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How effective is Clomid alone for pct?

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glassman21

New member
Just finished a 10 week cycle of sust 250 (500 mg/wk) and Deca (600 mg/week). I have 2 friends who have been around and done AAS for years. Both people told me to not do the HCG and just do the Clomid for 2 weeks. I gained 20 lbs and dont want to lose it. I waited 3 weeks for the esters in the sust to clear before I started the Clomid. I started day one with 300 mg and then 100 mg for the next 5 days as instructed and will do 50 mg for the next 5 days. I read something though that says that Clomid will not work for Deca without the HCG. I know that the HCG could aromatise and therefore one should always use Clomid right after so now that I have almost finished my Clomid should i do the HCG or not? I was thinking about doing 1500 iu's twice a week for 2 weeks. I do have a few Arimidex left that I could use as anti-e but I only have 7 (1/2mg) capsules left. Anyone want to comment?
 
glassman21 said:
Just finished a 10 week cycle of sust 250 (500 mg/wk) and Deca (600 mg/week). I have 2 friends who have been around and done AAS for years. Both people told me to not do the HCG and just do the Clomid for 2 weeks. I gained 20 lbs and dont want to lose it. I waited 3 weeks for the esters in the sust to clear before I started the Clomid. I started day one with 300 mg and then 100 mg for the next 5 days as instructed and will do 50 mg for the next 5 days. I read something though that says that Clomid will not work for Deca without the HCG. I know that the HCG could aromatise and therefore one should always use Clomid right after so now that I have almost finished my Clomid should i do the HCG or not? I was thinking about doing 1500 iu's twice a week for 2 weeks. I do have a few Arimidex left that I could use as anti-e but I only have 7 (1/2mg) capsules left. Anyone want to comment?
Click to expand...

Simple:
PCT = AI (eg AIFM) + Clomid + HCG
 
that didnt really answer his question.. hes asking if he should get on the hcg since hes already started using the clomid.. and if taking the arimidex he has will help against his aromatization from the hcg.. sorry i just reworded it for you i guess.. personally i would probably run the hcg/clomid/.25 dex a day
but most people are against anti e in PCT.. you dont have any nolva?
 
jmead said:
that didnt really answer his question.. hes asking if he should get on the hcg since hes already started using the clomid.. and if taking the arimidex he has will help against his aromatization from the hcg.. sorry i just reworded it for you i guess.. personally i would probably run the hcg/clomid/.25 dex a day
but most people are against anti e in PCT.. you dont have any nolva?
Click to expand...

I did answer his question: I've put HCG in the answer so Obviously he should use HCG

Secondly, Who said people are against anti-e in PCT; having a anti-e is almost a necessity in any good PCT regiment.

thirdly, Nolva + deca = bad idea (since it would increase prolactin levels)

fourthly, I mentioned AIFM because it's a stronger AI (Aromatase Inhibitor) than Arimidex
 
Hey guys thanks but what I really need to know is how to get by with what I have. I have 5 Clomid (55 mg), 7 Arimidex (1/2) mg and one vial (10,000 iu) of HCG. I should have just taken the fuckin HCG with the Clomid instead of listening to my two bro's that advised to take the Clomid only. Both of them compete in shows and do the shit all the time.....for over 7 years now. Both of their girlfriend's compete. They make their own gear most of the time. One guy is an actual chemical engineer for Halliburton and went to West Point. I figured they knew what the hell they were talking about. I wouldn't be worried about not taking the HCG had i not read the article on how ineffective Clomid is when using it as a pct after Deca.
 
One more question guys. How do I mix the HCG and measure it. I have the pins and gear I just don't know how much 1500 iu's is in an insulin pin???? First time.
 
you can use Clomid by itself but that wouldn't bring your balls back to size;HCG will do that. Any Succesful PCT should include besides Clomid, HCG and an AI (eg Aromasin)
Click to expand...


I simply use HCG & Nolvadex,

Works fine.


Clomid makes me wig out
 
glassman21 said:
One more question guys. How do I mix the HCG and measure it. I have the pins and gear I just don't know how much 1500 iu's is in an insulin pin???? First time.
Click to expand...


