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helping on first reps
- Thread starter Maverick
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jdevlin1985
New member
mikeyboy604 said:
This is fine. However if you struggle to keep form near on perfect during reps then the weight is too heavy. Pump is what it is all about not joint work...
Saint V
New member
I disagree with jdevlin. If you need help with the first rep, lighten the load abit. Or use a lighter weight for a few sets and do dead stops at the bottom of the movement. This works very well for developing strenth and power. Ever try to start a squat from the bottom position instead of standing. Put the bar down on the pins in a rack, crawl underneath and squat the sucker.
blut wump
New member
If you can't get the DB out of the hole then treat it as a sticking point and a weakness. On subsequent reps you probably have the stretch reflex helping you to get back up.
I'm with saint v on this one.
Then again, if you liken it to a push press, you could argue that resolving a sticking point at the bottom isn't really going to do much for your overall shoulder development and that coming down really low might even over-stress your shoulders. At that stage you might argue that it doesn't matter and that going heavy, so long as you can still bring your upper arms down to horizontal and get back up, is good.
I'm with saint v on this one.
Then again, if you liken it to a push press, you could argue that resolving a sticking point at the bottom isn't really going to do much for your overall shoulder development and that coming down really low might even over-stress your shoulders. At that stage you might argue that it doesn't matter and that going heavy, so long as you can still bring your upper arms down to horizontal and get back up, is good.
jdevlin1985
New member
Saint V said:
Sorry is it me or did he only say he needed help on the first rep getting the weight up - maybe need reading lessons
...or maybe you need to read the post properly before you comment
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i see it as the same reason why deads from the floor instead of touch and go is so much harder...(im not sure why that is tho)
but ill say that maybe ur just not used to the weight untill uv controlled it for a little bit on ur way down
and someone said stretch reflex
but ill say that maybe ur just not used to the weight untill uv controlled it for a little bit on ur way down
and someone said stretch reflex
musketeer
New member
OK - lets put thing right, I know exactly what you mean Mikey!
The first rep of dumbells is hard because you are starting the first rep from shoulder level and NOT having two spotters lifting the weights up to the near top for you to take hold of. If you had lowed the weight under control from the first rep, then you have a physical and neuro-chemical advantage. The muscles stretch and provide a stretch reflex when performing the negative portion of a rep. The muscle cell sheaths stretch a little and encourage the muscles to elongate fully and also they have a small elastic effect. If you start from the bottom of an exercise (like DL, situp, barbell curl) then you will usually find that the weight is harder to move the first time than it is on the next rep. This is normal and healthy and I don't think the others (who are telling you to lighten up) are fully understanding your question.
If I'm going light (8 reps + ) then I'll just lump it and get on with lifting them myself. If I'm using heavier dumbells for things like shoulder press, then I'll get two spotters to lift the dumbells up to their chests and let me just lockout the last few inches of the rep. Once I have them up there I can lower them under control and should find the first rep the easiest of the set.
Last shoulder workout I did seated db presses for a change from my push press. I managed 8 reps with the 90lbers and perhaps I could go heavier in a few weeks when I try it again but that's as high as the gym goes! I don't thing that if I was on my own I would have been able to get those things off of my shoulders ONCE if I'd had to have knee jerked them up myself!
The first rep of dumbells is hard because you are starting the first rep from shoulder level and NOT having two spotters lifting the weights up to the near top for you to take hold of. If you had lowed the weight under control from the first rep, then you have a physical and neuro-chemical advantage. The muscles stretch and provide a stretch reflex when performing the negative portion of a rep. The muscle cell sheaths stretch a little and encourage the muscles to elongate fully and also they have a small elastic effect. If you start from the bottom of an exercise (like DL, situp, barbell curl) then you will usually find that the weight is harder to move the first time than it is on the next rep. This is normal and healthy and I don't think the others (who are telling you to lighten up) are fully understanding your question.
If I'm going light (8 reps + ) then I'll just lump it and get on with lifting them myself. If I'm using heavier dumbells for things like shoulder press, then I'll get two spotters to lift the dumbells up to their chests and let me just lockout the last few inches of the rep. Once I have them up there I can lower them under control and should find the first rep the easiest of the set.
