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HELP ME KEEP KID OFF STEROIDS!!! Hardgainer Diet Help NEEDED!!!

hawaii50

hawaii50

New member
Ok, i'm a "mentor" to this kid i know.. he's actually my little brothers friend.. so i became his big brother so to speak. He's got to be the hardestgainer i know of.. this kid is 5'5" @ 120# :worried: His metabolism is SOO fast he literally sits @ 5-6% BF all the time. He's tried taking in 5000-6000 calories a day (weightgainer shakes) and i swear he did not gain a single pound. NOTHING!!! :confused: He wants to get bigger soo bad.. and he busts his ass too.. and nothing. Tried creatine too, up to 15g a day.. nothing.. i'm just in awe! He's not overtraining.. right now i have him doing heavy sets, low reps 6-8, 1 bodypart a day. Its not his training... i KNOW its his diet.

Heres the BIG problem: This kid is 17, and all the other guys (16-18) are getting big, cuz they're dumbasses and using roids. I personally am not against them, if you're over 23-25, and/or need HRT, and MATURE. I don't use them, and probably never will.. cuz i'm an EASYgainer.. in muscle AND FAT... and i can't lose fat for anything! lol ANYWAYS, enough about me... I have told him SO many times that he NEEDS to get FAT so he can gain some muscle.. he has no aversion to this.. problem is he can't gain any...

I have til Sunday to come up w/ something.. he's been busting his ass for 7 months w/ literally nothing to show for it.. his g/f probably has bigger arms than he does! The kid has heart. He even bought that stupid "hardgainer diet" plan BS off the net for $100 or so... total waste IMO!

Anyways i have til sunday to give him a diet plan (i already have the lifting plan for him), that will show him a freakin result in 2 weeks or he's gonna go out and get some juice! :worried: I made a deal w/ him to try out my plan.. AND YES, i told him he won't keep his gains.. and none of his friends will (they said "$@!% PCT!", IDIOTS!!!). I explained his body can't handle being big so quick.. and i doubt he would even gain cuz he can't eat enough to not be ina deficit.

SOO, i need help quick.. i'm thinking 10,000/day calories.. a lot from Oil.. cuz his stomach can't handle 10,000 cals of FOOD.. idk anyone that could.

Anyways, i need help.. just straight help. Seriously, anything less than 10,000 i guarantee he won't gain an ounce. BTW, this actually isn't just going to be just for him.. i'm doing this also to show all his other little friends that they don't need juice! *note: remember, i'm only against kids using it.. so you don't need to flame now :p * If i can get him some results, they might actually listen... they think all of us 'larger than average' guys all juice.. but its just the mentality around where i'm from: LAZY!

Anyways, i'm talking to damn much... I want 10,000 calories or more.. and i just need to know the best way to get it.

Won't you help? Its for the children! ;) ;) ;)
 
Eat 10 cheese steaks and 10 hoagies per day and 5 big macs this kid will grow. Oh yea and a gallon of milk and a jar of peanut butter. and a dozen eggs.
 
muscelove said:
Eat 10 cheese steaks and 10 hoagies per day and 5 big macs this kid will grow. Oh yea and a gallon of milk and a jar of peanut butter. and a dozen eggs.
Click to expand...

tried that... seriously though, he's already tried the "eat as much as possible, even if its crap twinkies" diet. I need a REAL diet plan.. one that won't cost a fortune either.
 
shit man. a bunch of those cals will need to come from the PWO shake, like 100grs carbs and 50 grs protein (that is already about 80% over what a guy his size woudl need).

Lots of Peanut butter, Starchy carbs, ditch fibrous carbs (too filling)...

itwill have to be a bunch of shakes, since he can't probably handle real food in those amounts (hell, I could not)

I am concerned about having him loaded with junk food, though
 
pintoca said:
shit man. a bunch of those cals will need to come from the PWO shake, like 100grs carbs and 50 grs protein (that is already about 80% over what a guy his size woudl need).

Lots of Peanut butter, Starchy carbs, ditch fibrous carbs (too filling)...

itwill have to be a bunch of shakes, since he can't probably handle real food in those amounts (hell, I could not)

I am concerned about having him loaded with junk food, though
Click to expand...

no. the junk food thing was a long time ago.. some idiot told him that!

the protein thing.. yeah, i know. I'm saying maybe MCT oil? i read about some plan a while ago that utilized that.. like adding a few thousand w/ just dietary fats or something. I don't wanna flood him w/ protein, cuz thats just a waste. Anyone got any serious ideas?
 
serioulsy not junk food but fatty food with carbs like hamburgers and not mcdonalds. Get the ground meet and use regualr buns. Like pintoca said no fiber it will fill him up. And if you live somewher ewere they sell cheese steaks im near philly so they are sold everywhere here. They have lots of pro fat and carbs and tase great. You can make your own just get beef sliced real thin like paper this so u can see through it. Fry it in a little olive oil and butter rip it apart and put cheese. Serve on a roll...mmmmmmgood.
 
