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HELP-BB or powerlifting???

rgosit

New member
i previously posted this in the powerlifting discussuion but i got no replies.. so



im 17 and i play hs football. Ive been lifting since i was in 5th grade. i love lifting, ive always been more of a powerlifter because ive played sports mainly football..and i only cared about how strong and explosive i was. after the season if id ont play in college i dont kno what path to take. either way i kno im always gonna lift and eat rite. but should i stay with strength and power lifting routines like ive always done( bench squat deadlift powercleans, power press) or change over to isolating muscles.
i want to stay strong and fast incase i play a sport recreationally.
i was also thinking about getting into boxing or some kind of martial art for, fun or maybe to compete in the future..or to kno how to kick someones a** if i have to.
i want to get big and be strong and fast. so i would continue running (sprints jumping ETC) i like plometric training also
I kinda want to look good also, i dont want to look like a body builder though i dont ever want to be lower then like 10% bodyfat.


rite now im 5-7
about 180, i was at my heaviest about 196 before the seaon but lost weight with all the running. im at about 10-12 percentbdfat
i dont think i could ever get really skinny kno matter what i did anyway, i have a short torso and my stomach sticks out, its hard its not fat, but i dont ever think i could get the prototype beach boy six pack.

my best previous lift are
squat 485 X 5
my bench sucks- 205-3 i think is the most ive done
rack clean 205-210-5

i want to get BIG, could i gain alot of weight doing a workout like the power matrix??

i want to end up being like 200-210 with about the same bd fat

last football season i ended weighing like 155.

the workouts i have are:
power matrix
nebraska football program
maimi's football program-even though i dont kno the percentages
i could do hit programs
north carolinas football program
the olympic sprinters program
and a football program from DR.squat

and a question about the power matrix
can u do deadlifts one day and squats the next??or vice versa

so could u do like bench and squat monday and thursday
and deradlift on tues and fri.

i kno since i posted this in the powerlifting forum most of u will say powerlift.

but i kinda do want to be on a bulking cutting type split cause i dont want to b fat. but i was thinking about lifting for a year bbing then a year powerlifting\football type training and back and forth, but im not sure. would this b a good way to see what i like better????
ne help would b appreciated

does ne one kno about martial arts or boxing and training??

will bbing make more slow twitch muscle fibers and make me unathletic??

my diet is in check and i know how to lift, i just need to be pionted in the rite direction.

sorry i had to drop a novel.
 
You can do a mix of both. Use the heavy basic motions to keep strength up but add in some of the isolation exercises. You don't have to be completely one deminsional in your training for it to be effective. Also don't try and blindly follow someone elses program. Build up a program that you like, you can stick to, and works for you.

Cheers,
Scotsman
 
so i could b following the power matrix

doing the the 8-5-3-1-1-1 rep sceme for my bench squat and dead

and be doing 10-8-6 or 8-8-8 for other exercises

could this be a mass building power matrix\ bb werkout

flat bench 8-5-3-1-1-1
dips 3x failure
incline db bench 10-8-6
DB shoulder press 10-8-6
side db raises 10-10-10
fron raises 10-10-10

i dont understand the power matrix.. how can u bench, squat and deadlift heavy twice a week, and not do squat and dead lift on the same day or consecuitve days without hitting major muslce groups several times
 
You can do both. As for me, I asked the question and I found the solution: powerlifting in fall and bb in spring! I don't need to be fat to be a good powerlifter, just stay lean all year long!

LG
 
bro.....I think you should go with powerlifting for a little while, then maybe decide if you still want to do bodybuilding. I mean, think about it. Ronnie Coleman and alot of the other pro's started out as powerlifters then just switched. That's the way I'd go. It's really up to what you enjoy most......if you really enjoy both then by all means....do both. Either way, good luck!!!
 
hmmm.that was ALOT of text so i didnt read it all carefully, but my guess is that you like powerlifting better, no? so in your case, id stick with that
 
rgosit-
Bodybuilding involves a lot of power movements I think.. I mean I always do heavy deads, hang cleans, power cleans, push presses, along with the isolation movements... I would say a mix of both bro.

