Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below Can ne1 help me with a workout program that covers biceps, triceps, traps, shoulders, legs, forearms, chest, back, and nething else i missed. I am confused on how many days i should workout. I have been training for about 2 yrs. i keep hearing that a person should only work out 3 days a week. My problem is that i dont understand how you can cover all those muscle groups in just three days. So if any of you advanced body builders out there can help me out with a program you would recomend i would be greatly appreciated. Also, My goal is to be 230lbs and cut. i am at 215 with about 13% body fat.
Help With Workout
- Thread starter x1234
- Start date
diamonddiceclay
New member
you should lift 4-6 days a week-each body part once a week
transplant
New member
If you....................
dont like wasting your time, then try Heavy Duty!
I recommend buying Heavy Duty II Mind and Body and you must purchase the Heavy Duty H.I.T. video.
Unless you purchase the video.......you will be somewhat confused and miss some important information.
Good luck!
P.S. Don't be mislead by basic routines that have no thought or reasoning behind it!
dont like wasting your time, then try Heavy Duty!
I recommend buying Heavy Duty II Mind and Body and you must purchase the Heavy Duty H.I.T. video.
Unless you purchase the video.......you will be somewhat confused and miss some important information.
Good luck!
P.S. Don't be mislead by basic routines that have no thought or reasoning behind it!
Workout
Im not a big fan of HIT. It seems to be more for people who are afraid to train like men. I follow Max-OT protocol. 6-9 heavy sets per bodypart, 5 days a week. 2-3 minutes rest between sets. No isolation movements (flyes, concentration curls, etc) ... only multijoint compound movements. Each workout lasts 30-40 minutes. Then I take a whole week off every 8-10 weeks. Give it a try.
Im not a big fan of HIT. It seems to be more for people who are afraid to train like men. I follow Max-OT protocol. 6-9 heavy sets per bodypart, 5 days a week. 2-3 minutes rest between sets. No isolation movements (flyes, concentration curls, etc) ... only multijoint compound movements. Each workout lasts 30-40 minutes. Then I take a whole week off every 8-10 weeks. Give it a try.
Re: Workout
Chest & Tri's
Back & bi's
Legs & shoulders
That of course is just a base, I always mix them up from time to time.
This is pretty much what I do. I didn't know they had a name for it. Anyway, I've always been a firm believer that you take care of the big muscle groups, and the little ones will take care of themselves. I don't directly train forarms or traps. So...NFG123 said:
Chest & Tri's
Back & bi's
Legs & shoulders
That of course is just a base, I always mix them up from time to time.
transplant
New member
I expected...............
some replys about how much they hate H.I.T, but you make the list for the dumbest reply........I have heard yet! "It seems to be for people who are afraid to train like men" You obviously dont have a clue to what the fuck you are talking about.........at all!
Here are some Overtraining symptoms:
1. General feeling of tiredness
2. Irritability
3. Making stupid statements (example
"It seems to be for people who are afraid to train like men"
4. loss of appetite
5. Joint aches
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA!
some replys about how much they hate H.I.T, but you make the list for the dumbest reply........I have heard yet! "It seems to be for people who are afraid to train like men" You obviously dont have a clue to what the fuck you are talking about.........at all!
Here are some Overtraining symptoms:
1. General feeling of tiredness
2. Irritability
3. Making stupid statements (example
"It seems to be for people who are afraid to train like men"4. loss of appetite
5. Joint aches
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA!
ragin'
New member
x1234, you say you're already 215lbs at 13%bf?? dude, how tall are you? you already sound like a monster. how long have you been working out... what kind of training program have you implemented so far? anyway, here's my program for the next few weeks.. see if you like it....
m - chest/bis
tu - quads/calves/abs
w - back/tris
th - rest
fri - shoulders/traps
sat- hams/lower back/abs
sun- rest
note: forearms and cardio at your discresion.
m - chest/bis
tu - quads/calves/abs
w - back/tris
th - rest
fri - shoulders/traps
sat- hams/lower back/abs
sun- rest
note: forearms and cardio at your discresion.
Im about 6' Im a descent size now compare what i was before. I get accused alot by my friends that im juicing but i never touched that stuff yet. I followed a work out from www.mikefrancois.com He has a good program.
As for my workout this is what i have been doing so far but i think that im over training.
M - Chest and Back
T- Bis, Forearms, and Tris
Wed- off
Thur- Traps and shoulders
Fri - Legs
Saturday - Traps and Biceps
Sunday - Maxing Day.
I do four machines per each muscle grp. 12/8/6/3
What do you all think is this too much? Do you have any suggestions.
Thanks for the replies..
