How can I increase my Pullup reps?

[deathdroprob]

ok Im about 100kgs and I can barly do 5 pull ups using a full ROM (I mean the double over hand grip, or are they called Chin Ups?).

My gym has a machine for assistants but I find the motion VERY unatural and it doesnt have grips to where Id like to grip, if you can understand that, its only got a very wide and very close handles, and I was going for just out side shoulder width.

I used to have 2 training buddie but they have school now and well be going at seoerate times, they used to lift me by the knees once I hit failure but this method was also useless.

I do deads and lying BB rows and the occasional T Bar Rows.
I just thought I say that as I think most of you will ask if I do them

thoughts?

 

[silver_shadow]

it sucks but pull downs (narrow and wide grip) may help to build up some strength.

the other thing i'd do is to get a dipping belt and sling on some weight. start with 5lbs and do maybe around 3 reps. the following week, try to increase to 10lbs and so on. after some time your 5 rep max should be higher than before.

 

[tropo]

it sucks but pull downs (narrow and wide grip) may help to build up some strength.

the other thing i'd do is to get a dipping belt and sling on some weight. start with 5lbs and do maybe around 3 reps. the following week, try to increase to 10lbs and so on. after some time your 5 rep max should be higher than before.

A great idea and it always worked well for me.

If you keep trying to increase reps by using the same weight (in this case bodyweight) it can be very difficult to improve.

When you start lifting heavier, after awhile the lighter weight (your bodyweight) will start feeling much lighter and you should be able to rep higher.

 

[H_T_]

start by doing 50 total reps, taking as many sets as you need to get there. next time around, on your first set or two, you'll add another rep or 2.....

 

[redguru]

Use a partner. Do 1 rep, he does 1. Work your way up till some one fails and start back at 1 again. Do it till you can't do a pull up.

 

[SofaGeorge]

start by doing 50 total reps, taking as many sets as you need to get there. next time around, on your first set or two, you'll add another rep or 2.....

We have a winner.

Many a year ago... THE back routine was to do 80 reps of pullups... no matter how many sets it took. First time I started doing it... I was doing a lot of sets of 1 or 2 at the end. But to this day I've found nothing that comes close to giving you the results of that routine.

The assisted pullup machine destroys your ability to advance. It is actually a counterproductive tool. Pulldowns and weighted pullups won't help you get there either.

The only thing I've seen in 30+ years of lifting that will improve your numbers is to set a high rep goal and hit it no matter how many sets it takes. Typically... after a month or two your first set will really rock for numbers.

And nothing... absolutely nothing gives you the results that an 80 rep pullup routine does for developing back. Nothing even comes close.

 

[tropo]

start by doing 50 total reps, taking as many sets as you need to get there. next time around, on your first set or two, you'll add another rep or 2.....

IMO doing 50 reps is not a good way to train for the OP. It doesn't make any sense. It would lead to serious overtraining in heavy individuals that can only do 1 - 5 reps at bodyweight and probably lead to elbow and shoulder injuries too.

If a person could manage at least 10 reps on their first set, then perhaps it would be ok.

Would you do 50 reps on a bench press weight that allowed only 5 reps on your first set? You'd probably end up doing 15 to 20 very heavy sets to complete your 50 reps if you did.

Would you start bench pressing on a 5 rep max weight? I don't think you would.

Heavy people incapable of many bodyweight reps on chinups should work up to bodyweight with some warmup pulldowns and not do too many sets.

 

[Longhorn85]

thoughts?

Just keep doing ém

 

[JimBoy]

We have a winner.

Many a year ago... THE back routine was to do 80 reps of pullups... no matter how many sets it took. First time I started doing it... I was doing a lot of sets of 1 or 2 at the end. But to this day I've found nothing that comes close to giving you the results of that routine.

The assisted pullup machine destroys your ability to advance. It is actually a counterproductive tool. Pulldowns and weighted pullups won't help you get there either.

The only thing I've seen in 30+ years of lifting that will improve your numbers is to set a high rep goal and hit it no matter how many sets it takes. Typically... after a month or two your first set will really rock for numbers.

And nothing... absolutely nothing gives you the results that an 80 rep pullup routine does for developing back. Nothing even comes close.

Would this be your whole back routine, or would you do other exercises?

 

[Sim882]

I have been doing 5 reps of both pull ups and chins, and just increasing the weight, to the point where I can now do them both weighted, with 25kg (55lb) and 30 kg (66lb) respectively.

I have done these as my dominant back exercise (over the barbel row, b/c I assume that since I could do more weight on chins/pull ups), it must be better exercise.

Looking at me though u wouldn't think this - would it be worth doing the 80 rep routine in this instance (it take me 4 sets I think). It just seems strange doing 20 rep sets. But I want to try something different for back

We have a winner.

Many a year ago... THE back routine was to do 80 reps of pullups... no matter how many sets it took. First time I started doing it... I was doing a lot of sets of 1 or 2 at the end. But to this day I've found nothing that comes close to giving you the results of that routine.

