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How much VITEX to lower prolactin levels?

LivinLarger

LivinLarger

New member
On a pretty heavy FINA, test cycle. I have heard vitex can help sex drive while on fina by lowering prolactin levels.
Anyone know what an effective dose is?
Thanks
 
I think a good dose if you start to have gyno type symptoms is about a gram/day. If you haven't experienced any problems, I doubt I would go that high.

Maybe try half that? Just experiment to see if you get anything out of it since you aren't using it because of any problems. It's pretty fast acting, so it's not like you would even have to wait a week to see if you are getting the results you want.
 
Someone posted a study that it raised prolactin at low doses, but began to lower prolactin once the dose had reached higher levels (I think 450mg was the number from the study).
 
Trenbolone doesn't effect prolactin level.
Gyno from high prolactin level is as rare as from use of Finasteride. It's just another "trendy" idea, don't sweat over it.
 
panerai said:
Trenbolone doesn't effect prolactin level.
Gyno from high prolactin level is as rare as from use of Finasteride. It's just another "trendy" idea, don't sweat over it.
Click to expand...

disagree. as this is the cause of GHB induced gyno.. which more common than reported

then benefit of taking vitex with tren (barring the prolactin issue which is debatable at this point) is that it does increase natural progesterone WHICH IS GOOD in a system where the only progestin is TREN.. it is likely that the lack of natural progesterone (which is suppressed by tren as well as other AS) is the main cause for trens side effects (sexual and gyno related)
 
Macro, you are confusing me...LivingLarger didn't even mention GHB in his question, do you know something that I don't?
One more thing, do you mean that Trenbolone not effecting prolactin level is debatable? If so, why and by whom?
 
RdStrcklnd said:
GHB raises prolactin, its said to be why the GH increase from GHB does not result in any anabolic effects.
Click to expand...

I'm aware of that. But, what does this information has to do with original question?
 
panerai said:


I'm aware of that. But, what does this information has to do with original question?
Click to expand...

it was not an answer to the original but a caveat to the implication that prolactin induced gyno was an extreme rarity.

issue RE: prolactin and tren is not clear as the amount of info is VERY limited and there is considerable evidence of progesterone/progestin influencing prolactin... (i will pull up a couple of the studies whne I have some time)
 
btw- the prolactin issue may be soemwhat a red herring HERE( or a least a less important issue), but the benefits of vitex are also in its ability to restore NORMAL progesterone levels (offsetting suppresion and PR binding of Tren)
 
Well, prolactine induced gyno is extremely rare, due to use of steroids. GHB is not a steroid, right?
That's why, I brought the analogy with Finasteride.
To make it even more clear, when you said, that prolactin induced gyno is more common then reported...well, sorry, but it doesn't make any sence. Our main source of information, is what's reported. Speculation is not fair, I can say anything also...
I have yet to see a study that shows increase of prolactin level due to trenbolone. On a contrary, there's a study, that shows no effect of trenbolone on prolactine level in male cows(lol, don't know the proper name, bulls, may be?)
Now, be logical, in healthy males, like us, it should take some tremendous amount or effect of something, like Trenbolone or any other steroid (Trenbolone is just a steroid mimiking Testosteron, basically) to increase prolactine level to such a degree when gyno might devellope.
Be serious...
 
Speaking of "trend"...on first page we have at least 4 threads about prolactin. Over the years on the boards, I've heard of only one guy who got gyno from high prolactin level "Fukkenshredded", and even that is not a fact, because he associated the return of gyno symptoms to Fina only cycle, which shows how unaccurate our assumptions are.
The experiment is very simple. Let's make someone who's after long time off is doing Fina only cycle do blood test. Prolactin level will shows.
 
actually there are a number of people that have gotten gyno from GHB-- the reason that I said that it was under reported(here) is because a great number of those who use ghb for recreational purposes are not bodybuilders or on the net for that matter.

and RE: tren and prolactin.. that is the issue.. ONE study in cows, which may or may not translate to humans.. but the issue is ONE study.. where there are a number of studies showing a strong relationship between prolactin and progesterone/progestins.

but agree that it MAY not be prolactin that is the issue with tren, but that vitex MAY help due to its ability to restore natural progesterone.
 
btw- in the case of tren the implications, at least on my part, were that prolactin increase might aggravate the symptoms but that the source was PR related.
 
What is the best place to buy Vitex and what brand...price/ quality wise?
 
I think, it's not prolactin, but ER-binding that contribute to PR-positive gyno.
Of course, it's great to reduce prolactin level right after the cycle, otherwise, IMO, it's not worth to bother.
 