M - Chest and Back
T- Bis, Forearms, and Tris
Wed- off
Thur- Traps and shoulders
Fri - Legs
Saturday - Traps and Biceps
Sunday - Maxing Day.
I do four machines per each muscle grp. 12/8/6/3
What do you all think is this too much? Do you have any suggestions.
Thanks for the replies..
Transplant, I must agree with you that there is some really dumb posts, but the one about training like girls is really up there. Anyone, and I mean anyone, who trains 5 days a week, 6-9 sets per bodypart (and likely multiple exercises per bodypart) is sacrificing intensity to survive duration. Additionally, if no isolation exercises are done on the large muscle groups then they will never be fully stimulated. During a compound movement you are only as strong as the weakest muscle. For example, during pull-downs, your arms will give out before your lats.
Remember, you are either mindlessly addicted to exercise or intelligently committed to progress. There is also a third type of person, just plain mindless.
Remember, you are either mindlessly addicted to exercise or intelligently committed to progress. There is also a third type of person, just plain mindless.
transplant
New member
Charlie B.............
Thanks again!
Here again is a classic dumbass who has no idea of what he is talking about! Here is some important info that needs to be posted:
RECUPERATION
You train because you want to get big and essentially the muscle-building process occurs in the following three-stage sequence:
STIMULATION
RECOVERY
GROWTH
When bodybuilders think in terms of recovery of individual bodyparts, but recuperation should also be considered as it applies to the body as a whole entity. The forgotten factor within the construction of a program is that for optimum recovery, the body's overall physiological and nervous system needs whole days at a time free from gym exertions.
Alot of people try to compensate for their overtraining by comsuming alot of calories and outrageous amouts of steroids.
This is why you will see posts about these guys around 150 lbs using 1000mgs of this or that and wondering why they need so much to grow! I know that if you were to take for example 20 mgs of dbol using a type of routine that allows you to recover fully from workout to workout, that your gains will come the same or more and your health would be in check.
As far as NFG123.........you are a idiot!
I do 1 working set per EXERCISE you dumbass!
I can generate enough intensity in each set that would bring someone like you to tears!!!!!!!!!!!
Don't fucking tell me I train like a girl.....BOY!
You have alot to learn !!!!!!!!
Thanks again!
Here again is a classic dumbass who has no idea of what he is talking about! Here is some important info that needs to be posted:
RECUPERATION
You train because you want to get big and essentially the muscle-building process occurs in the following three-stage sequence:
STIMULATION
RECOVERY
GROWTH
When bodybuilders think in terms of recovery of individual bodyparts, but recuperation should also be considered as it applies to the body as a whole entity. The forgotten factor within the construction of a program is that for optimum recovery, the body's overall physiological and nervous system needs whole days at a time free from gym exertions.
Alot of people try to compensate for their overtraining by comsuming alot of calories and outrageous amouts of steroids.
This is why you will see posts about these guys around 150 lbs using 1000mgs of this or that and wondering why they need so much to grow! I know that if you were to take for example 20 mgs of dbol using a type of routine that allows you to recover fully from workout to workout, that your gains will come the same or more and your health would be in check.
As far as NFG123.........you are a idiot!
I do 1 working set per EXERCISE you dumbass!
I can generate enough intensity in each set that would bring someone like you to tears!!!!!!!!!!!
Don't fucking tell me I train like a girl.....BOY!
You have alot to learn !!!!!!!!
HIT AGAIN
transplant.
Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.
6-9 TOTAL sets per bodypart. Not 6-9 per exercise. Read before you speak. For back I usually do 7 sets, three exercises, two sets apiece. And what you said about "weakest muscle group" is bogus. If your triceps are weak, do lying tricep extensions and dips, don't do flyes for chest because you have weak triceps. And don't "pre-exhaust" Exhaustion doesn't promote muscle growth-overload does. The heavier the weight, the more muscle fibers are recruited for the lift and the greater the muscle fibers are stimulated. Doing isolation movements recruits less muscle fibers, doesn't optimally stimulate them, and provides suboptimal conditions for growth. And you think I'm overtraining? Whoa whoa whoa. 30 minute workouts, holmes, 30 minutes. Five days a week. Im natural-have tried HIT-and that it doesn't work. Hasn't worked for me, hasn't worked for anyone I've ever met. I stand by this: HIT is for girls who are afraid to train intensely.
Once again,
Go Heavy or Go Home.
transplant.
Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.
