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Increase Red Blood Cells
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PumpinIronInTn
New member
try b-12 and q-10 they give me endurance
If you have a doctor's assistance you can try blood doping: he take out some of your blood, and store it in a cold place. Your body will upregulate it's number of red blood cells to maintain homeostatis then, after 2 weeks or so your doector re-injected your blood which will give you a boost in total red blood cells. That's how they did it before EPO.
For a more in-depth amd objective look at blood doping try this article:
Blood Doping: Is It Really Worth It?
Darren Beckham
Biology 1407 Concepts of Biology II, Texarkana College, Texarkana, Texas 75599
Key words: Blood doping, erythrocytes, erythrocythemia, hemoglobin, High Altitude Bed ®, Holistic Blood Doping, red blood cells
Abstract: Blood doping has become an integral part of sports and fair play. It enhances your performance by increasing red blood cell mass and thereby delivering more oxygen to muscle (#2). This manipulation has gained notoriety in the sports world for what it can do for an athlete during endurance events. Special concern has been expressed that the cardiovascular system of an athlete undergoing this procedure could be in jeopardy. Still, there are athletes out there that will put themselves at risk just to experience the thrill of being number one, regardless of the circumstances. Fortunately, the last few years have been generous to mankind and several ways have been discovered to increase our blood’s oxygen carrying capacity that are not detrimental to us in anyway. They are altitude training and the High Altitude Bed ®. Both are safe and practical ways to achieve what some people accomplish through a highly dangerous and somewhat controversial method.
Each year an athlete’s ability to perform seems to increase by leaps and bounds. Some reasons for this increase can be attributed to better training methods, better conditioning techniques, and better overall health of the athlete. While most of the situations involve one or more of the previously mentioned scenarios, some athletes always seem to take it a step further. They engage in a process called blood doping. This procedure does increase their athletic ability, but potentially may do more harm than good.
Some background information is needed before one can understand exactly what blood doping can do for an individual. In order for our muscles to perform, they need a ready supply of oxygen. During high intensity exercise, oxygen becomes depleted and the body cannot get enough oxygen to the muscles in order for them to perform at their optimal potential. This lack of ability to get oxygen to the muscles is called oxygen debt and results in lactic acid being formed. Lactic acid is a waste product of anaerobic cellular respiration within the muscle tissue, which can cause muscle soreness that is usually felt after a hard or long workout. Fatigue usually sets in with the onset of lactic acid production. Oxygen is carried to the muscles by two delivery systems. Three percent of oxygen is carried in solution (plasma) and 97 percent is bound to hemoglobin, the principle protein in erythrocytes (red blood cells). If hemoglobin amounts are increased, this will lead to increased oxygen levels that can be transported to the muscles. This will allow the muscles to become more fatigue resistant.
What is Blood Doping?
Blood doping, often called induced erythrocythemia, is the intravenous infusion of blood to produce an increase in the blood’s oxygen carrying capacity (#10). It is a procedure that begins with between 1 to 4 units of a person’s blood (1 unit = 450 ml of blood) being withdrawn, usually several weeks before a key competition. The blood is then centrifuged and the plasma components are immediately reinfused while the remaining red blood cells are placed in cold storage (#7). The RBC’s are then reinfused back into the body, usually 1 to 7 days before a high endurance event. If done correctly, this process can increase the hemoglobin level and RBC count by up to 20%.
Early Findings
When a blood doping procedure is initiated, the packed RBC’s that have been centrifuged can be stored using two different methods. They can either be refrigerated at 4° C or frozen at - 80° C. Most of the earlier procedures were done so by using the refrigeration method. The results were semi-successful because of the life cycle of a RBC. The average life span of a RBC is 120 days. Therefore, each day, approximately 1% of any RBC population is lost (#5). Our bodies continuously replace the lost RBC’s , but in blood removed from the body, the number of RBC’s steadily decline, never to be replaced. It usually takes 3 to 8 weeks for a person to re-establish normal RBC levels, so at the time their bodies are ready for reinfusion, only 60% of the removed RBC’s would actually be viable (#5). This is an important point because most of the early testing was done without adequate time being given to re-establish proper RBC levels. Therefore, earlier test subjects were starting out with a deficit of RBC’s. When the removed blood was reinfused, the results were usually very minor or not noticeable at all.
