How much time does a cycle save??

[69Muscle]

Say your not at your "Genetic Limit" and your doing a cycle (God forbid!) @ A simple cycle of say 500mg test/week 25mg dbol ED (basic noobe starter kit) 6 week cycle, how much time would you say you were able to 'skip' by doing this?
I know your going to bash me for making the assocation of using gear as a shortcut but it's not. I was just wondering how long I would of had to workout at the gym natural to see the results I've seen on juice?

It's a good question posed poorly (lack of better words) I think. Try and keep it mature.

 

[BigAndy69]

If you start before you reach your genetic limit (Less than 5-6lbs of lbm a year in my Opinion) than you will never achieve your true potential.

People think they have reached there limit when they hit a plateau and instead of switching there routines or getting more sleep, they stick a needle in there ass.

Your first steroid cycle will give you a 15-20lbs jump. A lot of people don't know how to get past a plateau so they juice. The "shock" of anabolics fades away after 3-5 cycles and then you are back to were you started, a plateau. You double the dose(that all they know how to do) and it doesn't do much. If you had learned how the get through a sticking point when you were natural, you would never reach a plateau on roids.

Okay, enough of my ranting.

To answer your question, about 6-8 months.

 

[69Muscle]

Ok, I knew I'd get flak about the genetic limit, and for making it seem like I was looking for the shortcut. I can deal with that. That wasn't my intentions though, I just wanted to basically know how fast AAS speeds up your body's abilty to create muscle and to process protien. The best way to pose that question was to make it a broad generalization.

 

[genarr3]

This is basically an impossible question to answer, but if I had to take a guess I'd agree with Andy and say - "about 6-8 months".

 

[Soma]

Why do you say that Big Andy?

I would think that it would not influence the max muscle you could hold either way....maybe more muscle holding ability with AS use i would think(look at the pros and when most of them started using). Better blood flow due to increased blood vessel size, pumps, red blood cell production, etc... Some actually say that the anabolic receptors upgrade with the use of AS- be it through an increase in receptors or increase in ability of the receptor to initiate protein synthesis, etc... I really dont know but everything i've heard/read points me to this conclusion. As far as the shortcut thing goes i dont know- say you gain 15 lbs on a cycle...how long does it take you to gain that naturally- a year on average to an amateur BB'er i would think....there ya go. Good luck.

-Soma

 

[Dr.X]

I would have to go even further in saying a 6 week cycle such as the one you mentioned would be the equivalent of 1-2 years training naturally. I got this estimate by figuring a gain of 10 lbs of muscle on the cycle and that it takes most people around one year to add 5 lbs natually once you are an experienced lifter (>5-6 years training).

 

[BigAndy69]

Re: Why do you say that Big Andy?

I would think that it would not influence the max muscle you could hold either way....maybe more muscle holding ability with AS use i would think(look at the pros and when most of them started using). Better blood flow due to increased blood vessel size, pumps, red blood cell production, etc... Some actually say that the anabolic receptors upgrade with the use of AS- be it through an increase in receptors or increase in ability of the receptor to initiate protein synthesis, etc... I really dont know but everything i've heard/read points me to this conclusion. As far as the shortcut thing goes i dont know- say you gain 15 lbs on a cycle...how long does it take you to gain that naturally- a year on average to an amateur BB'er i would think....there ya go. Good luck.

-Soma

It's kind of hard for me to communicate what I'm trying to say.

You should learn everything about BBing and your body before you ever touch a roid. To be a good bber you need to know your body and what it takes to get past a sticking point.

Is steroid use a shortcut? In most cases, yes. How are you going to learn anything if you gain 15-20 lbs in a matter of a couple of months? The truth is you won't. You are now relying 100% on AS. This is very bad, because steroid use is not forever; it's bad for your health and mentally; you end up losing everything in the long run because you don't know what to do when your off.

BBing is about getting past barriers. What happens If you haven't gained anything for a few weeks, and you haven't gotten any stronger?

You have two choices: the easy way out that will teach you nothing: AS or the hard way, try a new routine, analysing your diet, your form, your recovery...etc.

Of course it's much easier to pop a few pills and sit back and grow bigger.

What happens when these guys don't respond to Anabolics as well anymore(usually after 3-5 cycles)? They need more, and more drugs to gain just a little more mass. They are ruining there health and aren't gaining much.

A smart well trained BBer will use close to the same doses he's used in the past and rely on getting past barrier by using the knowlegde he earned after so many years of natural lifting.

You won't see him using 3g of gear, yet he looks better and is healthier than the ones who do.

I hope I made some sense.

BA69.

 

[Soma]

I see where you're coming from

I see what you're talkin bout BigAndy- its more about learning first about diet, training methods.....then cycling. But as far as the AS actually being less effective and cutting gains short in the long run...thats b/c of a lack of knowledge as far as diet and training/recuperation are concerned. I gotcha- good point.

 

[BigAndy69]

Re: Re: Why do you say that Big Andy?

A smart well trained BBer will use close to the same doses he's used in the past and rely on getting past barrier by using the knowlegde he earned after so many years of natural lifting.

You won't see him using 3g of gear, yet he looks better and is healthier than the ones who do.

Just to add something else: That's smart steroid use. People think it means using Milk thistle, Cranberry juice and Clomid. That's not it. It using your mind to grow bigger and not relying on the juice.

 

[genarr3]

Re: Re: Why do you say that Big Andy?

It's kind of hard for me to communicate what I'm trying to say.

You should learn everything about BBing and your body before you ever touch a roid. To be a good bber you need to know your body and what it takes to get past a sticking point.

Is steroid use a shortcut? In most cases, yes. How are you going to learn anything if you gain 15-20 lbs in a matter of a couple of months? The truth is you won't. You are now relying 100% on AS. This is very bad, because steroid use is not forever; it's bad for your health and mentally; you end up losing everything in the long run because you don't know what to do when your off.

BBing is about getting past barriers. What happens If you haven't gained anything for a few weeks, and you haven't gotten any stronger?

You have two choices: the easy way out that will teach you nothing: AS or the hard way, try a new routine, analysing your diet, your form, your recovery...etc.

Of course it's much easier to pop a few pills and sit back and grow bigger.

What happens when these guys don't respond to Anabolics as well anymore(usually after 3-5 cycles)? They need more, and more drugs to gain just a little more mass. They are ruining there health and aren't gaining much.

A smart well trained BBer will use close to the same doses he's used in the past and rely on getting past barrier by using the knowlegde he earned after so many years of natural lifting.

You won't see him using 3g of gear, yet he looks better and is healthier than the ones who do.

I hope I made some sense.

BA69.

I agree 100%. IMO - Instant or early steroid use to me shows no heart or love for the sport. You'll never know what it's like to really work and earn muscle.

 

[BigAndy69]

Re: Re: Re: Why do you say that Big Andy?

I agree 100%. IMO - Instant or early steroid use to me shows no heart or love for the sport. You'll never know what it's like to really work and earn muscle.

Also, the confidence you get from making gains naturally is unmatched. It makes you a strong person mentally not only physically.

 

[dknyguy]

Listen the basic answer to the question you asked is about one year. I see people juice in the gym and they get about as far as I do in about one year. It is a shortcut, what is the big deal. I give props to anyone that juices but I think they would admit that it is a shortcut for most of them because they would never be able to look like they do if it werent for the juice.