6-9 TOTAL sets per bodypart. Not 6-9 per exercise. Read before you speak. For back I usually do 7 sets, three exercises, two sets apiece. And what you said about "weakest muscle group" is bogus. If your triceps are weak, do lying tricep extensions and dips, don't do flyes for chest because you have weak triceps. And don't "pre-exhaust" Exhaustion doesn't promote muscle growth-overload does. The heavier the weight, the more muscle fibers are recruited for the lift and the greater the muscle fibers are stimulated. Doing isolation movements recruits less muscle fibers, doesn't optimally stimulate them, and provides suboptimal conditions for growth. And you think I'm overtraining? Whoa whoa whoa. 30 minute workouts, holmes, 30 minutes. Five days a week. Im natural-have tried HIT-and that it doesn't work. Hasn't worked for me, hasn't worked for anyone I've ever met. I stand by this: HIT is for girls who are afraid to train intensely.
Once again,
Go Heavy or Go Home.
NFG123, here is a simple question. If you can answer it I will change the way I workout. Here it is, if one set to "complete muscular failure" is all it takes to stimulate the muscle to adapt by growing, then why is 6-9 sets necessary? I'll even compromise and say 2 sets to failure just to make sure adaption has been triggered, but why 6-9, why not 12-15? Most people fail to get maximum results because of either not training hard enough or trainining too hard, too often.
transplant
New member
I don't belive you understand...........
The only flaw I see with your program is training too often and as far as sets, I dont know how much intensity you are using per set, so I cannot say if it is too much!
H.I.T. works if you adjust it to your own body type.
Everyone who seems to not like this style is because they dont understand it or the fact that the routines are a suggested routine and is to be adjusted per persons recovery ability.
H.I.T. is the most misunderstood way of training. When you read the book and do the research you will find that it gives you the ability to use your brain to tell you what your body takes to stimulate and recover from workout to workout.
This is why I reply to these posts............to help people learn to experiment and to know their own body to use this or any type of workout to get maximum results! You could do the routine you have listed and get results, but you are short changing your recovery ability thus leading quickly to a point of overtraining.
If you intrested in learning a thing or two on the subject try this web site:
www.cyberpump.com
pre-exhaustion:
With many conventional exercises, it is not always possible for the muscles involved to exert 100% of their contractile ability because of the involvement of "weak links." Your are limited due to your shoulder or triceps on a incline press!If you pre-Exhaust, weak links such as the triceps and shoulders will have a temporary strength advantage, and thus serve the pre-exhausted pecs, which can now contract with 100% of their momentary ability in the incline press, and thus achieve full growth stimulation. I dont understand your point of no overload!!!
This is overloading, if you train to failure!!!!!!!!!!
Not to insult you, but you need to research more on exercise functions and training methods. I can debate this forever with facts vrs your theory. It is good to think, but have some data that backs it.
The only flaw I see with your program is training too often and as far as sets, I dont know how much intensity you are using per set, so I cannot say if it is too much!
H.I.T. works if you adjust it to your own body type.
Everyone who seems to not like this style is because they dont understand it or the fact that the routines are a suggested routine and is to be adjusted per persons recovery ability.
H.I.T. is the most misunderstood way of training. When you read the book and do the research you will find that it gives you the ability to use your brain to tell you what your body takes to stimulate and recover from workout to workout.
This is why I reply to these posts............to help people learn to experiment and to know their own body to use this or any type of workout to get maximum results! You could do the routine you have listed and get results, but you are short changing your recovery ability thus leading quickly to a point of overtraining.
If you intrested in learning a thing or two on the subject try this web site:
www.cyberpump.com
pre-exhaustion:
With many conventional exercises, it is not always possible for the muscles involved to exert 100% of their contractile ability because of the involvement of "weak links." Your are limited due to your shoulder or triceps on a incline press!If you pre-Exhaust, weak links such as the triceps and shoulders will have a temporary strength advantage, and thus serve the pre-exhausted pecs, which can now contract with 100% of their momentary ability in the incline press, and thus achieve full growth stimulation. I dont understand your point of no overload!!!
This is overloading, if you train to failure!!!!!!!!!!
Not to insult you, but you need to research more on exercise functions and training methods. I can debate this forever with facts vrs your theory. It is good to think, but have some data that backs it.
HIT me again and again
Transplant,
I have plent of data to back up these findings. Many studies have been done and conclusively, INTENSITY is the most important factor. Many more recent studies have shown that EXPLOSIVE movements recruit far more muscle fibers than a nonexplosive one, and result in a statistically significant increase in lean mass gain over those who use a nonexplosive movement.
HOWEVER,
Email me: [email protected] and give me one of your HIT routines and I'll give it a try for four weeks. I didn't have any luck with it before, doing wholebody routines twice a week, compound movements, but maybe it will work now?
Transplant,
I have plent of data to back up these findings. Many studies have been done and conclusively, INTENSITY is the most important factor. Many more recent studies have shown that EXPLOSIVE movements recruit far more muscle fibers than a nonexplosive one, and result in a statistically significant increase in lean mass gain over those who use a nonexplosive movement.