Add in 1cc of bactorsteric water to the hcg wafer. 15ius will equal 1500ius of hcg on a slin pin.
 
Why cant nolvadex be used with deca? First time ive ever heard that. And arent nolvadex and clomid pretty much the same thing?
 
Shouldnt be a problem as long as you wait for the esters to clear. I imagine the amount nolva increases prolactin is negligible tho?
 
I read where he waited 3 weeks. I just cant imagine 3 weeks later the addition of some nolva would have any negative effect. It would be minute and hed be well below the 600plus mgs he did have running in him......That being said, i would use clomid also. I still beleive the pct laid out in WAR 1996 is perfect.
 
I don't have any nolvadex anyway. I am going to run the 1500 iu's of HCG twice a week for two weeks along with the remaining Clomid I have (50 mg a day for the next 5 days) and take the Arimidex every other day both weeks.

Even though I took 600mg of Deca a week I never shut down sexually because I took 500mg of sust I guess. I don't feel like I lost much in my balls anyway but just want my test leveles to resume to maintain what I have gained. For the duration of the entire cycle I had sex like twice a day EVERY day and finshed with no problem. If that is not a problem is the HCG still necessary?
 
galaxy said:
Add in 1cc of bactorsteric water to the hcg wafer. 15ius will equal 1500ius of hcg on a slin pin.
Click to expand...


Its not a wafer...it's a powder in a vial (10,000 iu's). Is that a wafer? I'm not being a smart ass I just picture a wafer being a solid matter instead of the powder I have in a vial and want to be sure we are on the same page before I mix it and minister it.
 
Ulter said:
Yes it's still a good idea. Just as a safety net.
Click to expand...


Thanks Ulter. I appreciate the info....my buddies live in other cities and are hard to reach at times and I really needed to bounce this off someone with some experience. Thanks to all you others guys too.
 
If its the vial of water that came with it then mix the whole thing in with the powder. This way 1cc will equal 1000ius . Then you can shoot 1 and a half cc's to get your desired 1500ius.
 
yeah, it's the bottle I got with it. I didn't think 1cc would be near enough water. I'd be shooting paste!!! Simple math right? 1cc in 10,000 iu's = 1000 iu's per cc. simple. cool. thanks.
 
glassman21 said:
yeah, it's the bottle I got with it. I didn't think 1cc would be near enough water. I'd be shooting paste!!! Simple math right? 1cc in 10,000 iu's = 1000 iu's per cc. simple. cool. thanks.
Click to expand...
No....retry the simple math, bro!
 
At 600mg per week, it'll take around 45 days from the last injection for the circulating Deca to be considered negligable. That's assuming the 6-day half-life published by Organon and listed in PubMed. If you like to work with a longer half-life then you'd need an even-longer buffer to feel safe using Nolva.
 
As far as I know HCG does not guarantee that your test production will remain normal after u quit HCG and with Clomid is more likely that your test production will get back to normal. I know some people feel sad/sensible while on Clomid but thats the price u have to pay for taking it
 
blut wump said:
At 600mg per week, it'll take around 45 days from the last injection for the circulating Deca to be considered negligable. That's assuming the 6-day half-life published by Organon and listed in PubMed. If you like to work with a longer half-life then you'd need an even-longer buffer to feel safe using Nolva.
Click to expand...
Do you know why it's called deca? Because the half life is ten days. So it even longer than 6 weeks.
 
Last edited:
I think Ulter was making a semi-serious funny. :)

pctcalculator has Deca half-life down as 9 days. A lot probably depends too on bodyfat levels since it's reputed to re-esterify quite easily in the chubbies amongst us. Also, injection site can have an effect on effective half-life.

I think it's sensible to adjust the basic six days upwards for PCT considerations.