The assisted pullup machine destroys your ability to advance. It is actually a counterproductive tool. Pulldowns and weighted pullups won't help you get there either.

The only thing I've seen in 30+ years of lifting that will improve your numbers is to set a high rep goal and hit it no matter how many sets it takes. Typically... after a month or two your first set will really rock for numbers.

And nothing... absolutely nothing gives you the results that an 80 rep pullup routine does for developing back. Nothing even comes close.

 

[u418936]

IMO doing 50 reps is not a good way to train for the OP. It doesn't make any sense. It would lead to serious overtraining in heavy individuals that can only do 1 - 5 reps at bodyweight and probably lead to elbow and shoulder injuries too.

If a person could manage at least 10 reps on their first set, then perhaps it would be ok.

Would you do 50 reps on a bench press weight that allowed only 5 reps on your first set? You'd probably end up doing 15 to 20 very heavy sets to complete your 50 reps if you did.

As a heavy guy, I agree with this logic. If you're not good at pull-ups, trying to do 50 reps with your bodyweight is suicidal in terms of making progress, because it's way too much volume and intensity.

I've found that doing three sets to failure twice a week works pretty well. At 250 lbs, I went from a 3-rep max to an 8-rep max this way in three months. I also do band-assisted pull-ups for higher reps when I feel like I can handle the extra volume.

Pull-downs seem to be worthless unless you're doing them for super high reps with a very light weight for active recovery. Also, adding weight before you're ready can lead to major elbow pain, which I've experienced.

 

[Longhorn85]

And nothing... absolutely nothing gives you the results that an 80 rep pullup routine does for developing back. Nothing even comes close.

Can you be more specific when you say results? Do you mean size? Wide lats? Also does the grip stay the same (I use a shoulder-width grip with palms facing towards me, thumbs not wrapped around the bar).

Thanks

 

[deathdroprob]

Would this be your whole back routine, or would you do other exercises?

As of late, since I have started attempting Pullups my Routine looks like:

1) Pull up and/or PullDowns 3-4 sets (Pull ups till failure) Downs 12,10,8 or 12,12,12
2) Dead lifts 3x5/5x5/3x12,10,8 (Deads are my main back movement)
3) Low Cable Rows 3x12,10,8/Lying BB Rows 3x5/3x12,12,12
4) T-Bar Rows (with a BB and low cable row handle) 3x5/3x12,10,8/ 'Chainsaws' 3x5/3x12,10,8

I do Biceps 2 days before my back routine.
Should I try doin 5 rep maxes on Bicep and Back days?

 

[funkyfresh]

I would suggest going for 25 reps total as oppossed to 50 to start with.

If you think about it, a lot of rep schemes...5x5, 4x6, 3x8 all account of around a 25 rep total. So this may be a good starting point.

I normally do 2 sets of pullups at the start of my back workout, then move onto to 2 sets of pulldowns immediately after. Pullups are improving very well so far. I must admit, I'm fairly new to this exercise...but Im fairly pleased with my progress
The main issue I have is I can do like 2 sets of pullups and get 8 - 12 reps fairly easily. But if I go for another set, I'm lucky if I can get 4!..lol. I don't know what it is. So at the moment I just focus on 2 sets and do as many reps as I can on those until I can get a 25 rep total easily in 2 sets. Then it's time to add some weight

 

[SofaGeorge]

Can you be more specific when you say results? Do you mean size? Wide lats? Also does the grip stay the same (I use a shoulder-width grip with palms facing towards me, thumbs not wrapped around the bar).

Thanks

Bro, try hitting it. It's the training routine that builds a massive back. It gives you thick wide lats... and honestly nothing else does it this well to give you the thickness.

One of the elements of lifting that most people don't come to grasp until way too late in the game is that a VERY few exercises give the best results... and typically everything else is a distant second or third. For chest, dips and incline dumbbells rock for chest development... and pretty much everything else is second place. In the same way, on back - pullups are king. Even deads and barbell rows are second place to pullups... and deads are a great exercise. It's just that pullups are that much better for building muscle.

Truthfully, most people have really crappy backs. In the 70s and 80s there used to be a saying "If your legs suck... you aren't squatting. If your back sucks... you aren't doing pullups." The simplicity of that message somehow got lsot over the years.

Nobody starts out being able to do an 80 rep routine easily... but if you attack it... within about two months you can get it done in 4-5 sets. And then you can add rows and deads on top of your pullups.

This BS about some guys being too "heavy" is just that... pure BS. When I was 262 lbs... I did my sets with a 100 lbs dumbbell hanging from my dip belt. (My goal was to hit 200 lbs on pullups. Art Zeller could do a 200 lbs pullup and a 300 lbs dip. I started to tear my shoulder at [I think] 180 lbs... and have only done body weight since. That was 5 years ago.) But every guy with size I know starts out saying they can't do it... it's too much... blah blah blah... and then if they actually go for it they come back with a real respect for what it does for them. The funny part of this is dinky little skinny guys have just as much trouble starting trying to do 80 reps. It sounds like a lot... until you do it for a while and then you see it isn't a big deal.