What was needed next was for scientists to find a way to get the maximum amount of RBC’s infused into a subject’s body at the most appropriate time. First, it was determined that by freezing the RBC’s after they were centrifuged you could completely halt the aging process of the cells. This process will allow you to store blood for up to 10 years with only 10% to 15% of the RBC’s being lost (#4). Second, it appeared that in high endurance athletes that it took at least five to six weeks, possibly as long as ten weeks, to re-establish proper amounts of RBC’s. This was based on the time it took for them to return hematocrit and hemoglobin concentrations back to pre-withdrawal levels (#12). These were huge developments in blood doping procedures and most of the later tests have proven to be successful.
Problems and Side Effects
It is also possible that blood doping could have effects opposite to those intended. A large infusion of red blood cells (and resulting increase in cellular concentration) could increase blood viscosity and bring about a decrease in cardiac output, a decrease in blood flow velocity, and a reduction in peripheral oxygen content – all of which would reduce aerobic capacity (#7). The human heart was not designed to pump this thickened blood throughout the body and, therefore, could lead to a multitude of problems. Some of the problems that can arise from an autologous blood transfusion are phlebitis, septicemia, hyperviscosity syndrome (including intravascular clotting, heart failure and potential death), bacterial infections, and air/clot embolisms (#4). Even more frightening is the list of diseases that can be contracted through homologous transfusions. They include hepatitis, AIDS, malaria, CMV, and transfusion reactions (characterized by fever, urticaria, and possibly anaphylactic shock). Because of these reactions, among others, homologous blood transfusions are highly discouraged (#10). A great example of a successful blood doping procedure with adverse side effects is of the 1984 United States Olympic cycling team. Previous American cycling teams had not fared well in past Olympic Games. But in the 1984 Los Angeles games, they decided to try blood doping as a way to get an advantage on the competition. The results were a huge success. The team brought home a U.S. cycling team record of nine medals. The problem was not the fact that the athletes had undergone blood doping procedures, but, rather, how the procedure was performed. Between the Olympic trials and the actual games, the Americans did not have adequate time to use their own blood as a transfusion. Instead, they had to rely on the blood of relatives and others with similar blood types. Consequently, some of the cyclists received tainted blood and a short time after the Games contracted hepatitis, a serious liver disease (#8).
Latest News and Discoveries
After the 1984 Olympic Games, the International Olympic Committee decided to discourage blood doping and, along with the NCAA and American College of Sports Medicine, ruled that "any blood doping procedure used in an attempt to improve athletic performance is unethical, unfair, and exposes the athlete to unwarranted and potentially serious health risks" (#3). However, the problem lies with being able to unequivocally detect that an athlete is in fact undergoing blood doping procedures. After all, what constitutes an abnormally high RBC level? Also, how do you distinguish between blood doping athletes and those athletes who boost their hemoglobin levels by training at high altitudes? The answers to both of these questions are very perplexing. As of now, there are no foolproof tests for an athlete who blood dopes. The agencies that have banned this practice will have to rely on the integrity of the athletes, coaches, and their medical support personnel to comply with their ruling.
A new invention by a University of Colorado at Boulder professor only adds to the controversy of blood doping. Igor Gamow, an Associate Professor of Chemical Engineering, has invented a sleep chamber that may enable endurance athletes to, in effect, train while they sleep (#9). The chamber mimics the reduced air pressure of high altitudes and stimulates the production of red blood cells. This enables an athlete training at sea level to gain the same fitness advantage as an athlete living at high altitude. If this chamber is used correctly (six to eight hours a day for two to three weeks) the hemoglobin concentration can be boosted by more than 23%. Because the High Altitude Bed ® is legal, safe and natural; this procedure of red blood cell enhancement is called Holistic Blood Doping (#3).
