How do I solve this 5x5 paradox of lifts??

[CobraUTAH]

My current split is

Monday - Chest Calves
Incline barbell for the chest 5x5
Tuesday - Bi's Tri's
barbell curl for bi's 5x5 weighted dips for tri's 5x5
Wednesday - Rest
Thursday - Shoulders Back
deads for back 5x5 seated barbell press for shoulders 5x5
Friday - Legs Calves
squats for legs 5x5

I'm lazy and not doing abs at all right now.

I've listed my 5x5 compound for each body part. My question is how can I or do I need to seperate back day from leg day. Right now it doesn't seem to bad but I'm increasing weight and I'm worried that I could over train or hurt myself at the end of the week doing legs after a killer deads workout on thursday. Before I added deads it was perfect and nothing was over worked. Chest was three days before shoulder work and bi's were two days before back work. Tri's were on there own instead of being tired after chest in the same day. Legs were at the end of the week. I can't figure out how to arrange it so that deads and legs are away from each other and so that all the other stuff is also properly arranged. Do I even need to seperate the deads and leg days?

 

[Exodus]

Monday - Chest Calves
Incline barbell for the chest 5x5
Tuesday - Bi's Tri's
barbell curl for bi's 5x5 weighted dips for tri's 5x5
Wednesday - Rest
Thursday - Shoulders Back
deads for back 5x5 seated barbell press for shoulders 5x5
Friday - Legs Calves
squats for legs 5x5

ok...........

your training your chest on monday, chest exercises like bench, use triceps as the main muscle, then you hit triceps the next day, they are not recovered, your doing more damage than good.

then you do deads on thursday, which heavily involve the legs, then you do the legs the next day, this is worse for your legs and back then the chest/tricep issue i stated.

this is just my opinion, but i have recomended this to you before, and you said no to my routine suggestion, but now your back again. so try my idea:

monday - chest and tricep
tuesday - back and bicep
wenesday - off
thrusday - legs
friday - shoulders and traps
saturday - off
sunday - off

just my .02 cents man, thats all.

X

 

[shwaym]

deads the day before squats aint a good idea. try to either change your split or alternate deads and squats each week

 

[CobraUTAH]

Exodus I appreciate your reply and I remember you telling me this before. When I first started 5x5 I was doing chest tri's and back bi's together. My problem with it was that on chest tri's day my tri's would be to tired to go all out after doing my chest routine, and on bi's back day the same thing my bi's would be to tired from the back lifts. It's not that I don't want to try it, it's just that it didn't work well for me. When I do tri's the day after chest they've regained there energy and are just fine. Although they may have worked some the day before they are far from fatiqued.

Why is it bad to lift tri's after a chest day or squats the day after a deadlift day? I'm asking sincerely. I know what it seems like it's doing but is it really that bad? Sure you use tri's with bench but they aren't being targeted directly and it's for only nine sets total. I justify doing this because although it seems like a lot of tri's close together it's only for two out of seven days of the week the rest is pretty much rest time. Also on deads you use a great deal of back and some hams and glutes when lifting. I feel a bit sore on squat day but not anything I can't deal with. Same applies here I feel that I've maybe worked my legs 30% on deads day and then the next day I go 100% legs and then have five full days of rest before they work again. In my experience so far it hasn't backfired. I still want a perfect split because I love the deads, but without them things are much easier it seems. I'll keep thinking about it and thanks for the replies everyone.

 

[Backlash]

I'm going to do:

1. back and shoulders
2. bis and tris
3. rest
4. legs
5. rest
6. chest
7. rest

Separates most things well. Bis might be a bit tired on Tues, but you don't need to do much bi work anyway.

 

[Exodus]

weather you realize it or not, damage is being done that needs time to rest. i know your kind of new but its like this.

here is the key to muscle growth for size or strength.

1st stimulate the muscle - i.e. your workout.

2nd recover back to the point where you stimulated your muscles in step 1.

3rd. let your body recover more so that it grows stronger and bigger.

think this....... you body can handle 225 on the bench for 10 reps at 100%. you workout and do 225 for 10 reps, your body's tissue has trauma and needs to recover. so now your body is at about 50%. so you have to wait for it to get back to 100% just to be in the same place you just were. now you rest a little more and now your body can do 225 for 10 reps using only 95% of your body's maximum engergy.

so take your triceps. after your monday workout your triceps are down to say 75% if you work them out on tuesday (isolating them) then they are probably down to 25% and then you have wednesday to rest, then thursday you hit shoulder which is also a big tricep mover. so you triceps did recover back to 45% by thursday, and you hit them again, they are down to 15-20%. then you have friday, saturday, and sunday to rest. now its monday and time to hit chest again, and your triceps are only at 80-85%, so now your chest and tricep size and strength are going to suffer.

and with the back and legs doing deads thursday, and squats on friday, they are larger bodyparts and take even longer to recover than the triceps.

does that make sense???

X

 

[CobraUTAH]

I think I already figured out a good split solution let me know if it looks okay.

Monday - Legs squat 5x5 leg curls 2x10 leg extension or lunges 2x10, plus calf work
Tuesday - Chest incline barbell 5x5 dumbbell flat bench 2x10 cable flyes 2x10
Wednesday - Rest
Thursday - Back & Shoulders deads 5x5 wide pull downs 2x10 bent rows 2x10
barbell seated press 5x5 lateral raises 2x10 rear delts on cable machine 2x10
Friday - Bi's & Tri's barbell curls 5x5 weighted dips 5x5 supersets,
incline curls 2x10 dumbbell tri's press 2x10 supersets, 1 arm preacher curls 2x10 tri pushdowns 2x10
Saturday - Rest
Sunday - Rest

This routine puts legs Monday which will hopefully mean great leg days after a weekend of rest. Then chest tuesday. Rest wednesday, and thursday after three days of rest since my last leg work I do deads and two days after chest day I do shoulders.
Then friday I do arms both bi's and tri's together. they maybe a bit tired from thursday but since they are smaller groups I figure they don't need as much TLC in the program and can be last in the week.

 

[FatRat]

If you need an idea, this is the split I have been running for the past few months with great success. Tis seperates things out pretty well, although it will get a little tough onthe lower back if you hit Squats and Deads every week.

Mon - Legs
Tues - Chest , Rotator Cuff, Abs
Wed - Off
Thur - Shoulders, Back, Grip
Fri - Bi, Tri

 

[CobraUTAH]

Exodus I'm not really new to training or the idea of rest. Although I'll be the first to tell you that I'm a chronic over trainer although much less so in recent years. Basically your saying that it's better to work the same basic muscle groups such as when doing leg day or deadlift day farther apart because your doing less overall damage each session? Instead of doing deads and then legs back to back one right after the other and tearing down to say 25%, it's better to work monday legs and tear down to 75% and then deads on thursday after a recovery and tear again down to only say 80%. Your saying that it takes longer to recover from back to back leg work days than it takes to recover from leg day followed by two rest days and then another leg day? Sorry I had to say that twice to understand it myself.

 

[Debaser]

I think the idea of giving arms their own day is misguided, unnecessary, and mostly propagated (at least at first) by fraudulent bodybuilding magazines.

I have to go to school at the moment but I'll give you some advice upon my return...