:D:D
 
rgosit said:

i want to stay strong and fast incase i play a sport recreationally.
i was also thinking about getting into boxing or some kind of martial art for, fun or maybe to compete in the future..or to kno how to kick someones a** if i have to.
i want to get big and be strong and fast. so i would continue running (sprints jumping ETC) i like plometric training also

If these are the things you want, you already know your answer. As for specifics on power matrix, I can't help. Never heard of it.
 
I think a good mix of both is healthy and keeps it fun. 485 x 5 in the squat though and a 205 bench? That's hard to swallow. I guarantee your squats need some work on depth.

996690549883_covers.jpg
 
how can i mix both???

allot of the time mixing them i see a problem running into using the same msucle group a few times a week.
both the nebraska and maimi football lifting program use explosive lift on monday and thursday and base on tuesday and friday either way ur using most muscle groups everyday.

sample of maimi
monday
one leg squat 8
warmup
power snatch 5 5 3 3 3
hang clean 5 5 5
power jerk 5 5 5 5 (what is this??)
clean pull 5 5 5
lunge 5 5 5
weighted hypers 8 8 8
weighted situps 80
neck 10

tuesday
one leg squat 8
back squat 8 6 4 4
front squat 5 5 5 5
bench (sometimes up to 15 sets) 6 5 4 4
standing DB press 10 10
glute\hams 8 8 8
lat circuit 10-10-10
roman chair twists 70

the nebraska program is very similar..


my squats are a lil above parrelell decent reps though..i recently dropped wieght to get parelell

and with the power matrix i cant see how u can do bench squat and dead 2 X;s a week heavy without squat and dead on the same day and following days.

can i do a program like above to put on mass?? and when cutting would it make sense to do cardio wile doing a powerlifting bb mix routine?

but i think im gonna bounce around
i think im gonna use the power matrix for core lifts and make the other lifts like a bb prog to bulk
then ill do something like the miami or the nebraska werkout with allot of running and cardio to cut.

thanks
 
You are right in that you can't do repeat exercises using the power matrix method. You can do squat and deads on the same day just remember to squat first. That way your back won't be shot before you do squats. The power matrix workout is stricktly to build explosive power. Try alternating through it and other exercise mediums. Also remember that most programs including Miami's and Nebraska's are based on bugarian bulk training cycles for olympic athletes. These programs were designed with drug use in mind. They were developed when steroids were legal and since most large programs still grant athletes access to said drugs, they can do these high volume workouts. Otherwise those programs involve too much and not enough time for recovery.
 
Assuming you're training naturally : Do powerlifting exercises with bodybuilding reps 6-8 . Do squats and 2 assistance exercises , wait a few days (most important), then do bench and assistance, wait another couple of days and then hit deads and assistance. Never touch machines they're a complete waste of time. Never diet down as it is completely counter productive, rather , adopt a clean maintenance diet if you want to lean out and incorporate sprint intervals two to three times a week
 
sample program..bulking..how long would be good amount of time to stick with this?? or should i keep the base exercises and rotate isolaton lifts..
i was thinking about each month switching my training
a 3 day split,then 4 day, then 5 and back to 4 and so on.

should i do more exericises for legs???

monday
squats 10-8-6 or 8-5-3-1-1-1-5
leg extensions 10-8-6
leg curls 10-10-10
machine calf raise 10-10-10
standing calf raise 10-10-10
pull up 3X failure
1 arm rows 10-8-6
low lat pulls 10-10-10
ABS

wednisday
flatbench 10-8-6 or 8-3-1-1-1-5
db incline bench 10-8-6
dips 3 X failure hanging weight
DB press 10-8-6
lat raises 10-10-10
tri extensions 10-8-6
tri pressdowns 10-10-10
ABS

friday
Deadlift 10-8-6 or 8-5-3-1-1-1-5
back extension 10-10-10
BB shrugs 10-8-6
upright rowns 10-10-10
bb curls 10-8-6
1 arm preacher curls 10-10-10
reverse curls 10-10-10
bb wrist rolls 10-10-10
60 second bar hand- 1 hand
abs


* should i do more exercises for bisepts??
 
That would be way too much volume , you should up the intensity and drop the volume, read this article from Gforce :

THE BASICS OF BIGNESS.

