Help for my girl

[T Bone]

I'm finding out that my weakness is giving diet and trainging advice to a woman. I have never had a problem losing weight myself. All i have really only focused on is bulking. With that said, we need some critique on her rutien.

Stats:
23yrs old
5'6"
196lbs
BF??

2 weeks into this...

Diet: (roughly)
1200 to 1500 cals
150 to 175 grs protien
90 to 120 grs carbs
40 to 60 grs fat

Five meals a day. 2 myoplex lites and 3 small meals. Taking Hydroxycut.

55 minutes of Tea Bo (5 days/wk) mon, tues, wed, fri and sat mornings on an empty stomach. 7am. Folowed by her first MRP.

Weights five days. Monday thru friday in the evenings. One body part per day. Cardio is skiped on thursday mornings because wednessday is leg day. Sunday is off day for everthing.

She grew up very athletic, playing every sport. Since high school, she has not done much and has put on the extra weight. Judging by her muscle mass, strength and frame, i feel 150lbs would be a good weight for her. She is not as big as 196lbs @ 5'6" sounds. Shes about a size 16. Alot of muscle underneath.

Goals are to loose fat and build muscle. Not going for the skinny wimpy girl look. She's not looking at the scale. She looking in the mirror and taking measurements.

Thanks for your help and it's good to be back at Elite again. She will be checking with my log in and possibly replying.


T Bone

 

[2Shy]

Hi, T Bone. IMO she won't be getting enough calories. Yes, she'll achieve an initial weight loss, but it won't all be fat. Also, going too low in calories might shock her body into starvation mode. I know that I stall out if I go too low on calories myself.

You might check out Dr. Squat's article here: http://www.drsquat.com/index.cfm?action=viewarticle&articleID=12

Elite's Mr. X recommends 12 X Body Weight for BMR. For a slow and steady weight loss (the best kind) 500 calories under that should work. That's roughly a pound a week. You might occasionally drop to 1000 calories below that number. I generally use the 500-1000 calories under BMR as my goal range.

I think a 50/25/25 diet is a good nutrient split. I've had success on higher protein diets, but some people find them difficult to follow.

That seems like a lot of cardio to me. Since you mention leg day, I take it she will be lifting as well?

 

[wateengedoe2]

I agree with 2Shy: not enough cals and too much cardio .. Also 5x/week lifting is quite much, isn't it? Now I'm on a cutting diet of about 500 kcal less than my body needs and I lift 4x a week, cardio about 2 to 3x on empty stomac in the mornings. Got good results with that, but then .. my metabolism must have been very fast from the beginning because I came from a bulking diet.

 

[muscle_geek]

I have to disagree with everyone here. If she was really serious about losing weight then I would drop the cals below 1000 and pretty much lose the carbs completely (atkins style). I would keep the metabolism up by taking flax seed oil. Lifting five times a week is good and every day that she lifts she should also be doing cardio. I would try to work up to 45 minutes of cardio. This might sound tough, but if she's really motivated the body would have no choice but to shed fat quickly with this routine.

 

[scruples]

I have to disagree with everyone here. If she was really serious about losing weight then I would drop the cals below 1000 and pretty much lose the carbs completely (atkins style). I would keep the metabolism up by taking flax seed oil. Lifting five times a week is good and every day that she lifts she should also be doing cardio. I would try to work up to 45 minutes of cardio. This might sound tough, but if she's really motivated the body would have no choice but to shed fat quickly with this routine.

horrible advice

please do not listen to this

 

[BrickGirl]

I have to disagree with everyone here. If she was really serious about losing weight then I would drop the cals below 1000 and pretty much lose the carbs completely (atkins style). I would keep the metabolism up by taking flax seed oil. Lifting five times a week is good and every day that she lifts she should also be doing cardio. I would try to work up to 45 minutes of cardio. This might sound tough, but if she's really motivated the body would have no choice but to shed fat quickly with this routine.

That is really bad advice.

 

[muscle_geek]

I don't think its terrible advice. I'm reporting from the results I have seen from a couple of women that have done something like this. It might be completly anecdotal and not scientific, but it was true. I'm not trying to give bad advice, but you have to create a caloric deficit while maintaining a good metabolism. The bigger the deficit the better as long as you can maintain your metabolism. My idea might not be to your liking. Its very aggressive and involves pain and sacrifice. I was basically cruising the women's board to find powerlifting info for a girl I know. I thought I would give my two cents. I guess we're not allowed to do that here.

 

[slinky]

geek: what you're looking for here is a typical "workout designed for a girl" - right?

Well, for one, there is no such thing. Training/nutrition is based on individual needs.

You will be advising for her to eat too few calories and training so much that she will certainly lose LBM. And that's not good. First of all, she'll need added LBM to maintain a healthy metabolism. Which will enable her to lose BF.

Let me clarify: This gal will be performing 5-days a week of Tae Bo, 5-days a week of weights, up to 45-minutes of cardio a day. And this ain't "overkill"? But it is: no matter the gender. And to top it off, you want her to go on a below maintenance diet? Again, she will certainly go into a catabolising mode - in other words: she'll lose LBM.