What about something like this (assuming he trains in the afternoon):

8am: Large serving (two - three bowls) of starchy carbs (such as your commercially packaged cereal) in full cream milk with 5 scrambled eggs and orange juice.

10.30: 1 x Home-made chicken, turkey, fish or beef burger.

1pm: 2 x Home-made chicken, turkey, fish or beef burgers

3.30: 1 x Home-made chicken, turkey, fish or beef burger.

(4.30 - 5.30 - training)

5:30: 1 weight gainer shake in water (50g protein and 100g carbs)

6:30: Spaghetti bolognaise with sauce until full.

9pm: 1 weight gainer shake in 12oz of full cream milk.


Also, get him to make another weight gainer shake before bed to leave beside his bedside for when he wakes up during the middle of the night to piss, and get him to fit in at least 5 TBSPs of peanut butter/peanuts or flax oil througout the day.


A fairly cheap diet that's easy to follow with LOTS of calories. Surely he would grow on this?
 
Not a big fan of the whole "I have til Sunday or he's gonna do roids" mentality. I think the first step you need to take, as his mentor, is to sit him down and talk to him about chilling out, being patient and not being stupid. Cause that seems like the biggest issue right now.

That being said, how is his training? I know you mentioned over training - maybe that is hurting him. As far as food, eat, eat and eat more. Eat a ton of "good" carbs - a good bulk before and after training. Have him wake up in the middle of the night and chug a shake.
 
I find it hard to believe that he could have eaten 6000 calories a day and did not gain weight. For how long was he eating these 6000 calories? Heavy whipping cream has like 1200 calories for one 12 oz carton. He could try mixing this with protein powder and splenda if it wasn't sweet enought. (or sugar in this case actually) A few cartons a day plus his regular meals should "bulk" him up. But,with all that fat and calories he's probably better off using steroids.
 
KillahBee said:
Not a big fan of the whole "I have til Sunday or he's gonna do roids" mentality. I think the first step you need to take, as his mentor, is to sit him down and talk to him about chilling out, being patient and not being stupid. Cause that seems like the biggest issue right now.

That being said, how is his training? I know you mentioned over training - maybe that is hurting him. As far as food, eat, eat and eat more. Eat a ton of "good" carbs - a good bulk before and after training. Have him wake up in the middle of the night and chug a shake.
Click to expand...

i wouldn't say that unless it was true.. the problem IS that i've been "sitting him down" for 7 months and explaining that he doesn't need them. if i were in his boat.. i'd prolly do the same exact thing.. but thats if i were him...

and alex: i've had him on a 6000 calorie diet for 2 months before.. his metabolism is just soo freakin fast.. and couple that w/ lifting.. he probably burns 8000 or more.. hell i can't figure it out! and NO steroids would not help him anyways.. he can't gain any fat... i'm just trying to be a good "big brother" and keep him from ****ing himself up before he's done growing.. secondly it'd be awaste of money.

ANYWAYS, i worked up a diet i'm gonna give him. And if it doesn't have any results... then he needs to goto a specialist dr. and see what the hell is up?!

hawaii
 
I had a similar problem at that age...

Typical days diet (long ago when protein shakes were used only by the pro's):

2 Large cheese Pizza (lunch)
2 16-24 oz steaks (dinner)
3 Large Bowls Cereal & French toast (breakfast)
Several Liters of Mt. Dew (throughout day)
1 package mac & cheese (afternoon snack)
1/2 loaf of bread (w/dinner)
1/2 pack cookies 1/2-1 gal whole milk (night snack)

I pretty much bankrupted myself and parents on food, but still no gain (98-105 lbs). It wasn't until I hit 21 that it shifted... then I gained EZ (too EZ).

I think some of it is just individual and his bod chemistry may need to mature (he is only 17 for gods sake).

The only other thing I can suggest STRONGLY is that you make sure he takes a couple rest days a week (plenty of sleep and no real activity). That means no pick-up basketball gains, no bicycling, no swimming, etc. That was one of my problems, at 17 there is a tendancy to keep going and going and going like an energizer bunny, and I seldom if ever took rest days. When I hit 21, I was forced to be more sedentary and thats when the gains came.
 
|D_J^B_J| said:
What about something like this (assuming he trains in the afternoon):

8am: Large serving (two - three bowls) of starchy carbs (such as your commercially packaged cereal) in full cream milk with 5 scrambled eggs and orange juice.