If you regularly read the plethora of mainstream muscle magazines that are currently available then you will no doubt be aware of the publishers dislike of anything that is not "new". Whether it be the latest top pro's routine, the shiniest new fangled machine, or the greatest ever exercise for increasing the delineation between your teres major and your infraspinatus, you can bet your bottom dollar that it will find it's way into the pages of one of these rags. Just so long as it's "new". Why is that? Well, the logic goes something like this: new is interesting and interesting sells magazines. Note that it doesn't go: new is interesting and interesting builds big muscles!! Oh no, far from it . What builds big muscles is boring. There's no escaping it. In theory ,at least, building a huge physique is mind numbingly simple. It is in the actual practice of building that physique that the interest lies.
So, here is my challenge to you. For three months from the moment you finish this article, don't try to learn anything else about building muscle. Don't read any books, don't ask anyone's advice and don't buy any more magazines. Spend the money on food instead. All I want you to do is to read this article, understand it fully, and then put all your available energies in to applying it's wisdom, every day, for three months. At the end of this time you will find that you already know everything that you need to know in order to get very big and very, very strong indeed. It won't be fun. Your buddy's in the gym will think you've gone mad. But in three months time they will all be training just like you, so hang in there and ignore the inevitable criticism that will flow in your direction. It is part of the British mentality to mock and belittle the success's of others, usually in an attempt to draw attention away from the protagonist's own failures, so expect it from the off. Ignore the stares, ignore the comments, look at the ground, grit your teeth and get on with it. You will succeed and they will continue to fail.
What I will ask you to do would not have in the past been considered at all unusual. In fact, forty years ago it was the only way anyone ever got big and strong. It was only with the advent of drugs that there became any choice about how to train for growth. The mistake the majority of trainee's make is that they train like the pros, but without the drug intake of the pros. Funnily enough, they don't grow much. In fact many of them don't grow at all. These are the victims of the fallacy perpetrated by muscle magazine journalists everywhere. These are the guys who believe in the power of whatever is "new", while completely ignoring that which has been proven effective thousands of times over . Don't be one of them. Follow this program, in all its simplicity. Don't add exercises, don't try to get by on less sleep and don't cut corners with the nutritional component of the program and you will grow. How much will you grow? Well, I can't make guarantees' but I personally have gained twenty two kilos in the past 13 weeks, going from ninety four to one hundred and sixteen kilos whilst doubling my strength at the same time. Want similar results? Then do similar things. Stick with what follows, believe in its efficacy, and you will grow like the proverbial weed.

FREQUENCY AND RECUPERATION

This routine is dead simple. It relies on the massive muscle stimulation and hormone production effects of the "big" exercises, while incorporating sufficient recuperation and nutritious calories to allow you to recover from the equally massive stress that these exercises place on both your musclo-skeletal and your nervous systems. These routines also allow for extra rest and recuperation, at your discretion, whenever you feel it is required. This isn't an excuse to get lazy, just an allowance for individual differences and a recognition that certain bodyparts (lower back particularly) tend to take a hammering with the bigger exercises, and hence may need an occasional extra dose of rest and recovery once in a while. You will work every two to three days, dependent upon your own ability to recover, and your other days will be spent off. This may be a dramatic reduction in frequency, depending on what you've been used to, but when you see the exercises you'll be doing, and the intensity I will ask you to apply, then you'll understand why it has to be this way.

STRETCHING

On each working day you will warm up on the stationary cycle for five to ten minutes before stretching for a further 10 minutes or so…you do remember how to stretch, don't you? It's just that it seems to be one of those things that everyone knows prevents injuries, and yet hardly anyone bothers. Be bothered! It will dramatically increase your training life span and greatly reduce your likelihood of developing joint and tendon problems later on in your training life. Warm up and stretch before every workout. Not just the bodypart you intend to work, but your whole body. Protect yourself !!