Last shoulder workout I did seated db presses for a change from my push press. I managed 8 reps with the 90lbers and perhaps I could go heavier in a few weeks when I try it again but that's as high as the gym goes! I don't thing that if I was on my own I would have been able to get those things off of my shoulders ONCE if I'd had to have knee jerked them up myself!
Tom Treutlein
New member
It's not about a pump, devlin. A pump doesn't mean anything.
Mikeyboy, you might want to try using a bit less weight initially. Either that, or maybe try using a barbell to see if you have the same issue.
A pump doesn't mean anything.Mikeyboy, you might want to try using a bit less weight initially. Either that, or maybe try using a barbell to see if you have the same issue.
Tom Treutlein
New member
The number of reps is important. The last rep certainly isn't what counts. Microtrauma is caused from the first rep, down to the last.
Tom Treutlein
New member
Regardless of that, every repetition done causes damage to the muscle tissue (microtrauma), which rebuilds, adapts and, under proper circumstances, grows.
So the real definition of intensity is a given weight's % of your 1RM. Granted HIT would like you to believe it's some subjective fairly useless preceived effort but that just doesn't change the fact that it is and has been in common use as an objective quantifiable variable in just about every worthwhile article or book on training written.
Also, there is a misconception that training to failure or that last possible rep is required or desirable. Failure is not the stimulus. Failure may occur but in and of itself it is neither good nor required. If you train to failure consistently you will deplete your CNS and limit the load you can tolerate and the load is the stimulus that one is actually applying. Of course the logic of HIT starts to fall apart under under this, but although HIT is convenient and nicely logical - it isn't really how the body works so you wind up with a really logical clean model that doesn't fit all that well.
These are fairly pertinent and were easy to Google.
http://www.mindandmuscle.net/content/page-238.html
http://www.myodynamics.com/articles/failure.html
This is a fairly easy read on Dual Factor Theory (HIT and similar supercompensation based programs are Single Factor Theory which incidentally is nearly universally rejected outside of BBing):
http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/showpost.php?p=48&postcount=3
---------------
EDIT: almost forgot - mikeyboy - I think musketeer and a few others have it for the most part. There is something that is obviously different about your first rep. Maybe that's the stretch reflex, maybe it's a matter of range of motion, momentum - any one or any combination of those.
Also, there is a misconception that training to failure or that last possible rep is required or desirable. Failure is not the stimulus. Failure may occur but in and of itself it is neither good nor required. If you train to failure consistently you will deplete your CNS and limit the load you can tolerate and the load is the stimulus that one is actually applying. Of course the logic of HIT starts to fall apart under under this, but although HIT is convenient and nicely logical - it isn't really how the body works so you wind up with a really logical clean model that doesn't fit all that well.
These are fairly pertinent and were easy to Google.
http://www.mindandmuscle.net/content/page-238.html
http://www.myodynamics.com/articles/failure.html
This is a fairly easy read on Dual Factor Theory (HIT and similar supercompensation based programs are Single Factor Theory which incidentally is nearly universally rejected outside of BBing):
http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/showpost.php?p=48&postcount=3
---------------
EDIT: almost forgot - mikeyboy - I think musketeer and a few others have it for the most part. There is something that is obviously different about your first rep. Maybe that's the stretch reflex, maybe it's a matter of range of motion, momentum - any one or any combination of those.
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jdevlin1985
New member
Tom Treutlein said:It's not about a pump, devlin.
Mikeyboy, you might want to try using a bit less weight initially. Either that, or maybe try using a barbell to see if you have the same issue.
So you are saying that Mr Ronnie Coleman does not know what he talking about....Lee Priest, Dexter Jackson
I can only imagine what your physique looks like...Its about exhausting the muscle and achieveing a hard pump....not working your joints or building latic acid in the muscle. Latic acid is catabolic to your muscles (OVERTRAINING)
God people like this really get to me. they post shit and have no idea what they are talking about
jdevlin1985
New member
mikeyboy604 said:
Its because of people like that bud - hope all the info has helped anyway
Tom Treutlein
New member
Who said anything about working joints or lactic acid, you child?