10.30: 1 x Home-made chicken, turkey, fish or beef burger.

1pm: 2 x Home-made chicken, turkey, fish or beef burgers

3.30: 1 x Home-made chicken, turkey, fish or beef burger.

(4.30 - 5.30 - training)

5:30: 1 weight gainer shake in water (50g protein and 100g carbs)

6:30: Spaghetti bolognaise with sauce until full.

9pm: 1 weight gainer shake in 12oz of full cream milk.


Also, get him to make another weight gainer shake before bed to leave beside his bedside for when he wakes up during the middle of the night to piss, and get him to fit in at least 5 TBSPs of peanut butter/peanuts or flax oil througout the day.


A fairly cheap diet that's easy to follow with LOTS of calories. Surely he would grow on this?
Click to expand...


Anybody paid attention to this? this sounds like a hell of a good suggestion. Damn, It sounds tasty too!!! :chomp:

K for putting this one together man
 
If he eats 6000 calories a day and does not gain weight he is just fucked and not cut our for bodybuilding.

Juice won't make any difference at this point.

This leads me to one of two conclusions:
a) You are bullshitting us
b) This individual has a serious medical condition he has not yet been diagnosed with
 
I used to have this problem too I started wrestling at age 4 and continued to wrestle until i was 21. I was constantly starving myself thoughout the years trying to make a low weight class. So when i tried to gain weight it was almost impossible because i was used to eating like 2 small meals a day. and my metabolism was super fast. When i turned 22 i started gaining like crazy. I think he just needs to wait a few years for his metabolism to slow down and then he will gain. ;)
 
10000 calories? Does this kid have alife or is he just going to eat all day. I was exactly like this kid. I ate all the time and nothing. The more I ate the more I would speed up my metabolism. Im 6"2" and 207 pounds so Im still skinny. Unfortunately this kids only option might be gear because of his genetics. There isnt a worse feeling than being a skinny teenager. I didnt juice until I was 23 but this kid seems like he is already set on juicing. Just make sure he does a safer cycle such as 300 mgs of deca a week and maybe 20 mgs of dbol a day and he will put on 15-20 pounds. The only thing is to make sure he has good gear. The 10,000 calories a day will be worse on his body than gear and 3500 calories.
 
lilpumper said:
hey do you remember what the liquid amino acid is called?
Click to expand...
just go to g.n.c and ask they will know what to give you thare is a few defferant tipes I think g.n.c has thare own brand it is in a small blake contaner its been around fore a while I read some whare that large amounts of amino can work allmost as good as A.S fore people that cant gan whate
 
lilpumper said:
I used to have this problem too I started wrestling at age 4 and continued to wrestle until i was 21. I was constantly starving myself thoughout the years trying to make a low weight class. So when i tried to gain weight it was almost impossible because i was used to eating like 2 small meals a day. and my metabolism was super fast. When i turned 22 i started gaining like crazy. I think he just needs to wait a few years for his metabolism to slow down and then he will gain. ;)
Click to expand...

Yes, he's a wrestler! And i think that all those bad dieting habits and killing himself has messed up his metabolism BAD! or sped it up i should say.. its messed up.

anyways, i have him on 9,000 calories/day. In 2 weeks if he hasn't gained anythign i'm sending him to the dr.
 
lilpumper said:
hey do you remember what the liquid amino acid is called?
Click to expand...
itis called liguid proten.it has 18g of protean per table spoon.just have him eat a tun of it.he can drink it all day and never get full.
 
maybe he should take up distance running. I see those african runners in the olympics, they look to be 100 lbs and lap everybody else.
 
needtogetas said:
just go to g.n.c and ask they will know what to give you thare is a few defferant tipes I think g.n.c has thare own brand it is in a small blake contaner its been around fore a while I read some whare that large amounts of amino can work allmost as good as A.S fore people that cant gan whate
Click to expand...
i looked it up.. its only like 15-70 calories or something. i didn't find anything called liquid amino.
 
psychedout said:
If he eats 6000 calories a day and does not gain weight he is just fucked and not cut our for bodybuilding.

Juice won't make any difference at this point.

This leads me to one of two conclusions:
a) You are bullshitting us
b) This individual has a serious medical condition he has not yet been diagnosed with
Click to expand...
i agree with this post.


get this kid to a DR. ASAP, cause he could die.
 
Buy the book SUPER SQUATS and give it to him......if that doesn't make him grow, well, buy him a gun!
 
First off, if he is eating frequently have him stop.... Have him eat two big meals a day and work it up to 3. That way his metabolism will slow down a bit. When your body knows you are going to eat 6 meals a day it kicks up the fat burn to keep up. If he eats larger meals in less frequency his body will naturally slow down.