THE WARMUPS

Once you have warmed up you will proceed to the real work of the day. The first day will consist of squats and assistance work. The second day will consist of bench presses and assistance work. The third day will consist of deadlifts and assistance work. On each day you will start with the main lift and then proceed to the assistance work. Before the work sets of each exercise you will follow a system of progressive lift specific warmups that will serve to further protect you from injury, whilst not taxing your recovery abilities too much or taking away strength from the work sets. I will use the deadlift to illustrate the warmup system. Say your planned work sets for deadlifts will be two sets of five with one hundred and eighty kilos. Start with a set of twenty with the empty bar, then a set of ten with one plate a side (60 kg). Follow this with a set of five reps with two plates a side (100kg), then a set of three with three plates a side (140kg), and finally a single with three and a half plates a side (160kg). At this point you're ready for the work sets of five reps with four plates a side (180kg). Follow a similar procedure for the other days' major lifts. Start with 10% of the work weight for twenty, then 30% for ten, 60% for five, 80% for 3, then finish with about 90 to 95% for one rep before moving on to the work sets. Between each warmup you should take about a minute to a minute and a half rest, though in reality this will probably only be long enough to add the plates in preparation for your next set. This system gets the working muscles, tendons and ligaments thoroughly warmed up, while taking you close enough to the working weight to allow you to get a feel for the poundage you will be lifting. This is important as it allows you to get your technique perfect with a heavy weight before you do the actual work. Far too many trainees warm up with a set or two with 50% of the working weight and then move on to the work sets. This is foolish not only because the actual working structure will not be warm enough (hence encouraging injury) but also because the nervous system will not be adequately prepared for the level of effort required to lift the work set poundage, hence depriving the trainee of his or her ability to generate maximal efforts in the work sets. The described system of warming up should not take away from your work set strength, but as a safeguard leave at least two minutes between the 90 % single and the first work set, maybe more if you feel you need it. Just rest long enough to focus yourself on the work set ahead, but not so long that you cool down substantially and lose the benefits of the warmup.

THE EXERCISES

Once you're all warmed up and ready to go you can move on to the work sets outlined below. As stated above, day one consists of squats and assistance, so let's start there. Your exercises on day one will be as follows.

1.Squats.
2.Front Squats or Leg Extension
3.Stiff Legged Deadlifts or Hamstring curls.

Day two is bench presses and assistance. Your exercises for day two are as follows.

1.Bench Presses
2.Clean and Jerk or Standing Push Press or Military Press

Day three is deadlifts and assistance work. Exercise selection is as follows.

1.Deadlifts
2.Barbell Row or Cable Row
3.Chins or Pulldowns to the chest.

As for rep ranges and sets, perform three sets of 6 reps for the "big three", and two sets of twelve for the assistance work. The exception to this is the clean and jerk. This exercise relies on such high levels of whole body coordination that I recommend you perform five sets of only 2 reps. This will ensure a maximal level of concentration can be applied to each rep with out fatigue increasing the chances of a missed rep or other mistake.

AVOIDING OVERTRAINING.

The reasoning behind giving you choices in what assistance exercises you do on each day is to allow you to give your lower back and other hardworking muscles more rest if they need it. Everyone recovers differently and you must make allowances for your own personal recovery abilities. The assistance exercise listed first on each day is the most taxing, the second less so and the third the least taxing of all. On day two, for example, the clean and jerk is the most taxing. It works your whole body, and puts lots of stress on your hip structure, thighs, arms and lower back as well as your shoulders. The standing push press stresses the deltoid structure equally heavily, but places less strain on your lower back and hips than the clean and jerk. The seated military press places virtually no stress on the lower back and hips but will still allow you to severely punish your deltoid complex. Can you see what I'm getting at? Each day you can decide for yourself how fatigued you are (especially in the hips and back ) and make your choice of assistance exercise selection dependent upon that, hence avoiding overworking the lower back and hips, which could easily take away from your performance in the squat and deadlift. On days when you feel fully rested and raring to go, do the biggest exercises and get the most muscle stimulation possible. If you feel a little less than perfect then go ahead and do the smaller exercise. You'll still get some of the necessary muscle stimulation of the relevant body part, but you won't tax your recovery abilities quite as much as you would with the bigger exercise. It's exactly the same deal with the front squat and the leg extension. They both stress the front thigh very heavily but the extension takes your lower back, hips and grip out of the equation. Lower back , hips and grip play a big part in the deadlift, so if progress slows in this lift then you should drop the front squat in favour of the leg extension, and drop the stiff legged deadlift in favour of the hamstring curl. Always keep in mind that the primary aim of his program is to give you a strength base in the three big lifts that will carryover to any other work you might do in the future. You must deduce for yourself how much assistance work you can recover from. How do you know what you can recover from? Simply start out with a fixed workout frequency and do the most taxing exercises on the list. I suggest a schedule something like one on, one off, one on, two off, one on, one off. From this starting point you can take measures to reduce your workload if neccasary. Simply put, if progress slows or stops on the lifts, then change the assistance work to the less demanding exercises. This should enable you to recover better and hence begin to make progress once again. You must understand that as a muscle grows bigger and stronger it requires more recovery time to heal up after a workout, so as you grow you will need more recovery time, and less total work per bodypart or area. Dropping the big assistance exercises in favour of the smaller ones will take pressure off of your hip and lower back structure by drastically reducing the total number of sets for these areas and increasing the time off between workouts that stress them. If after time your progress slows again then feel free to drop the assistance work all together. I'm not kidding! If need be, drop it all. If after dropping all assistance work your progress slows again, then decrease your workout frequency. Throw in an extra rest day, then another if need be. Almost make sure you totally recover before you do the same lift again. In this way you reduce workload and then frequency, hence preventing any insidious overtraining that may be developing and allowing yourself to make more progress on the big lifts. And remember, in this program, that is what it is all about. The big three.
Far too many trainees get caught up in detail exercises before they have a base of strength and size from which to work from. This leads directly to the plainly ridiculous sites that we all see in the gym everyday. The skinny neophyte pounding away doing dumbell laterals with 15 pound 'bells. The guy who wants huge legs but maxes out his quad workouts with 35lbs for 15 sloppy reps on the leg extension machine. It's a disgrace.

