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If your using L-dex you better get your blood work done ASAP

  • Thread starter Thread starter ryker77
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ryker77

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Ok I'll start with a breif intro. 5'9" 185lbs(down from 205 due to a hernia op) early 20's. Four previous cycles 3 with tren. This was the first time with deca.

June 30 400mgs Ttokkyo cyp 300mgs Ttokkyo Deca
May 03 200mgs cyp and started L-dex 5drops ED
May 07 200mgs cyp 300mgs Deca
May 10 200mgs cyp
May 14 200mgs cyp 300mgs Deca
May 17 200mgs cyp
May 21 200mgs cyp 300mgs Deca
May 24 175mgs all that was left in the vial cyp
May 28 200mgs cyp 300mgs Deca


June 01 had complete blood work done. My HGB was 17.2 normal 14.0-17.0mg/dl
CL was 98 normal 99-109mmol/L
Glucose was 68 normal 70-109mg/dl
Alk phos was 137 normal 50-136u/l
Triglyycerides 236 normal 30-200 mg/dl But this is down from 400 at the end of a tren cycle. The doctor was shitting when he saw how high it was....
HDL 24 normal 32-72 mg/dl I'm trying to bring this up any ideals?
Chol/HDL ratio 4.92 which puts me at 2x the risk for heart probs

The importants parts now..
Progesterone >0.4 normal is 0.03-0.60ng/ml which shows that in my body I can safley handle 300mgs per week.
Testosterorne free 101.1 normal is 12.4-40.0pg.ml
Testosterone total 2091 normal is 262-1593ng/dl

The bad part...

Estrogen 723.2 Normal for an adult male is 40.0-115.0pg/ml WTF:mad: :confused:
I can only think of two things--- I have bogus L-dex. Which probably isn't so. Or that amridex in an liquid from isn't being delivered to the blood stream in an effective way. 5 drops from and 18 gauge pin is 1/8 to 1/4ml or .25mgs to .5mgs. So I would think that .5mgs ED is enough to handle 400mgs of cyp per week.

Any ideals????????????

I'm goining to increase the l-dex to 7 drops on an empty stomach ED and have my estrogen rechecked on the 1st. I'll keep you'll posted.
 
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Well you must have bad liquidex because suspended in liquid or a tab form will make no difference! It has tested out at what it is said to be!

Also how many guys do you know that get bloat or side effects (gyno) while on liquidex?
 
LOL,doesn't sound like 5 drops cut it bro.You may have some very aggressive aromitase production that may require slightly higher amounts than most of us are accustomed to for anti-aromatic compounds.Continue taking the L-dex and get your bloodwork re-ran as scheduled.
 
.5mg wouldn't do shit for me with even 250 mg week of test. It depends on the person. Also, maybe your deca wasn't really deca. Just a thought. Or, you may have gotten fake l-dex.
 
No clomid or nolvadex at the time of testing. Nor was I taking any ZMA or pro hormones.

Yes it was a reliable source..... Or at least a reliable MOD gave me his addy.

And I'm pretty sure my deca is deca since its made by Ttokkyo and the box and labe all mathes. Plus the increase in pregesterone.

I had to stop taking l-dex for the last 15 days and used nolvadex instead 20mgs ED. My nipples did appear to be puffy and somewhat sore if touched. But I'm back on l-dex now.


Thanks for the quick reply, Huck..
 
"No the deca is fine. My progesterone levels are still in the normal range."


deca does not convert to progesterone, it is a progestin, and thus has activity at the p receptor. just wanted to clear that up. deca will convert to E to a degree, and not through the standard aromatase pathway....that might be the cause of elevation.

FYI .5mg of real pharmacutical grade armidex isn't even enough for me on 500mg test. I had to use at least 1mg to get anything off it. letrozole works much better for me.
 
Hugh Gellatts thanks for clearing up the progesterone/deca issue. I allways thought that Deca and tren converted in to progesterone. I guess I need to do some more research.