 

[SouthernLord]

I might try that 80 rep thing. Pull ups and Dips are my two main upper body lifts. I have been told that pull ups and dips are the upper body version of the DL and Squat.
I have never done this but I have seen people recommend "greasing the groove" with pull ups. Just casually do a few sets every day and never go to failure. It is supposedly a sure fire way to add reps.

 

[Megalomaniac]

do more..... J/K, I believe that constantly doing them through the day and using the weight assisted machine is the way to go.

 

[silver_shadow]

As a heavy guy, I agree with this logic. If you're not good at pull-ups, trying to do 50 reps with your bodyweight is suicidal in terms of making progress, because it's way too much volume and intensity.

I've found that doing three sets to failure twice a week works pretty well. At 250 lbs, I went from a 3-rep max to an 8-rep max this way in three months. I also do band-assisted pull-ups for higher reps when I feel like I can handle the extra volume.

Pull-downs seem to be worthless unless you're doing them for super high reps with a very light weight for active recovery. Also, adding weight before you're ready can lead to major elbow pain, which I've experienced.

exactly! if you aren't good AND you are heavy (rob is 220lbs), then you probably won't get up to 50 anyway even with 1 rep sets later on.

just get a dipping belt and work on doing lower reps

 

[tropo]

Bro, try hitting it. It's the training routine that builds a massive back. It gives you thick wide lats... and honestly nothing else does it this well to give you the thickness.

One of the elements of lifting that most people don't come to grasp until way too late in the game is that a VERY few exercises give the best results... and typically everything else is a distant second or third. For chest, dips and incline dumbbells rock for chest development... and pretty much everything else is second place. In the same way, on back - pullups are king. Even deads and barbell rows are second place to pullups... and deads are a great exercise. It's just that pullups are that much better for building muscle.

Truthfully, most people have really crappy backs. In the 70s and 80s there used to be a saying "If your legs suck... you aren't squatting. If your back sucks... you aren't doing pullups." The simplicity of that message somehow got lsot over the years.

Nobody starts out being able to do an 80 rep routine easily... but if you attack it... within about two months you can get it done in 4-5 sets. And then you can add rows and deads on top of your pullups.

This BS about some guys being too "heavy" is just that... pure BS. When I was 262 lbs... I did my sets with a 100 lbs dumbbell hanging from my dip belt. (My goal was to hit 200 lbs on pullups. Art Zeller could do a 200 lbs pullup and a 300 lbs dip. I started to tear my shoulder at [I think] 180 lbs... and have only done body weight since. That was 5 years ago.) But every guy with size I know starts out saying they can't do it... it's too much... blah blah blah... and then if they actually go for it they come back with a real respect for what it does for them. The funny part of this is dinky little skinny guys have just as much trouble starting trying to do 80 reps. It sounds like a lot... until you do it for a while and then you see it isn't a big deal.

This whole idea about doing 80 reps of pullups is just hocus pocus.

Just the fact that for 5 years you haven't gotten any better at chinups because of a shoulder tear caused by your obsessive enthusiam tells it all.

You actually think that a heavy guy who can only manage 5 reps on a set can make it to 16 - 20 reps for 4-5 sets in 2 months? That is pure BS.

 

[SofaGeorge]

Bro, I'm not sure why you would describe an effective routine as hocus pocus... but I'm guessing you aren't highly experienced. I'd be astounded if your pulldown routine is giving you significant back development. I've never seen anyone get there that way... but if it is working for you... great.

I stopped doing weighted pullups when I experienced a shoulder tear. I never stopped doing chins... just weighted. I had a heavy dumbbell tied to me and as I pulled up I could feel the burn as the tear started... and I had pretty purple streaks the next morning. I went to bodyweight after that simply because I think there is a limit to how much I'm willing to risk. I box, kickbox, and practice judo. I want my body intact for more than weightlifting.

I'm not really sure what you mean about how I haven't gotten "better" at chins and pullups in 5 years. At 240 lbs, I pull 25-26 reps on my first set at bodyweight. It's about the same number I pull when I am at 260. I don't need my numbers going "up" to develop more back... I don't want more back... and adding a couple reps numbers isn't a goal for me.

Do I think a "heavy" guy who pulls 5 reps can make it to 16-20 in a couple months. No... not if he is a lazy fat ass with a bad attitude... but I've seen a lot of guys over the last 30 years who were 220-240 who swore they couldn't do it and they were there in 6 weeks.

Truthfully bro, you come across as an inexperienced guy who gives bad advice and gets ticked off when someone contradicts them.

I don't post a lot here any more... so good luck to you.