THE VALUE OF BIG FREE WEIGHTS

Let me put it to you this way. Take two hypothetical trainees. Trainee number one spreads his effort over several exercises in order to "train the muscle from all angles", and spends most of his time seated or lying on some kind of machine to "isolate the working muscle". Trainee number two trains very hard on the big free weight exercises, for moderately low reps and sets, and does little in the way of assistance or machine work. He concentrates on a few big exercises and makes sure he adds a little iron to the bar every week. After about six months of lifting, both men will probably have doubled or perhaps tripled their strength in the movements that they perform. Trainee one will be substantially stronger in the leg extension, leg curl, lateral raise, front raise, pec deck, dumbell flye, biceps curl, triceps cable push down, calf raise, some kind of pulldown and perhaps a machine rowing movement as well, assuming that he can recover from the high volume necessitated by training so many exercises in one routine. Trainee two will be substantially stronger in the squat, deadlift, bench press and military press. Now, take these two hypothetical trainees and swap their routines. Have number one get under the bar and try to squat the weight our second trainee has built up to. He won't be able to. Have him bend down and try to deadlift our man's training poundage. It won't budge from the floor. Bench press? Not likely. Military press trainee number two's training poundage? He'll be lucky if he can even clean it to his chest. However,if we have trainee number two attempt our machine man's poundages and reps, he will complete them with ease, and probably smash the first man's personal record lifts in the process. It is just a simple fact that strength built on machines does not transfer over on to free weights, or indeed, real life. Free weights force you to constantly balance the load, to use secondary and supporting muscles to a much greater degree than machines allow while at the same time generally involving a greater degree of directly affected musclature in the first place. They force you to work hard, and as a result your body adapts. Strength built with free weights tends to transfer over to machines much better than vice versa. For example, in the four months since I began training I have worked thighs with squats and front squats almost exclusively. I can now squat 315lbs for 15 reps, and it goes up by a rep a week. Prior to writing this section of the article I had a go on our gyms leg extension machine. Remember, this is having never done a leg extension before. Most of the regular leg extension crowd use about 15 to 35 pounds for 10 to 15 reps. Me? 65lbs for 20 reps at my first attempt. Do you really think that any of those 30lbs guys could match my 315 for 15 squat? Of course not. Point proven. Free weights will build a greater amount of functional strength in the beginning trainee than machines and in less time too. This is not to say that machines are useless, it's just that until you are already big and strong they have little to offer you.

