how do you know when you are ready...

[needsize]

rbrown, you make some good points, I agree that many people think they are at their genetic limit both in size and strength, long before they actually are. For me that limit came after I had been training seriously for around 7 years, and I still put in another 3 years of busting my ass with no gains at all, before I decided it had to be the dark side for me.
I started off a 130lbs hardgainer, and my goals have always to be a competitive bodybuilder. there is no way I could meet those goals naturally. To date I've gone from 130lbs to 245lbs at 11% bf and just under 5'9", and even then its not enough. So there really was no other choice for me

 

[revexrevex]

Maybe you guys should distinguish between physique components, and a strength component?

 

[rbrown]

rbrown, you make some good points, I agree that many people think they are at their genetic limit both in size and strength, long before they actually are. For me that limit came after I had been training seriously for around 7 years, and I still put in another 3 years of busting my ass with no gains at all, before I decided it had to be the dark side for me.
I started off a 130lbs hardgainer, and my goals have always to be a competitive bodybuilder. there is no way I could meet those goals naturally. To date I've gone from 130lbs to 245lbs at 11% bf and just under 5'9", and even then its not enough. So there really was no other choice for me

I can respect that position. I have been training for a long time and do not look like a bodybuilder. Furthermore, I am fairly sure I could not look anything like a pro bodybuilder without using--though I'm fairly sure I could look pretty good and compete on a local level without drugs--which kind of goes to my point.

If looking like a pro is something that is important to you, and it obviously is, I think you just have to get as educated as you can and know when to say when. Based on guys I know who have taken stuff off of the street with little education on the matter, I can say that the drugs can be very dangerous; and in the case of one of my friends, it led to his premature death at 28 years old.

When looking at long time bodybuilders who apparently take loads of stuff like Ronnie Coleman and many others, it seems that they must be very educated about what they are doing--otherwise it seems they would be dropping dead like flies. I am convinced that those guys are getting expert medical advice on how and what to take and in what combinations. I also think they are taking the "good stuff" meaning that they are taking the kinds of drugs that maximize gains while minimizing harmful side effects.

When the kid at your local gym tries to do the same thing without the education and without the money or connections to get the "good stuff" I am concerned about what the results may be.

Really the point I am getting at though is that we are all, presumably, bodybuilding or strongman competing or powerlifting for FUN. When a hobby that is done for fun goes too far and causes you to miss out on a whole other part of your life (i.e. the later part of it), I think that is a shame and the result of short sightedness and a loss of perspective about what is important in life.

Happy training.

 

[needsize]

education is definitely the key, thats why it took me so long to do my first cycle. I am also under the supervision of my Doc who does blood tests every two months, all of which keep coming back in the normal range

 

[revexrevex]

Rbrown, judging from the pics at your website.... you could definetely compete as a bodybuilder.... linder on the other hand.....

 

[Sebass67]

what it basically comes down to is that i'm short (barely 5'6) and have very low BF, so while i'm relatively strong, i do not look it. i outlift many guys at the gym who i perceive as having much better (=bigger) physiques, and this pisses me off. this is one of the reasons why i'm contemplating it. however, like i said, i know i havent reached my natural limit yet, but i don't think i could wait 10yrs like needsize did.

Sounds like you got a good napolean complex going on...

 

[Synpax]

Here is some reasoning on why you should. I hopefully will learn something in the post that refutes it, if that is possible.

Why would you not want to get the most gain for each and every rep that you do? Why wait until you've met some kind of 'limit' before you take full advantage of making gains from each workout?

It's sort of like not eating right. Why waste a portion of your potential gains in the gym by not eating well enough to grow? Then ask - why waste a portion of your potential gains in the gym by not safely cycling?

 

[needsize]

Here is some reasoning on why you should. I hopefully will learn something in the post that refutes it, if that is possible.

Why would you not want to get the most gain for each and every rep that you do? Why wait until you've met some kind of 'limit' before you take full advantage of making gains from each workout?

It's sort of like not eating right. Why waste a portion of your potential gains in the gym by not eating well enough to grow? Then ask - why waste a portion of your potential gains in the gym by not safely cycling?

Because your body gets used to the steroids fairly quickly, and after a while its hard to keep growing even while juicing. So if you hit them up too early, you'll peak at a much smaller size. I've seen it happen both ways, guys start way too early, and waste the wicked growth you get off the first couple cycles, on size you could have easily gained naturally. i fall into the other category, and have size that guys who have done 5x the amount of cycles as me have trouble matching

 

[Lord_Suston]

if you are still making gains then don't use unless your livelyhood depends on it.... If you compete and get $ for it or get scholarsahips do it, but not if you are gaining and have a napolean complex