HOWEVER,
Email me: [email protected] and give me one of your HIT routines and I'll give it a try for four weeks. I didn't have any luck with it before, doing wholebody routines twice a week, compound movements, but maybe it will work now?
Doing HIT means you are doing full body workouts each time you lift? I consider myself a HITer but I don't do that. I do a relatively more traditional 3 day split. The only difference between what I do and what most other people do is, I do relatively low volume (hardly ever more than 1 set per exercise) and take each set to failure. I also do each rep somewhat slowly (compared to what a lot of other people I see doing in the gym).
Blood&Iron
New member
Re: HIT AGAIN
BTW, Max-OT is somewhat HIT-like in its recommendations.
As for whole-body routines, I've never made great progress using them. I prefer to split things up a bit, but keep my volume quite low. I am open to other approaches, however. My next mass-cycle I plan on trying German Volume. And I may give Brian Haycock's Hypertrophy Specific Training a shot at some point(Though the fact that it is a periodized approach makes me suspicious.) Some HIT guys would castigate me for trying these things, but I think one should be open-minded. The biggest problem I have with Mentzer, Hutchins, etc. is the idea that there is one "perfect" way to do things. HIT is great. Is it the only system that will work? No. Dogmatism is endemic to the lifting community. Frequently discussions are reduced to: "Westside is best." "No, Westside sucks, SuperSlow is best." carried on ad nauseum. I do my best to fight this kind of crap. Hard, progressive work, plenty of rest, and eating well are the most important factors to any approach.
Now this is comedy.NFG123 said:
BTW, Max-OT is somewhat HIT-like in its recommendations.
As for whole-body routines, I've never made great progress using them. I prefer to split things up a bit, but keep my volume quite low. I am open to other approaches, however. My next mass-cycle I plan on trying German Volume. And I may give Brian Haycock's Hypertrophy Specific Training a shot at some point(Though the fact that it is a periodized approach makes me suspicious.) Some HIT guys would castigate me for trying these things, but I think one should be open-minded. The biggest problem I have with Mentzer, Hutchins, etc. is the idea that there is one "perfect" way to do things. HIT is great. Is it the only system that will work? No. Dogmatism is endemic to the lifting community. Frequently discussions are reduced to: "Westside is best." "No, Westside sucks, SuperSlow is best." carried on ad nauseum. I do my best to fight this kind of crap. Hard, progressive work, plenty of rest, and eating well are the most important factors to any approach.
transplant
New member
O.K guys..............
I know alot of you tried H.I.T. before and maybe it has not worked for you before......................things have probable changed since last time you have checked! The most effective way to do a H.I.T. workout is to split it up. Now, explosive movements.....I am glad you brought that up! You are correct....but only half correct. This is how you use explosive movements in your exercises.............for example incline bench press.....as your lowering the bar to your chest, before it touches your chest you go from a downward movement and quickly reverse direction as in a snap.....this normally would be called using momentum. Doing this only at the bottom of that exercise cause a major muscular contraction, thus stimulating growth!
These subjects again are missing from Heavy Duty books, but in this video I have been talking about shows you! There is so much more than just training to failure. If you put or include these few little details in your workouts......makes a difference!
I am glad NFG123 you are now paying attention!
I wish these things were more clear in the Heavy Duty books....this would lead to a better understanding of the whole concept of Heavy Duty! This is the only mistake Mentzer has made, but again the video with introduce things that have been missed. I have been studying H.I.T for awhile and I found this to be the most result producing workouts out there!!!!
Now.....NFG123....try this first!
Add some rest days in between your workouts.......then when your progress slows again......drop some sets......then add some more rest days...ect...ect....ect
This way you dont have to convert right away!
The name of the game is recuperation and this is as just as important as training! If your body can recuperate doing 6 to 9 sets per bodypart great......but soon you have to degrade those sets due to your recovery ability catching up with you thus to compensate you reduce your training or the amout of overload!
No one routine is perfect unless you make it perfect for yourself!
Mentzer's routines are said in the book as a suggested routine and therefore is to be used as a guide. To first achieve your goal you must know your body and how it adapts to things such as training, food and recuperation. I have various books on the subject and I am not trying to lead you astray, but help you the best way I know how. The post I put up about recovery is not just very important it everything! This is what holds people back for reaching their goals.
NFG123 try what I said....you wont be disappointed!
I know alot of you tried H.I.T. before and maybe it has not worked for you before......................things have probable changed since last time you have checked! The most effective way to do a H.I.T. workout is to split it up. Now, explosive movements.....I am glad you brought that up! You are correct....but only half correct. This is how you use explosive movements in your exercises.............for example incline bench press.....as your lowering the bar to your chest, before it touches your chest you go from a downward movement and quickly reverse direction as in a snap.....this normally would be called using momentum. Doing this only at the bottom of that exercise cause a major muscular contraction, thus stimulating growth!