It's not about exhausting the muscle or a hard pump. You're trying to tell me lactic acid is the cause of overtraining? You've completely crossed your wires somewhere, 'cause lactic acid will occur when one is either A) new to a training stimulus, this they haven't trained enough to handle the work load or B) using way too much volume, which is common with people who train each body part once a week.
I just find it hysterical that you sit here telling me I don't know what I'm talking about, yet you seem to have no idea about any of this. Name any bodybuilder you want, I don't care. Fact is, they're juiced beyond belief, and they can do basically anything in order to grow, provided they get a fair degree of rest and nutrition. They lack a lot of training knowledge due to their reliance on drugs.
So, yes, I am saying Ronnie Coleman has no idea what he's talking about. Oh, but you go ahead and train for your pump for each body part once a week. See where it gets you.
It's not about exhausting the muscle or a hard pump. You're trying to tell me lactic acid is the cause of overtraining? You've completely crossed your wires somewhere, 'cause lactic acid will occur when one is either A) new to a training stimulus, this they haven't trained enough to handle the work load or B) using way too much volume, which is common with people who train each body part once a week.
I just find it hysterical that you sit here telling me I don't know what I'm talking about, yet you seem to have no idea about any of this. Name any bodybuilder you want, I don't care. Fact is, they're juiced beyond belief, and they can do basically anything in order to grow, provided they get a fair degree of rest and nutrition. They lack a lot of training knowledge due to their reliance on drugs.
So, yes, I am saying Ronnie Coleman has no idea what he's talking about. Oh, but you go ahead and train for your pump for each body part once a week. See where it gets you.
jdevlin1985
New member
seems like i am not the only one who has feed you negative comments by the looks of your profile
Fool
Fool
Tom Treutlein
New member
Since jdevlin's PM box is conveinently full 
rolleyes, I'll put this here.
People are here to learn about training and nutrition? Then you really need to go somewhere to learn about grammar, spelling, and punctuation. Might I suggest www.dictionary.com douche bag?
You overuse the word waste. You sound like a broken record, which is funny 'cause I don't listen to those either.
You don't know what you're talking about my friend. You go ahead and keep thinking a pump is what's required, but don't come trying to school me on any of this. I've done plenty of research, and I know what causes the muscle to actually grow. A pump has nothing to do with growth. You go find me studies that say otherwise, 'cause I have plenty of sources that show a pump is useless. Stop living in the past.
There's my response to your PM. As for your post, you're right, you're not the only one who has fed me negative comments. Your point? Pointing out something entirely irrelevant like that is just idiotic. Then again, I shouldn't put such a thing past you, should I? Man these boards get worse every day.
rolleyes, I'll put this here. Jdevlin1985 said:
People are here to learn about training and nutrition? Then you really need to go somewhere to learn about grammar, spelling, and punctuation. Might I suggest www.dictionary.com douche bag?
You overuse the word waste. You sound like a broken record, which is funny 'cause I don't listen to those either.
You don't know what you're talking about my friend. You go ahead and keep thinking a pump is what's required, but don't come trying to school me on any of this. I've done plenty of research, and I know what causes the muscle to actually grow. A pump has nothing to do with growth. You go find me studies that say otherwise, 'cause I have plenty of sources that show a pump is useless. Stop living in the past.
There's my response to your PM. As for your post, you're right, you're not the only one who has fed me negative comments. Your point? Pointing out something entirely irrelevant like that is just idiotic. Then again, I shouldn't put such a thing past you, should I?
Man these boards get worse every day.
