Help with Lifting Schedule

[Elementality]

Hey, looking for some good advise on pushing the weights up on all of my lifts..seem to hit a plateau.

185 lbs, 5'9, 22 years old. Work/school, flexible schedule for gym, can make it 5-6 times a week without stress.

Protein: 150 + grams daily
Supps: Noxplode(or AMP 02 i cycle them), L-glutamine, whey shakes.

So, ive talked to some random heads at the gym during spot hook ups and I think my main problem is in two areas: Lifting methods and order of workouts.

For example, i always flat bench every time i do bench, then incline, then decline... I'm thinking perhaps i should do benches first chest day of week and then second chest day of week maybe do dumbells and cables so my body doesn't get settled in and resistant to change?

An example of my other problem, order of workouts is the following. I did heavy squats on tuesday and then wednesday i did chest. My bench that day was horrible, and i couldnt understand why < good sleep, diet etc >. Some fellard who was spotting me asked if i had done squats the day before, and I had. He said that exercise is the core of the body so it will limit workotus like benchpress if you don't rest....

So my over all question here is whats a good lifting schedule if Im going for big n bulk, not so much small and cut. Anyone have a good Monday - Sunday lifting routine that they could post? thanks

 

[Tatyana]

I am sure some people might help you, however after your first thread where you called people a number of names and kicked off a bit, I would not expect it to happen fast.

If you want to get big, I wouldn't be lifting 5 times a week, I would drop back to two or three times a week, doing a full bodyworkout, high intensity. One exercise per body part, back to basics, old school, compounds.

Do the same routine until you adapt (could be anywhere from 6-12 workouts) or you notice you are not making gains, so keep a training/weight/measurements diary.

I would recommend anything by Stuart McRoberts, he also has a great guide to proper form for weight training, or search the stickies or this forum for a bit more info.

No cardio.

 

[mad dipz]

Hey, looking for some good advise on pushing the weights up on all of my lifts..seem to hit a plateau.

185 lbs, 5'9, 22 years old. Work/school, flexible schedule for gym, can make it 5-6 times a week without stress.

Protein: 150 + grams daily
Supps: Noxplode(or AMP 02 i cycle them), L-glutamine, whey shakes.

So, ive talked to some random heads at the gym during spot hook ups and I think my main problem is in two areas: Lifting methods and order of workouts.

For example, i always flat bench every time i do bench, then incline, then decline... I'm thinking perhaps i should do benches first chest day of week and then second chest day of week maybe do dumbells and cables so my body doesn't get settled in and resistant to change?

An example of my other problem, order of workouts is the following. I did heavy squats on tuesday and then wednesday i did chest. My bench that day was horrible, and i couldnt understand why < good sleep, diet etc >. Some fellard who was spotting me asked if i had done squats the day before, and I had. He said that exercise is the core of the body so it will limit workotus like benchpress if you don't rest....

So my over all question here is whats a good lifting schedule if Im going for big n bulk, not so much small and cut. Anyone have a good Monday - Sunday lifting routine that they could post? thanks

I agree with tatyana, it looks like you're lifting too much if you're doing mon-sun. of course I don't really know because I'm getting half of your story here, and if you're doing them without stress, maybe you're not doing enough? what is your actual schedule? were you increasing weight weekly? what are your lifting stats right now? we should see your diet too, as that could be a problem, and from looking at what you're posting partially, you need to up your protein intake if you're at 185 lbs.

as for the guy that said squats will affect your bench, I wouldn't worry much about that. Look at the power transfer from each lift. Squats is transferred from you're feet pushing on the ground on up through your core. Now think about the benchpress, which is transferred from your upper back/shoulders pushing on the bench on up through your arms. You aren't using your legs/core to transfer that energy on up. So it's safe to squat a day before benching, even more safer since you're getting a full 24 hours rest. Hell, I squat right before I bench on my mwf workouts. And the right diet and rest is helping my lifts go up each time in progression.

 

[Elementality]

This is what the plan is for here on out. Going to try and do 1(somtimes 2) workouts only for each muscle group everytime i goto gym, and then change it up so i never do the same exercise for a muscle group consecutively. (A, B, C style).

Day 1: (monday) Chest/shoulders/Tris
Day 1 - A: Flat Bench press, reverse curl for triceps, butterfly and straight out motion with dumbells for shoulders
B: Incline/flat dumbell presses, pull down on ropes for tris, military press for shoulders.
C: Decline bench press, bar dips for tris, clean n' jerk for shoulders.