Organon has it at 6 days.
http://organon.ca/authfiles/Images/278_152597.pdf (PDF file)

Also this from PubMed has Deca at six days:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=3865478&dopt=Abstract

Nandrolone decanoate (Deca-Durabolin) was injected intramuscularly into healthy volunteers. One group of females received one injection of 100 mg and three groups of males received one injection of 200 mg, two repeat injections of 100 mg or four repeat injections of 50 mg respectively. The serum levels of nandrolone (19-nortestosterone) were determined by radioimmunoassay and used to estimate pharmacokinetic parameters. The following pharmacokinetic parameters were found: a mean half-life of 6 days for the release of the ester from the muscular injection depot into the general circulation; a mean half-life of 4.3 h for the combined processes of hydrolysis of nandrolone decanoate and of distribution and elimination of nandrolone; a mean nandrolone serum clearance of 1.55 1 X h-1 X kg-1. The half-life of hydrolysis of nandrolone decanoate in serum was of the order of one hour or less. The data are consistent with linear kinetics.
 
BTW with a ten-day half-life, you'd want to leave around 10 weeks to clear from a weekly dose of 600mg.

Of course, it'll still be detectable for many months to come. Not for nothing is it recommended to run your test for a good month beyond the end of your Deca.
 
ok bro, all the arguing aside. avoid the nolva for safety sake as you already said you will. take this very serious what i say. i just fucking shut myself down harder than my 11 week cycle of test at 500mg per week. hcg shut me down without clomid. i ran hcg alone with aromasin. my balls shrunk up like my 1 year old boys ball bag. i had no libido, couldn't get it hard if i tried. now. i got some clomid and started taking that and doing low dose hcg. it worked. dropped them down right away. the only thing im recommending to you since you have both is stop the hcg 2-3 weeks before you stop the clomid and AI. otherwise your chancing complete shutdown. my balls barely shrunk on my cycle, first cycle ever that is, which is why im learning the hard way, but good bros have explained this to me and the clomid with hcg turned me back on like flipping a fucking lightswitch.

i also will make a recommendation while im here. aromasin imo sucks, i was using aifm on the cycle and had no probs. well then i had a allergic reaction to it for some reason when i started using it on my feet. i stopped using it. i got pain in my left breast and lumps in there i could feel. aromasin WITH LETRO didn't do a fucking thing, it stopped it in it's tracks but i decided when i got shutdown to try aifm again and just use it only on my hands, wrists w/e, fuck, the lumps actually started shrinking the FIRST FUCKING DAY. although still shutdown, i got some immediate, i mean within 24 hours, libido back. You can ask mac how pissed I was when it happened, but this is why i never flamed aifm on the board because i knew it worked the whole time. And now that I've used other AI's I realize that AIFM is the best shit out there. So, good luck bro. My next cycle is test and nandralone PP . I can't wait.
 
blut wump said:
BTW with a ten-day half-life, you'd want to leave around 10 weeks to clear from a weekly dose of 600mg.

Of course, it'll still be detectable for many months to come. Not for nothing is it recommended to run your test for a good month beyond the end of your Deca.
Click to expand...


Are you saying you should run test for a month after Deca? I quit running them both at the same time. What is the best injection site for HCG? To comment at once on alot of comments I have read since last night on this subject, Clomid does make me feel sensitive and actually a little weird but I know it is the clomid so I deal with it. Both my buddies are old school and have always used clomid only even after a sust/deca cycle and have done great. I got my gear from a legal source...had blood work done and paid out the ass for my shit because i did it legally. With that being said I have had specific instructions from a doctor on the dosages and recommended times to take each prescription but felt as if they were really interested more in selling me alot of shit over caring about my results. First off he told me to start out on week one with 500 mg sust and 600 mg of deca, The deca was 300mg. Most people have never even heard of deca coming in 300mg. Of course it cost alot more than the 200mg but.......I was instructed to do that dosage for ten weeks until I ran out. I didn't do that . I started with 250 mg sust and 200 mg deca the first few weeks and then went up to the recommended dosages the weeks following. Now he is telling me to do 3000 iu's of HCG the first day then 2000 iu's every other for 2 weeks which I also think is extreme and again geared more towards his desire to sell me more shit. I've heard you guys talking alot about Nolva. I am taking arimidex because of the same reasons most of you have said not to take nolva with deca. No harm in being safe. The arimidex has done fine. No sign of gyno whatsoever. I gained 18 lbs and lost 4% body fat so i feel like it was a success. Now i just want to be sure I take the HCG correctly.
 