 

[tehkevroy]

hey bro have u ever try to fuck chin up ? :O

joking <3

 

[thebadguy54]

Bro, I'm not sure why you would describe an effective routine as hocus pocus... but I'm guessing you aren't highly experienced. I'd be astounded if your pulldown routine is giving you significant back development. I've never seen anyone get there that way... but if it is working for you... great.

I stopped doing weighted pullups when I experienced a shoulder tear. I never stopped doing chins... just weighted. I had a heavy dumbbell tied to me and as I pulled up I could feel the burn as the tear started... and I had pretty purple streaks the next morning. I went to bodyweight after that simply because I think there is a limit to how much I'm willing to risk. I box, kickbox, and practice judo. I want my body intact for more than weightlifting.

I'm not really sure what you mean about how I haven't gotten "better" at chins and pullups in 5 years. At 240 lbs, I pull 25-26 reps on my first set at bodyweight. It's about the same number I pull when I am at 260. I don't need my numbers going "up" to develop more back... I don't want more back... and adding a couple reps numbers isn't a goal for me.

Do I think a "heavy" guy who pulls 5 reps can make it to 16-20 in a couple months. No... not if he is a lazy fat ass with a bad attitude... but I've seen a lot of guys over the last 30 years who were 220-240 who swore they couldn't do it and they were there in 6 weeks.

Truthfully bro, you come across as an inexperienced guy who gives bad advice and gets ticked off when someone contradicts them.

I don't post a lot here any more... so good luck to you.

You guys need to listen to this guy... he knows what he is talking about.

About 12-18 months ago I could only do about 10-12 pull-ups (I weigh about 200 lbs.). Not only was 10-12 my max., but each set it got worse and worse (8, 6, 4).

A friend of mine told me to try and hit 120 (instead of 80) "even if it takes two fuckin hours", so I did. The first time I tried this, I had to quit after 100 and my lats were sore for 3 days. But it got easier and easier...

To make a long story short, now I warm up with 3 sets of 15 before EVERY workout (6 days a week) and I can do at least 25 in a row. I can do sets of 12 all fuckin day and I've done up to 200 reps in a day. I can also do 2 reps with 1/2 my body weight (100 lbs.) hanging from my waist.

The other thing is I put 2 inches on my chest measurement but my weight and bench press strength stayed the same so it was all in the lats.

Try it and you'll see.

 

[tropo]

Truthfully bro, you come across as an inexperienced guy who gives bad advice and gets ticked off when someone contradicts them.

I don't post a lot here any more... so good luck to you.

No, I just give back what you give. When someone comes along with a comment that what someone said on a forum is "pure BS" then what do you expect? There a right and a wrong way to contradict someone, and your way only fuels conflict.

I stand by my original comments that suggesting that a heavy guy embark on an 80 rep pull-up routine is ridiculous advice. A person who could only rep 5 on his first set would have to do somewhere in the vicinity of 30 - 40 sets (or more) to reach a goal of 80 reps.

Why does a pull-up routine have to be so unscientific and fly in the face of all logic and common sense? Would you train any other body part this way?

If you continue to rep out the same number of reps for 5 years without increasing the weight (as you did after your injury) then where's your progress? You say you don't need to go up because you don't want more back. On a bodybuilding forum that doesn't make any sense as most bodybuilders want to get BIG and continue to get BIGGER.

There's no need to do more than 3 or 4 sets at any number of reps. A person who does less reps because he's heavy or weak (or both) is actually lifting heavier relative to his capabilities than the guy who can rep high. He could very quickly become overtrained on this exercise and would risk injury if he attempted to do anywhere near the number of reps you propose.

With advice such as yours, we're lucky you don't post on here much anymore.

 

[SofaGeorge]

No, I just give back what you give. When someone comes along with a comment that what someone said on a forum is "pure BS" then what do you expect? There a right and a wrong way to contradict someone, and your way only fuels conflict.

I stand by my original comments that suggesting that a heavy guy embark on an 80 rep pull-up routine is ridiculous advice. A person who could only rep 5 on his first set would have to do somewhere in the vicinity of 30 - 40 sets (or more) to reach a goal of 80 reps.

Why does a pull-up routine have to be so unscientific and fly in the face of all logic and common sense? Would you train any other body part this way?

If you continue to rep out the same number of reps for 5 years without increasing the weight (as you did after your injury) then where's your progress? You say you don't need to go up because you don't want more back. On a bodybuilding forum that doesn't make any sense as most bodybuilders want to get BIG and continue to get BIGGER.

There's no need to do more than 3 or 4 sets at any number of reps. A person who does less reps because he's heavy or weak (or both) is actually lifting heavier relative to his capabilities than the guy who can rep high. He could very quickly become overtrained on this exercise and would risk injury if he attempted to do anywhere near the number of reps you propose.

With advice such as yours, we're lucky you don't post on here much anymore.

For laughs bro... post a pic of your awesome results.

