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Hooked on pain killers, need advice.

Latamier

High End Bro
Platinum
How many of you guys out there have been hooked on this shit. My workout partner has been taking vicodin just about every night for almost 8 months now and cant get off of it. He told me yesterday that he takes 3 at a time before bed time. Night is the only time he takes them to supposedly help him sleep. Can any of you give me some advice on how to help him out? PLEASE!
 
The only real answer is also the hardest thing to do, stop taking them. Life will suck for a few weeks, but things will get better.

Those Vicodins are killing his liver.
 
There was a thread a while back with some great info spread out through it (much from former adicts). It was started by some guy's wife - title was "God Please No" or something like that. It was very solid (some BS included but a few of the posts make it totally worth searching out). PM me if you don't find it with search and I will try to look too.
 
Cold turkey is where you are wrong, DO NOT stop taking vicoden cold turkey he has been using too long and hes not just taking them at night.....He will experience diahrea, cramps, vomiting, twitching, tachycardia,depression, anxiety and high blood pressure. Not anywhere near alchohol withdrawel but extremely uncomfortable...Two medications which can help with vicoden withdrawal are buprenorphine and clonidine. If his doctor is not familiar with their use in opiate withdrawal, him and his doctor should attempt to find a physician who is. Tell him to start tapering himself off the vicoden in the meantime.
 
If you really dont know what your talking about, especially about a serious issue like this dont give advice. Quitting opiates cold turkey is a no no
 
Re: EXACTLY RIGHT !

johnboy said:


genarr hit the nail on the head, will power is where it is at. And he will be glad he toughed it out when its over.

What r u talking about will power? He has a problem, if he had will power he wouldnt need help.........Its easy for you people to sit back and say will power,just quit, cold turkey...You dont know what your talking about so dont give bad advice to someone.
 
Re: Re: EXACTLY RIGHT !

therookie said:


What r u talking about will power? He has a problem, if he had will power he wouldnt need help.........Its easy for you people to sit back and say will power,just quit, cold turkey...You dont know what your talking about so dont give bad advice to someone.

Wrong. Every lying candy ass junkie in the world wants to convince their family and friends that they can't "just stop taking them." Truth of it is - THEY DON'T WANT TO STOP TAKING THEM. The people who get clean and stay clean are the ones who realize they CAN stop taking them. There is no magic to it. There is no other answer to it.

I've seen way to many people sing the "I can't" song through endless stints in rehab. The truth of it is they don't want to stop yet.
 
therookie is right, if you don't know what you are talking about, shut your ass - this subject is no joke, cold turkey is bullshit.

"Dependency to opiates is a physical illness, and a central nervous system disorder, caused by long-term opiate-intake. After prolonged opiate use, the nerve cells in the brain, which would otherwise produce endogenous opiates, cease to function normally. The degeneration of these nerve cells results in the user's physical dependency to an external supply of opiates. Abrupt or sudden abstinence from opiate intake induces yet another traumatic disorder - withdrawal syndrome.

The withdrawal syndrome is a long and painful process, which can result in permanent damage to the cardiopulmonary system and the central nervous system. Untreated and unmonitored withdrawal can even result in death. For these reasons, opiate dependency treatment requires appropriate medical care. "
 
What, no response from the "cold turkey boys"? Maybe they're trying to find some scientific evidence that will support their bullshit comments.......Good luck!
 
This ignorant "go cold turkey!" tough guy bullshit has always pissed me off. Keep your yap shut unless you've been there, or watched someone go through some hardcore withdrawal from even something like vicodin medically and mentally.:mad:

Let me jack you up on heroin for a month straight, then stop giving you your fix "cold turkey"....see how long you can tough it out until you're crying like a bitch asking to die.
 
Go to the Doctor. They will get him off... All that Acetaminophen is hell on his liver. The doc will probably prescribe something that does not have Acetaminophen and wean him off slowly. But he has to be committed, otherwise it won’t work. Also cold turkey is not a good idea in this case. It has been to long and a physical addiction is a medical condition not a matter of mind over matter or willpower at this point. That comes latter. You have to beat the physical addiction first, then the mental addiction. In all likelyhood if he does not stop this he will suffer permanent liver damage and possibly at some point end up as a transplant patient. Acetaminophen is one of the worst drugs on the liver.
 
Hey LAt. How's it going? Haven't talked to you in a while.
How's training? You hit up a cycle yet? Sorry about your friend. I wish I had more advice to offer.
 
