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Help a MAFM (Middle-aged fat man) - Long

phatrr

New member
Great forum, folks, and great posts. I've been slowly reading my way through for about a week, and there's a wealth of great info here. Thanks for that.

Background: in 1991 (30 years old) I was hovering at 12% BF, 260lbs. I was lifting on a 3 on, 1off; 2on, 1 off splt, and was doing intense cardio almost daily. Hypothetically speaking, I hypothetically might have done a couple light-moderate cycles of Deca, Winnie, Primo, EQ with PCT of HCG.

Fast forward to now: I've had a really bad track record of working out over the past 15 years. I'm now hovering at 285lbs, 23% BF. Last year was really bad: I hardly ever worked out, but I did at least do light cardio a few times a week. Towards the end of the year, I started pushing harder, and was doing pretty good, but every time I lifted - even just 1 time - I would be absolutely and completely wiped out for a couple days. I cut way down on volume and intensity, but no help. I was having problems sleeping, and was just always exhausted. But I kept trying to push.

Then, this spring I injured my left leg and back to the point where there were days in July when I couldn't walk due to the pain. I had a really bad month or two, but I think that's largely behind me.

I can't even begin to tell you how low my self-esteem had gotten. I was at the point where just getting out of bed seemed like an insurmountable challenge.

Last month, I made some major lifestyle changes, and am newly committed to getting back to where I was 15 years ago. I'm bringing the intensity back up in lifting, as well as volume, and still doing cardio. Last night, I squatted for the first time in close to 1 year: while I stayed light (135lbs), I did 5 good sets.

Hypothetically speaking, I might hypothetically be doing a Deca (400mg/week) - Winnie (2x50Mg tab/day) cycle. That hypothetically has completely turned my life around - within a week of starting this, I was able to workout and not be completely wiped out for 2 days; I was able to start bringing some intensity to my workouts; I've been able to get over the last bit of my leg and back injury. I'm sleeping well, I feel great, and I'm getting my diet cleaned up. Hypothetically speaking, of course. In real life, I'm a smart guy and would never do anything like this.

I know that I'm not going to get where I want to be overnight. So, I'm setting my 45th birthday, about 1 year from now, as my big goal date. I want to put on the lifting belt I used 15 years when I hit my PR's, and I want to be able to wear it at the same notch without having to use a winch to tighten it. I know how to diet, and I know how to workout.

Specific questions: what are reasonable (hypothetically speaking) cycles for somebody in my position with my goals? Do you think that my goals are realistic? How would run cutting/bulking so that I can boost my metabolism and not crash out? What other supplements would put on the list?

Thanks in advance for any insight you might be able to pass on to me.
 
I appreciate your effrort and your realizing that you need to do some hard work to get back into the shape that you want, but:

1. You have been back for a month - this is NOT the time to start using gear again.
2. You are 23% BF, you need to put more focus on nutrition and cardio to burn that shit off first.
3. "Hypothetically" deca is the last thing you should be using - I mean, do you really want to add all that water bloat (not to mention kill you dick) by using deca?

Stop the cycle if you did start it. Get your diet dead balls on. Cardio 4x a week. Maybe, and just maybe, add a fat burner like thermorexin to help you jump start the weight loss you are looking for.

Gear should wait for 15-18% BF, otherwise, it is being wasted, and you are exposing yourself to risks for nothing. Do it natural for a year. If you cut the weight, then by all means, go nuts...but not deca and winny. That is a horrible cycle.

Also, see this thread.