 

[thebadguy54]

No, I just give back what you give. When someone comes along with a comment that what someone said on a forum is "pure BS" then what do you expect? There a right and a wrong way to contradict someone, and your way only fuels conflict.

I stand by my original comments that suggesting that a heavy guy embark on an 80 rep pull-up routine is ridiculous advice. A person who could only rep 5 on his first set would have to do somewhere in the vicinity of 30 - 40 sets (or more) to reach a goal of 80 reps.

Why does a pull-up routine have to be so unscientific and fly in the face of all logic and common sense? Would you train any other body part this way?

If you continue to rep out the same number of reps for 5 years without increasing the weight (as you did after your injury) then where's your progress? You say you don't need to go up because you don't want more back. On a bodybuilding forum that doesn't make any sense as most bodybuilders want to get BIG and continue to get BIGGER.

There's no need to do more than 3 or 4 sets at any number of reps. A person who does less reps because he's heavy or weak (or both) is actually lifting heavier relative to his capabilities than the guy who can rep high. He could very quickly become overtrained on this exercise and would risk injury if he attempted to do anywhere near the number of reps you propose.

With advice such as yours, we're lucky you don't post on here much anymore.

The number 80 isn't written in stone brother. It's only a suggestion based on SofaGeorges personal experience and results. Perhaps it may be a bit much for the OP but the principle remains the same.

deathdroprob could start out with 40 or 50 as a goal and work towards 70, 80 or even more. If someone told me to do 1500 pull-ups per month a few years ago I would have said "what about the bent-over DB rows?". The bottom line is my back has responded well to high rep pull-ups and doing 1000 in a month will cause me little to no soreness.

There is more than one way to skin a cat. Stimulating the muscles to grow by adding weight isn't the only way for them to adapt and respond (by growing) to training. You can kill the muscles with weight or with reps... it doesn't matter. Your diet will determine wether you grow or not IMO.

 

[fortunatesun]

Re: How can I increase my Pull up reps?

I don't think the 'heavy guy' argument is a good one. This is speaking from personal experience. When I was still novice in the gym I was carrying more than a little useless weight and had a real problem going past 4 at a time. I tried several ideas and then read about the 50 rep method so I thought give it a shot.

As expected, I didn't come close to the first day. I When I finally did, it felt like I'd leveled the playing field. Then 15 sets, slowly down to 5. Really, you'll be surprised how many you can actually do when you think in terms of total number@as much time as you need as opposed to x number per set with a time limitation. It takes the pressure off. For sure I looked like a total newbie struggling out yet another 2 reps, but this technique was recommended by Arnold and I was determined to make it work, which it did.

I'm not guaranteeing this method will work best for you- every one's different. But don't limit yourself by admitting to being a deficient that can't do what everyone else can do.

 

[Longhorn85]

Bro, try hitting it. It's the training routine that builds a massive back. It gives you thick wide lats... and honestly nothing else does it this well to give you the thickness.

Interesting advice, thanks. I will keep at it because I want to be able to do more chins, but I will stick with body weight.

I'll let you know in a few months how it went.

 

[Scotsman]

Bro, try hitting it. It's the training routine that builds a massive back. It gives you thick wide lats... and honestly nothing else does it this well to give you the thickness.

One of the elements of lifting that most people don't come to grasp until way too late in the game is that a VERY few exercises give the best results... and typically everything else is a distant second or third. For chest, dips and incline dumbbells rock for chest development... and pretty much everything else is second place. In the same way, on back - pullups are king. Even deads and barbell rows are second place to pullups... and deads are a great exercise. It's just that pullups are that much better for building muscle.

Truthfully, most people have really crappy backs. In the 70s and 80s there used to be a saying "If your legs suck... you aren't squatting. If your back sucks... you aren't doing pullups." The simplicity of that message somehow got lsot over the years.

Nobody starts out being able to do an 80 rep routine easily... but if you attack it... within about two months you can get it done in 4-5 sets. And then you can add rows and deads on top of your pullups.

This BS about some guys being too "heavy" is just that... pure BS. When I was 262 lbs... I did my sets with a 100 lbs dumbbell hanging from my dip belt. (My goal was to hit 200 lbs on pullups. Art Zeller could do a 200 lbs pullup and a 300 lbs dip. I started to tear my shoulder at [I think] 180 lbs... and have only done body weight since. That was 5 years ago.) But every guy with size I know starts out saying they can't do it... it's too much... blah blah blah... and then if they actually go for it they come back with a real respect for what it does for them. The funny part of this is dinky little skinny guys have just as much trouble starting trying to do 80 reps. It sounds like a lot... until you do it for a while and then you see it isn't a big deal.

So you're going to say that it's absolutely impossible to have a big back without making pull-ups your number one priority?

Cheers,
Scotsman

 

[Longhorn85]

For chest, dips and incline dumbbells rock for chest development... and pretty much everything else is second place.

Interesting, I've never heard anyone else say this. Dumbell presses or flyes?