Recovered hydrocodone addict, sobriety date 1/12/98. Been there, done that. First of all, 3 vicodens a day is not going to cause life threatening withdrawal. However, if he is really an addict, then he is not going to admit how much he really is taking. No decent physician will treat addiction as an outpatient by giving the addict a script and telling him to taper himself off his drugs. That is hilarious. Addicts will not submit to treatment unless there is some compelling reason which is why we aren't ready till we're ready. The elevator goes way down and most people don't get off until it crashes. If your friend is addicted and wants to get off then he needs to go to his physician for referral to an inpatient drug rehab facility or present to one himself. This disease should be treated as a disease by people who understand how to get us clean and sober. I wish all the best for your friend. It is a difficult disease to live with but it is a helluva lot easier sober than when you're using.
 
Must nice to have be able to go to rehab... I was not so lucky as to not have to work and earn a living. My addition to Oxy was treated outpatient in the manor described (allot of supervision). So it is not so laughable. Not everyone can afford a 5 week 35,000 dollar inpatient program. If you can then, you are one of the lucky ones.
 
decadur said:
What, no response from the "cold turkey boys"? Maybe they're trying to find some scientific evidence that will support their bullshit comments.......Good luck!
Actually I'm speaking from experience, and I was taking alot more then he is. I was taking about 5 - 8 a day for at least a year and dropped them cold turkey.

Yes life sucked for a month or two but it's over now. I didn't have anything even coming close to resembling "life threatening" symptoms.

That's all the science I have.
 
genarr3 said:
BTW - 3 pills a day isn't exactly a hardcore addict.

He is not taking 3 a day...Addict never admit to there usage. They kid themselve...Been there myself...Xanax withdrawel was terrible
 
Buprenex and clonidine...

Buprenex and clonidine will help.... Do a search on the web, there is alot of info. on these to help. Note, they are to help they NOT a magic pill solution, it's going to be tough. If he's only taking vic's, don't take methadone, methadone is the cure that is worse than the problem.
 
Lone_AZ,
Sorry Bro. Didn't mean to offend. Being a physician with (for obvious reasons) a special interest in addiction medicine, I have never known or heard of a doc giving an addict narcs to taper themselves with. Obviously, it is done as in your case but I would think highly inadvisable in most scenarios as most addicts have no intention of tapering no matter what they say. My in-patient stay was only for 5 days of detox (tapering to zero), then 6 weeks outpatient counselling/education 4 nights per week. The whole thing cost me a whopping $1500 insurance copay. I agree that most people, especially those without insurance, cannot afford to go to an in-patient rehab, but believe me dude, outpatient detox just isn't going to be very easy for most people to find and I bet we can both agree that whatever it costs an addict to get sober will be a bargain compared to not getting sober. Since this is a disease, if you go to detox and get fired for that, you can sue your employer under the "Americans with Disabilities Act" and get any back salary and your job back. Therefore, most knowledgeable employers will accomidate this type of absence especially knowing that they will get a better, more productive employee back out of the deal. Reps and sets Bro. Reps and sets.
 
Damn guys, your replies have been more than I ever thought they would be. I printed them out and showed them to him at the gym tonight. One hour after I got home he stopped by and we chatted for about another hour, and before he left he gave me two bottles of vicodin and three bottles of vicoprofen and told me to flush them. We watched as they went down and he looked as if he was about to cry. I really think that at that moment he turned his life over to someone else for help. He even asked if he could come to church with my wife and I this Sunday and Friday night to a singles dinner we are hosting. Wish me luck with him and any other advice would be great. Many thanks to all of you that have responded, you all really feel like family.
 
"Two medications which can help with vicoden withdrawal are buprenorphine and clonidine
My thoughts exactly. they have sublingual buprenex "buprenorphine"
 
I have a friend...

(sorry so long...)

My roommate, and one of my best friends actually...Who quit Oxycontin almost cold. Went from at least 240mg ED for seven months to 80mg/dy to 40mg/dy to 0mg/day in just five days. That was his "taper down" period, five days...

Here's what he went through:

Before quitting:
--Lost 25% of his body weight while on.
--Spent about $2200/week (he was covering someone else habit too)
--Complained that he could never take a shit...Don’t know what that was about...
--Ended all friendships/relationships with non-users
--Only came to work about 2hrs per day, while his businesses sales fell 30% in a single month (didn't even care about this)..