Also, tell him to sleep, a few extra hours a day. I know that kids like to stay up late and all but, rest is a necessity.

Beleive me. I know exactly what he is going through first hand.

I'm 5'11" and used to weigh in at 145lbs... Horrible wieght. I'm now 5'11" 185 lbs. at about 14%. BF.

No roids involved.

I went to jail, which cut my meals back to 3 five days a week, and 2 meals on Sundays and Saturdays.

Only 45 minutes on weights, but I got alot of sleep.

I know a few people that were in there that were as follows.

Dobek - 135lbs when he came in, and 175, when I got out 3 months later.
Valez - 145lbs when he came in, 230 when I left 8 months later.

And these guys were not bulky. Same bodyfat as when they started practically.

Maybe it was Genetics, but I've always had crappy genes and it worked for me.


So to sum it up

Less meals, but just as much food.
More sleep..
 
SublimeZM said:
i agree with this post.


get this kid to a DR. ASAP, cause he could die.
Click to expand...

actually, i made him goto the dr. just yesterday w/ consent of his parents.. of course.. he has some $#%&ed up liver enzyme problem?! not sure if it is affecting his ability to grow muscle.. i asked about it, and the dr. said he needs to goto a "muscle specialist."

As far as the diet goes, i'll summarize some key points in it. its pretty oldschool, high carb, high fat, and moderate protein. i just want him to get some damn fat on his body. i hope his stomach stretches out, cuz this is more food than i could eat.. but he's determined.

tons of steak, hamburger, potatoes, bread, oatmeal <-- of coure :p just a couple protein shakes a day, just so he can mix in his fats (hempseed oil). Creatine, for alil water retention strength <-- boost the confidence. I'm also having him put a cup of sugar in each creatine drink he makes. <-- insulin effect, and also its more calories.

might not be exactly the best route, but hell, i'm runnin' out of ideas.. the kids so small that i just had to give him useless calories..

i'm even considering him not even lifting for a couple weeks just so he doesn't burn anything off.

btw, the kid is 15, 5'0" and 120#.. so he's NOT juicing.. and i told everyone he knows that does, that if they try and get him some.. i'll deal w/ them personally. :evil:
 
ok got an idea...send him to jail....it has worked for everyone i know.....the skinniest kid i knew did 6 months and came out alot bigger that when he went it. Its been 2 years now and he still has the weight
 
muscelove said:
ok got an idea...send him to jail....it has worked for everyone i know.....the skinniest kid i knew did 6 months and came out alot bigger that when he went it. Its been 2 years now and he still has the weight
Click to expand...
actually thats pretty funny.. his dad is a cop. lol
 
yeah get him to a doctor and get him tested for everything bloodwork etc

i had a friend who was a skinny as fuck probably like the kid you talking about he was 150 lbs 5'10'' in 9th grade until he went to the dr and he found out he had diabetes that insulin made him get crazy big he weighed 200lbs by our senior year in high school hes about 220-230 right now and muscular
 
I agree with the big 2 meal plan.. or maybe even 1
and feed him some downers.. through out the day ;) j/k

but sounds like the has a hyper active thyroid.. maybe they can hook him up with some good drugs.. Also but him on the Bill Starr 5x5
 
just the typical foods should do the trick, when you lift+good diet you get results, if you're not genetically gifted try golf or something? I used ara-test250 at age 17/18. I gained 60 pounds from it. Since my heart rate is high/ blood pressure is high, and I really fused my growth plates too soon, i should talk to this kid, i do seminars at highschools for freshman where i live because of what happened.


Oh i just read he's a wrestler, same here, i had same problem.... wreslters NEVER sleep, you can't always worried...

1) choclate 2%/whole milk at night before bed...10-12 hours of sleep a must

this will slow his metabolism down, way down, it just takes time, creatine and 1 gallon of water

Juice shouldn't be used unless competing!
 
Oh yeah....Is he single?

MAN ONCE YOU GET MARRIED YOU GET FAT, TELL HIM TO FIND A WOMAN AND TO SETTLE DOWN, THEN THE WEIGHT PACKS ON FROM STRESS....LMFAO
 
omg i know exactly how this kid feels i was the same way i weighed 125# at 17 and im 5'8" what put some weight on me was the army! but i really didnt start putting on the weight until i hit 30 yrs old. now i weigh 185 i gained 30lbs over the last 4 yrs. and still growing. its the metabolism no matter what i ate i couldnt gain no biggie he just needs to wait til it slows down a bit i dont think theres anything he can do cuz i have been there and done that.
 
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