I think Anti-E's caused or contributed to my gyno...

[Anthony Starks]

My cycle three months ago was 10 weeks var at 45mg ed. No gyno, or even testicular atrophy. PCT was 30 days of Nolva at 60mg, towards the end I had very minor gyno issues, mostly just hard lumps under each nipple that were invisable from view.

Went off Nolve for a week, and gyno symptoms got only a tiny bit better.

Went back on Nolva for another 30 days and the gyno got a little worse.

Took a week off and saw minor regression of the gyno.

Went on Femera 2.5mg ed for the last two weeks and the gyno is by far the worst it has ever been, nipples are swollen, tender, and protruding slightly. For the first time in the whole ordeal, its noticable from the outside if you know what to look for.

Mind you, this is about three months now since my last tab of ANAVAR.

Couldn't the anti-e's be throwing off my HTPA balance and actually causing the gyno? Because if its not that I'm really stumped.

 

[big_boy_1]

My cycle three months ago was 10 weeks var at 45mg ed. No gyno, or even testicular atrophy. PCT was 30 days of Nolva at 60mg, towards the end I had very minor gyno issues, mostly just hard lumps under each nipple that were invisable from view.

Went off Nolve for a week, and gyno symptoms got only a tiny bit better.

Went back on Nolva for another 30 days and the gyno got a little worse.

Took a week off and saw minor regression of the gyno.

Went on Adex 2.5mg ed for the last two weeks and the gyno is by far the worst it has ever been, nipples are swollen, tender, and protruding slightly. For the first time in the whole ordeal, its noticable from the outside if you know what to look for.

Mind you, this is about three months now since my last tab of ANAVAR.

Couldn't the anti-e's be throwing off my HTPA balance and actually causing the gyno? Because if its not that I'm really stumped.

Very strange

The only explanation could be a rebound effect.

 

[Zuperman]

bump for you bro, Where is Macro and X?

 

[Mr.X]

It's possible that your body is in a hormonal imbalance, so that's causing the problem. I would stop the nolva for now, and jump on some letrozole - I would assume you need something stronger then arimidex for your gyno.

 

[blacksabbath1987]

My cycle three months ago was 10 weeks var at 45mg ed. No gyno, or even testicular atrophy. PCT was 30 days of Nolva at 60mg, towards the end I had very minor gyno issues, mostly just hard lumps under each nipple that were invisable from view.

Went off Nolve for a week, and gyno symptoms got only a tiny bit better.

Went back on Nolva for another 30 days and the gyno got a little worse.

Took a week off and saw minor regression of the gyno.

Went on Adex 2.5mg ed for the last two weeks and the gyno is by far the worst it has ever been, nipples are swollen, tender, and protruding slightly. For the first time in the whole ordeal, its noticable from the outside if you know what to look for.

Mind you, this is about three months now since my last tab of ANAVAR.

Couldn't the anti-e's be throwing off my HTPA balance and actually causing the gyno? Because if its not that I'm really stumped.

you did not need nolva/ running anavar anyway. this probably lowered your natural test even more.i am not a expert but some bros may be able to help.

 

[Anthony Starks]

you did not need nolva/ running anavar anyway. this probably lowered your natural test even more.i am not a expert but some bros may be able to help.

Nolva was for PCT to get natural test levels back.

 

[Anthony Starks]

It's possible that your body is in a hormonal imbalance, so that's causing the problem. I would stop the nolva for now, and jump on some letrozole - I would assume you need something stronger then arimidex for your gyno.

Sorry, that was a typo - the 2.5mg ED at the end was Letro not Adex. There is no question that it is making things a lot worse though - I'm stopping everything for now.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

you still have nolva in high amounts in your system, you basically ran 60mg nolva for 60 days. NOlva has half life of 12-14 days or more with extended use (over 3 weeks). It take 3 half lives to get significant reduction in blood levels (90+%)

sounds like you may have a progestin/prolactin issue, which nolva would aggravate. Stay off the nolva. you should use letro at this point.

you may also have a thryoid or GH issue or even a leydig cell tumor.

highly reccomend getting bloodwork done ASAP.

another possibility is that the tamox was poorly synthesized and estrogenic by products were produced. (an AI would do nothing for this) are you using Pharma or Research/UG?

 

[UA_Iron]

I think nolvadex is overrated from personal experience.

 

[Mr.X]

Sorry, that was a typo - the 2.5mg ED at the end was Letro not Adex. There is no question that it is making things a lot worse though - I'm stopping everything for now.