As for all you guys saying that so&so dose at #mds of test worked or didn't work. Are you basing your thoughts on looks and fellings or ACTUAL real blood work??? Cause I feel like the 5 drops ED worked for me--- till I had the blood work done. I wish I had taken a blood test without the use of L-dex just to see how high the Estrogen would be while on AS.
 
Ryker77 there is only one guy for liquidex these days. Is that who you got it from?:D
 
Golfer18 said:
Ryker77 there is only one guy for liquidex these days. Is that who you got it from?:D
Click to expand...

Probably.. He has the real fast service.
 
macrophage69alpha said:
NOTE-- an interesting side effect of "effective" aromatase use is..... high cholesterol
Click to expand...


Hmm......

Well three months ago post cycle I had my cholestrol checked and it was 199. I don't think I was usind L-dex at that time cause I use a calender to keep track of me gear useage and I hadn't used L-dex for over 6 weeks. With no gear for 8 weeks.
So my cholestrol is roughly the same with or without L-dex.:confused: :confused:

I'll have my blood drawn on the 1st and we will see my L-dex is real or not. If my estrogen is still high I'll assume its fake. To make sure I'll use 2mgs ED for a week and have my estrogen rechecked. This will surely show if L-dex is effective/real.
 
cardio will bring your HDL levels up. I got my blood work done after my competition, which included insane amounts of cardio and my HDL count was 94, the doc was amazed.
 
My estrogen was higher than normal on a cycle from a few years back. 1mg of arimidex a day along with 40mgs. d-bol a day, 500mgs. test a week, 400mgs deca a week. estrgen went back to normal after i dropped the d-bol.

I think this proves you have to experiment with doses.

As for your HDL, try niacin 500mgs a day. Don't worry about the flushed hot flash when on niacin. Just an ennoying side effect.
 
ryker77 said:


Is that based on blood work or just by the way you felt?
Click to expand...

I was running .5mg/ED with a 500mg/sust, 300mg/decca, 30mg/dbol cycle and starting getting gyno in week 3. I bumped it up to 1mg/ED along with 40mg/ED of Nolvadex and it supsided. I experimented going back down to .5mg/ED and they started to itch again. I honestly believe if someone is prone to gyno then they need to run at least 1mg/ED or a tab of Femara/ED.
 
Raise that HDL with:

Policosanol Helps Reduce High Cholesterol

In a six-month study, 10 mg per day of policosanol reduced total cholesterol by 16% and LDL cholesterol by 24%, and increased HDL cholesterol by 29%. Several other studies have compared policosanol with some of the conventional medications used for lowering cholesterol and the results have shown policosanol in the amount of 5 to 20 mg per day to be more effective than lovastatin (Mevacor®), pravastatin (Pravachol®), and simvastatin (Zocor®), with fewer reported side effects. While some prescription drugs used to lower cholesterol may cause liver and muscle problems in rare instances, people taking policosanol have not suffered any serious side effects.

http://www.newhope.com/news.cfm?news=1161

It's an OTC supp
 
Had my blood drawn on the 1st. The results will be back in two days.
I'll post the results..
BTW I only increased the Ldex to 7 drops which is 1/4ml or 1mg EveryDay
 
Can you guys help me understand something??
It's my understanding that L-dex attaches itself to the A2 receptors in order to prevent estrogen from binding to those receptors and causing side effects like gyno. If that's the case, wouldn't it be possible to have elevated estrogen levels in the bloodstream due to aromitization of test without experiencing estrogen related sides????

I would REALLY appreciate knowing if I'm wrong on this one, because I'm nearing my first cycle. I want mass, not tits.

I'm also a little concerned about people questioning the L-dex that's out there -- I got mine from the same person most of you guys got yours from.....

This board and is the best by far. You guys rule.
 