Tolstoy
New member
Jdevlin1985 said:So you are saying that Mr Ronnie Coleman does not know what he talking about....Lee Priest, Dexter Jackson
I can only imagine what your physique looks like...Its about exhausting the muscle and achieveing a hard pump....not working your joints or building latic acid in the muscle. Latic acid is catabolic to your muscles (OVERTRAINING)
God people like this really get to me. they post shit and have no idea what they are talking about
People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones...
psilo
New member
Just an observation -- most people who cannot get the weight started themselves on the first rep are not using the full range of motion. Drop the weight, make sure you are touching your shoulders or chest with the weight on every rep and you will no longer have any trouble getting it started. I see way too many people doing overhead dumbell press and only going to 90 degrees instead of touching their shoulder or clavicle.
Tom Treutlein
New member
Actually, for people with longer limbs (myself, for example) can end up hurting their rotator cuffs when lowering the bar all the way to their chest. For those people, it's best to lower only to your chin.
jdevlin1985
New member
Tom Treutlein said:Since jdevlin's PM box is conveinently full
People are here to learn about training and nutrition? Then you really need to go somewhere to learn about grammar, spelling, and punctuation. Might I suggest www.dictionary.com douche bag?
You overuse the word waste. You sound like a broken record, which is funny 'cause I don't listen to those either.
You don't know what you're talking about my friend. You go ahead and keep thinking a pump is what's required, but don't come trying to school me on any of this. I've done plenty of research, and I know what causes the muscle to actually grow. A pump has nothing to do with growth. You go find me studies that say otherwise, 'cause I have plenty of sources that show a pump is useless. Stop living in the past.
There's my response to your PM. As for your post, you're right, you're not the only one who has fed me negative comments. Your point? Pointing out something entirely irrelevant like that is just idiotic. Then again, I shouldn't put such a thing past you, should I?
Grammer seems fine to me. - mailing a guy like yourself it is not a concern for me
The word 'waste' was what you seemed to use initially my friend, which these guys did not see - grow up fella and stop trying to make yourslef look like something you're not - anyone can copy out of a text book
Post some evidence backing up what you are saying...I would love to see it
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blut wump
New member
The way I see it, very few of us here are super-athletes, elites or whatever you want to call them. Most of us are just average guys who want to look better, be stronger and feel fitter.
Within that framework it doesn't matter whether we work out once a week or five times a week; blast away to failure or consistently keep a rep or two in the tank and follow Prelepin's principles day in and day out. The body will cope and it will adapt by giving us what we want. Pretty much the only things we have to watch out for are breaking or tearing something and losing motivation.
I can almost guarantee that everyone here, whether they realise it or not, has a little dual-factor-ness in their workout plan. If it's not there purposefully then the body will apply it itself. We all have easy weeks which allow us to deload and intense weeks or months when we pile it all on.
Going for a pump might not be the best way to get stronger but it can feel really good and help with vascularity. Not going to failure might seem pathetic to some but it's a good way to get stronger and save something for another workout on the same bodypart a few days later.
What I'm getting at is that, for anyone not elite, we're all in the same boat and the only important things are continuing to lift and doing the iron and having fun doing it. That applies equally to those who never leave the machines as to those who only use free weights.
Whether we're working with maximal efficiency and getting the best from every session or program cycle is another matter. So long as we enjoy it and don't have aspirations to be an international superstar, who cares? Single-factor works, dual-factor works better, maybe conjugate works better still. They all work: do what turns you on.
Within that framework it doesn't matter whether we work out once a week or five times a week; blast away to failure or consistently keep a rep or two in the tank and follow Prelepin's principles day in and day out. The body will cope and it will adapt by giving us what we want. Pretty much the only things we have to watch out for are breaking or tearing something and losing motivation.
I can almost guarantee that everyone here, whether they realise it or not, has a little dual-factor-ness in their workout plan. If it's not there purposefully then the body will apply it itself. We all have easy weeks which allow us to deload and intense weeks or months when we pile it all on.
Going for a pump might not be the best way to get stronger but it can feel really good and help with vascularity. Not going to failure might seem pathetic to some but it's a good way to get stronger and save something for another workout on the same bodypart a few days later.
What I'm getting at is that, for anyone not elite, we're all in the same boat and the only important things are continuing to lift and doing the iron and having fun doing it. That applies equally to those who never leave the machines as to those who only use free weights.