Conclusion
At the present time blood doping is a controversial issue. With the new advances in science and sports medicine, this will probably be a dilemma for years to come. Many present and future athletes will have to use their best judgment when this procedure becomes an issue in their lives. Blood doping is illegal but is also undetectable. The potential risks of such a procedure seem to outweigh any potential benefits, above and beyond the ethical issues involved (#12). If a distinct advantage is needed in endurance events, altitude training and the altitude sleep chamber pose far fewer risks and are currently safe and legal. And, if all else fails, hard work and determination still count for something.
References
Brien Anthony J, Simon Toby L: The Effects of Red Blood Cell Infusion on 10- Km Race Time. JAMA 1987; 257:20:2761-2765.
Catlin Don H, Murray Thomas H: Performance-Enhancing Drugs, Fair Competition, and Olympic Sport. JAMA 1996; 276:3:231-237.
"Effects of Blood Doping and Gamow’s High Altitude Bed." Blood Doping. http://spot.colorado.edu/~gamow/doping.html (9 Mar. 1997).
Ghaphery Nick A: Performance-Enhancing Drugs. The Orthopedic Clinics of North America 1995; 26:3:433-442.
Gledhill Norman: Blood Doping and Related Issues: a brief review. Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise 1982; 14:3:183-189.
"Killer drug should be tackled now, say’s expert." Blood Doping. http://www3.nando.net/newsroom/sports/oth/1996/oth/mor/feat/archive/031296/mor44236.html (9 Mar. 1997).
McArdle William D, Katch Frank I, Katch Victor L: Exercise Physiology; Energy, Nutrition, and Human Performance. Second Edition: Lea and Febiger Copyright 1986; Philadelphia, PA. p.409-411.
Mirkin Gabe. "New Tests to Detect EPO Use." Blood Doping. http://www.wdn.com/mirkin/fc51.html (9 Mar. 1997).
"Prof’s Invention to Train Athletes While They Sleep." Blood Doping. http://spot.colorado.edu./~gamow/bedpr.html (9 Mar. 1997).
Smith Daniel A, Perry Paul J: The efficacy of Ergogenic Agents in Athletic Competition; Part II: Other Performance-Enhancing Agents. The Annals of Pharmacotherapy 1992; 26:5:653-658.
Wadler Gary I: Drug Use Update. The Medical Clinics of North America 1994; 78:2:439-455.
Wilmore Jack H, Costill David L: Training for Sport and Activity; The Physiological Basis of the Conditioning Process. Third Edition: Wm. C. Brown Publishers Copyright 1988; Dubuque, IA. p. 255-257.
Blood Doping: Is It Really Worth It?
Darren Beckham
Biology 1407 Concepts of Biology II, Texarkana College, Texarkana, Texas 75599
Key words: Blood doping, erythrocytes, erythrocythemia, hemoglobin, High Altitude Bed ®, Holistic Blood Doping, red blood cells
Abstract: Blood doping has become an integral part of sports and fair play. It enhances your performance by increasing red blood cell mass and thereby delivering more oxygen to muscle (#2). This manipulation has gained notoriety in the sports world for what it can do for an athlete during endurance events. Special concern has been expressed that the cardiovascular system of an athlete undergoing this procedure could be in jeopardy. Still, there are athletes out there that will put themselves at risk just to experience the thrill of being number one, regardless of the circumstances. Fortunately, the last few years have been generous to mankind and several ways have been discovered to increase our blood’s oxygen carrying capacity that are not detrimental to us in anyway. They are altitude training and the High Altitude Bed ®. Both are safe and practical ways to achieve what some people accomplish through a highly dangerous and somewhat controversial method.
Each year an athlete’s ability to perform seems to increase by leaps and bounds. Some reasons for this increase can be attributed to better training methods, better conditioning techniques, and better overall health of the athlete. While most of the situations involve one or more of the previously mentioned scenarios, some athletes always seem to take it a step further. They engage in a process called blood doping. This procedure does increase their athletic ability, but potentially may do more harm than good.