How many studies do you see of ER plus PR binding being the perfect condition for breast cancer? Countless.
As for prolactin...be honest, it's a "trend", something new to talk about...to show off your "knowledge", whatever...
Most things are pretty much very basics, like anything else in our lives.
Good night. :)
 
I think all the prolactin posts right now on the board are my fault, I did a search on bromo and replied to a bunch of the posts.
 
Well, I could fucking care less exactly WHAT is causing the problem with fina and the 19-nortests, but I do know that vitex helps. I am a results kind of guy. Kind of like I could care less how fina does what it does or whether it binds strongly to the AR or not, I like the results.

And bottom line is that vitex has helped with gyno and gyno symptoms for several people I know, including me. Feel free to debate the merits of progesterone vs. prolactin, I just don't want no titties. :)
 
TxLonghorn said:
Well, I could fucking care less exactly WHAT is causing the problem with fina and the 19-nortests, but I do know that vitex helps. I am a results kind of guy. Kind of like I could care less how fina does what it does or whether it binds strongly to the AR or not, I like the results.

And bottom line is that vitex has helped with gyno and gyno symptoms for several people I know, including me. Feel free to debate the merits of progesterone vs. prolactin, I just don't want no titties. :)
Click to expand...

Let me get it straight, you got gyno symptoms on Fina only cycle. You start using Vitex (nothing else) and those symptoms went away, right? Now, you never run Fina without Vitex, correct?
 
I'm trying it out for the nookie

Damn, lots of mixed opinions on this topic!!!
I am not very concerned about the gyno, I seem to be immune:D

I had heard from someone else on a fina cycle that it helped them with sex drive so I figured I'd check it out. Could be in my head, but seems like I find my mind wandering into thoughts of pussy more often than before.;)

I got my capsules from drugstore.com they are running a buy one get one 1/2 price special if anyone wants to try it out for themselves.
 
panerai said:


Let me get it straight, you got gyno symptoms on Fina only cycle. You start using Vitex (nothing else) and those symptoms went away, right? Now, you never run Fina without Vitex, correct?
Click to expand...

Yes. I was on fina only. Started getting symptoms, etc., and they rapidly increased. I took 1mg/liquidex and 100mg/day of winny because I 'knew' the only thing it could be was progesterone, and winny was the only thing I had. Well, a week went by, symptoms worse, now had lumps. Ditched the liquidex, hit the nolvadex at around 60-80mg/day. Kept up the winny. No way was I getting tits. I was getting tits. Dropped the winny and nolvadex and took vitex, and 2-3 days later, I noticed the symptoms were lessened. By the end of 4-6 weeks, the lumps were gone.

I now wonder if I had stayed on the nolvadex when I started the vitex, my results would have been quicker because I might have had some problems with heightened igf-1 levels.

Anyways, I found the cure for me. Since people know I love fina, they always email me with their thoughts/problems on it. Well, lots of fina only guys getting gyno problems. Most had tried the winny and nothing. So, I started seeing if they wouldn't mind trying the vitex. I started getting lots of 'thanks, my tits are gone' replies. In fact, every person that has emailed me I have been able to help reverse their gyno with these two things: vitex and nolvadex.

And again I say, I don't give a fuck what's causing the problem as long as I know the cure. And at least for me and some others, I know the cure.
 
panerai said:
Trenbolone doesn't effect prolactin level.
Gyno from high prolactin level is as rare as from use of Finasteride. It's just another "trendy" idea, don't sweat over it.
Click to expand...


Tren DOES cause lactation.
 
After 3 months of eight weeks of fina my nips got sore, Talked to my doc and got bloodwork done even though they werent sore. My prolactin levels were just under the normal range. He said when they were sore my levels had to be over the range which is over 17.7 for m age.
 
panerai said:
TxL, it's very interesting. What dosage of Fina started your gyno symptoms?
Click to expand...

100mg/day started it. Then dropped it to 75mg, then eod. Then half that eod. Very frustrating.
 
Golfer18 said:
After 3 months of eight weeks of fina my nips got sore, Talked to my doc and got bloodwork done even though they werent sore. My prolactin levels were just under the normal range. He said when they were sore my levels had to be over the range which is over 17.7 for m age.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but you presented yours and your doctor's assumptions, and no evidence.
 
panerai said:


Sorry, but you presented yours and your doctor's assumptions, and no evidence.
Click to expand...


I guess it was the winstrol that caused it:rolleyes: Sorry but your wrong. I think my Doctor knows just a tad bit more than you, not a lot though.:leap:



Thats funny, i guess winstrol now causes Prolactin, Give me a break.
 