These subjects again are missing from Heavy Duty books, but in this video I have been talking about shows you! There is so much more than just training to failure. If you put or include these few little details in your workouts......makes a difference!
I am glad NFG123 you are now paying attention!
I wish these things were more clear in the Heavy Duty books....this would lead to a better understanding of the whole concept of Heavy Duty! This is the only mistake Mentzer has made, but again the video with introduce things that have been missed. I have been studying H.I.T for awhile and I found this to be the most result producing workouts out there!!!!
Now.....NFG123....try this first!
Add some rest days in between your workouts.......then when your progress slows again......drop some sets......then add some more rest days...ect...ect....ect
This way you dont have to convert right away!
The name of the game is recuperation and this is as just as important as training! If your body can recuperate doing 6 to 9 sets per bodypart great......but soon you have to degrade those sets due to your recovery ability catching up with you thus to compensate you reduce your training or the amout of overload!
No one routine is perfect unless you make it perfect for yourself!
Mentzer's routines are said in the book as a suggested routine and therefore is to be used as a guide. To first achieve your goal you must know your body and how it adapts to things such as training, food and recuperation. I have various books on the subject and I am not trying to lead you astray, but help you the best way I know how. The post I put up about recovery is not just very important it everything! This is what holds people back for reaching their goals.
NFG123 try what I said....you wont be disappointed!
Re: Re: HIT AGAIN
NO! Don't leave the HIT style! J/K of course...
Btw, keep us posted on your progress with those other styles when you try them out. I'm very curious about other lifting methodologies...
Blood&Iron said:
Now this is comedy.
BTW, Max-OT is somewhat HIT-like in its recommendations.
As for whole-body routines, I've never made great progress using them. I prefer to split things up a bit, but keep my volume quite low. I am open to other approaches, however. My next mass-cycle I plan on trying German Volume. And I may give Brian Haycock's Hypertrophy Specific Training a shot at some point(Though the fact that it is a periodized approach makes me suspicious.) Some HIT guys would castigate me for trying these things, but I think one should be open-minded. The biggest problem I have with Mentzer, Hutchins, etc. is the idea that there is one "perfect" way to do things. HIT is great. Is it the only system that will work? No. Dogmatism is endemic to the lifting community. Frequently discussions are reduced to: "Westside is best." "No, Westside sucks, SuperSlow is best." carried on ad nauseum. I do my best to fight this kind of crap. Hard, progressive work, plenty of rest, and eating well are the most important factors to any approach.
NO! Don't leave the HIT style! J/K of course...
Btw, keep us posted on your progress with those other styles when you try them out. I'm very curious about other lifting methodologies...
Blood&Iron
New member
Re: Re: Re: HIT AGAIN
10x10 calf-raises performed on the leg-press
5x10 seated calf-raises
I take minimal rest--about a minute between sets--and none of the sets are to failure. Basically, this is quite similar to German Volume Training(GVT). I've read a number of things on GVT from several authors whom I respect, saying that if one has been performing low-reps for an extended period of time switching to GVT may result in very impressive results in hypertrophy. The fact that I'm dieting, will of course, seriously compromise my results, but I thought I'd give it a try anyway. So far, so good.
Well, this probably more properly belongs in your thread on training frequency for calves and forearms, but I've been experimenting with calf-training. I've been dieting for the past 5 weeks and while dieting I usually add in a moderate amount of cardio. This consists of 30 minutes on a treadmill at a 15 degree angle at about 3.5-4 mph, performed 3 times a week. My calves get noticeably bigger from this even though I'm dieting. Well, figuring this is a consequence of a high-volume of low intensity work, I figure I'd take the idea even further. So I've started doing a calf workout after every cardio session, which consists of:DaCypher said:
10x10 calf-raises performed on the leg-press
5x10 seated calf-raises
I take minimal rest--about a minute between sets--and none of the sets are to failure. Basically, this is quite similar to German Volume Training(GVT). I've read a number of things on GVT from several authors whom I respect, saying that if one has been performing low-reps for an extended period of time switching to GVT may result in very impressive results in hypertrophy. The fact that I'm dieting, will of course, seriously compromise my results, but I thought I'd give it a try anyway. So far, so good.
transplant
New member
well......
The calf muscle has the ability to recover faster than any of the muscles and the factor of you not training to failure also helps you to recover quicker! Just curious......how is the rest of your training going? This muscle is a trickey subject!!!!!!!!!!