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=442122


Good luck,


Bluesman
 
Phatt, there are a lot of good suppliments on the market now. You won't want to hear this but I would have waited to hypothetically hit the gear. You can make great gains without since you have not worked out in so long. Starting too early in the game may cause the mindset that you can only improve when on. I'd go with a clean diet, with a good protien supp and creatine for a year, make some good gains then figure out a good cycle based on where you are then and where you want to be. COntrary to popular opinion you can make gains wihtout gear at your age. Oh, and get a training partner, someone to keep you motivated. good luck
 
Phatt,

Put yourself on a strict diet.
brakfast=breakfast bar,2 bannanas,juice and a whey shake made with water


lunch=Tuna on whole grain bread,fruit and water

dinner=chicken grilled or baked, with fresh steamed vegis. water.

mid morning and mid afternoon whey shakes with water..this will also help speed up your metabolism...due to eating 5 times a day. nothing but water after dinner.

If you feel that you must do some "juice" to get into the gym...do Var at 40mg ed/with proviron...at either 8wks on 8wks off or 10/10....Keep at the diet and the gym in 3 months it will be habit and in 6 months it will be a lifestyle....get your diet and gym straight and bodyfat down around 15% before you thing about supplimenting with stronger compounds.
 
I appreciate all the replies, thanks guys.

As far as my hypothetical decision: while you're free to disagree, and I might look back on this and say I was wrong, I'm absolutely convinced that I've made the right decision for me. I might be just "crutching", but words can't express the difference I'm feeling: prior to now, any lifting would literally wipe me out for days. No gains.

Steve: I've read that thread already, thanks, it's a good reminder. If Deca/Winny isn't a good cycle, what would you recommend? Hypothetically, of course...oh, and killing my dick? Hah - I haven't had _any_ sex drive for well over a year. Zero. Zilch. Nada.

bilter: thanks - good call on the training partner. Due to where I live, I'm working out in the garage...

swolenole: thanks. A lot. I'm getting the diet cleaned up.
 
I'd say skip the deca too. You trying to lose weight before you gain weight. Winnie or anavar would be the best for you right now along with plenty of cardio. Now I don't know if HGH would be something that interests you biut it could pick you up and give working out a whole new meaning.It did to me when I was 51.I know your thinking about this right now but it's something else to put on the backburner.High reps and cardio.
 
I couldn't help but notice a couple of key things you stated while reading through your posts:-

PhatRR said:
"I haven't had _any_ sex drive for well over a year. Zero. Zilch. Nada."

"I was at the point where just getting out of bed seemed like an insurmountable challenge."

"every time I lifted - even just 1 time - I would be absolutely and completely wiped out"

"I was having problems sleeping, and was just always exhausted"

...since being back on (hypothetically of course :)) life is much better.

This suggests to me that your natural test levels may have been low for some time prior to you going back on, and would explain your lack of sex drive, continual feelings of exhaustion, generally feeling like crap etc.

Did you go to the docs to get your testosterone levels checked before going back on the roids?

My suggestion would be to cease any cycle you may be on, wait for the drugs to clear and get a blood test. If your natural test levels are low (I'm not saying 100% they are) - then you may want to discuss HRT as an option with your doc, it could be a better and safer option.
 
sigmund said:
I couldn't help but notice a couple of key things you stated while reading through your posts:-



...since being back on (hypothetically of course :)) life is much better.

This suggests to me that your natural test levels may have been low for some time prior to you going back on, and would explain your lack of sex drive, continual feelings of exhaustion, generally feeling like crap etc.

Did you go to the docs to get your testosterone levels checked before going back on the roids?

My suggestion would be to cease any cycle you may be on, wait for the drugs to clear and get a blood test. If your natural test levels are low (I'm not saying 100% they are) - then you may want to discuss HRT as an option with your doc, it could be a better and safer option.

great advice! If you can get on HRT life can't get much better than that.
 
Steve The Bluesman said:
I appreciate your effrort and your realizing that you need to do some hard work to get back into the shape that you want, but:

1. You have been back for a month - this is NOT the time to start using gear again.
2. You are 23% BF, you need to put more focus on nutrition and cardio to burn that shit off first.
3. "Hypothetically" deca is the last thing you should be using - I mean, do you really want to add all that water bloat (not to mention kill you dick) by using deca?

