running alot of compounds the first time as you don't know how your Body is going to react with multiplible Hormones.Here is my suggestion.

Test Enanth or cyp at 500mgs a wk
Beastdrol the first 4-6 wks

you will need forma stanazol for the cycle and PCT
also an ai should be on hand esp for that pea size gyno lump Arimidex or letro,also to speed recovery HCG or HCGenerate would be beneficial starting on WK 3 to the end of the cycle.

PCT should consist of Forma, Post cycle & unleashed

You will have to up those calories to feed that extra muscle and maintain it even after cycle.