As far as GVT your body has the ability to adapt to things, but it won't be long before it comes to a dead stop. Your body has to overcome and recover from each workout....so with GVD you are not pushing to your limits (failure) each and every set. Let me ask you this.........if....and if you know that you could train very briefly, but really intense and you will see results on almost a no stop basis vrs training for hours and your progress is limited....what would you choose? I know that nothing is infinate, but you will get double or triple the amount of gains before you reach that point on a system which allows you to fully recover. I personally like a routine that I can control the overtraining factor and I will know right away when my progress is starting to stall! Which leads me to........most people will gain off of any specific routine, if it is a reasonable one --- but not for long! The whole concept is that your body can take a certian amout of abuse for only so long as with your ability to recover from workout to workout. What ever you choose.....good luck! One more thing........Have you noticed that you always come back stronger after a layoff.......this makes my case of overtraining that you dug such a deep hole in your recovery system that you needed all that time to recover from all that and put you back into the positive of the recovery system again. This is what people call peroidization!
The calf muscle has the ability to recover faster than any of the muscles and the factor of you not training to failure also helps you to recover quicker! Just curious......how is the rest of your training going? This muscle is a trickey subject!!!!!!!!!!
As far as GVT your body has the ability to adapt to things, but it won't be long before it comes to a dead stop. Your body has to overcome and recover from each workout....so with GVD you are not pushing to your limits (failure) each and every set. Let me ask you this.........if....and if you know that you could train very briefly, but really intense and you will see results on almost a no stop basis vrs training for hours and your progress is limited....what would you choose? I know that nothing is infinate, but you will get double or triple the amount of gains before you reach that point on a system which allows you to fully recover. I personally like a routine that I can control the overtraining factor and I will know right away when my progress is starting to stall! Which leads me to........most people will gain off of any specific routine, if it is a reasonable one --- but not for long! The whole concept is that your body can take a certian amout of abuse for only so long as with your ability to recover from workout to workout. What ever you choose.....good luck! One more thing........Have you noticed that you always come back stronger after a layoff.......this makes my case of overtraining that you dug such a deep hole in your recovery system that you needed all that time to recover from all that and put you back into the positive of the recovery system again. This is what people call peroidization!
Blood&Iron
New member
Re: well......
Don't take this the wrong way, but I think a great many people get turned off to HIT because of this sort of preachiness. Now what you've written here isn't all that bad, but if you'd been on the boards for a little while and seen some of my previous posts you'd have seen I've one of the biggest proponents of HIT. I'm plenty familiar with Jones' theories(I don't consider Mentzer to have added all that much to his concepts, though he refined them a bit, as have Ken Hutchins and a number of other people) and there are flaws in certain aspects of their reasoning. When I start to use GVT it will only be for 2-4 weeks, and I think most authors recommend only a short time of using this. The idea is simply to foster sarcoplasmic(non-contractile) growth which does not tend to occur with low-volume approaches.transplant said:
transplant
New member
Sorry man,
yeah I have been preaching alot lately!
It just seems alot of guys are confused or just curious. There is just so much to H.I.T. that is not discussed or just plain missed!
Mentzer is misunderstood alot and even in his book Heavy Duty II is sort of confusing with his listed routine! I like his routine, but as far as legs twice before the upperbody has been completed is not that great of an idea untill your in the stage of which your finding you have to take more than 5 or 6 days to recover from a upper body workout. This is when his idea should be introduced.
Anyway, glad to hear your a H.I.T. man!
yeah I have been preaching alot lately!
It just seems alot of guys are confused or just curious. There is just so much to H.I.T. that is not discussed or just plain missed!
Mentzer is misunderstood alot and even in his book Heavy Duty II is sort of confusing with his listed routine! I like his routine, but as far as legs twice before the upperbody has been completed is not that great of an idea untill your in the stage of which your finding you have to take more than 5 or 6 days to recover from a upper body workout. This is when his idea should be introduced.
Anyway, glad to hear your a H.I.T. man!
transplant
New member
what I ............
I mean that after 5 or 6 days of rest and little or no increase in weight or reps, using the current Heavy Duty II workout. That is when you do the legs twice vrs ruducing the training or adding extra rest days more than specified!
Jones is the MAN and Mentzer has added to the Jones theory alittle........as a matter of fact he refers to Jones alot in his books and from reading his books, the only thing that has really changed is the subject of recovery ability......which is very important! Not familiar with Ken Hutchins though! If I not mistaken I have seen bits of his writings on cyberpump. I will check it it!
Thanks
I mean that after 5 or 6 days of rest and little or no increase in weight or reps, using the current Heavy Duty II workout. That is when you do the legs twice vrs ruducing the training or adding extra rest days more than specified!