Of course, your Doctor knows a lot more then me.
Still, it doesn't mean, that he went out of his way to research Trenbolone and prolactin level.
You neither.
That's my point. Assumptions. You assume, that you have a Doctor, who knows about steroids and, particularly, Trenbolone, and its effect on prolactin level of healthy male bodybuilders, he assumes that he knows what he's talking about.
Tell you the truth, I didn't expect anything different from what you posted in responce to my question...
I don't want to argue, but discuss. When you have facts, come back.
 
I two people are in a room with nothing else and one kills the other, are you saying thats not proof? Did the walls kill him? No, the other person did. In this case Winny does not and will never cause high prolactin levels, that leaves Tren. If that is not hard evidence then what is?
 
Golfer18 said:
After 3 months of eight weeks of fina my nips got sore, Talked to my doc and got bloodwork done even though they werent sore. My prolactin levels were just under the normal range. He said when they were sore my levels had to be over the range which is over 17.7 for m age.
Click to expand...

Present blood work that shows high prolactin level.
 
Golfer18 said:
You want me to scan it? Mine is def. high.
Click to expand...

Well, scanning would bring more credibility to your post. But, it's not the point.
The point is, that Trenbolone has such a short half life, that in 3 months after a 8 week cycle of Trenbolone, there's no way, it would be a cause of high prolactin level, unless, your Doctor desagree.
And, that's my point. "Trend", that's all it is.
 
Get off your pedistol. Take a step down and think. When scientists try to prove something they use the scientific method. Although its not always exactly accurate, it works. In this case everything can be eliminated but fina. Dont worry about my Credibility, i will post the blood work Tommorow. The half life has nothing to do with it if it was a rebound.
 
Golfer18 said:
Get off your pedistol. Take a step down and think. When scientists try to prove something they use the scientific method. Although its not always exactly accurate, it works. In this case everything can be eliminated but fina. Dont worry about my Credibility, i will post the blood work Tommorow. The half life has nothing to do with it if it was a rebound.
Click to expand...

Whatever...
:D
 
panerai said:
I don't want to argue, but discuss. When you have facts, come back.
Click to expand...

I call bullshit. You don't want to discuss, you want to be right. Period.

And it kills you that you aren't.
 
panerai said:


Present blood work that shows high prolactin level.
Click to expand...

Present blood work from everybody who has ever taken trenbolone that shows that trenbolone does not increase prolactin. You can't, because you can't prove a negative.

My god, the fact that I don't personally have evidence that the world is round and the fact that you are starting to sound like a pissheaded schoolgirl does not make the world flat.

I think what you are doing is VERY IRRESPONSIBLE. Goddammit we are talking about trying to help people with gyno and you are arguing semantics. Fuck you that you don't get gyno and obviously don't care. It happens, either deal with it or not but reality says it does and you say it doesn't.

I know I have personally helped a ton of people who would today would be very embarrassed to walk around without a shirt on or be contemplating a $3000 surgery that might possibly leave them scarred. And it didn't cost them more than a few bucks.

What the fuck have you done to help? Not a Goddamned thing.
 
TxL, what's up with you? Why are you getting that personal? I remember you being more mature.
All right. If I appear to you guys, as enemy, fine.
From my perspective, we were just talking. But, I might be wrong, so I won't continue in this thread.
:)
 
I think your wrong Paneria. You are helping make everyone else believe the wrong things that why TxLonghorn is mad.
 
I have to agree

I think that when you come to a debate that can have 'real' world consequences, such as gyno. We should have a more open mind. It is OK, if it causes prolactin levels or progesterone or even my freaking foot to hurt if I inject. I think people just want to know the truth. Also some peoples receptors are not as 'active' (if I may use that term) thereby being 'immune'. But if some of your advice has helped others, awesome. We are here to help everyone to achieve the best body he has, and tits wont do it. sorry. To me, it is better to be safe than sorry.

Consider this. Ok, so tren has no effect on prolactin and other hormone levels. But what if it is another pathway. One we dont know about. Scientist discover new things everyday. We dont really even know why steroids work, they just do. We dont even know why muscle grows, we just do. Sure we speculate. But when it comes down to it, having an MD sometimes can make one just have more questions. Bottom line. IF the Vitex works, who cares what pathway it uses and even if it is prolactin. It has helped people and that is all we should be concerned about.
 
Golfer18 said:
I think your wrong Paneria. You are helping make everyone else believe the wrong things that why TxLonghorn is mad.
Click to expand...

Exactly. I have no beef with you and maybe I said more than I intended to, but the main idea is what golfer just stated. You were beating people over the head and saying they were having no problems because you have yet to see a study saying so. Studies don't always tell you the full story. And that's why I think it's irresponsible for you to see the gyno situation and for all intents and purposes say that it isn't happening.