glassman21 said:
Are you saying you should run test for a month after Deca? I quit running them both at the same time. What is the best injection site for HCG? To comment at once on alot of comments I have read since last night on this subject, Clomid does make me feel sensitive and actually a little weird but I know it is the clomid so I deal with it. Both my buddies are old school and have always used clomid only even after a sust/deca cycle and have done great. I got my gear from a legal source...had blood work done and paid out the ass for my shit because i did it legally. With that being said I have had specific instructions from a doctor on the dosages and recommended times to take each prescription but felt as if they were really interested more in selling me alot of shit over caring about my results. First off he told me to start out on week one with 500 mg sust and 600 mg of deca, The deca was 300mg. Most people have never even heard of deca coming in 300mg. Of course it cost alot more than the 200mg but.......I was instructed to do that dosage for ten weeks until I ran out. I didn't do that . I started with 250 mg sust and 200 mg deca the first few weeks and then went up to the recommended dosages the weeks following. Now he is telling me to do 3000 iu's of HCG the first day then 2000 iu's every other for 2 weeks which I also think is extreme and again geared more towards his desire to sell me more shit. I've heard you guys talking alot about Nolva. I am taking arimidex because of the same reasons most of you have said not to take nolva with deca. No harm in being safe. The arimidex has done fine. No sign of gyno whatsoever. I gained 18 lbs and lost 4% body fat so i feel like it was a success. Now i just want to be sure I take the HCG correctly.
Click to expand...




omylord, that is way to much hcg bro. 250iu ed for 10 days or 500iu for 10 days is most likely suffiicient
 
jagerbombme said:
ok bro, all the arguing aside. avoid the nolva for safety sake as you already said you will. take this very serious what i say. i just fucking shut myself down harder than my 11 week cycle of test at 500mg per week. hcg shut me down without clomid. i ran hcg alone with aromasin. my balls shrunk up like my 1 year old boys ball bag. i had no libido, couldn't get it hard if i tried. now. i got some clomid and started taking that and doing low dose hcg. it worked. dropped them down right away. the only thing im recommending to you since you have both is stop the hcg 2-3 weeks before you stop the clomid and AI. otherwise your chancing complete shutdown. my balls barely shrunk on my cycle, first cycle ever that is, which is why im learning the hard way, but good bros have explained this to me and the clomid with hcg turned me back on like flipping a fucking lightswitch.

i also will make a recommendation while im here. aromasin imo sucks, i was using aifm on the cycle and had no probs. well then i had a allergic reaction to it for some reason when i started using it on my feet. i stopped using it. i got pain in my left breast and lumps in there i could feel. aromasin WITH LETRO didn't do a fucking thing, it stopped it in it's tracks but i decided when i got shutdown to try aifm again and just use it only on my hands, wrists w/e, fuck, the lumps actually started shrinking the FIRST FUCKING DAY. although still shutdown, i got some immediate, i mean within 24 hours, libido back. You can ask mac how pissed I was when it happened, but this is why i never flamed aifm on the board because i knew it worked the whole time. And now that I've used other AI's I realize that AIFM is the best shit out there. So, good luck bro. My next cycle is test and nandralone PP . I can't wait.
Click to expand...

Okay. this just confused the hell out of me. I was just feeling better about taking the HCG when you said it shut you down. I have never heard of HCG shutting anyone down or it even being a posibility. I only have 5 clomid left which is definitely not enough to last me a week longer than the HCG. In fact I wouldn't even have any clonid left for the second week. I have 7 arimidex. I was going to do 1500iu's HCG twice a week for two weeks with 1/2mg of arimidex every other day but will only have clomid to last the first week every day. The second week i will be out of clomid. I have been on clomid without anything for a week 2 weeks now. What is the consensus here guys? Take the fuckin HCG or skip it this time and take only clomid. I sure as hell don't want to shut myself down on this shit.
 
jagerbombme said:
omylord, that is way to much hcg bro. 250iu ed for 10 days or 500iu for 10 days is most likely suffiicient
Click to expand...