Whether we're working with maximal efficiency and getting the best from every session or program cycle is another matter. So long as we enjoy it and don't have aspirations to be an international superstar, who cares? Single-factor works, dual-factor works better, maybe conjugate works better still. They all work: do what turns you on.
jdevlin1985
New member
Blut Wump said:
By a pump the definition I am relating to is a hard pump. A hard pump will fatigue the muscle worked i.e.rest and nutrition = growth
Beyond the pump comes latic acid which basically is not good for growth. You want to achieve fatigue just before latic kicks in i.e. a hard pump
a pump with light weights is completely irrelevant when it comes to building mass
jdevlin1985
New member
musketeer said:
Good to see guys
jdevlin1985
New member
Blut Wump said:
Or crumpets...????
This thread is a bitchfest but I will throw out a question I have so that I can better understand the value of the pump and how integral it is to hypertrophy.
If the deadlift is one of the best exercises to stimulate large amounts of hypertrophy (along with the squat), why do people that train it in the 5 rep range get bigger without any appreciable pump? A few people might feel an isolated pump in their traps or some other weak link in the chain, but the whole chain/body seems to grow fairly well even in areas that get absolutely no pump. I'd also throw the power clean, snatch, row, low rep presses and squats into the mix but for the sake of clarity just consider the deadlift.
If a pump is integral or even strongly related to hypertrophy, why should I do the deadlift at all and why does everyone see gains when they use this heavy compound movement in lower rep ranges without any appreciable pump? I know Ronnie is fairly strong in the deadlift and pulls some heavy low rep sets - is he doing it to show off or is he getting a full body pump out of a heavy double or single where no one else does?
If someone could explain all this for me it would sure save a lot of people some time and effort.
If the deadlift is one of the best exercises to stimulate large amounts of hypertrophy (along with the squat), why do people that train it in the 5 rep range get bigger without any appreciable pump? A few people might feel an isolated pump in their traps or some other weak link in the chain, but the whole chain/body seems to grow fairly well even in areas that get absolutely no pump. I'd also throw the power clean, snatch, row, low rep presses and squats into the mix but for the sake of clarity just consider the deadlift.
If a pump is integral or even strongly related to hypertrophy, why should I do the deadlift at all and why does everyone see gains when they use this heavy compound movement in lower rep ranges without any appreciable pump? I know Ronnie is fairly strong in the deadlift and pulls some heavy low rep sets - is he doing it to show off or is he getting a full body pump out of a heavy double or single where no one else does?
If someone could explain all this for me it would sure save a lot of people some time and effort.
blut wump
New member
Hint to everyone: this is a trick question.
Whoever heard of anyone doing 100-rep deads? I don't think it's really fair to throw deads out for people to puzzle over although it's a fantastic counter-example to needing pumps to grow. The truth is that you can train any bodypart in the 5-rep range and expect it to grow completely pump-less. Anyone who doesn't believe this should consider trying it for a couple of months.
As far as I can fathom, pumps and burns are just ways of flushing pots of blood into an area. Why anyone would want to flood a muscle with lactic acid is beyond me but people do get a bit crazy and masochistic once the painkilling endorphins kick in. I think there's a bit of berzerker in most weightlifters which is why we sometimes need to be reminded to train smart.
The 'hard pump" I think is just the feeling of approaching failure. It can feel really good to hit that sweet spot of finishing the last rep knowing that you didn't go to failure but there's no hope of doing another rep. I'm sure that's just another facet of endorphins and certainly it's not needed for growth or getting stronger although I know I always feel sure that that was a "growth rep". It's hard to shrug off 20 years of Flex and M&F. It's like a muscle tightness the day or two after a workout always feels like you're growing and can feel the change. Yep, right.
Whoever heard of anyone doing 100-rep deads? I don't think it's really fair to throw deads out for people to puzzle over although it's a fantastic counter-example to needing pumps to grow. The truth is that you can train any bodypart in the 5-rep range and expect it to grow completely pump-less. Anyone who doesn't believe this should consider trying it for a couple of months.