Some background information is needed before one can understand exactly what blood doping can do for an individual. In order for our muscles to perform, they need a ready supply of oxygen. During high intensity exercise, oxygen becomes depleted and the body cannot get enough oxygen to the muscles in order for them to perform at their optimal potential. This lack of ability to get oxygen to the muscles is called oxygen debt and results in lactic acid being formed. Lactic acid is a waste product of anaerobic cellular respiration within the muscle tissue, which can cause muscle soreness that is usually felt after a hard or long workout. Fatigue usually sets in with the onset of lactic acid production. Oxygen is carried to the muscles by two delivery systems. Three percent of oxygen is carried in solution (plasma) and 97 percent is bound to hemoglobin, the principle protein in erythrocytes (red blood cells). If hemoglobin amounts are increased, this will lead to increased oxygen levels that can be transported to the muscles. This will allow the muscles to become more fatigue resistant.
What is Blood Doping?
Blood doping, often called induced erythrocythemia, is the intravenous infusion of blood to produce an increase in the blood’s oxygen carrying capacity (#10). It is a procedure that begins with between 1 to 4 units of a person’s blood (1 unit = 450 ml of blood) being withdrawn, usually several weeks before a key competition. The blood is then centrifuged and the plasma components are immediately reinfused while the remaining red blood cells are placed in cold storage (#7). The RBC’s are then reinfused back into the body, usually 1 to 7 days before a high endurance event. If done correctly, this process can increase the hemoglobin level and RBC count by up to 20%.
Early Findings
When a blood doping procedure is initiated, the packed RBC’s that have been centrifuged can be stored using two different methods. They can either be refrigerated at 4° C or frozen at - 80° C. Most of the earlier procedures were done so by using the refrigeration method. The results were semi-successful because of the life cycle of a RBC. The average life span of a RBC is 120 days. Therefore, each day, approximately 1% of any RBC population is lost (#5). Our bodies continuously replace the lost RBC’s , but in blood removed from the body, the number of RBC’s steadily decline, never to be replaced. It usually takes 3 to 8 weeks for a person to re-establish normal RBC levels, so at the time their bodies are ready for reinfusion, only 60% of the removed RBC’s would actually be viable (#5). This is an important point because most of the early testing was done without adequate time being given to re-establish proper RBC levels. Therefore, earlier test subjects were starting out with a deficit of RBC’s. When the removed blood was reinfused, the results were usually very minor or not noticeable at all.
What was needed next was for scientists to find a way to get the maximum amount of RBC’s infused into a subject’s body at the most appropriate time. First, it was determined that by freezing the RBC’s after they were centrifuged you could completely halt the aging process of the cells. This process will allow you to store blood for up to 10 years with only 10% to 15% of the RBC’s being lost (#4). Second, it appeared that in high endurance athletes that it took at least five to six weeks, possibly as long as ten weeks, to re-establish proper amounts of RBC’s. This was based on the time it took for them to return hematocrit and hemoglobin concentrations back to pre-withdrawal levels (#12). These were huge developments in blood doping procedures and most of the later tests have proven to be successful.
Problems and Side Effects
It is also possible that blood doping could have effects opposite to those intended. A large infusion of red blood cells (and resulting increase in cellular concentration) could increase blood viscosity and bring about a decrease in cardiac output, a decrease in blood flow velocity, and a reduction in peripheral oxygen content – all of which would reduce aerobic capacity (#7). The human heart was not designed to pump this thickened blood throughout the body and, therefore, could lead to a multitude of problems. Some of the problems that can arise from an autologous blood transfusion are phlebitis, septicemia, hyperviscosity syndrome (including intravascular clotting, heart failure and potential death), bacterial infections, and air/clot embolisms (#4). Even more frightening is the list of diseases that can be contracted through homologous transfusions. They include hepatitis, AIDS, malaria, CMV, and transfusion reactions (characterized by fever, urticaria, and possibly anaphylactic shock). Because of these reactions, among others, homologous blood transfusions are highly discouraged (#10). A great example of a successful blood doping procedure with adverse side effects is of the 1984 United States Olympic cycling team. Previous American cycling teams had not fared well in past Olympic Games. But in the 1984 Los Angeles games, they decided to try blood doping as a way to get an advantage on the competition. The results were a huge success. The team brought home a U.S. cycling team record of nine medals. The problem was not the fact that the athletes had undergone blood doping procedures, but, rather, how the procedure was performed. Between the Olympic trials and the actual games, the Americans did not have adequate time to use their own blood as a transfusion. Instead, they had to rely on the blood of relatives and others with similar blood types. Consequently, some of the cyclists received tainted blood and a short time after the Games contracted hepatitis, a serious liver disease (#8).