NUTRITION AND REST COMPONENTS

Rest is what makes you stronger. Granted it is the training that provides the stimulus for this growth but without sufficient rest and recuperation you will not grow. Be lazy on your off days, take things very easy indeed. Don't get up if you don't have to!!! Lie in late in the mornings, take a snooze before dinner, and make sure you sleep all night.
Sleep is a wonderful thing for inducing growth. When you sleep your body naturally produces the neccasary hormones for growth. Sleep is your natural time for tissue repair and growth, so make sure that you take full advantage of it.
As for the eating component of this regimen, I simply recommend that you eat as much clean food as you can. The program only lasts for three months, so you are highly unlikely to get fat. I know it is very old fashioned to recommend a "see food" diet to atheletes but the whole point is to rapidly change your structure and metabolism to one more suited for growth. The easiest way to do this is to ingest a lot of calories every day. Food intake alone is highly anabolic, so make sure and eat plenty. 10 meals a day is often not excessive , with some men needing even more feedings per day. Just eat until you gain 2 -3 lbs per week. In total this will give you a 24-36lb increase over the 3 months. This is a lot more than most guys achieve in a lifetime of training. At the same time you will put 60-90lbs on your main lifts, which will change your lifting career for ever. Just imagine yourself 36lbs heavier and 160lbs stronger. Set your goals and get on with it.
It is always easier to look for a new way to train than it is to deliver full bore effort on an old routine. Make the change now. Deliver all the effort you can on the big three lifts and assistance work outlined above. Eat as well as you can, and sleep as much as you can and you will be unable to stop yourself growing. Once you have experienced the true growth potential of your body, not distorted by overtraining, undereating or undersleeping, you will find it easy to generate a tremendous amount of enthusiasm for your training, which in turn will further speed up your gains. So get up off your arse and get on with it. Train as hard as you can then get out of the gym and eat. The rest will take care of itself.
 
The writer of the above message claims that he has gained 22 kilos (50lbs) in 13 weeks? Sounds a little extreme. That would equate to about 4 pounds a week. Another poster was talking about a book the title of which was "Gain 25 lbs of muscle in 8 weeks" and everyone flamed that. Well that is only about 3 lbs a week and as someone commented, you don't make gains that fast even using "gear". Doesn't sound possible to me to gain 4 lbs of muscle in one week even on gear. Just my two cents
 
Its more than legit its the only way too train , personally i train in a three day split over ten days.

Deads x3 , chins x2 , bench pull x2
(note this doesn't include warm-ups 3 on major exercise 2 on assiatance)

Bench x3 , shoulder push press x2, weighted dips x2

Squats x3 , b/b biceps curls , stiff leg deads x2

Every working set has to be balls to the wall or you're wasting your time. The reaon this system works is simple you grow when you are out the gym not in , if you're 17 you may be able to get away with training a three day split on M W F , you be the judge just make sure you never work a muscle that hasn't fully recovered, and always be eating. I gained 10 pounds(some fat) in my first month of this training.
 
This is for BigAndy. I am not debating that it is a highly effective way to train. I am saying it does not sound possible to gain 4 lbs of muscle (not water weight) per week for 13 weeks as the author of one thread in here claims. Even if you were on gear. I guess what I am asking here, does this sound probable (not possible) to you? This is not a flame, just a question
 
if i was doing a program like this.. i would feel like i wasent training because the volume is so low..

i think im going to try this though...

do u tr to fail or every set??pyrimid what???

do u think monday wednisday friday would b better..or 3 days on 1 day off??? or should it b 3 days on 2 days off???

doing 3 days on 1 day off would keep me eating better on the weekends...

maybe i will try both.. wich first???
how much rest between sets???

hows this look
MOnday
1
squat 3X6
leg extensions 2X12
stiff legged deads 2X12
abs

Tuesday
2
bench 3x6
dips 2Xfailure
db shoulder press 2X12

wednisday
3
deadlift 3x6
caple rows high-close grip 2X12
pull ups 2 X failure

thursday off

Friday
BB curls 3 x 6
BB shrugs 3x6
forarm bar hang failure
abs

SAT-SUN OFF
 
you must never train on consecutive days, your body needs time to regain it hormonal balance after an all out intense workout, also i would drop the machines ,leg extensions, pull downs etc. just think about it this way with enough pulleys you could lift a car with your pinky. nothing can replace free weights
 
i think im gonna try the program rite from the article///
whenever i need a lesser exercise im going to go to the next exercise

how many days of rest do u think i will need???

will this program defnitly ad mass???
 
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