 

[SofaGeorge]

So you're going to say that it's absolutely impossible to have a big back without making pull-ups your number one priority?

Cheers,
Scotsman

No, not in the case of giant mega men that can lift houses. Strongman competitors have a tendency to make the rules... not break them... but for combat sports and bodybuilding... I'd definitely place it as #1.

Also, for a kid who weights a buck and a quarter or a buck sixty five... it's absolutely the best path.

 

[Scotsman]

No, not in the case of giant mega men that can lift houses. Strongman competitors have a tendency to make the rules... not break them... but for combat sports and bodybuilding... I'd definitely place it as #1.

Also, for a kid who weights a buck and a quarter or a buck sixty five... it's absolutely the best path.

Damnit I was all ready to post up pics of strongmen and pler's to refute you.LOL

I agree that pull-ups are extremely useful for building functional strength and muscle.

Cheers,
Scotsman

 

[tropo]

For laughs bro... post a pic of your awesome results.

I'm getting enough of a laugh just reading your lame replies.

Bro, whatever you look like, or what I look like is irrelevant here, apart from the fact that we could both post any pic we liked and claim it was us.

You're just going to have to face facts. On here you have to use your brain muscle and write intelligently in a way that makes some sense. This show me yours and I'll show you mine just doesn't cut it on a discussion forum.

If you want to debate anything I wrote, then go ahead and make an opposing point and state your reasons.

 

[SofaGeorge]

Here we go with the show me yours and I'll show you mine.

Bro, whatever you look like, or what I look like is irrelevant here.

Science and common sense are against you all the way.

I know, bro. I'm just a dumbass that wanders in here and makes a fool out of myself. Fortunatley, I've got you to straiten me out and guide the people here to real results.

 

[tropo]

I know, bro. I'm just a dumbass that wanders in here and makes a fool out of myself. Fortunatley, I've got you to straiten me out and guide the people here to real results.

Yes, we finally agree.

 

[Scotsman]

SG and Topo knock the bullshit off. You two can agree to disagree but I am not going to allow personal attacks here, it drives people away who could benefit from the knowledge pool.

Cheers,
Scotsman

 

[SofaGeorge]

SG and Topo knock the bullshit off. You two can agree to disagree but I am not going to allow personal attacks here, it drives people away who could benefit from the knowledge pool.

Cheers,
Scotsman

Agreed bro.

I even just sent Tropo positive karma.

 

[tropo]

Here's a example of how massive you can get from doing high rep pull-ups.

Here's a video of Matt Bogdanowicz performing a new world record of 46 reps in one minute.

http://speedendurance.com/2007/10/2...ecord-pull-up-attempt-a-60-second-pull-up-wr/

Here's an example of a guy who specializes in pull-ups and in particular one-arm-pull-ups. He uses weighted chins to build up his strength. It's interesting to see what type of physique a pull-up specialist can build doing little else.

Although he's in good shape, he's hardly sporting a 'Dorian Yates' back.

http://www.beastskills.com/OneArmPull.htm

I would conclude that unless a bobybuilder is doing progress resistance on weighted pull-ups he's wasting his time if his primary goal is back size.

Because most bodybuilders do numerous exercises during the course of their training week, month, year and career, it's very difficult to isolate which specific exercise is most effective in developing size in a specific muscle group.

 

[TheBigSexy]

hello - I'm new here, I've been around the boards, but not to Elite Fitness before... this looks like a really cool place with a lot to learn!

I came to this thread at bequest of a friend to check it out.

First - I doubt Dorian Yates would have a Dorian Yates back without many other supplements he may have taken (i.e., anabolics) not to mention his serious genetics.

Second - there are many different ways to train... some respond to one method, while others respond to another.

Keeping that in mind - Pullups are a definite staple in the development of any back. Narrow your grip - you can effectively hammer the lower lats... widen - and hit the upper... do 50-80 in as many sets as it takes - well, you won't have to worry... you'll recruit your entire back LOL

I've known many people who have had big backs who don't even do pullups... I've known people who use weighted pulls... and those who do them in sets of 10 for 10 reps per set... with just enough time to catch their breath in between sets.

I do tend to agree with SofaGeorge on this matter, however. If you can't do a pullup - however - not even one... then, maybe use the assistance (gravatron?) to build up the required strength.

As for me - I do about 50 pullups before my back workout - in sets of about 10. My off-season weight is around 255... I'm at around 223 right now and about 5 weeks out from my show... I sure hope my back doesn't look "small"

 

[gator_mclusky]

Ive been using the 50 rep+ chins for many yrs. When I was 17 I saw a guy with what looked like wings! He lived in my neighborhood and told me that he got that back doing as many sets as it took but to at least get 50.
I started doing that and as my back progressed I added more reps......60, then 70, then 80! I can definitely say that chins with 50 or more reps with however many sets it takes built my back.
To this day that guy has one of the best backs Ive ever seen and my back is definitely one of my strongest body parts.

gator

 

[SouthernLord]

I think the gravitron machine sucks for extra assistance. The OP should buy a mini or lite jumpstretch band and use that for assistance. Choke the band around the bar and put one foot on the band and keep the band in front of your body. You can press your foot down for more assistance or lift your foot up behind you for less assistance. This is the most natural way (imo) to get assistance with chins/pulls.