Yeah, I know. Did you read the part that said I didn't trust his advice and thought he was more concerned with selling me shit? What I am really looking for is some advise from someone who has alot of experience and expertise on the subject or from someone who has successfully done a sust/deca cycle and clomid only pct.
 
glassman21 said:
Okay. this just confused the hell out of me. I was just feeling better about taking the HCG when you said it shut you down. I have never heard of HCG shutting anyone down or it even being a posibility. I only have 5 clomid left which is definitely not enough to last me a week longer than the HCG. In fact I wouldn't even have any clonid left for the second week. I have 7 arimidex. I was going to do 1500iu's HCG twice a week for two weeks with 1/2mg of arimidex every other day but will only have clomid to last the first week every day. The second week i will be out of clomid. I have been on clomid without anything for a week 2 weeks now. What is the consensus here guys? Take the fuckin HCG or skip it this time and take only clomid. I sure as hell don't want to shut myself down on this shit.
Click to expand...


if you run the hcg longer than the clomid you'll be introuble. don't even use the hcg then. get more clomid. i will pm you bro
 
hcg dosent aromatize... the tes you produce while on it does

stop the clomid
take your hcg
take you arimidex
start your clomid again when done with hcg
order more clomid and take it too
ag guys banner at bottom of forum sell it
keep your gains

and that should be that

if someones gonna say that wont work then be prepared to say why and bring evidence


FIGHT THE POWER!!!!
 
acneman said:
hcg dosent aromatize... the tes you produce while on it does

stop the clomid
take your hcg
take you arimidex
start your clomid again when done with hcg
order more clomid and take it too
ag guys banner at bottom of forum sell it
keep your gains

and that should be that

if someones gonna say that wont work then be prepared to say why and bring evidence



FIGHT THE POWER!!!!
Click to expand...
Why should he stop the clomid?
 
Dellyo said:
Why should he stop the clomid?
Click to expand...
he dosent need it while on the hcg
clomid cant revitalize your hpta while hcg is active
it wouldnt hurt as far as i know but since he has to wait for delivery of more
i recomend he stop until after hcg so by the time his clomid is gone he will have more
 
Dellyo said:
Why should he stop the clomid?
Click to expand...


I think he was advising me to stop the clomid because I am almost out and save it for the last week of HCG therapy. I just ordered more clomid so I'm good. According to the e book I purchased on this site written by George Spellwin titled "Chemical Wizardy" he recommends:

The optimal dosage for an athlete using HCG has never been established, but it is thought that a single shot of 1000 to 2000 IU per week will get the desired results. HCG must be refrigerated after it is mixed together and it then has a life of about 10 weeks. It is taken intramuscularly only. This drug is often available by order of a physician if you show symptoms of hypogonadism.

I am going to do one single shot of HCG (1500 iu's) a week along with the clomid 50mg/day and 1/2mg of arimidex eod. I'll let you guys know how it is. I feel safe and comfortable at these dosages. thanks guys for all your input. Next question will be how to avoid getting fucked buying legal gear (approx $225 per vial for 10 cc vial of sust or deca each!!!) and how to buy my own kits to make my own shit but that will be a new thread......
 
anabolic12 said:
Not trying to still you thunder, but it will bring your balls back by just using clomid. Hell, 5 years ago it was just clomid..
Click to expand...

Bro do u have any scientific proof for your statement?

Clomid is the anti-estrogen of choice for improving recovery of natural testosterone production after a cycle, improving testosterone production of endurance athletes, and is also effective in reducing risk of gynecomastia during a cycle employing aromatizable steroids.