Latest News and Discoveries
After the 1984 Olympic Games, the International Olympic Committee decided to discourage blood doping and, along with the NCAA and American College of Sports Medicine, ruled that "any blood doping procedure used in an attempt to improve athletic performance is unethical, unfair, and exposes the athlete to unwarranted and potentially serious health risks" (#3). However, the problem lies with being able to unequivocally detect that an athlete is in fact undergoing blood doping procedures. After all, what constitutes an abnormally high RBC level? Also, how do you distinguish between blood doping athletes and those athletes who boost their hemoglobin levels by training at high altitudes? The answers to both of these questions are very perplexing. As of now, there are no foolproof tests for an athlete who blood dopes. The agencies that have banned this practice will have to rely on the integrity of the athletes, coaches, and their medical support personnel to comply with their ruling.
A new invention by a University of Colorado at Boulder professor only adds to the controversy of blood doping. Igor Gamow, an Associate Professor of Chemical Engineering, has invented a sleep chamber that may enable endurance athletes to, in effect, train while they sleep (#9). The chamber mimics the reduced air pressure of high altitudes and stimulates the production of red blood cells. This enables an athlete training at sea level to gain the same fitness advantage as an athlete living at high altitude. If this chamber is used correctly (six to eight hours a day for two to three weeks) the hemoglobin concentration can be boosted by more than 23%. Because the High Altitude Bed ® is legal, safe and natural; this procedure of red blood cell enhancement is called Holistic Blood Doping (#3).
Conclusion
At the present time blood doping is a controversial issue. With the new advances in science and sports medicine, this will probably be a dilemma for years to come. Many present and future athletes will have to use their best judgment when this procedure becomes an issue in their lives. Blood doping is illegal but is also undetectable. The potential risks of such a procedure seem to outweigh any potential benefits, above and beyond the ethical issues involved (#12). If a distinct advantage is needed in endurance events, altitude training and the altitude sleep chamber pose far fewer risks and are currently safe and legal. And, if all else fails, hard work and determination still count for something.
References
Brien Anthony J, Simon Toby L: The Effects of Red Blood Cell Infusion on 10- Km Race Time. JAMA 1987; 257:20:2761-2765.
Catlin Don H, Murray Thomas H: Performance-Enhancing Drugs, Fair Competition, and Olympic Sport. JAMA 1996; 276:3:231-237.
"Effects of Blood Doping and Gamow’s High Altitude Bed." Blood Doping. http://spot.colorado.edu/~gamow/doping.html (9 Mar. 1997).
Ghaphery Nick A: Performance-Enhancing Drugs. The Orthopedic Clinics of North America 1995; 26:3:433-442.
Gledhill Norman: Blood Doping and Related Issues: a brief review. Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise 1982; 14:3:183-189.
"Killer drug should be tackled now, say’s expert." Blood Doping. http://www3.nando.net/newsroom/sports/oth/1996/oth/mor/feat/archive/031296/mor44236.html (9 Mar. 1997).
McArdle William D, Katch Frank I, Katch Victor L: Exercise Physiology; Energy, Nutrition, and Human Performance. Second Edition: Lea and Febiger Copyright 1986; Philadelphia, PA. p.409-411.
Mirkin Gabe. "New Tests to Detect EPO Use." Blood Doping. http://www.wdn.com/mirkin/fc51.html (9 Mar. 1997).
"Prof’s Invention to Train Athletes While They Sleep." Blood Doping. http://spot.colorado.edu./~gamow/bedpr.html (9 Mar. 1997).
