How much juice do you think pros use?

[Nelson Montana]

Also if you have the genetics to take the juice. I have seen guys that don't get much from the juice without a lot of sideeffects. Then I have a friend that never experiences any sides and just blows up on minimal dosages.

Another "freak" element of Arnolds that is often overlooked.

In the off season Arnold wasn't so amazing. But it seemed like as soon as he popped a couple of dballs, he blew up. Some people simple have more receptors than others. And once they're saturated, they're saturated. As C3 implied, you can take boatloads of gear but the body will only accept so much and it won't make any difference after a while. Ironically, the guys who resond the worst are the ones who seem to think they need the most.

One more thing...

Everybody has got to stop looking at the pros for answers about magical cycles. You ain't Jay Cutler. Never will be. Shut up already.

And most importantly...

The steroid using community have got to accept that gear will add that extra 10% that you simply can't get any other way. But doubling the dosage won't give you an extra 20%. Yet, I wonder how many people aren't even close to their potential because they don't train right, eat right or use effective supplements. And even those who juice, 75% of them don't do it in the most effective way.

Okay, i'm done. Sermon over.

 

[c3bodybuilding]

That's what is so great about your books Nelson and the supplements you have created. Not only does the advice work but it's the truth. I remember reading your first e-book over and over trying to soak it all in. And it's actually nice to see someone in great shape that walked the walk and not just do a bunch of talking. If anyone hasn't seen Nelson's contest pics and the small amount he took, you would be amazed. He looked better than most people on the boards taking grams a week. Why? He knows the truth, the gear really is just the icing on the cake!

And the supplements he formulated work. Most I've taken that do work are more like putting a piece of duct tape on a leaky pipe. His take care of the problem and work as claimed. Like the fat burner, instead of making you have the shakes all day or shutting down your thyroid, it makes the system as a whole work better and gets the job done the right way.

It was all just too easy for too long. The past 5 or 6 years was like letting kids go wild in candy stores (or video game shops these days, lol). I would see regular people posting about taking 2 grams of test, a gram of eq, boatloads of orals, etc. I would then see pics and my jaw would drop. Not in a good way either.

I'm not Ronnie Coleman, but I can get in the 270 range with 300mgs of deca and 250-300mgs of test. I remember Dave Draper once saying he was in his late 20's and already 230lbs before he ever took anything. And when he did, it was a small dose of winny, just enough to give him an edge.

There's a thread on the front page where someone is being trained by a pro for a show and he has him on 20mgs of tbol, around a gram of test and 600mgs of deca. 4ius of gh as well. It's a bit much for my taste but it's tame compared to what I've seen others post up as cycles. People who don't even want to compete mind you! People who just want to get a Brad Pitt type of look for the beach! Lee Priest claims to take low amounts as well. People call him a liar though. Why? Is it so hard to believe he could look that way on small doses? Or is it too *hurtful* to believe that? I think bodybuilding today, as a whole is just one big mind fck.

A whole generation of young men grew up where action stars were all obviously on and bodybuilding was just coming out so to speak. Even comic book characters were suddenly drawn bigger and more ripped. Action figures became larger than life. And then the pro's.... what can I say? 5'10 men weighing 250-300lbs. I truly believe the guys that got into it all (people like all of us on the boards) really bought into all of this, sort of like how Miami Vice defined a part of the 80s. And once involved it just warped the shit out of our minds.

Then reality hit like a blow to the face and everyone who got involved in this world realized even if you took gear you wouldn't look like a pro bber overnight, maybe never. The one's who couldn't accept that truth kept lying to themselves, choosing to believe the beautiful (in reality ugly) lie mags like Flex were/are selling. Shooting up grams and grams of stuff that really could catch up to you and kill you one day, all while living in a dream world.

I think lately there's been a slow wake up call and there are a lot of pissed off people. This is for the best. But for some, the damage is done. I see some sick shit like guys who weigh 230lbs all ripped up at around 5'10-6'2 and they think they are 'small'! That's just as twisted as the ones who are 170 on 2 grams of test and still buying into the bs.