Link:
http://www.mesomorphosis.com/steroid-profiles/clomid.htm

I've searched everywhere in the net and no where it says that Clomid restores the testes to size
 
You must spread some Karma around before giving it to AhMadKooL again.\
since i cant karma you i give you props for links and research

now i think that clomid will not swell youre nuts
but after clomid only pct your hpta is restored to a minimal acceptable level and your man raisins will eventually recover on there own

i believe hcg anti aromatase and clomid is the superior pct for maximum recovery and keepable gains
 
E2, who doesn't post here anymore, used to run only clomid post cycle with no HCG, and it worked for him everytime.

I'd say you will be fine with clomid.

I do favor HCG in my mix before I use my Clomid, however, it is possible to just use clomid. I'd run some AIFM with it though, if you could.

BMJ
 
I'd go with acneman's advice and start the HCG as soon as possible by itself at 500 i.u. ed for 10-20 days. Then start clomid for 2-3wks and don't use nolvadex at anytime during the pct because of the deca.
 
For me, it has only been clomid and arimidex..

And for the ball shrinkage: Time Fixes it:) I only cycle twice a year dough, but still, if you only use clomid, you balls will come back... Whith time.

HCG fixes that quickly i hear--

Good luck bro:)
 
Here is why you need clomid period. Clomid starts the whole chain of events, which means it will bring your balls back. HCG will bring your balls back right now where clomid could take a little bit, but, hcg alone will not help you. you need clomid to get your glands working again as hcg will shut them down. read this. it's true. it happened to me, and it happened to my buddy who just tried hcg only pct. he finished his cycle after me, so he just finished his hcg 4 days ago and couldn't nut on his woman last night. i couldn't get it hard for a week and had no desire and was so tired. then even watching porn i was slapping it like comon.

started clomid and hcg together, 250iu of hcg, 50mg of clomid, by the second day, my balls were back, for the second time, and i had libido again. took 500iu more of hcg and that's all i need cause my balls are back and big and bouncing around, so, clomid for another month will make sure they stay that way. my muscles also seemed to get very flat that week, i thought i was loosing everything, now that everythings working again, i see i didn't lose anything really, it was a week only, but without the clomid i sure woudl have.

bottom line, my balls shrunk a tiny tiny bit from my cycle, they started coming back before i started hcg.

no pct is better than hcg only pct
clomid only will help bring you back
clomid with hcg is good. stop hcg 3 weeks before stopping clomid

this is from experience now, im not just saying someone elses shit



The downside is that HCG too is suppressive of natural testosterone. Because it takes the place of LH. LH is not the first step in the chain of command, instead its manufactured in the pituitary under the response of Gonadotropin releasing hormone (GnRH) which is secreted from the hypothalamus. And since an LH mimicking agent is supplied exogenously, the negative feedback signal to the hypothalamus will still tell it to stop making GnRH, and so no natural LH is produced. This is why the product is always used in conjunction with a potent estrogen receptor antagonist like clomid or Nolvadex. When the androgen level in the body has dropped, these antagonists will lower estrogenic response creating a steroid deficit that signals the Hypothalamus to start making GnRH. When it does, after HCG therapy, testicle size is up again and shortly thereafter natural testosterone manufacture should return to normal. But therefore its crucial that users note that though HCG is essential after long cycles, it shouldn't be used without clomid or Nolvadex AND HCG should be discontinued at least two weeks before coming off Clomid or Nolvadex or else it will suppress natural testosterone itself.
 
jagerbombme said:
Here is why you need clomid period. Clomid starts the whole chain of events, which means it will bring your balls back. HCG will bring your balls back right now where clomid could take a little bit, but, hcg alone will not help you. you need clomid to get your glands working again as hcg will shut them down. read this. it's true. it happened to me, and it happened to my buddy who just tried hcg only pct. he finished his cycle after me, so he just finished his hcg 4 days ago and couldn't nut on his woman last night. i couldn't get it hard for a week and had no desire and was so tired. then even watching porn i was slapping it like comon.

started clomid and hcg together, 250iu of hcg, 50mg of clomid, by the second day, my balls were back, for the second time, and i had libido again. took 500iu more of hcg and that's all i need cause my balls are back and big and bouncing around, so, clomid for another month will make sure they stay that way. my muscles also seemed to get very flat that week, i thought i was loosing everything, now that everythings working again, i see i didn't lose anything really, it was a week only, but without the clomid i sure woudl have.