Jones is the MAN and Mentzer has added to the Jones theory alittle........as a matter of fact he refers to Jones alot in his books and from reading his books, the only thing that has really changed is the subject of recovery ability......which is very important! Not familiar with Ken Hutchins though! If I not mistaken I have seen bits of his writings on cyberpump. I will check it it!
Thanks
Blood&Iron
New member
Re: what I ............
Hutchins is the guy who "invented" SuperSlow(tm), though the concept of performing very sloooow reps has been around for a long time. If nothing else, he patented the idea. I think he's got some interesting things to say about exercise, but he and his followers(Andrew Baye is/was one of his most vocal proponents and has a number of writings on Cyberpump, in addition to having designed the original site.) tend to be pretty fanatical which really turns me off. Hutchins is a friend of Ellington Darden, who for a time, and maybe still, espouses SuperSlow. Hutchins worked with him and Jones at Nautilus. Jones has said some really negative things about Hutchins(I'm not sure, but I think he threatened death against him. Typically of Arthur.) Mentzer and Hutchins also had some pretty heated exchanges if I recall correctly. The biggest strike against him IMO is that my favorite guru, Lyle McDonald, really hates him. It's hard to know whom to believe, but I tend to go with McDonald. I don't think anybody has all the answers, though.transplant said:
Transplant,
I once asked Mike about his HDII workout, and why upper body was only completely worked every two weeks. His exact words to me were, "Charles, I'm disappointed in you." He then began to explain the concept of overlap. If you look at the chest/back routine, you will see that the isolation exercises focus on the chest/back, but the compound movements also work the shoulders/arms. The same holds true for the shoulder/arm day. Basically, what Mike discovered was that his clients were not getting enough recovery while doing shoulder/arms and chest/back in the same week due to overlap. Given that localized and systemic recovery can take up to 96 hours and overcompensation (growth) can take up to another 96 hours, this would make sense.
I once asked Mike about his HDII workout, and why upper body was only completely worked every two weeks. His exact words to me were, "Charles, I'm disappointed in you." He then began to explain the concept of overlap. If you look at the chest/back routine, you will see that the isolation exercises focus on the chest/back, but the compound movements also work the shoulders/arms. The same holds true for the shoulder/arm day. Basically, what Mike discovered was that his clients were not getting enough recovery while doing shoulder/arms and chest/back in the same week due to overlap. Given that localized and systemic recovery can take up to 96 hours and overcompensation (growth) can take up to another 96 hours, this would make sense.
transplant
New member
Charlie B
I know.........I guess I am looking for an excuse to train upperbody more often! He is my problem with my routine......
Now chest and back day:
After training chest i am pooped! Training back at that time is a chore for me! Along with this......my triceps are so damm sore even when I pre-exhaust the chest. My chest recovers faster and have to wait on the tri's.....fuck-up huh? Now I have just started this .....let me know how you feel about this:
Day 1
chest and biceps
Day 2
Legs
Day 3
Back and triceps
Day 4
Legs
Now this way on day 3 when I do triceps I am still involving chest in that superset and also can devote full intensity to the back without the problem of cardiorespiratory insufficiency! Now I just completed the day 3 and seem to have been able to really blast my back!
What do you think? Should I just rest longer after doing chest, than do back?
I know.........I guess I am looking for an excuse to train upperbody more often! He is my problem with my routine......
Now chest and back day:
After training chest i am pooped! Training back at that time is a chore for me! Along with this......my triceps are so damm sore even when I pre-exhaust the chest. My chest recovers faster and have to wait on the tri's.....fuck-up huh? Now I have just started this .....let me know how you feel about this:
Day 1
chest and biceps
Day 2
Legs
Day 3
Back and triceps
Day 4
Legs
Now this way on day 3 when I do triceps I am still involving chest in that superset and also can devote full intensity to the back without the problem of cardiorespiratory insufficiency! Now I just completed the day 3 and seem to have been able to really blast my back!
What do you think? Should I just rest longer after doing chest, than do back?
There is nothing wrong with making periodic modifications, as long as you stick to the basic principles, which it sounds like that is what you are doing. If a workout becomes stale, it can become difficult to really put yourself into it. The only thing that I don't see is any isolation work on the shoulders. Did you leave it off because it isn't a problem area and you feel that it gets enough work during the compound movements?
Also, ref your recovery question. Use your workout log as a guide to determine if you are getting enough rest between sessions. Remember, an extra day off is never a bad thing. If you just can't resist going to the gym, then just go and do like alot of guys I've seen, go play around with some baby weights and socialize. 
Rethinking the matter ... HIT ... analyze this
Albeit, I've had NO success with this style of training. I'm thinking about giving it a go again this month just to switch things up a bit. Critique this split all you like, suggestions are good. Also, realize Im using the exercises that work best on my body.