As far as I can fathom, pumps and burns are just ways of flushing pots of blood into an area. Why anyone would want to flood a muscle with lactic acid is beyond me but people do get a bit crazy and masochistic once the painkilling endorphins kick in. I think there's a bit of berzerker in most weightlifters which is why we sometimes need to be reminded to train smart.
The 'hard pump" I think is just the feeling of approaching failure. It can feel really good to hit that sweet spot of finishing the last rep knowing that you didn't go to failure but there's no hope of doing another rep. I'm sure that's just another facet of endorphins and certainly it's not needed for growth or getting stronger although I know I always feel sure that that was a "growth rep". It's hard to shrug off 20 years of Flex and M&F. It's like a muscle tightness the day or two after a workout always feels like you're growing and can feel the change. Yep, right.
U
UA_Iron
Guest
I personally believe if you cant get the first rep then you should drop the weight.
It's your technique in getting the dumbbell up that is preventing you from getting the first one up by yourself.
with shoulders I can get the first rep pretty easy with the 80's
incline db press 105's are not an issue
Who made the pump idea popular anyway? Was that arnold and his 150+ mg dbol/day runs saying he "loved the pump"?
Training for a pump is ridiculous.
It's your technique in getting the dumbbell up that is preventing you from getting the first one up by yourself.
with shoulders I can get the first rep pretty easy with the 80's
incline db press 105's are not an issue
Who made the pump idea popular anyway? Was that arnold and his 150+ mg dbol/day runs saying he "loved the pump"?
Training for a pump is ridiculous.
I was kind of getting hungry while reading so I figured rather than take the boat out maybe I'd just see if I could land one staight out of the barrel. I guess if a man wants to have some occasional fun it will have to be on a board where he doesn't post so much.Blut Wump said:
Reminds me in college all the bars would empty onto the sidewalk at 2:00 and people would mill around packed shoulder to shoulder. There just happened to be this one spot with a hole that would always be filled with the most scummy water and junk - always ankle deep. For entertainment, my friends and I would stand in a row and direct the flow of traffic around us and toward that hole. We'd get multiple people each night (granted usually we only went to that area on Thurs nights). Full shoe submersion where they'd pull their shoe out and water would squirt out while they walked. Everything from the hottest girl to the scummiest grunge dude. Open fresh air, good friends, good times, and a guaranteed laugh. A friend and I still laugh about it years later.
EDIT: plus I will say I was pretty generous, I have never once used Coleman or any other BBer to rationalize any point in training and there was a lot of logic already worked out. Sort of the same with the puddle, if someone was paying attention and watching where they were going - they didn't step in it. I'm not all bad.
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blut wump
New member
I think my wife must have instilled me with premature mellowing with all the stray dogs she insists on housing. I just had this vision of someone being so careless as to defend the idea that the body has need to have a muscle pumped before it can allow it grow. This would spiral inexorably into nuclear armageddon as plats drew out their bombs and the darkness would fall as the forum slipped into meltdown.
When I was at Uni it was pretty common to get asked directions during the summer months to the various courts and sections of the colleges. All too often by someone puzzling with an upside down map. We eventually decided that anyone who had a map and asked for directions deserved no mercy and we used to trade bragging rights on how far we managed to send them compared with how far they needed to travel. I once sent someone from exactly where they wanted to be down several streets back into another entrance which was about two yards from where they started.
I get the impression that Coleman is extraordinarily strong for a bodybuilder.
When I was at Uni it was pretty common to get asked directions during the summer months to the various courts and sections of the colleges. All too often by someone puzzling with an upside down map. We eventually decided that anyone who had a map and asked for directions deserved no mercy and we used to trade bragging rights on how far we managed to send them compared with how far they needed to travel. I once sent someone from exactly where they wanted to be down several streets back into another entrance which was about two yards from where they started.
I get the impression that Coleman is extraordinarily strong for a bodybuilder.