Day 2: (Tuesday) Legs and Biceps similar A, B, C change up style for lifting techniques.

Day 3: (Thursday) Backs, traps, and Abes similar A, B, C change up style for lifting techniques. For back I'm thinking the 3 main exercises will be lat pull downs, low cable row and deadlift (with a few other exercises i'll alternate over the months on addition to the 3). Back is big muscle group so i think i may do 2 exercises each back session instead of 1 like the other muscle groups.

Day 4: (Friday or Saturday) Chest/shoulders/tri Depending on how im feeling and if that chest day is goin to be demanding <like flat bench day>

I will change the overall exercises in the A, B, C style <for example add incline bench press and take out decline bench press or something every month or so>

Right now my stats are weak, I just started lifting again about a month and a half ago <after 2 year break>... But, I have been in good shape <not good powerlifting shape obviously>, I am active and I surf a few times a week which involves a lot of swimming <keeping my back, shoulders, and tri's semi loose for lifting>

Stats for main lifts: (stats listed after warm up sets)

Curl with the 25 weighted preacher bar - 27.5 on both sides, rep at about 5 - 6 times with good form.

Flat bench with 40 weighted barbell - 45 + 15 on both sides <so a total bench of 160ish, yes pathetic i know but i gotta start somewhere> repping at about 5 times with good, fluid form.

Squat - I can do 5 sets with 8-10 reps having 45 + 25 on both sides.

My meals usually consist of 3 solid meals a day with shakes/snacks inbetween.

Morning - (5 grams of L glutamin and 1 tablespoon of flax oil) somewhere in the lines of 3 hardboiled eggs with two pieces of 100 % whole grain wheat toast, 1 bannana, 20oz water, 1 yogurt.

Usually lift sometimes after that and have a 20 oz whey shake with 24 g of protein from whey and 24ish grams of protein from milk since thats what i mix it with..

After noon meal - whatever i can get my hands on...Eat out or at home, I try and go for chicken/hamburger for around 35 - 50 grams of animal protein. Salad or veggies. Side like beans/potatoes.

Snack time - usually carrots/almonds/peanuts/peanutbutter jelly sandwhich/beef jerky.

Dinner. something like my lunch but more complete and healthier.

Before bed - (5 grams of l-glutamin 1 tablespoon of flax oil) Whey shake like the one previously listed.

Again, 185 lbs, 5'8 - 5'9. naturally bigger than average build, fairly low on body fat <dont know %>... when i sit down i have a little bit of blubber on my gut, but not much and would be considered skinny if it werent for my natural husky build.

 

[coreyb]

Man up and do a 5x5 style workout.

 

[liegelord]

I agree, you could even do a 3x5 and do well. I don't know why so many guys complicate things. Below has served me well and you learn to make adjustments along the way, such as varying the reps. Alternate the following MWF:

A: olympic squats, bench, pendlay rows, standing OH press
B: conventional deadlift, dips, chins, OH press

If you have a coach or someone to help, cleans can be subbed in for deadlifts.

 

[mad dipz]

This is what the plan is for here on out. Going to try and do 1(somtimes 2) workouts only for each muscle group everytime i goto gym, and then change it up so i never do the same exercise for a muscle group consecutively. (A, B, C style).

Day 1: (monday) Chest/shoulders/Tris
Day 1 - A: Flat Bench press, reverse curl for triceps, butterfly and straight out motion with dumbells for shoulders
B: Incline/flat dumbell presses, pull down on ropes for tris, military press for shoulders.
C: Decline bench press, bar dips for tris, clean n' jerk for shoulders.

Day 2: (Tuesday) Legs and Biceps similar A, B, C change up style for lifting techniques.

Day 3: (Thursday) Backs, traps, and Abes similar A, B, C change up style for lifting techniques. For back I'm thinking the 3 main exercises will be lat pull downs, low cable row and deadlift (with a few other exercises i'll alternate over the months on addition to the 3). Back is big muscle group so i think i may do 2 exercises each back session instead of 1 like the other muscle groups.

