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How do you guys take your milk thistle while on dbol?or dont you?
- Thread starter bogazo
- Start date
justinjones1963
New member
Yes you can take it. 1mg per day is just fine. I have never heard it limits gains. Pure BS.
Drink tons of water with your dbol too. This will help your body.
Drink tons of water with your dbol too. This will help your body.
N
ninesecz
Guest
I take 1000mg's with each dose.. so that equals 4000mg ed no kidney or liver issues whatsoever taking 75 mg ed
Milk Thistle and Coffee
Can Caffeine Prevent Liver Damage?
If you are at risk for liver disease, drinking caffeinated coffee and soda may help protect you from getting it, a new study shows.
According to research presented at the Digestive Disease Week meeting in New Orleans, a researcher from the National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Diseases found people at high risk for liver problems can reduce their risk by drinking coffee and other caffeinated beverages.
There have been other studies that have shown this effect from caffeine, said lead researcher Dr. James E. Everhart. However, why caffeine protects against liver disease is not known.
"Caffeine blocks one receptor found in the brain and liver. This may have immunological effects, but this is really speculative," he added.
In their study, Everhart and his colleague, Dr. Constance E. Ruhl from Social and Scientific Systems in Silver Spring, Md., collected data on 5,944 men and women who were at high risk for liver injury.
The subject's risk came from excessive drinking, hepatitis B or C, iron overload, obesity or impaired sugar metabolism.
All the subjects participated in the third U.S. National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey.
As part of the study, the subjects were asked to report how much coffee, tea and soft drinks they consumed.
Everhart and Ruhl found the more coffee and caffeine these people drank, the less likely they were to develop liver injury. This finding was the same for all age, gender and ethnic groups.
In addition, the protective effect was stronger for caffeine than for coffee.
Laboratory work is needed to figure out why caffeine has this effect, Everhart said. "More importantly, this finding should stimulate more clinical research in people with liver disease to see whether either drinking coffee or consuming caffeine has an effect," he added.
Dr. Jonathan A. Dranoff, an assistant professor of internal medicine at Yale University, said the finding is "provocative and worthy of further investigation."
Dranoff noted that findings in population-based studies do not necessarily confirm that caffeine causes any change in liver health. At this point, he said, "it is impossible to say that increasing coffee consumption would cause one to have less advanced liver injury."
The next step, Dranoff said, is to do a study of patients and randomize them into caffeine or no-caffeine groups. "This is the best way to test if this hypothesis is true," he added.
"These findings are so shocking that they deserve much more intense investigation before you can draw any conclusion," Dranoff said.
Can Caffeine Prevent Liver Damage?
If you are at risk for liver disease, drinking caffeinated coffee and soda may help protect you from getting it, a new study shows.
According to research presented at the Digestive Disease Week meeting in New Orleans, a researcher from the National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Diseases found people at high risk for liver problems can reduce their risk by drinking coffee and other caffeinated beverages.
There have been other studies that have shown this effect from caffeine, said lead researcher Dr. James E. Everhart. However, why caffeine protects against liver disease is not known.
"Caffeine blocks one receptor found in the brain and liver. This may have immunological effects, but this is really speculative," he added.
In their study, Everhart and his colleague, Dr. Constance E. Ruhl from Social and Scientific Systems in Silver Spring, Md., collected data on 5,944 men and women who were at high risk for liver injury.
The subject's risk came from excessive drinking, hepatitis B or C, iron overload, obesity or impaired sugar metabolism.
All the subjects participated in the third U.S. National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey.
As part of the study, the subjects were asked to report how much coffee, tea and soft drinks they consumed.
Everhart and Ruhl found the more coffee and caffeine these people drank, the less likely they were to develop liver injury. This finding was the same for all age, gender and ethnic groups.
In addition, the protective effect was stronger for caffeine than for coffee.
Laboratory work is needed to figure out why caffeine has this effect, Everhart said. "More importantly, this finding should stimulate more clinical research in people with liver disease to see whether either drinking coffee or consuming caffeine has an effect," he added.
Dr. Jonathan A. Dranoff, an assistant professor of internal medicine at Yale University, said the finding is "provocative and worthy of further investigation."