I guess it's all one big clusterfck. What do the pro's take? How much do they take? Who knows, only they do. Should anyone as an individual care? NO. Train for you, eat for you and if you choose to go down the path of gear, learn all you can and then some. If you still want to go for it, do so with some common sense and then take those numbers and back them down a notch or two more. A lot of people would be shocked if they cut their dosages in half (or more) and took a good hard look at their training, rest and eating habits, made some changes and then waited a few months. They would be shocked at how much better they looked AND felt.

 

[xrsist]

very well said nelson and c3

 

[heavydutyhit]

I wholeheartedly agree with Nelson. I am a 27 year old guy who got obsessed with bodybuilding when I was 12 years old. It was the night I saw a Pro Wrestler named Lex Luger in person. I was in awe. I began training immediately, reading all the books, and magazines I could find. During my teens I had two different personal trainers and one of them schooled me good on the whole steroids issue. He made sure I understood that steroids weren't the ticket to the perfect body. Steroids are used to put the finishing touches on the already perfect body. And by perfect body, he meant hitting the genetic wall. He meant getting to the point where it is absolutely genetically impossible to get any bigger, any leaner, and any more proportionate naturally. So after learning this, my bodybuilding goal has since then been to "hit the wall". And then and ONLY then experiment with AS IN AN INTELLIGENT, RATIONAL, and MODERATE manner. And I can happily say that I am 27 years old, 240 lbs, 14-16% BF (presently), I have 18 3/4 inch arms measured cold, and I still have NOT hit the wall. I am however very close. As in, my arms have DEFINITELY hit the wall, my chest has hit the wall, my lats have hit the wall, and my delts are really close to the wall. HOWEVER..., my midback is still catching up with the lats, and my fucking long ass legs (my curse from genetics) are pretty fucking far from the wall. Any of this make sense? Parts of me are ready for AS, but they are gonna have to wait for the rest to catch up.

Too many so-called bodybuilders want it all right now. They say "Just gimme 12 weeks of some gear and then I'll be right where I want", when in reality they haven't even been training for a full year yet! IMO AS should be looked upon as the absolute final touch. There have been many times over the past 15 years where I really wanted to go ahead and dive in head first. But I would sit down and ask myself "Andrew..., Have you really exhausted every single possible strategy including diet, training split, types of training, different exercises, rest periods, ect. that there are available to the point where steroids are the only thing left you have not tried?" and the answer was always (and still is) NO!

Also let me say I DO NOT have a holier than thou attitude towards you guys who do take roids. There are plenty of you who are intelligent and know what the hell you are doing. However I cannot stand the majority of people who are on roids. These are people who hate to work out, who hate to diet, who hate to go to bed early every night, who don't train on Fridays because they have to go out and party ect. These people are fucking worms/trolls and they make any real true bodybuilder sick. They are the same people that get fucked up on vodka and ecstasy every weekend, and then when they have a Myocardial Infraction guess what...., IT MUST HAVE BEEN THE ROIDS! Its Bullshit. I have always said there should be an IQ test/screening before someone is allowed to get into bodybuilding.

Bottom line, true bodybuilding is not a 12 week program. It is not a 16 week cycle. True bodybuilding is a lifestyle that you chose to live 24/7. You chose to live it because you love it. And there is absolutely no off season, and it will never end. How many true bodybuilder do you know that one day looked in the mirror and said "Cool..., I'm there. All i have to do is maintain for the rest of my career, because this is what I always dreamed I would look like one day."? Even Jay Cutler goes back to the drawing board after winning the Olympia. The thing is, smart bodybuilders take it slow, because the slower it comes....., the longer it will last. Again just my opinions. Didn't mean to flame.

 

[enacer420nj]

It varies from "as much as they can" to barely a gram a week. At that point if an extra gram puts on an ounce of muscle it's worth it. But there are a lot of guys who know how much it takes to give them the results they want. And I know for a fact, the old timers took less than most guys on this board. I'm one of them.

I've had pros be very candid with me and some will say that they'll inject rat feces if it'd give them an edge and others who say once they go over a gram all they get is more bloated.

The moral of the story is; pros aren't pros becuase they take the most juice. It's genetics. And the juice gives everyone the extra edge. And some guys react to it better than others.

Makes alot of sense bro...Did u tear up miami?