Day 4: (Friday or Saturday) Chest/shoulders/tri Depending on how im feeling and if that chest day is goin to be demanding <like flat bench day>

I will change the overall exercises in the A, B, C style <for example add incline bench press and take out decline bench press or something every month or so>

Right now my stats are weak, I just started lifting again about a month and a half ago <after 2 year break>... But, I have been in good shape <not good powerlifting shape obviously>, I am active and I surf a few times a week which involves a lot of swimming <keeping my back, shoulders, and tri's semi loose for lifting>

Stats for main lifts: (stats listed after warm up sets)

Curl with the 25 weighted preacher bar - 27.5 on both sides, rep at about 5 - 6 times with good form.

Flat bench with 40 weighted barbell - 45 + 15 on both sides <so a total bench of 160ish, yes pathetic i know but i gotta start somewhere> repping at about 5 times with good, fluid form.

Squat - I can do 5 sets with 8-10 reps having 45 + 25 on both sides.

My meals usually consist of 3 solid meals a day with shakes/snacks inbetween.

Morning - (5 grams of L glutamin and 1 tablespoon of flax oil) somewhere in the lines of 3 hardboiled eggs with two pieces of 100 % whole grain wheat toast, 1 bannana, 20oz water, 1 yogurt.

Usually lift sometimes after that and have a 20 oz whey shake with 24 g of protein from whey and 24ish grams of protein from milk since thats what i mix it with..

After noon meal - whatever i can get my hands on...Eat out or at home, I try and go for chicken/hamburger for around 35 - 50 grams of animal protein. Salad or veggies. Side like beans/potatoes.

Snack time - usually carrots/almonds/peanuts/peanutbutter jelly sandwhich/beef jerky.

Dinner. something like my lunch but more complete and healthier.

Before bed - (5 grams of l-glutamin 1 tablespoon of flax oil) Whey shake like the one previously listed.

Again, 185 lbs, 5'8 - 5'9. naturally bigger than average build, fairly low on body fat <dont know %>... when i sit down i have a little bit of blubber on my gut, but not much and would be considered skinny if it werent for my natural husky build.

No offense but that doesn't look like you're going to progress much using an A,B,C style or whatever switch every week/month or so. It doesn't matter if you squat 2 days apart or benchpress 3 days apart, as long as your muscles get enough nutrients and rest, they will recover for the next workout. Since you mentioned you started lifting, you'd probably be able to handle a linear progression type workout like mentioned above. You'll be increasing weight steadily every workout, with all the main lifts. It'll train you to get good at the most important lifts, before moving on to specific intermediate training. Read the stickies if you want to learn more about it.

what are your goals?

 

[ceo]

I am sure some people might help you, however after your first thread where you called people a number of names and kicked off a bit, I would not expect it to happen fast.

If you want to get big, I wouldn't be lifting 5 times a week, I would drop back to two or three times a week, doing a full bodyworkout, high intensity. One exercise per body part, back to basics, old school, compounds.

Do the same routine until you adapt (could be anywhere from 6-12 workouts) or you notice you are not making gains, so keep a training/weight/measurements diary.

I would recommend anything by Stuart McRoberts, he also has a great guide to proper form for weight training, or search the stickies or this forum for a bit more info.

No cardio.

solid advice! Everything said. Go with a 3 days/wk lifting schedule. Try the 5x5. Read the stickie and you'll get all the info you need about the program. Follow the madcow template and use the excel spreadsheet(s). Follow that to a T!!!

Oh, and 150 grams of protein/day???? You aren't goign to grow off that! You need to take in 2 grams per pound of bodyweight/day. So get that up to 370 grams STAT! High protein, moderate fat and carbs. Meals should be Protein/Fat, and Protein/Carbs. Protein is #1, everything else is filler. Carbs for energy and simple carbs with protein immediately after w/o - no fats then. Don't worry about counting calories so much as counting grams of protein. Need to add cals to gain weight? Add 2 tblsp. olive oil to a protein shake (no carbs!!!), that you would take sometime in the day. Shit, I wish 370 grams was all I had to eat/day! Of course as you get heavier, your protein needs will increase (2grams/lb. - remember!).

Oh, and stretch the shit out of your muscles right after you work them. Example - you do your bench press final set, you immediately stretch pecs to the point of pain and hold that for 45-60 sec. Do that to each muscle group right after your last set for that muscle.

Do all of what tatyana and I are telling you and in 8-12 weeks of BUSTING YOUR ASS...and IMPROVING YOUR LIFTS EVERY WEEK (keep a logbook)...tell us how much difference it made!