 

[SofaGeorge]

I think the gravitron machine sucks for extra assistance.

I was working with a young woman a few years ago who had a serious goal of being able to do an unassisted chin up. Statistically, only 1 woman in 200 can do a chin up or pull up... so it can be a challenging goal for a woman.

She tried for two years to get there using the gravitron assisted pullup machine... and two years into it she was no further along than when she started.

I worked with her for a month... lifting her and letting her just hit the negative.

She was able to do an unassited pullup within a month just by working the negative. Within three months she could do 12 wide grip pull ups behind the head in strict form.

The gravitron is truly one of the worst machines ever invented.

 

[deathdroprob]

I was working with a young woman a few years ago who had a serious goal of being able to do an unassisted chin up. Statistically, only 1 woman in 200 can do a chin up or pull up... so it can be a challenging goal for a woman.

She tried for two years to get there using the gravitron assisted pullup machine... and two years into it she was no further along than when she started.

I worked with her for a month... lifting her and letting her just hit the negative.

She was able to do an unassited pullup within a month just by working the negative. Within three months she could do 12 wide grip pull ups behind the head in strict form.

The gravitron is truly one of the worst machines ever invented.

Agreed, I did use an assistance machine a few months ago, and it did seem to do anything for me. I may as well just do Pull-downs, the movement was very unaturasl and actually hurt somtimes.

On the Arguement of doing 5 reps maxes or 80 reps, I think it come down to weather you support Hyperetrophy or heavy strenght training.

I said 3x5 and 5x5 were useless to me, I infact lost weight with them, but with my own BB once a week hypertrophy routinr Ive been stackin the weight on RIDICULOUSLY FAST.

But both techiques seem to have their ups.
But with the 80 rep routine, Id see myself doing mostly 1 rep sets. And itd take alot of time to do so.

Say with pull downs Ill do 3-4 sets of say 12 or 12,10,8
So an average of about 40 reps.
Wouldnt it bee wiser to pursue 40 than 80?

then laterI should be able to do them in 5 or less sets, then I could start adding weight and start maxing my 12 rep max??

 

[SofaGeorge]

Wouldnt it bee wiser to pursue 40 than 80?

Kent Kuehn was holding court on that topic a few years back. Kent is probably the most insightful guy in the history of bodybuilding for cutting through the butter and telling you what will really work. He said there was just something about the high number that tripped a trigger and did its thing to the lats. The unfortunate part of the discussion is that nobody really knew what the bottom number was for optimal results. Could you get it in 50? 40? It wasn't really an answered question.

The 80 rep program actually goes back to the old old Muscle Beach days ..and it has been known since at least the 30s or 40s. I had a couple very interesting conversations with Vince Gironda many years ago about the early days of bodybuilding in Venice/Santa Monica. Vince created a name for himself by being one of the first guys to make a science of weightlifting and start to figure out which exercises worked... which ones worked better... and what exercises/routines were the very best of all. I'm not 100% certain... but I think Kent credited Vince for preaching the virtues of the 80 rep pull up routine.

Everybody does a lot of 1 or 2 rep sets the first few weeks that they try it. That is just part and parcel of doing it. Somehow, though, that 1-2 rep thing doesn't last long and everybody gets their sets into the 5-6 range for all their bottom sets pretty quickly. I honeslty think it is pushing yourself through the 1-2 rep sets with little rest that forces your numbers up.

 

[silver_shadow]

Interesting, I've never heard anyone else say this. Dumbell presses or flyes?

i've heard this and i think he's refering to DB presses not flyes. dips with weight is like the squat of upper body exercises.

 

[SofaGeorge]

i've heard this and i think he's refering to DB presses not flyes. dips with weight is like the squat of upper body exercises.

Correct on all points.

 

[binö]

i started the 80 rep program, on account of sofa's recommendations
upped it to 100 to get more challenged.
my initial sets have gone thru the roof...before i was good for maybe 12 max...in about a month's time i'd say i can knockout 16-17 the first few sets.
good shit

 

[deathdroprob]

has your back gotten alot of difference?

 

[Longhorn85]

dips with weight is like the squat of upper body exercises.

I'm glad you mentioned weight, because I was thinking he meant lots of reps similar to what was said about 80 chins.

Right now I am doing about 5x10 dips combined with incline presses (started last week).

Next week I'll try adding some weight for the dips

 

[binö]

has your back gotten alot of difference?

meh i really can't tell, it's been only about a month or so
and my goal is just to be able to do more pullups, not necessarily have a bigger back

 

[deathdroprob]

meh i really can't tell, it's been only about a month or so
and my goal is just to be able to do more pullups, not necessarily have a bigger back

ah touche

Has any of your rows gone up in numbers?