Smith Daniel A, Perry Paul J: The efficacy of Ergogenic Agents in Athletic Competition; Part II: Other Performance-Enhancing Agents. The Annals of Pharmacotherapy 1992; 26:5:653-658.
Wadler Gary I: Drug Use Update. The Medical Clinics of North America 1994; 78:2:439-455.
Wilmore Jack H, Costill David L: Training for Sport and Activity; The Physiological Basis of the Conditioning Process. Third Edition: Wm. C. Brown Publishers Copyright 1988; Dubuque, IA. p. 255-257.
LivinLarger
New member
Yup
Brickgirl, you really know your stuff
I believe Equipoise raises red blood cell count also.
PumpinIronInTn
New member
Try Injectable b-12 and Q-10 tablets Im serious it works
even creatine helps.
even creatine helps.
W
WARBIRDWS6
Guest
damn i'm on anadrol/carao/EQ right now. i should have lotsa red blood cellage. 
C
Counterstrike
Guest
bullshit it doesnt increase endurance (RBC)valerie said:
SofaGeorge
New member
valerie said:
Carao has definitely been the big endurance enhancer for me... and this is born out by most of the feedback I've gotten from other users.
Animal studies show it increasing RBC by 130%... and some of the bike racers using it are likening it to blood doping in effect.
Do a SEARCH on carao. Fonz posted some of the best scientific studies in translation.
Blood doping? EPO? Anadrol?
Does anyone realize that iron increase red blood count?
Fuck, you don't need morphine for a headache folks. I can't believe some of the ridiculous advice I'm reading here.
And if Carao increases RBC by 130% I'd be VERY concerned. That high of a RBC can lead to stroke.
Does anyone realize that iron increase red blood count?
Fuck, you don't need morphine for a headache folks. I can't believe some of the ridiculous advice I'm reading here.
And if Carao increases RBC by 130% I'd be VERY concerned. That high of a RBC can lead to stroke.
sk: No offense bro but your statement is idiotic.
Why the fuck does he have to raise RBC to the degree that EPO will bring it? Anyone can cure a low RBC with a couple of steak dinners. NOT TO MENTION, this guy doesn't even know if his RBC is low!!!! Everybody is guessing.
The reason I seem to say that I see ridiculous advice so often is because I see ridiculous advice so often.
You have clueless people using drugs without knowing what they're doing, asking questions that are answered by people who don't know what they're talking about.
I'm sorry if I'm not as cordial as you would like. But when a child is about to stick his hand in a fire you don't say "Excuse me young man, but I believe you might want to reconsider your decision in this matter due to the possible reprecusions that may ensue." You say "STOP!"
Why the fuck does he have to raise RBC to the degree that EPO will bring it? Anyone can cure a low RBC with a couple of steak dinners. NOT TO MENTION, this guy doesn't even know if his RBC is low!!!! Everybody is guessing.
The reason I seem to say that I see ridiculous advice so often is because I see ridiculous advice so often.
You have clueless people using drugs without knowing what they're doing, asking questions that are answered by people who don't know what they're talking about.
I'm sorry if I'm not as cordial as you would like. But when a child is about to stick his hand in a fire you don't say "Excuse me young man, but I believe you might want to reconsider your decision in this matter due to the possible reprecusions that may ensue." You say "STOP!"
C
Counterstrike
Guest
so nelson people should stay away from EQ or they will have the same problems? since its the closest to EPO even test increases RBC right? so don't juice at all unless we take proper precautions? are you saying we need more iron or less? just askign i'm lost to this kind of shit
W
WARBIRDWS6
Guest
Counterstrike said:
no,
, increasing red blood cell count with non-harsh compunds like EQ and carao and b-vitamins and iron, and even anadrol (toxic stuff though).....is a good thing, and beneficial.
C
Counterstrike
Guest
doesn't seem that montana feels the same way
W
WARBIRDWS6
Guest
Counterstrike said:
well then i guess he is mildly retarded. i don't care if he wrote a book and i didn't, i have taken b-vites, b-12, iron, anadrol and now EQ and have no problems arising in over a decade as far as my red blood cell count. lol. i HOPE he means raising it to dangerous levels with dangerous compounds is the problem. but if not, then listen to who you choose.