Monday: Chest, Shoulders, Triceps
(HIT style, 2 second concentric, 4 second eccentric)
Incline Bench: 6-10 reps
Flat Dumbell Press: 6-10 reps
Seated Military Press: 6-10 reps
Dumbell Side Laterals: 8-10 reps
Lying Tricep Extensions: 6-10 reps
Dips: 6-10 reps
(Ab work)
Wednesday: Back, Traps, Biceps
(HIT style as above)
Bentover Rows: 6-10 reps
Close-grip Pulldowns: 6-10 reps
Deadlifts: 6-8 reps
Dumbell Shrugs: 8-12 reps
Cambered Bar Curls: 6-10 reps
Friday: Legs
Squat (2 sets): 8-10 reps
Leg Extensions: 6-10 reps
Stiff-legged Deadlift: 6-8 reps
Seated Calf Raises: 8-12 reps
Standing Calf Raises: 8-12 reps
(Ab work)
I don't think there is any possible way on God's green earth this would lead to a state of OVERTRAINING. I am 20, get buttloads of sleep and eat 4000 calories a day. My main concern is UNDERTRAINING. Will this be the appropriate volume I need to stimulate sufficient hypertrophy?
--New Guy
Albeit, I've had NO success with this style of training. I'm thinking about giving it a go again this month just to switch things up a bit. Critique this split all you like, suggestions are good. Also, realize Im using the exercises that work best on my body.
Monday: Chest, Shoulders, Triceps
(HIT style, 2 second concentric, 4 second eccentric)
Incline Bench: 6-10 reps
Flat Dumbell Press: 6-10 reps
Seated Military Press: 6-10 reps
Dumbell Side Laterals: 8-10 reps
Lying Tricep Extensions: 6-10 reps
Dips: 6-10 reps
(Ab work)
Wednesday: Back, Traps, Biceps
(HIT style as above)
Bentover Rows: 6-10 reps
Close-grip Pulldowns: 6-10 reps
Deadlifts: 6-8 reps
Dumbell Shrugs: 8-12 reps
Cambered Bar Curls: 6-10 reps
Friday: Legs
Squat (2 sets): 8-10 reps
Leg Extensions: 6-10 reps
Stiff-legged Deadlift: 6-8 reps
Seated Calf Raises: 8-12 reps
Standing Calf Raises: 8-12 reps
(Ab work)
I don't think there is any possible way on God's green earth this would lead to a state of OVERTRAINING. I am 20, get buttloads of sleep and eat 4000 calories a day. My main concern is UNDERTRAINING. Will this be the appropriate volume I need to stimulate sufficient hypertrophy?
--New Guy
transplant
New member
I know whay you are.......
saying! Try it out.....the routine you have listed.......now as soon as your reps aren't going up and your unhappy with the progress then you start resting more! It sound like alot of shit, but you are not going to lose size.................I weighed 205 and was afraid of losing and was really keeping an eye on the size of my arms, chest and legs. Needless to say I was so impressed with the results that no matter if I thought I was undertraining or not I kept up with it and boy did it pay off! I am currently 220 at 5'8 and was and am resting anywhere for 3 to5 days between workouts. Now I know your probably thinking ....yeah half is fat......No, not at all! I kept bodyfat records and everything, so if it didn't work.....I would not be defending it at all! Give your routine your best efforts and I am sure if you stay with it....you will be happy with it and have more time to do whatever you want!
Dont get frustrated because of the lack of training........you should be getting pissed about lack of results!
Good luck and I want to hear how you making out!
saying! Try it out.....the routine you have listed.......now as soon as your reps aren't going up and your unhappy with the progress then you start resting more! It sound like alot of shit, but you are not going to lose size.................I weighed 205 and was afraid of losing and was really keeping an eye on the size of my arms, chest and legs. Needless to say I was so impressed with the results that no matter if I thought I was undertraining or not I kept up with it and boy did it pay off! I am currently 220 at 5'8 and was and am resting anywhere for 3 to5 days between workouts. Now I know your probably thinking ....yeah half is fat......No, not at all! I kept bodyfat records and everything, so if it didn't work.....I would not be defending it at all! Give your routine your best efforts and I am sure if you stay with it....you will be happy with it and have more time to do whatever you want!
Dont get frustrated because of the lack of training........you should be getting pissed about lack of results!
Good luck and I want to hear how you making out!
transplant
New member
Charlie B
Yeah......forgot to add the shoulders! I am doing the Heavy Duty II workout as described! I did add one exercise (E-z bar bent over row) to the back workout though, otherwise everything is the same!
Yeah......forgot to add the shoulders! I am doing the Heavy Duty II workout as described! I did add one exercise (E-z bar bent over row) to the back workout though, otherwise everything is the same!