 

[binö]

ah touche

Has any of your rows gone up in numbers?

my gym only has up to 100 lb dbs
and i've been maxed out there for some time
and i despise barbell rows
so
i can't really say

 

[silver_shadow]

you despise BB rows?!?!? this is going to make you mighty unpopular round these parts!

 

[binö]

you despise BB rows?!?!? this is going to make you mighty unpopular round these parts!

i just never got anything from them
never felt it in my back like db rows
now bb uprights i love and do weekly
but bb rows never did anything for me other than hurt my lower back

 

[silverskyline]

Just do them often, it may help to start widening your grip for one.

It might feel terrable or not do well at first but this way you are training a larger musscle group to work for you in them (your back) rather than your bicepts.

In the long run they will increase, I learned it in USMC boot camp and went from 8 pull ups to 21 in 3 months

 

[silver_shadow]

i just never got anything from them
never felt it in my back like db rows
now bb uprights i love and do weekly
but bb rows never did anything for me other than hurt my lower back

there's your problem right there. you don't deweight the bar after each rep. after the first lift off, the bar never touches the floor till your last rep.

try them so that you drop the bar each time onto the floor.... each time you pull it's right off the floor. stand with your back parallel to the floor. explode the bar, but watch your form. let it touch your torso and then lower it. these are known around here as glenn pendlay rows. oh yea - hands placed about shoulder width apart. try it, you wont be disappointed. no stress on the lower back... they aren't meant to stress that part.

 

[deathdroprob]

I Never do Standing BB Rows.
My Gym has a bench specially for them, so you lie on your stomach, and it has a very slight incline.
I found this to work better than normal BB rows

 

[silver_shadow]

I Never do Standing BB Rows.
My Gym has a bench specially for them, so you lie on your stomach, and it has a very slight incline.
I found this to work better than normal BB rows

i've used one of those in one of the gyms i worked out earlier. the problem at least for me is that since you are lying with your torso pressed against the bench, it feels kind of restrictive while getting a deep breath in.

 

[binö]

there's your problem right there. you don't deweight the bar after each rep. after the first lift off, the bar never touches the floor till your last rep.

try them so that you drop the bar each time onto the floor.... each time you pull it's right off the floor. stand with your back parallel to the floor. explode the bar, but watch your form. let it touch your torso and then lower it. these are known around here as glenn pendlay rows. oh yea - hands placed about shoulder width apart. try it, you wont be disappointed. no stress on the lower back... they aren't meant to stress that part.

yeah i never drop the weight after each rep
in fact i do them in the rack (no homo) with the pins in the 3 hole so i'm not even close to the ground
but they strain my lower back...it's that strain feeling you get when you sq with bad form and drift over your toes.
i've tried them all different ways, meh.
uprights, though, are good shit.
same with t-bar
so many back exercises that i feel comfortable never doing bb rows
but i'm non-juicy, so wtf do i know

 

[silver_shadow]

your core is probably not as strong as it should be. maybe you need to work on that as well.

 

[Scotsman]

yeah i never drop the weight after each rep
in fact i do them in the rack (no homo) with the pins in the 3 hole so i'm not even close to the ground
but they strain my lower back...it's that strain feeling you get when you sq with bad form and drift over your toes.
i've tried them all different ways, meh.
uprights, though, are good shit.
same with t-bar
so many back exercises that i feel comfortable never doing bb rows
but i'm non-juicy, so wtf do i know

For BB rows
Do you use an over or underhand grip?
Do you pick the weight up from a low position or high?
How do you set up for your lift?
Where do you bring the bar to?

Cheers,
Scotsman

 

[binö]

For BB rows
Do you use an over or underhand grip?
Do you pick the weight up from a low position or high?
How do you set up for your lift?
Where do you bring the bar to?

Cheers,
Scotsman

start off overhand then use a mixed grip as the weight gets heavier
bring the bar to my sterum
set up with the bar resting on the rack pins, usually the three hole

 

[Scotsman]

start off overhand then use a mixed grip as the weight gets heavier
bring the bar to my sterum
set up with the bar resting on the rack pins, usually the three hole

Try going underhand so that your elbows just clear your lats.
Bring the bar to just bellow the belly button.
Start standing up like on the lockout of a dead, set your arch in your back, take a deep breath and lean forward.

Don't use mixed grip on a row you're training the sides differently plus the bar path must change to accomodate anatomy. Get some straps to hold heavier weights.

Cheers,
Scotsman

 

[deathdroprob]

i've used one of those in one of the gyms i worked out earlier. the problem at least for me is that since you are lying with your torso pressed against the bench, it feels kind of restrictive while getting a deep breath in.

agreed very muchly, My ribs always get crushed from these and Im always out of breath.
But atleast my lats are getting a good blast