C
Counterstrike
Guest
hey warbird of all this products which one has really been more effective for endurance as far as not getting winded out (tired) for jogging long distance like 3 -5 miles and improving the times(speed)? and which one is best to keep your gains on the endurance side of the house
W
WARBIRDWS6
Guest
Counterstrike said:
i'm a bad one to aks about that, not much of an edurance athelete. i take all these things to make my muscles bigger and to get stronger etc for bodybuilding. but anadrol is def a no-no for jogging,
. iron/b-complex with extra b-12 and maybe try some carao. pretty cheap combo that should help. maybe some edurance atheletes can put their .02 cents in here.
Mildly retarded? Then I guess that makes Warbird a full fledged card carrying cretin.
Look...one of the biggest concerns of anyone juicing is RBC and platlet count. All roids increse them and if they get too high the blood thickens and WHAMP! -- it can't pass through the arteries.
When Warbird says things like increased RBC with non harsh compounds is a good thing, he's talking out of his ass. Even excessive iron supplemntation can lead to a heart attack. You must have the right balance. The same goes for potassium. Too much or too little can effect the heart.
You're asking for medical advice before you even know what you should be asking and then people give medical advice when they haven't a clue as to how misinformed they are. Get your blood checked before making presumtions and don't go on message boards asking for information that may wind up killing you.
Look...one of the biggest concerns of anyone juicing is RBC and platlet count. All roids increse them and if they get too high the blood thickens and WHAMP! -- it can't pass through the arteries.
When Warbird says things like increased RBC with non harsh compounds is a good thing, he's talking out of his ass. Even excessive iron supplemntation can lead to a heart attack. You must have the right balance. The same goes for potassium. Too much or too little can effect the heart.
You're asking for medical advice before you even know what you should be asking and then people give medical advice when they haven't a clue as to how misinformed they are. Get your blood checked before making presumtions and don't go on message boards asking for information that may wind up killing you.
R
ryker77
Guest
Just how much anadrol would be needed to increase the red blood cells and how often?
I've got alot of anadrol but my body doesn't like the estrogen realted sides from oral androgens..
I've got alot of anadrol but my body doesn't like the estrogen realted sides from oral androgens..
W
WARBIRDWS6
Guest
Nelson Montana said:
last time i cut myself i bled rather healthely thank you.
nice of you to be concerned. this is a forum for opinions and information, if someone wants to know how to increase RBC then we tell them how to do it in the least dangerous way. if they want to do it,then so be it. i doubt too much iron ever killed anyone, but i'm sure if it did you may have an article to post on it. 
Nelson Montana said:
No chance of that happening Nelson.
Blood is made out of solid components and liquid components.
Normal blood hematocrit is between 40-45.
That btw is a 40-45% of SOLID blood plasma components.
AAS will only raise the hematocrit level to 50-55(If that).
(Hematocrit is directly correlated with BP. A hemo of 50 is around a BP of 150(systolic))
(As long as the subject is healthy and he doesn't have a history of high BP)
The only substance that can increase your Hematocrit to very dangerous levels(Hematocrit of 60 or so) is EPO. Period.
At that level, the blood coagulates inside the arteries and you get an arterial blockage.
Very, very rare. And to my knowledge has only happenned to people who were being idiotic with their dosages.
Iron won't do beans for RBC. Zero.
Fonz
Fonz, With all due respect bro, you're off on this one.
THe production of red blood corpuscles is impossible without iron. Iron deficiency leads to anemia -- which incidentally is rare these days. Iron supplementation will quickly cure anemia. (But not sickle cell anemia )
Hemoticrit eleveation is does related. In case you haven't noticed, some guys take some hefty dosages here
Since steroids increase blood volume, and cause water retention, increased BP may ensue. To say that the only risk to arterial blockage is through the use of EPO is not an accurate statement. Someone on a high meat diet along with iron supplements in various forms can ingest up to 200mgs of iron daily -- way over the RDA. Add a couple of Anadrol, and things start getting precareous. If the guy is feeling lazy and he needs advice and some says "Hey! You need more iron!" That isn't just an opnion. That's irresponsible advice. It may even turn deadly.