No, the vets of the board can make up their own mind, but what about the guys who aren't that sure about what is going on? What about 'Billy Juicer' who has heard all of the hype about fina, is trying it right now and starting to get lumps? Do you think he really cares if he knows precisely what is causing this, or do you think he would rather have somebody help him?

So yes, I think you weren't interested in a discussion, you were interested in being right. And I think it was irresponsible to say that vitex wouldn't help. It does.
 
TxLonghorn said:


Exactly. I have no beef with you and maybe I said more than I intended to, but the main idea is what golfer just stated. You were beating people over the head and saying they were having no problems because you have yet to see a study saying so. Studies don't always tell you the full story. And that's why I think it's irresponsible for you to see the gyno situation and for all intents and purposes say that it isn't happening.

No, the vets of the board can make up their own mind, but what about the guys who aren't that sure about what is going on? What about 'Billy Juicer' who has heard all of the hype about fina, is trying it right now and starting to get lumps? Do you think he really cares if he knows precisely what is causing this, or do you think he would rather have somebody help him?

So yes, I think you weren't interested in a discussion, you were interested in being right. And I think it was irresponsible to say that vitex wouldn't help. It does.
Click to expand...

and if Bill Juicer were getting gyno I would hope he still thinks Vitex helps.
 
Someone please explain to my left nip that it should not be affected by tren. :) Even with nolva, arimidex, vitex, winny 50mg ED, then winny 100mg ED I still had sensitive nips after 1 week of use. I really don't need a study to prove that it causes gyno, because my nips told me something was happening. Not my opinion, just my experience.

Until there is clear evidence one way or the other, I think tren users should expect to see gyno symptoms. If you don't, then you're golden. If you do, then you'll know what things to try to combat them.
 
You all moved a bit from the main question, which was how much to take Vitex to lower prolactin levels? That's the important question that was not answered in all the 52 replies here.
 
fitwizard said:
You all moved a bit from the main question, which was how much to take Vitex to lower prolactin levels? That's the important question that was not answered in all the 52 replies here.
Click to expand...

actually it was.
 
RdStrcklnd said:
Someone posted a study that it raised prolactin at low doses, but began to lower prolactin once the dose had reached higher levels (I think 450mg was the number from the study).
Click to expand...




There you go Fitwizard.
 
LOL Tx........ :)

Look Panerai, its all good to theorize and postulate
etc... etc.... BUT you have to take into account that people
can't exatly WAIT for this info, therefore you need
to experiment. How do you think Novaldex first came into use?

Here are the best 3 prolactin suppressors:

1. Cabergoline 0.5mg/day 93% supprssion(Expensive)
2. Bromocriptine at 2.5mgs/day(1.25*2X/day) 87% suppression.
Costs $65 for 60 2.5mg tabs.
3. Vitex: 1000 200mg caps for £47 50-60% suppression(
This is an extrapolation NOT totally precise) Dosage:
600mg/day if starting w/ a cycle OR 1000mg/day if gyno
symptoms already there.

As far as the Fina-priolactin connection, I think I have the
answer to that one.(Stress "I think..." ).

Fonz
 
Fonz: When you say you think you have the answer to the prolactin connection? Do you mean you think you've found something that works for the sides, or you think you've figured out how it works? I'm very interested in finding the resolution to this.
 
milkbone said:
Fonz: When you say you think you have the answer to the prolactin connection? Do you mean you think you've found something that works for the sides, or you think you've figured out how it works? I'm very interested in finding the resolution to this.
Click to expand...

Yep. I think I've figured out how it works, which
will go A LONG way in finding how to block the
Fina gyno.
Complicated would be an understatement regarding
Fina gyno.

Fonz
 
Fonz said:


Yep. I think I've figured out how it works, which
will go A LONG way in finding how to block the
Fina gyno.
Complicated would be an understatement regarding
Fina gyno.

Fonz
Click to expand...

That statement scares me. :) Having said that, which prolactin fighters do you think are best ... or were they already listed in order of effectivness??
 
Fonz said:
Here are the best 3 prolactin suppressors:

1. Cabergoline 0.5mg/day 93% supprssion(Expensive)
2. Bromocriptine at 2.5mgs/day(1.25*2X/day) 87% suppression.
Costs $65 for 60 2.5mg tabs.
3. Vitex: 1000 200mg caps for £47 50-60% suppression(
This is an extrapolation NOT totally precise) Dosage:
600mg/day if starting w/ a cycle OR 1000mg/day if gyno
symptoms already there.
Click to expand...

Deprenyl.
 
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