I see 10 lbs. easy (if you do what we said).

 

[Elementality]

So you fellas dont think i should do a kinda " A B C" style? Seem to have trouble pushing the weight up on my bench, kind of just sits there. I'll try upping the protein, but i've read elsewhere and talked to some heads and they said to change it up and attack my chest at different angles to break a plateau on my bench press.

also, could someone explain to me a 5x5 program in a little more detail? thanks for responses

 

[mad dipz]

So you fellas dont think i should do a kinda " A B C" style? Seem to have trouble pushing the weight up on my bench, kind of just sits there. I'll try upping the protein, but i've read elsewhere and talked to some heads and they said to change it up and attack my chest at different angles to break a plateau on my bench press.

also, could someone explain to me a 5x5 program in a little more detail? thanks for responses

you're "heads" don't know what they're talking about. The chest is one muscle, attacking it at different angles isn't going to get you past any plateau no matter how many different exercises you do. Your problem is you're not giving your chest the stress and adaptation it needs to increase in strength and mass, which means focusing on all the main compound lifts.



Read the Rippetoe beginner's guide. Do lots of squats, deadlift heavy, perhaps do a backoff period with your bench and reramp, and you'll start increasing gains normally.

 

[Elementality]

you're "heads" don't know what they're talking about. The chest is one muscle, attacking it at different angles isn't going to get you past any plateau no matter how many different exercises you do. Your problem is you're not giving your chest the stress and adaptation it needs to increase in strength and mass, which means focusing on all the main compound lifts.



Read the Rippetoe beginner's guide. Do lots of squats, deadlift heavy, perhaps do a backoff period with your bench and reramp, and you'll start increasing gains normally.

thanks for the link man, very informative..if anyone else in the same newb situation as me might wanna check out this link, quite helpful

 

[Elementality]

quick question. This linear progression only suggests doing bench/squats/powercleans/deadlifts/presses... no where in the reading does it talk about isolation exercises. No tricep pulldowns, no skullcrushers, bar dips, lat pull downs, rows etc. It also never talks about working the biceps at all. Also, it reccomends on a M W F schedule to do squats everytime. isn't that kind of overkill with the squats or can they be worked out that much without injury or excessive fatigue? i know if i did squats on monday with heavy weight i'd still be soar on wednesday, and if i did it on wednesday AND monday i definitley would be soar on friday.

overall, seems like these exercises totally ignore isolation exercises. So for example, if you're trying to increase bench press are you better off doing ONLY squats/dead lifts/powercleans/flat/incline bench? or are you better off doing a variation of cycling of things like flat bench, dumbell benching/pressing, cable crosses for chest, tricep pulldowns, skullcrushers etc. on addition to squats/deads/powercleans

 

[Tatyana]

quick question. This linear progression only suggests doing bench/squats/powercleans/deadlifts/presses... no where in the reading does it talk about isolation exercises. No tricep pulldowns, no skullcrushers, bar dips, lat pull downs, rows etc. It also never talks about working the biceps at all. Also, it reccomends on a M W F schedule to do squats everytime. isn't that kind of overkill with the squats or can they be worked out that much without injury or excessive fatigue? i know if i did squats on monday with heavy weight i'd still be soar on wednesday, and if i did it on wednesday AND monday i definitley would be soar on friday.

overall, seems like these exercises totally ignore isolation exercises. So for example, if you're trying to increase bench press are you better off doing ONLY squats/dead lifts/powercleans/flat/incline bench? or are you better off doing a variation of cycling of things like flat bench, dumbell benching/pressing, cable crosses for chest, tricep pulldowns, skullcrushers etc. on addition to squats/deads/powercleans

You don't need isolation exercise to begin with if you are building mass.

I rarely train my arms and they are really BIG for a nattie girl (actually bigger than some of the girlies on gear).

Triceps get worked during chest

Biceps get worked during back

Shoulders will work both.

So for example in a back to basics training

Dips - chest and biceps mostly worked

Pull ups - back lats and biceps

Sometimes I see guys in the gym and think, he looks good, big arms.

At closer inspection, that is ALL they have, big arms.

Your arms will grow as they are being used to push and pull all that weight with high intensity training.