bottom line, my balls shrunk a tiny tiny bit from my cycle, they started coming back before i started hcg.

no pct is better than hcg only pct
clomid only will help bring you back
clomid with hcg is good. stop hcg 3 weeks before stopping clomid

this is from experience now, im not just saying someone elses shit



The downside is that HCG too is suppressive of natural testosterone. Because it takes the place of LH. LH is not the first step in the chain of command, instead its manufactured in the pituitary under the response of Gonadotropin releasing hormone (GnRH) which is secreted from the hypothalamus. And since an LH mimicking agent is supplied exogenously, the negative feedback signal to the hypothalamus will still tell it to stop making GnRH, and so no natural LH is produced. This is why the product is always used in conjunction with a potent estrogen receptor antagonist like clomid or Nolvadex. When the androgen level in the body has dropped, these antagonists will lower estrogenic response creating a steroid deficit that signals the Hypothalamus to start making GnRH. When it does, after HCG therapy, testicle size is up again and shortly thereafter natural testosterone manufacture should return to normal. But therefore its crucial that users note that though HCG is essential after long cycles, it shouldn't be used without clomid or Nolvadex AND HCG should be discontinued at least two weeks before coming off Clomid or Nolvadex or else it will suppress natural testosterone itself.
Click to expand...

Bro no offence, but PCT can be done without clomid; This is according to steroid guru Anthony Roberts: (Check out the bottom of this link)
http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/anthony-roberts/post-cycle-therapy.htm

It says:
"With this PCT, there will be a rapid increase in LH, FSH, and testosterone, as well as almost a complete block on all the factors that could be causing your natural hormones to be delayed in returning to baseline. For this reason, I feel that the second your cycle is over is when you should start this PCT (a week after your last shot, or the day after your last pill is fine). Remember, waiting for some of the extra androgens you’ve been taking to leave your body is nonsensical, as we want to start recovery as soon as possible to retain maximum gains. There is no evidence to suggest waiting any length of time after your cycle is over will increase PCT effectiveness…it simply prolongs the time you aren’t doing anything positive to regain your natural hormones. And how long do we run this for? Well…we need to stop the HCG relatively soon for reasons discussed earlier. But the Nolvadex, and Aromasin can be used for awhile longer. Ideally, we’d be getting weekly blood work, but we could also get it done monthly, and just running this PCT until we see our natural hormones restored…but weekly bloodwork isn’t really an option for most of us. Failing the option of monitoring recovery with blood-work, I’m going to give you my best thoughts on the time you should be running your PCT. It’s important to note I haven’t discussed nutrition or other compounds that may be beneficial…this is because in this article, I am primarily concerned with the restoration of hormonal function, nothing else. And with no further delays, here are my recommendations for PCT:

Week Nolvadex HCG Aromasin Vitamin E
1 20mgs/day 500iu/day 20mgs/day 1,000iu/day
2 20mgs/day 500iu/day 20mgs/day 1,000iu/day
3 20mgs/day 500iu/day 20mgs/day 1,000iu/day
4 20mgs/day 20mgs/day
5 20mgs/day
6 20mgs/day
"
 
Last edited:
AhMadKooL said:
Bro no offence, but PCT can be done without clomid; This is according to steroid guru Bill Rober
"
Click to expand...
absolutely

stimulate testes = hcg
prevent aromatization (why? see next line)=aromasin
prevent excess estrogen from shutting down tes prod = nolva

all pct aims for
stimulate testes
block estrogen to prevent testes shutdown
there is a progesterone issue in here somewhere but if you let those drugs clear system go with above
 
i agree with that, your using nolvadex which can replace clomid. you need one or the other apparently though. not just hcg with aromasin or hcg with aifm. you'll be fucked as i was and as my buddy is. im sorry i wasn't clear on that point. no offense taken bro

hehe, just trying to help, but just running hcg and an aromasin or aifm your fucked

need hcg and nolva and or clomid
 
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