I don't want to be the "gloom and doom" guy here. But there are realities to the use of drugs. If they're ignored, as I see so often, it only diminishes the chances of steroids becoming decriminalized -- a seperate issue perhaps, but one with which I'm concerned. The argument some of the fools on this board use is akin to someone who wants to legalize pot by shouting ""I smoke six joints every hour of every day and I'm fine!"
I'll admit. reading statements like "I cut myself and bled just fine" and "No one dies from excess iron" are so embarising it makes me want to not bother posting anymore. But I know there are too many people who truly want to educate themselves and I guess it's better to keep an intelligent dialouge going that to concede to stupidity.
THe production of red blood corpuscles is impossible without iron. Iron deficiency leads to anemia -- which incidentally is rare these days. Iron supplementation will quickly cure anemia. (But not sickle cell anemia )
Hemoticrit eleveation is does related. In case you haven't noticed, some guys take some hefty dosages here
Since steroids increase blood volume, and cause water retention, increased BP may ensue. To say that the only risk to arterial blockage is through the use of EPO is not an accurate statement. Someone on a high meat diet along with iron supplements in various forms can ingest up to 200mgs of iron daily -- way over the RDA. Add a couple of Anadrol, and things start getting precareous. If the guy is feeling lazy and he needs advice and some says "Hey! You need more iron!" That isn't just an opnion. That's irresponsible advice. It may even turn deadly.
I don't want to be the "gloom and doom" guy here. But there are realities to the use of drugs. If they're ignored, as I see so often, it only diminishes the chances of steroids becoming decriminalized -- a seperate issue perhaps, but one with which I'm concerned. The argument some of the fools on this board use is akin to someone who wants to legalize pot by shouting ""I smoke six joints every hour of every day and I'm fine!"
I'll admit. reading statements like "I cut myself and bled just fine" and "No one dies from excess iron" are so embarising it makes me want to not bother posting anymore. But I know there are too many people who truly want to educate themselves and I guess it's better to keep an intelligent dialouge going that to concede to stupidity.
On the contrary, too much iron can and does kill people, its a condition called hemochromatosis and it destroys the liver for one.WARBIRDWS6 said:i doubt too much iron ever killed anyone, but i'm sure if it did you may have an article to post on it.
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Frackal
Guest
Counterstrike said:
It most certainly does, to a great degree
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Frackal
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Nelson would you suggest using an aspirin per day to thin the blood as a safety precaution?
Frackel: Not a bad idea but Viamin E might work just as well. It also competes with iron absorbtion. Many herbs thin the blood too. Apple Pectin is good for keeping the arteries clear.
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WARBIRDWS6
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'Zyglamail said:
i figured you couldn't resist to "prove me wrong" with some unknown condition that affects probably .000000001% of the population. but we will let you be right and say iron is dangerous. i'll take it when necessary though, thanks anyway.
BTW: tripping over the next door neighbors kid trike almost killed me, but i wouldn't post about it on the EF board as a big problem to be worried about, lol.
Actually, it is estimated that over 35 million Americans unknowingly carry one or both of the HFE mutations that are the major risk factors for hereditary hemochromatosis. But, given your normal rationailization for "proving" things I guess that would explain why you think those affected would number ".000000001% of the population". After all, you dont have it so no one else can eitherWARBIRDWS6 said:'
i figured you couldn't resist to "prove me wrong" with some unknown condition that affects probably .000000001% of the population. but we will let you be right and say iron is dangerous. i'll take it when necessary though, thanks anyway.
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I was simply trying to dispel the myth that iron is not totally harmless. Excess iron can put massive stress on the liver, something a person probably doesnt want to do on cycle. If the guy is always winded and suffering from anemia or something perhaps he should see a doc for some blood work instead of listening to all the wives tales posted here.Baxter said:
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