I think that the only really essential isolation exercise is leg extensions, as this is the only exercise that ONLY hits the quads. This is also only necessary if your quads are lagging, and in most people's case, it is the hamstrings that are the weaker of the leg muscles.

 

[mad dipz]

I agree. the reason it doesn't mention any isolations is because they will be worked with all the heavy pulling, pushing, etc. They will grow along with the rest of your body. But if you want to, you can add on pullups and dips if you want to work your arms more. Do these after your main lifts so there's no interference. I do pullups after one workout session and dips on a different day, rotating every session.

if you're new to squats, since I assume you are when you stated you just started working out, it's perfectly fine to do them three days a week. Add weight to them every workout, but be careful not to add too much and be greedy. I started out adding 10 pounds every workout for a couple weeks and then when I felt it getting heavier, dropped it to adding 5 lbs, and so on. The key is to increase gains every workout, no matter how little. There's alot more info between the lines, but once you reach your natural peak (including the rest of your lifts) at the novice level, you'll no longer be able to increase every workout, and you'll be able to then move on to the intermediate "5x5" variation, increasing lifts every week.

 

[ceo]

I agree. the reason it doesn't mention any isolations is because they will be worked with all the heavy pulling, pushing, etc. They will grow along with the rest of your body. But if you want to, you can add on pullups and dips if you want to work your arms more. Do these after your main lifts so there's no interference. I do pullups after one workout session and dips on a different day, rotating every session.

if you're new to squats, since I assume you are when you stated you just started working out, it's perfectly fine to do them three days a week. Add weight to them every workout, but be careful not to add too much and be greedy. I started out adding 10 pounds every workout for a couple weeks and then when I felt it getting heavier, dropped it to adding 5 lbs, and so on. The key is to increase gains every workout, no matter how little. There's alot more info between the lines, but once you reach your natural peak (including the rest of your lifts) at the novice level, you'll no longer be able to increase every workout, and you'll be able to then move on to the intermediate "5x5" variation, increasing lifts every week.

yep. Elementality, just do as the 5x5 workout by madcow says. EXACTLY as it says. Don't fuggin worry about isolation bullshit for now. Just follow the plan and eat like a horse...you'll grow. You're not ready to be worrying about your "biceps peak" just yet.

 

[Elementality]

sounds good. One question though, im a little confused here because i was reading the 5x5 and it said to do 5 sets of the same weight, but then I came to this paragraph <in quotations

"Ramping Weights:

This is basically increasing your weight set to set like warming up. If your top set of 5 is 315, you might go 135, 185, 225, 275, and then 315 all for 5 reps. There are several reasons for this, you are warming up, getting a lot of practice and really groove the coordination of the lifts, and contributing to workload without raising it so high that fatigue overcomes you and you overtrain. If you do 315 for all 5 sets, workload is a lot higher and doing that a couple of times a week ensures that you won't last long on this program.

Typically jumps can be somewhere between 10-15% per set based on your top set (or 12.5% and round up or down). An easy way to figure this is to find out what 10% and 15% are for your top set and then track backwards into the other sets using the variance to round or help it make sense.

Your top set is 100lbs

10% is 10lbs and 15% is 15lbs

Your 5th set is 100x5, 4th is 90x5, 3rd is 80x5, 2nd is 70x5, and 1st is 60x5

These are the minimum jumps of 10%, the math doesn't always look this neat but using 12.5% isn't as intuitively easy to see for explaining this.

Make sure this makes sense and you aren't so strong as to make the jumps ridiculous at 10-15%. But keep in mind, going 200, 205, 210, 215, and 220 is a lot closer to 220 for 5x5 and that's too much on this kind of frequency, it will fatigue you a lot faster (i.e. prevent you from progressing) and hurt your ability to get as much as possible with your top set."

So my question is, when i get ready to dead lift, squat or bench should i do a few warm ups then do my 5 rep max sets 5 times? or should i include my warm ups as part of my 5 sets?

 

[Elementality]

nevermind, i got it all figured out. thanks for the help, i ll let you know how it worked out in a month to two months

 

[ceo]

nevermind, i got it all figured out. thanks for the help, i ll let you know how it worked out in a month to two months

hopefully you found the right answer. If you just go to madcow's site and download the excel spreadsheet for the beginner 5x5 program, you can plug in your weights and it will tell you exactly how much to do on each of the 5 sets. It really doesn't get any simpler.