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rbtrout
New member
I've done both ways......and still do to some extent.....especially on db shoulder presses. On the heavier ones, I get help on the first one, but then I treat it as a weak point and do exactly what was stated and pause all the way at the bottom. Then explode (as much as I can) from the bottom. This allows me to do more weight and work on what I know is a weak spot. It seems to work for me.
jdevlin1985
New member
Madcow2 said:
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Tom Treutlein
New member
You're too set in your ways, but if it's working for you and you're enjoying it, then good luck to you. My opinion still stands in that a pump is not necessary for growth to occur. The same goes for soreness (which some still believe causes growth) which, as we know, means nothing in terms of an exercise's efficacy. That doesn't mean growth cannot occur when these 'symptoms' are present, but I at least wish the point would get across to people that such things are not necessary.
jdevlin1985
New member
Tom Treutlein said:
I agree - Peace mate
jdevlin1985
New member
Tolstoy said:If it was in Flex magazine then it HAS to be right.....
jdevlin1985
New member
Blut Wump said:
I absolutely agree buddie. For me totally strict attention to form only applies with say barbell curls/dumbell curls, laterals, raises, cable pulldowns etc. Come on how is someone going to keep spotless form when pulling 200kg+ off the floor when deadlifting
- not me for sure LOL. And yes cheating is the best way to get those few extra reps at the end of a set which I also use near on every workout.However like I mentioned there are exercise/movements that I feel strict form really applies too and is the best way to gain quality mass
blut wump
New member
You just listed a handful of exercises I don't do anymore or hardly at all.Jdevlin1985 said:I absolutely agree buddie. For me totally strict attention to form only applies with say barbell curls/dumbell curls, laterals, raises, cable pulldowns etc. Come on how is someone going to keep spotless form when pulling 200kg+ off the floor when deadlifting
However like I mentioned there are exercise/movements that I feel strict form really applies too and is the best way to gain quality mass
You're right though, with that list of exercises, they're the exercises you see people heaving too much weight with and wasting their time on as the weight is as nothing to the back and the arms or shoulders miss out as the back takes all the work.
I don't give Ronnie much credit for training knowledge at all - that's the only time I've ever used him in an example and I new it was going to burn me but who'd have thought that badly.
Now that I read that - my God, whoever said or wrote that doesn't have a freaking clue. That's probably the most ignorant thing I've read in a while - no wonder why I don't ever touch BBing mags. What an embarassment. If that is actually Ronnie my already poor opinion of his training and knowledge just went to the total shitter. No one, and I mean - NO ONE, who knows anything about how the body works would say that. We're talking basic knowledge here. My already low respect for BBing and ProBBers and their training just went down 5 notches (for the record that's sub-ground level which I didn't know was possible). When I saw him deadlifting and squatting heavy I figured maybe he at least had some basic knowledge - how wrong I was.
I am honestly totally stunned after reading that. Now I know that there can't ever be ProBBing without a ton of drugs because with ideas like that, they need everything they can pump into themselves to see results.
Now that I read that - my God, whoever said or wrote that doesn't have a freaking clue. That's probably the most ignorant thing I've read in a while - no wonder why I don't ever touch BBing mags. What an embarassment. If that is actually Ronnie my already poor opinion of his training and knowledge just went to the total shitter. No one, and I mean - NO ONE, who knows anything about how the body works would say that. We're talking basic knowledge here. My already low respect for BBing and ProBBers and their training just went down 5 notches (for the record that's sub-ground level which I didn't know was possible). When I saw him deadlifting and squatting heavy I figured maybe he at least had some basic knowledge - how wrong I was.
I am honestly totally stunned after reading that. Now I know that there can't ever be ProBBing without a ton of drugs because with ideas like that, they need everything they can pump into themselves to see results.
musketeer
New member
Madcow2 said:
Worry not MC!
I don't mean to belittle Ronnie or say he's not smart (he wad a qualified accountant for god's sake!) but those are not the words of Coleman! He is just not that articulate a man. I mean rember when he was providing the comentary to the Unbelieveable? His reason for doing barbell front raises was:
"...just to make it three (exercises)."
He then preceded to do a fourth exercise.
Someone has written this shit, asked Ronnie if he'd like to be quoted as saying it!
((this is obviopusly just my opinion, please don't annyone take offence))