"It's my understanding that L-dex attaches itself to the A2 receptors in order to prevent estrogen from binding to those receptors and causing side effects like gyno. If that's the case, wouldn't it be possible to have elevated estrogen levels in the bloodstream due to aromitization of test without experiencing estrogen related sides????"


you are thinking of clomid. that is the way clomid, and nolva (though nolva also helps by lowering igf1) works. armidex, letrozole and aromasin work by binding to the aromatase enzyme that converts test to estrogen. they have no activity at the estrogen receptor itself.
 
estrogens(including the mixed agonist/antagonists clomid and nolva) bind to
ERalpha
ERbeta
and perhaps other sub types

the A2 is an adrenoceptor, which E does bind to and is involved in the regulation of
the A2 is involved in the release(perhaps more importantly the inhibition of the release) of Norepinephrine
 
Hugh Gellatts said:
"No the deca is fine. My progesterone levels are still in the normal range."


deca does not convert to progesterone, it is a progestin, and thus has activity at the p receptor. just wanted to clear that up. deca will convert to E to a degree, and not through the standard aromatase pathway....that might be the cause of elevation.

FYI .5mg of real pharmacutical grade armidex isn't even enough for me on 500mg test. I had to use at least 1mg to get anything off it. letrozole works much better for me.
Click to expand...

Finally, someone gives correct info. Karma bro ...

NFG
 
Outside of the excellent points made by Huge Gellats and MACRO,Ryker,your math is way off.

1mg=12 drops,not 7
.5mg=6 drops
.25mg=3 drops

Your L-dex dosage was WAY too low IMO,but as Huge pointed out,your E up-regulation may be of a non-aromatic nature caused by the deca.
 
HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex said:
Outside of the excellent points made by Huge Gellats and MACRO,Ryker,your math is way off.

1mg=12 drops,not 7
.5mg=6 drops
.25mg=3 drops

Your L-dex dosage was WAY too low IMO,but as Huge pointed out,your E up-regulation may be of a non-aromatic nature caused by the deca.
Click to expand...

Ok my my math might be wrong. But my VISION is not. I can hold the pin upright at 2.5cc. Next I squirt 7 drops of Ldex into my mouth and when Im done the pin is now at 2.25cc. The next day I do the same routine and the pin is now at an even 2cc.

So that 4mg per 1ml
2mg per 0.5ml
1mg per 0.25ml
I'm not sure were or how you've got that 12 drops per 1mg. But with and 18 gauge pin and a 3cc B-D sryinge for me is 7 drops per 1mg.
:confused: Because I am talking to " the man" I just took 12 drops of Ldex. The pin started at 2cc and 12 drops later its at 1.5cc.

Now heres the question. There are two different estrogen blood test to take. Just like testosterone theres free and total amounts. Free is whats us meatheads need and the total doesn't really matter. I wonder which blood test for estrogen would show the effectiveness of L-dex.
 
Results are in

Ok the first estrogen was taken on 06/01 which was 4 week into a deca/cyp cycle. Deca at 300mgs per week and cyp 200mgs 2x per week. With a front load of cyp on day one of 400mgs. L-dex was taken ED 5 drops. My lab results were total serum estrogen 723.2 pg/ml normal range is 40-115.0pg/ml Which is 608pg/ml higher than normal. Or 525% higher than normal. :confused: My testosterone total levels were only 2091ng/dl Normal range is 262-1593ng/dl. Which is 498ng/dl higher than normal or 131% higher. Now I have 131% increase in Testosterone and L-dex is SUPPOSED to prevent the armotise, right? Yet my estrogen is 525% higher. Hell I might as well be taking pure estrogen.. OK enough bitching.