That's a case I've never heard of before, but it is possible that the short term use has not helped you. I would not stop everything cold turkey, taper off the letrozole at 1.25mgs ED for a few days then you can stop.

Once you stop anti-Es, see how the gyno is doing. IMO, your gyno would have gotten better if you stuck to your gyno treatement - not much can be done in 2 weeks. My advice would be to stay on letro.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

Sorry, that was a typo - the 2.5mg ED at the end was Letro not Adex. There is no question that it is making things a lot worse though - I'm stopping everything for now.

what kind? unfortunately there is bunk research and UG letro out there

 

[Mr.X]

I think nolvadex is overrated from personal experience.

I agree, letrozole is far superior for gyno treatment.

 

[jagerbombme]

Nolva was for PCT to get natural test levels back.

from what i've read, anavar doesn't affect your natty test levels. some guys say you should do something to safeguard. i don't know. from what i've read about anavar though, if i ran it i wouldn't worry about taking anything, it's not supposed to affect your testes. if i noticed a problem, then i would take something.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

I think nolvadex is overrated from personal experience.

have you used pharma tabs, that are properly foil sealed and stored (it both temperature and light sensitive)?

 

[Mr.X]

what kind? unfortunately there is bunk research and UG letro out there

It's more likely the fact that he's been on letro for too short a period of time rather then the type of letro. He needs to stay on longer to help with the gyno.

 

[Mr.X]

have you used pharma tabs, that are properly foil sealed and stored (it both temperature and light sensitive)?

I've used it all - pharm, research etc....nolva is overrated for gyno treatement; letrozole is a much better bang for the buck.

 

[UA_Iron]

have you used pharma tabs, that are properly foil sealed and stored (it both temperature and light sensitive)?

I was gonna say I didnt

but I remembered I went down to TJ one time early on in my AAS career. I couldnt recall if its "better" than the insanely cheap UG stuff out there. Perhaps I'll look at it again.

 

[Anthony Starks]

from what i've read, anavar doesn't affect your natty test levels. some guys say you should do something to safeguard. i don't know. from what i've read about anavar though, if i ran it i wouldn't worry about taking anything, it's not supposed to affect your testes. if i noticed a problem, then i would take something.

Any kind of anabolic you add to your system is going to effect your natural test levels, including var and primo

 

[Anthony Starks]

It's more likely the fact that he's been on letro for too short a period of time rather then the type of letro. He needs to stay on longer to help with the gyno.

Its tough to stay on it when every day I wake up and its a little bit worse. By far the last two weeks it has progressed to most. I have no doubt that letro is an extremely strong anti-e, but it seems like for some reason messing with my levels that way is causing, and not fixing, my gyno

 

[macrophage69alpha]

are you sure that its letro? if its research chem stuff, its not completely uncommon for them to mess up and maybe its finasteride.... just a thought...

 

[Anthony Starks]

are you sure that its letro? if its research chem stuff, its not completely uncommon for them to mess up and maybe its finasteride.... just a thought...

All the more reason to get the hell off it IMO. Unless you have a script, I never feel 100% sure about what I have, but with two different brands of Nolva not working and now Letro not working either, plus that fact I really should not and never have gotten gyno from var, I'm starting to look at other explainations.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

All the more reason to get the hell off it IMO. Unless you have a script, I never feel 100% sure about what I have, but with two different brands of Nolva not working and now Letro not working either, plus that fact I really should not and never have gotten gyno from var, I'm starting to look at other explainations.

details, brands of all the drugs used?

 

[Anthony Starks]

details, brands of all the drugs used?

IP Var - Direct from IP, tested by another board as legit shortly before order, used in two Var only cycles with no gyno and Var-like results prior

IP Nolva - Same as above on all counts except for the lab test, used for first month of PCT

IBE Nolva from about a year ago, still sealed and kept temp controlled and out of light, used for second month on Nolva

IBE Femera two weeks old.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

IBE Nolva from about a year ago, still sealed and kept temp controlled and out of light, used for second month on Nolva

IBE Femera two weeks old.

these are probably the problem, know 2 people that used their femara. According to them it was completely bunk, used one of them to verify... bloated up...

 

[tiggerizme]

you still have nolva in high amounts in your system, you basically ran 60mg nolva for 60 days. NOlva has half life of 12-14 days or more with extended use (over 3 weeks). It take 3 half lives to get significant reduction in blood levels (90+%)

sounds like you may have a progestin/prolactin issue, which nolva would aggravate. Stay off the nolva. you should use letro at this point.

you may also have a thryoid or GH issue or even a leydig cell tumor.

highly reccomend getting bloodwork done ASAP.

another possibility is that the tamox was poorly synthesized and estrogenic by products were produced. (an AI would do nothing for this) are you using Pharma or Research/UG?