After quitting (this is where MY hell began):
--Literally didn't sleep for 6 straight days. Physically couldn't even though he was exhausted.
--Cried CONSTANTLY for about 15 days. When he didn't cry he simply stared at the wall.
--Once the deepest depression ended and he got a little motivated, he became moderately self destructive and required almost constant babysitting.
--Diarrhea...Extremely severe diarrhea immediately after he eats lasted about 20 days.
--Headache lasted weeks.
--Sweating. For about three weeks he had to sleep with four towels b/c he sweat so much that he said it was like "it was raining in my room." He'd wake-up every morning and weigh 3lbs less. One day he decided not to drink water (make the sweating stop) he couldn't walk b/c his back (kidneys?) hurt so bad.

One month later:
--Upon waking up his fairly "happy," but by late afternoon he's basically depressed. Still stares at the walls a lot. Literally just sits in a room and stares. Says, "I have some good days every now and then..."
--Can finally sleep more than 5hrs, no more sweating. No more suicide talk.
--THIS IS BAD: occasionally has grey colored shit and lower back pain. Won't go see a doctor even though I've thoroughly explained just how much fun liver failure will be. Has passed six kidney stones...
--Strange rash (like hives) covers huge patches of his body then rapidly (5min later) disappears or moves to another part of body...
 
He will need to start tapering down ASAP. Once he has gotten to the point where he is only taking 2 or 3 a day can he quit altogether. Take your time with the tapering too. After all it took a long time to build up to 10 or 15 Vics a day so it will take some time to taper down. You get no extra points for speed. I have done this several times with Ultram and it is no fun but much easier than quitting cold turkey.
 
Hey guys, this issue hits very close to home for me. I was addicted to pain killers and muscle relaxers for 3 years straight. I got where i could take 6 to 8 valium and function not to mention taking 8 soma before class. This shit is for real and in my opinion cold turkey is not the real smart way to go if you have a real addiction. I overdosed when i was 17 and had a seizure, then a year later i decided to get off the shit cold turkey. That was a mistake b/c i had a seizure from withdrawls in my front yard while throwing a baseball around with my buddy. I know that kind of shit doesn't happen to everyone, but i spent the better part of 6 months going through tests to see if i had really fucked myself up and to check if i had epilepy. I didn't but now i am 21, off pills and look back on the whole thing as a learning experience. I think that the person with the addiction shouldn't go through it alone like i did. E-mail me with any questions!!!!
 
There is an old post on this board talking about a protocol for treating opium addictions with Immodium AD of all things. I'm sure there arent too many posts about Immodium so you should be able to find it easily and judge the merit of the technique for yourself.
 
I think this is the post that a few people above were referring to.



Narcotic withdrawal - a junkies guide for survival
You are waking from the warm fuzzy dream.. you're supply is depleted, your 'guy' is out of town, and it's a good 4 weeks before you can refill your script.. you're going to suffer from NARCOTIC WITHDRAWAL - So what can ya do about it?

Drag yourself to your local pharmacy with this for a shopping list -

1) Imodium AD - and get the SYRUP - you can also get the pills or gel-caps as they will come in handy later.. you can get the generic shit too, just make sure that the ONLY active drug is loperamide hcl .. get a big bottle, hell, get 3 or 4 .. and no, it doesn't have a "pleasant cherry taste" .. this brings us to the next item -

2) Fruit juice - carbonated beverages won't do ya a lot of good... I have done this many times, and I find some apple juice to be the drink of choice ..

3) Aleve (or generic - you want naproxen sodium) .. this will help with the muscle aches and pains ..

4) Sominex (or generic - you want diphenhydramine).. this is an OTC sleep aide that *WILL* knock you out! Now if you have benzos or some other type of tranqualizer, thats better as they have other properties that we desire - but still, pick some of this up because without it you will just toss and turn all night...

5) Soup - whatever you like, it taste the same comming up ..

Some people recomend DXM, but I don't think it does much good when one is going through withdrawal - it *CAN* help reduce ones tollerence to opiates/opioids - pick up a bottle, remember, you want DXM ONLY .. you can try this, but I found it never really did anything but make my feel 'trippy' in higher doses (NOT pleasureable when you're kicking) ..

Ok, first off, there is no magic cure for withdrawal that DOESN'T involve some type of narcotic - thats what withdrawal is - the condition resulting from the absence of opiate/opioids in your system... in other words, don't think you can go on a 3 month heroin binge and walk away like nothing happened - BUT - I have been through this many, many, many times before - and I can help you reduce the pain and suffering to *ALMOST* nothing ..