From June 01 till the 14th I couldn't take any AS or L-dex. So on the May31 was my last shot of 200mgs of cyp and my last 5 drops of L-dex was taking the moring of the 1st. For the next 14 days I used 20mgs of nolva ED. On June 15th I returned to my cycle of 200mgs cyp of 300mgs deca with 7 drops of L-dex. I also increased my green tea intake. 16 days later I had my estrogen rechecked. 426.4pg/ml :confused: :confused: :bawling: WTF I suppose this shows that a slight increase in L-dex (just two more drops) works. But I'm still 400% higher than normal. I've not noticed any difference in my body.

What next.?! I wish other people had their blood tested so that we could get an ideal of what happens to our estrogen levels. If any one is in the Atlanta area shoot me an email. In the mean time I started taking ZMA before bed. And will leave the L-dex at 7 drops ED. I reckon that a few years ago people survived without L-dex so I can survive with 7drops ED.:fro:
 
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In two weeks the deca will be out of my system and I'll be bridging with 200mgs cyp once per week along with 7 drops ED of L-dex. I'll go ahead and get my estrogen levels checked at that time. They should be alot lower without the deca and only 200mgs cyp. If I have the extra cash I'll get my testosterone checked as well.
 
what brand of cypionate are you taking?
what brand of Nandrolone?

there is the possibility they may contain estrogen.. sad but true..

or you may need much higher amounts of arimidex to achieve suppression...

OR your arimidex may be underdosed...
 
Always Ttokkyo.
Lot071 exp jul03 on the deca
Lot041 exp May03 on the cyp
 
Funny you mentioned this because I have lowered my overall dose of sus just 2 weeks ago from 750mg to 500mg a week. This week im only gonna take 250mg. Don't wanna waste the juice since im recovering from an elbow problem. Anyway I've actually lowered my overall dose of liquidex as well and have noticed that I've lost a considerable amount of water bloat. I haven't worked out in a bit and im looking much more cut with a regular diet still. I definately notice a good difference though taking it because at one point I had decided to lower my dose for a few days just to see how that would be and I became alot more bloated relatively fast. Also I am not one of those estrogen sensitive people or progesterone sensitive as well which leads me to believe the liquidex does help of course, but with a good amount of extra test being introduced into the body it may not be able to deal with it so efficiently. You could just up the dose if you are really sensitive or are using more test though or switch to femara maybe as I have heard it kicks arimidex's ass on a mg for mg basis. Still this is based on opinion as I have heard others say arimidex was better as well.
 
I think the best cost effective method is to take 1mg l-dex ED along with 10-20mgs of Nolva. This way you stop it and what you don't stop you block it. It would be alot cheaper than taking 2mg od L-dex everyday. At that dose a vial would only last 40days. 40days at $200 is alot on top of the other stuff.
 
Update

Ok on the 5th I took 300mgs cyp and 400mgs deca. On the 9th 200mgs cyp starting the bridge at 200mgs E7D. The 12th was my last shot of deca at 100mgs. On the 15th and the 19th I took 40mgs Nolvadex and on the 16th I took 50mgs clomid (for a bigger load that night!!). Still taking the L-dex at 7 drops every day.
Had my blood checked on the evening of the 19th. Estradiol 20.69pg/ml and my estrogen is 301.4 pg/ml.

Now I'm sure that the some/most of the deca is still in my system but the level of cyp was cut in half over two weeks ago. Yet my Estrogen level is still three times the high normal level. And with only have taken 40mgs of nolvadex twice shouldn't effect the test that much.

The good new is that my estradiol was well within the normal range (10-65pg/ml). And from what I understand this is what the L-dex works to keep under control.
Perhaps the deca converts to estrogen in a way that L-dex can't control?.?.?

I wish I had had my estradiol checked before.

None the less. I'm going to help everybody learn by continuing to have my blood estrogen and estradiol checked. ( Karma!) I'll have it checked before I start my tren/enanthate cycle. Then during the cycle I'll have it done three times. Once with only l-dex. Once with l-dex and clomid. And one more time with l-dex and nolvadex. Unfortunately I won't have the extra cash to have me testosterone levels checked.
 
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