Ny thoughts exactly. Prolactin issues.

 

[Anthony Starks]

Ny thoughts exactly. Prolactin issues.

from...?

 

[jacshelb]

from...?

Well, you did get some suppresion of your natural test from using the var, I can guarentee that. It may not be much, but it could be enough. Then, as I understand it (and correct me if I'm wrong someone) your body will try to compensate immediately by utilizing the estrogen that is in your system (perhaps producing more? converting more?) while your nads recover. In the meantime, you are taking pretty high dose of nolva which upregulates prolactin receptors (right?). And, while you may not have gotten much true "estrogen" gyno, your body likely put to use what prolactin it had available, while the nolva actually did little to stop the gyno.

And, as has been said, Nolva can stay in your system and effect you for a long time. I would take Mr.X's advice and stay off the nolva but continue the letro and see what happens. At the worst, purchase some letro from a more reputable place and try a low dose such as 1.25 and see what happens. Then, what do you have to lose?

Just my two cents. Good luck! (as I am about in the same boat right now...)


Jacob

 

[Anthony Starks]

Well, you did get some suppresion of your natural test from using the var, I can guarentee that. It may not be much, but it could be enough. Then, as I understand it (and correct me if I'm wrong someone) your body will try to compensate immediately by utilizing the estrogen that is in your system (perhaps producing more? converting more?) while your nads recover. In the meantime, you are taking pretty high dose of nolva which upregulates prolactin receptors (right?). And, while you may not have gotten much true "estrogen" gyno, your body likely put to use what prolactin it had available, while the nolva actually did little to stop the gyno.

And, as has been said, Nolva can stay in your system and effect you for a long time. I would take Mr.X's advice and stay off the nolva but continue the letro and see what happens. At the worst, purchase some letro from a more reputable place and try a low dose such as 1.25 and see what happens. Then, what do you have to lose?

Just my two cents. Good luck! (as I am about in the same boat right now...)


Jacob

I think I'm going to go clean for a couple weeks and see how things go. If it really is just prolactin, then it should go away without the Nolva. I've got my fingers crossed at least, its never going to be bad enough to need surgery, but I don't want to always have it in the back of my mind no matter how cut I get.

 

[MILLENNIUM]

Dude you took wayy too much Nolva for only 45mg of Var e/d it barely affects your natural test levels at all. It works by enhancing creatine synthesis in the muscles. Really no need for PCT with it at all but if so it should be at minimum dosages not anywhere near 60mg e/d of Nolva. Anavar is the AAS I have researched most. Spent hours on it. I think the Nolva may have effected the progesterone levels in your system at such a high dose which is resulting in the gyno you are getting. Letro as X said is prob the best way to go but I would be safe and suck it up go see an endocrinologist. Get some bloodwork done bro. Experimenting with different things at different dosages "hoping" to find a cure may just screw you up even more which it sounds like is what's happening already. Be smart go see a doctor!

 

[Anthony Starks]

Dude you took wayy too much Nolva for only 45mg of Var e/d it barely affects your natural test levels at all. It works by enhancing creatine synthesis in the muscles. Really no need for PCT with it at all but if so it should be at minimum dosages not anywhere near 60mg e/d of Nolva. Anavar is the AAS I have researched most. Spent hours on it. I think the Nolva may have effected the progesterone levels in your system at such a high dose which is resulting in the gyno you are getting. Letro as X said is prob the best way to go but I would be safe and suck it up go see an endocrinologist. Get some bloodwork done bro. Experimenting with different things at different dosages "hoping" to find a cure may just screw you up even more which it sounds like is what's happening already. Be smart go see a doctor!

Do you use any PCT with your Var at all? BTW, Its been less than two days clean (2 weeks plus from Nolva) and I already seem less puffy, lets just hope its not wishful thinking.

 

[Anthony Starks]

Quick update - its been about 5 days now anti-e free and the change is amazing. I have the mildest gyno still left, and my guess (and hope) is that it will be 100% gone in a couple of weeks. Thank god!!!

 

[jacshelb]

Good deal! Mine is improving as well. Best of luck on full recovery.


Jacob

 

[Mr.X]

Good deal! Mine is improving as well. Best of luck on full recovery.


Jacob

You running letro ?