Now, how bad will it be? Well, that depends on a few things:

*) HOW MUCH were you taking? Someone who mainlines a gram of heroin every 16 hours is going to have it a LOT worse then someone who pops a few Lortab every day..

*) HOW OFTEN were you taking the drugs? Again, if you made opiated bliss a full-time job, then you're going to have it a little harder then the occasional pill poper..

*) WHAT were you taking? If you liked to take codeine every day, you will probably suffer a little less then someone whos drug of choice was black tar..

I will assume that our subject falls in the moderate to heavy use catagory - could be considered an 'addict', or 'independent self-medicator'..

Withdrawal can set in within hours, depending on the frequency of your opiate/opioid intake - an IV heroin user who would fix every 4 hours is going to feel the kick comming a lot sooner then someone who eats Vicodin after work each night ..

I wont get into the psychological aspects of narcotic withdrawal, as thats a book in itself...

IMODIUM AD - OTC METHADONE!

I can't say enough about Loperamide - this shit is truely amazing.. it is really like OTC methadone .. so I think I will say a little about it;

Back in the day, Jansen (pharmaceuticals) was trying to tweak out the fentanyl molecule - loperamide and fentanyl have a lot in common in terms of their structure.. anyway, they came up with loperamide in hopes it would be some incredible opioid - sadly it wasn't... so it was placed in federall schedule V - then, for some unknown reason, it was knocked out of C-V and made an OTC drug - you know it as Imodium AD .. there were some studies done on morphine dependent monkeys, and loperamide halted the withdrawal with as much success as methadone - so hey, don't write it off as a "junkie trick"...

How to use it? Well, ideally you want to take it prior to the onset of physical withdrawal - hence the reason for the liquid - it is rapidly absorbed into yer system .. for a dose I recomend about 4mg-6mg - yes, more then recomended by the FDA .. this can almost totally halt with physical aspects of withdrawal - it does little for the mental cravings though .. you can 'maintain' yourself with the pills/gel's but the syrup is FAR better - still, I find it's easier to pop a few pills at work then to bust out with the economy size bottle of an anti-diarrhea medicine..

For a moderate user, loperamide will just about kill *all* the physical symptoms - but for the heavy user, or for a good portion of the moderate users, there is that one physical effect that persists - muscle aches .. enters the Aleve (naproxen) .. take 500mg every few hours ..

Ok, so you are now narcotic free, and maintained fairly well with the Imodium and Aleve - is it that easy? No, not really.. while the above can help, you will still suffer from SOME physicl effects - I will list them.. some, all, or none may apply to you:

1) Cold sweats
2) Nausea
3) Diarrhea
4) Vomiting
5) Muscle pain
6) Insomnia
7) Depression (I wont get into it)

The severity of the effects depends on how much of what you take and how often you did so..

How long does it last? Overall, the worst is over after about 3-5 days, and from there it's just a matter of dealing with some minor annoyances .. the first few days are the worst, and I don't advise doing any more then you have to - lay in bed, keep a trash can nearby, and have a good stock of toliet paper .. food is a good thing, but you might not be able to keep it down - but THIS IS IMPORTANT - diarrhea and vomitting cause you to lose a LOT of water, so you WILL dehydrate - hence, you MUST maintain a good intake of fluids... thirsty or not, drink a cup of something every hour or so ..

Sominex will help you sleep, and benzos are wonderfull!

Everything else is a matter of personal opinion - do what feels good.. some people find sex is a good way to make a bad situation good, I personally don't want to do anything sexual when I am going through withdrawal.. I like to be as clean as possible - it really makes me feel good to take a few hot showers a day, but others can't take the water - YMMV, find out what works and go with it!

Thats most of the general advice I have...

Prevention is really the best way to go - TAPER YOUR DOSE when you're running low (yeah right) .. a nice alternative is to keep some narcotics on hand that wont really fuck you up, but will keep the withdrawal under control - ie codeine - it wont make you warm and fuzzy, but it may enable you to avoid missing a few days of work/school ..



--baryon
 
I have never heard that about immodium, I am going to call my buddy as soon as I get off line and tell him this news. One bad side effect is that he probably wont shit for ten days, but if it works then thats great. Thanks again guys for the great info and encouragement for him. He did not have a great night last night and really needs a lot of help.
 
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