While you suggest her goal is to gain LBM. Also, let me say something else: you seem to be combining two goals into one: gaining LBM and losing BF. Ya can't do one and the other at the same time. Ya gotta pick one goal, strive for it first and THEN achieve the other.

To gain LBM, she'll need recovery. We ALL require recovery. And a healthy caloric intake. To lose BF, she can go into a caloric deficit, but also she needs to maintain the LBM she's got. If she insists on the Tae Bo, then keep doin' it, but don't add anymore cardio. And weight train 3-days a week or even just two.

Just my two cents - or three.

 

[manny78]

5'6" , 196 lbs. You might want to consider some qualified nutritionist. Dropping 60 lbs wont happen in a week, not even in a month. It's a question of will over everything. Do you have any insurance ? I know someone who got his wife a gym membership, PT and nutritionist all paid.

Geek: I dont think T-Bone requested for an AUschwitz type diet.

 

[MsBeverlyHills]

I agree w/Manny & just wondering if this is your girlfriend or SO??? cuase your giving her ALOT-- prob too much-- five days weight training/ five days cardio/ hydroxycut/ MRPs...

if you want her to succeed... pick just 2 things & see how she does-- your throwing too much at someone new to training & dieting... imo.

 

[muscle_geek]

I agree with what you're saying. I wasn't trying to say that what I suggested would work for everyone nor is the best way to train. The women that I reported having done this were obese. The training was probably not optimal, but my way taught them was sacrifice and intensity. Not all, but many beginners or overweight people completely understand that concept. The approach was basically built upon the 3-week habit forming concept. If they could sacrifice calories and give everything to the gym for that time period, then getting into a program that is more reasonable seems easy and they stick with it. I've seen too many overweight people do the tried and true low and slow program only to have relapses and begin again. This is my experience, but I guess my eyes deceive me in what I've seen. Or I just enjoy lying and giving people advice that will hurt them.

I appreciate your post Slinky. I think a reasonable debate that reflects different approaches adds to a post. Rather than a mod telling you to get off the board because you have a different way of doing things.

geek: what you're looking for here is a typical "workout designed for a girl" - right?

Well, for one, there is no such thing. Training/nutrition is based on individual needs.

You will be advising for her to eat too few calories and training so much that she will certainly lose LBM. And that's not good. First of all, she'll need added LBM to maintain a healthy metabolism. Which will enable her to lose BF.

Let me clarify: This gal will be performing 5-days a week of Tae Bo, 5-days a week of weights, up to 45-minutes of cardio a day. And this ain't "overkill"? But it is: no matter the gender. And to top it off, you want her to go on a below maintenance diet? Again, she will certainly go into a catabolising mode - in other words: she'll lose LBM.

While you suggest her goal is to gain LBM. Also, let me say something else: you seem to be combining two goals into one: gaining LBM and losing BF. Ya can't do one and the other at the same time. Ya gotta pick one goal, strive for it first and THEN achieve the other.

To gain LBM, she'll need recovery. We ALL require recovery. And a healthy caloric intake. To lose BF, she can go into a caloric deficit, but also she needs to maintain the LBM she's got. If she insists on the Tae Bo, then keep doin' it, but don't add anymore cardio. And weight train 3-days a week or even just two.

Just my two cents - or three.

 

[spatts]

There's a difference between losing weight and losing fat. Anyone can lose weight, to lose fat, while retaining the most muscle, you have to do something a little smarter.

Here's what worked for me:

Weights alternating heavy one week and moderate the next, for example:

Monday: legs
Tusday: back and rear delt
Wednesday: off
Thursday: Chest and tri's
Friday: shoulders and bis
Saturday: abs

On, for example Thursday, do shoulders light and bis heavy (start with the heavy) and then the next week shoulders heavy and bi's light. Heavy being about 90% of max and light being about 60% of max.

Cardio 5-7 days a week max (start with 3 non-training days) first thing in the morning, empty stomach, OR AFTER WEIGHTS. Moderate intensity, moderate speed, longer duration: walk up hill at 15% grade, 2.5 mph, for 60 min...point being, keep the heart rate between 135-140. I added a second cardio session in the evenings, 20-30 min, and straight protein after that, but only if one session and a clean diet aren't cutting it. At least two of my weekly sessions were HIIT Sprints on an eliptical or track.

My cutting diet looked like this:

http://www.asylum-strength.com/spat-cutting.htm

You would have to alter the times by when you train, and cycle the carbs 3 days low (.5g/kg body weight) and 2 days high (2.0g/kg body weight), or high on training days and low on non training days. The diet in the link represents the 100g CHO median.

1Kg = 2.2046 lbs

 

[T Bone]

Things have gotten interesting around here

Thank you for all the resposes so far. Including geek, i know you'er just trying to help.

Too little cals was a concern of mine as well as over training.

However, i need to get a few things straight.

