How much does this prove true?

[Legion Kreinak2]

I always hear people stating it to be very simple, and I have myself, but I wonder if it really is...

As you increase in weight (of lifts) you will grow in size...

Assuming CNS adaption has somewhat peaked and the numbers are no longer increasing due to that, does the above statement prove true?

 

[argent]

That hypertrophy is occuring...on paper anyway.

 

[coolcolj]

Well look at my before and after pics, I'm getting stronger, I'm also getting bigger


yest I train mostly for strength. go figure

 

[Legion Kreinak2]

So as lifting numbers increase, so will size, regardless of what routine you're on or how frequently you train?

I don't see the call for frequency, then, on HST for example, over the once a week frequency of the 5x5. I suppose because HST also has you progressing in lift numbers every workout, like 5x5.

5x5 - once a week
DC - 1.5x a week
HST - 3x a week

Maybe something that has you progressing in weights 2x a week would work nicely?

Don't know if I'm getting any points across with this, just thinking aloud, but I would think the way HST has you progressing would allow for more gains in both size and strength.

 

[casualbb]

Progressive load will cause muscle growth.

There are two ways to do this:

1) Ride the edge of your strength, so rely on strength gains. DC and any train-to-failure plan does this.

2) Lift submaximally and plan for weight increases. HST and 5x5 do this.

So if at each weightlifting session you add a meaningful (note, not 2 pounds, forget fractional plates) weight to the bar, you will grow, if you're overeating.

-casual

 

[Legion Kreinak2]

Which of those 2 ways would you prefer, Casual? I'm guessing the latter.

 

[coolcolj]

Progressive load will cause muscle growth.

There are two ways to do this:

1) Ride the edge of your strength, so rely on strength gains. DC and any train-to-failure plan does this.

2) Lift submaximally and plan for weight increases. HST and 5x5 do this.

So if at each weightlifting session you add a meaningful (note, not 2 pounds, forget fractional plates) weight to the bar, you will grow, if you're overeating.

-casual

Well I don't train my squat progressively with heavier weights. I use sub-maximal weights with maximal accleration. I've been using the same weights for the last 6 months waved up and down all over the place, and yet my squat keeps going up and my legs keep getting bigger

bar weight means nothing, muscle tension is everything

 

[Legion Kreinak2]

Interesting, CCJ...

You train differently from many people here, right?
I'm thinking of picking at your style a bit. It seems to be working.

 

[coolcolj]

Interesting, CCJ...

You train differently from many people here, right?
I'm thinking of picking at your style a bit. It seems to be working.

Don't it's too complicated for you

 

[killa in manila]

srength training

how would you train differently if you were training for strength
not bodybuilding?

 

[zero%bodyfat]

no offense. but i think most of you guys on this board over complicate these different training theories, just buy judging your pics and the stats you post. Because your stats and pics, do not differ greatley from someone who just trains "normaly" or doesnt really have a sound routine.

of course there are exceptions to some people that grow like freaks on a westside or 5 for 5 routine. And maybe these people wouldnt grow as well on a normal routine. But Millions of people train"normally" everyday with just weightlifting or weightlifting and cardio and grow just fine. And some cannot grow no matter what.

so basically im saying "genetics" is a big factor. and consitency and diet. just dont get too tied up in details.

feel free to pick me apart on this one

 

[Legion Kreinak2]

Ohh, that was harsh CCJ! I meant take some of the basics. Submaximal weights done explosively... that's not too hard, now is it? Haha.

And I know you have something where you overtrain slightly, then backoff and make big gains, etc.

As for the last comment, I agree that people do complicate things a bit on these forums, and I do it as well, but whatever. I'm sure people could grow with just consistency and shit, but I'm moreso trying to understand... I guess you could say "the science" behind it all.

 

[casualbb]

Well legion, what are your goals?

As to the science, spatts said it best. See my signature.

-casual

 

[eXplicit]

agreed zero

Most of the time I just do lifts to failure every single time... instead of following a rep routine (over-complicating). It works better for me at least.

 

[Legion Kreinak2]

My goals are mainly size... functional strength would be nice but right now, it's not important to me. Just need size. Arms mainly, because they're lagging. My calves excel out of any bodypart, and my chest is descent but could use some work.

 

[BlkWS6]

Originally posted by casualbb
So if at each weightlifting session you add a meaningful (note, not 2 pounds, forget fractional plates) weight to the bar, you will grow, if you're overeating.

-casual


Please explain what you mean by this. Are you saying that adding 2.5lbs to each side (for a total of 5lbs) is pointless!? Progressive load as far as Im concerned is all about making jumps in small increments. It sure wouldnt be a "progressive" load if one were to add 10-20lbs to the bar each lifting session. I dont think one would progress past two weeks at that rate, unless they started with a weight way under what they could normally handle.

 

[Legion Kreinak2]

No I think he means adding fractional plates, as in 1 lb. plates, to each side. Thus giving you 2 lbs. That's pointless. Anywhere from 5-20 would work, but 5-10 is probably best.

 

[casualbb]

It sure wouldnt be a "progressive" load if one were to add 10-20lbs to the bar each lifting session.

Why not?

I dont think one would progress past two weeks at that rate,

Define progress. Strength gains? If someone's goal is to gain size, is that necessarily the best measuring stick of progress?

unless they started with a weight way under what they could normally handle.

That's exactly how HST works. It takes a bit of patience because for a couple months one deliberately avoids testing their strength, working with submaximal weights. Now how does one know one is making progress? Measurements and bodyweight go up. A lot. And then usually after a couple months, when things get heavy, one finds he/she is significantly stronger.

Empirically, the HST people have found that 5% of one's 5RM is a great increment size. Any less, and one doesn't grow as much; any more, and it starts too light with too much overlap between rep ranges.

It's no minor coincidence that all the programs touted as extremely successful (HST, 5x5, DC) do this.

-casual

 

[BlkWS6]

I find it very hard to believe that one could make consistent progress by adding 20lbs to the bar each week. You would stall out extremely fast, or else all HST guys would have enormous lifts by now if they could add 20lbs to all their lifts every week. What Im saying is that progress can continue much longer if lets say one makes only a 5lb jump every week. And when I think of progressive "load" I definitely think of strength and numbers. I mean after all load would be referring to the amount of weight you are exposing the body to, so why wouldnt we refer to progressive load as gains in strength? Progressive Load = adding weight (load) to the bar every week(progressive) which is essentially a gain in strength is it not (assuming one is able to lift that weight)?

 

[pwr_machine]

I'll have a detailed training cycle for strength/powerlifting submitted for publication within the next few months. I'll keep you guys and gals posted as we wrap up the research on my end.

 

[casualbb]

What I'm saying is that the increments that appear to be best for growth are large enough that it's impossible that one could actually keep up with them in strength gains. Hence the submaximal work.

-casual

 

[Curious George]

Legion Kreinak2 .......Check out www.elitefts.com for more details on how cool trains.

Read articles by Dave Tate and Louis Simmons.

Read articles on maximum compensatory acceleration and also read on TMag, the Periodization part II by Dave Tate.