Dranoff noted that findings in population-based studies do not necessarily confirm that caffeine causes any change in liver health. At this point, he said, "it is impossible to say that increasing coffee consumption would cause one to have less advanced liver injury."
The next step, Dranoff said, is to do a study of patients and randomize them into caffeine or no-caffeine groups. "This is the best way to test if this hypothesis is true," he added.
"These findings are so shocking that they deserve much more intense investigation before you can draw any conclusion," Dranoff said.
taoiron
New member
Bros... I came across this info (on Milk Thistle)… Pretty interesting stuff!! I am not saying it proves anything but it is certainly an interesting read!!
Taoiron
there's persistant bullnuts circulating stating that silymarin is bad to take along with orals because it increases the rate at which the liver metabolises the drug. this is false. either no effect or the opposite has been found with both alcohol and aspirin:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=3398694&dopt=Abstract
in vitro evidence suggests that silymarin actually inhibits drug metabolism, causing steroids to circulate in the body longer. most steroid breakdown is done by the cyp3a4 enzyme, which is significantly(dose dependant, but at least a 65% slower rate) inhibited by silymarin:
http://dmd.aspetjournals.org/cgi/content/full/28/11/1270
so why have users reported decreased steroid effects when using silymarin when the opposite should be true?
i found this study which has fascinating consequences:
http://carcin.oupjournals.org/cgi/content/full/22/9/1399
a choice excerpt:
"SB decreased androgen-stimulated growth and prostate-specific antigen (PSA) levels in LNCaP cells (6). In this study, we further evaluated the effects of SM and SB on androgen action. We found that SM and SB down-regulate several androgen-regulated genes, including PSA, human glandular kallikrein (hK2) and an immunophilin, FKBP51, mainly by inhibiting the transactivation activity of the AR. More interestingly, we show that SM and SB can inhibit nuclear localization of the AR. Thus this report provides a novel mechanism by which SM and SB inhibit function of the AR."
or, in plain(er) english, when an androgen comes to a cell it passes through the cell membrane and binds to an androgen receptor in the cytoplasm. upon binding, the receptor/androgen bundle float to the nucleus to tell which tell the cell to alter its behaviour, i.e. in this case, "synthesize more protein and grow larger". different androgens probably relay different messages, which is why particular stacks seem to be more effective than others, despite all binding to the same receptor.
silymarin inhibits this either by preventing androgen/receptor bundles from ever reaching the nucleus, or by allowing the bundle to drift out of the nucleus easily once there
Taoiron
there's persistant bullnuts circulating stating that silymarin is bad to take along with orals because it increases the rate at which the liver metabolises the drug. this is false. either no effect or the opposite has been found with both alcohol and aspirin:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=3398694&dopt=Abstract
in vitro evidence suggests that silymarin actually inhibits drug metabolism, causing steroids to circulate in the body longer. most steroid breakdown is done by the cyp3a4 enzyme, which is significantly(dose dependant, but at least a 65% slower rate) inhibited by silymarin:
http://dmd.aspetjournals.org/cgi/content/full/28/11/1270
so why have users reported decreased steroid effects when using silymarin when the opposite should be true?
i found this study which has fascinating consequences:
http://carcin.oupjournals.org/cgi/content/full/22/9/1399
a choice excerpt:
"SB decreased androgen-stimulated growth and prostate-specific antigen (PSA) levels in LNCaP cells (6). In this study, we further evaluated the effects of SM and SB on androgen action. We found that SM and SB down-regulate several androgen-regulated genes, including PSA, human glandular kallikrein (hK2) and an immunophilin, FKBP51, mainly by inhibiting the transactivation activity of the AR. More interestingly, we show that SM and SB can inhibit nuclear localization of the AR. Thus this report provides a novel mechanism by which SM and SB inhibit function of the AR."
or, in plain(er) english, when an androgen comes to a cell it passes through the cell membrane and binds to an androgen receptor in the cytoplasm. upon binding, the receptor/androgen bundle float to the nucleus to tell which tell the cell to alter its behaviour, i.e. in this case, "synthesize more protein and grow larger". different androgens probably relay different messages, which is why particular stacks seem to be more effective than others, despite all binding to the same receptor.
silymarin inhibits this either by preventing androgen/receptor bundles from ever reaching the nucleus, or by allowing the bundle to drift out of the nucleus easily once there
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