I would like to see her get around 1800 cals/day and cardio three days a week. This is why we are asking for advice.

wateengedoe2 ; I don't think 5x week is too much weight training. She splits her workouts into one bodypart a day. She only trains each bodypart once a week. Thank you, and 2Shy for the cal advice.

slinky Good point, it is an individual thing. No, her tae bo IS her cardio. No additional 45 min cardio. 55 min of cardio in the AM and about 45 min of weights in the evening with two off days for both. She doesn't feel fatigued. I disagree with one thing. You CAN gain LBM and loose fat at the same time. It's done all the time, in fact it's the goal of most programs. In fact, with the right diet and training, it happens pretty much automaticly when you gain LBM, you loose fat.

manny78 Are you kidding me!!! She is not that big. I never said she want's to loose 60 lbs in a week or a month. I never even said she needs to loose 60lbs. Seriously, if you saw her bone structure and her muscle, you might reconsider. We hardly need to get my insurance involved. She's no bigger than Jen BFL Chick was in her first pic before her program.

MsBeverlyHills I'm not giving her anything, she set most of this up her self. She is not new to training. She had gained weight the last few years after quiting sports. She was an athelete for 2/3 of her life. She works out as hard and often as she needs to feel like she is doing somehting. Albeit, it may be too much. This lifestyle is not much of a shock to her.

Once again, thank you to everyone who has responded so far.

T Bone

 

[T Bone]

Thank you Spatts. Your advice doesn't seem so far off from what she is doing as the others did.

As far as her weight routine, here is what she is doing.
Monday: Chest
Tuesday: Back
Wednesday: Quads and Hams
Thursday: Sholders and Calves
Friday: Arms
Saturday: off
Sunday: off

Like I said she spends about 45min on weights.

I would like to see this cardio routine for now.
Monday, Wednesday, Friday one hour cardio am, empty stomach.
Tuesday and Thursday ten min cardio am, empty stomach.

We will definatly look into your cutting diet.

Thanks again for your imput.

Warlobo, yes, this thread did take on a life of its own. Thank you

T Bone

 

[manny78]

Re: Things have gotten interesting around here

manny78 Are you kidding me!!! She is not that big. I never said she want's to loose 60 lbs in a week or a month. I never even said she needs to loose 60lbs. Seriously, if you saw her bone structure and her muscle, you might reconsider. We hardly need to get my insurance involved. She's no bigger than Jen BFL Chick was in her first pic before her program.

Well without a pic its hard to judge but you said not bigger than Jen BFL before ? Well that was big in my book. So what's your goal for her ? SHort term and long term.

 

[T Bone]

Re: Re: Things have gotten interesting around here

Well without a pic its hard to judge but you said not bigger than Jen BFL before ? Well that was big in my book. So what's your goal for her ? SHort term and long term.

It didn't stop you from judging before.

If she keeps most of the muscle, i don't want to see her loose much more than 40lbs long term.

Short term, 25lbs in three months. Very doable. IMO.

T Bone

 

[wateengedoe2]

Re: Things have gotten interesting around here

wateengedoe2 ; I don't think 5x week is too much weight training. She splits her workouts into one bodypart a day. She only trains each bodypart once a week. Thank you, and 2Shy for the cal advice.[/B]

Very good .. When she does each muscle group once a week, indeed it's not too much. But does she like lifting that much, does she really need it? Probably she would do well on a 3 or 4x/week split schedule too.

 

[T Bone]

She loves it! it's almost sick! We have to split it up that way just so she can lift something heavy every day. j/k She will be scary one day. No j/k

 

[JJFigure]

Get her on this board - she'll feel right at home!

 

[muscle_geek]

I agree lobo. I should have been more clear and this post is about helping someone and I strayed off path. Good luck for your girl T Bone.

Geek, why didn't you fully explain your position the first time? What you have stated is a very specific and detailed use of a drastic method for WEIGHT loss. And notice I said weight, not fat or muscle. In your later posts, I can see how this approach might be used and garner results. But as a general approach, it has very limited application at best - even you state a use of only three weeks (or so). Additionally, in this case, and as the question was originally posed, your approach would not be the best method for her to use period. Your first post is just bad advice and why it was “jumped” on with in minutes. And bad advice don’t get far on this Women’s board – especially from men. Not to mention you had to be looking for a bit of “controversy” with an opening statement of how you disagree with EVERYONE. (And then later say you mostly agree.) Why didn’t you combined your posts? It would have been an interesting view point, taken in a completely different light, and could have been a thread on it’s own. As it is, this thread has turn into “you and the defense of your position”. A thread in which we should have focused on to help HER.

 

[wateengedoe2]

She loves it! it's almost sick! We have to split it up that way just so she can lift something heavy every day. j/k She will be scary one day. No j/k

LOL, that sounds good! Indeed it's addictive, but I feel 4x/wk is still enough for me (and 2x/wk cardio, still 6 days in the gym...)

 

[T Bone]

Get her on this board - she'll feel right at home!

She will feel right at home. She will be on here soon, she's spending most of her time reading, learning and doing research.

Thanks girls and guys.

T Bone