Stop the cycle if you did start it. Get your diet dead balls on. Cardio 4x a week. Maybe, and just maybe, add a fat burner like thermorexin to help you jump start the weight loss you are looking for.

Gear should wait for 15-18% BF, otherwise, it is being wasted, and you are exposing yourself to risks for nothing. Do it natural for a year. If you cut the weight, then by all means, go nuts...but not deca and winny. That is a horrible cycle.

Also, see this thread.

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=442122


Good luck,


Bluesman

I agree with the Bluesman except, we all know that he's not going to wait that long :) However, as recommended, I would put it off as long as I could and then remember. . .Test is best (especially for us not-so-young guys)!! With proper diet and training (including intense cardio), you can lean-out while using pretty much any compound plus, test will help significantly with your sex drive. One thing to remember, the more muscle you have, the greater your metabolism so, if you can't wait for very long, don't feel too bad. Keep us informed with your progress.
 
you'll be suprised at how real muscle memory is. even if you haven't effectively worked out in 15 years.

stay away from deca. for now. maybe forever.

focus right now on tendon strength and endurance. pushups, situps, mountainclimbers, lots and lots and lots of stretching. real stretching. like 1 full hour of hardcore stretching and deep breathing exercises.


someone else mentioned anavar. good idea if you feel that you need help. poor mans hgh. maybe even better than hgh, at least $ for $.

also - dullboy supposes that you could take an HRT level of a TEST. certainly wouldn't hurt, especially at your age.
 
If you must have something now I would go with Prop and Tren 100mg of each eod. Diet down like a bitch and kill it on cardio.
 
Last edited:
Stainless_Steel said:
If you must have someting now I would go with Prop and Tren 100mg of each everyday. Diet down like a bitch and kill it on cardio.


10 cans of tuna p/day right out of the can, and 2 gallons of water p/day, for 1 month straight!

suck it up

lol
 
digimon7068 said:
dullboy said:
10 cans of tuna p/day right out of the can

Well, I guess that will take care of his RDA for mercury, PCB's and other toxins ;)


true dat.

ok, how about 3 lbs of broiled flounder p/day

and 1 1/2 gallons of water p/day

better, imo.



PCB's do a body good.

preserves the body.
 
[ certainly wouldn't hurt, especially at your age.[/QUOTE]

damn bro....................................he's only 44! Have you seen Cindy Crawford or Terry Thatcher lately. Forty is now the 30 of yesterday.
I agree on avoiding deca though. Popular in the 80's bet tren is oh so much better :)
 
sigmund said:
I couldn't help but notice a couple of key things you stated while reading through your posts:-



...since being back on (hypothetically of course :)) life is much better.

This suggests to me that your natural test levels may have been low for some time prior to you going back on, and would explain your lack of sex drive, continual feelings of exhaustion, generally feeling like crap etc.

Did you go to the docs to get your testosterone levels checked before going back on the roids?

My suggestion would be to cease any cycle you may be on, wait for the drugs to clear and get a blood test. If your natural test levels are low (I'm not saying 100% they are) - then you may want to discuss HRT as an option with your doc, it could be a better and safer option.

My doc? Hahh. When I went to my family doc a couple years ago and complained about this, he basically shrugged and told me to stop lifting. When I asked him about HRT, he said that I should face the fact that I'm aging and let nature take it's course.
 
Heres what i do morning cardio on an empty stomach after an all night fast ,that dips into those fat stores add thermorexin and you will really speed things up, you're never too old thats me in my avatar i'll be 54 next month.

also add some Knox gellatin (Jello) 3 Time a week to your diet this helps keep the carlidges bet the bones soft & spongy
RADAR
 
If you're feeling drained after workouts, your diet is most likely not good enough to support your level of physical activity. Fix your diet, get your strength up, and then give gear a try.
 
phatrr said:
My doc? Hahh. When I went to my family doc a couple years ago and complained about this, he basically shrugged and told me to stop lifting. When I asked him about HRT, he said that I should face the fact that I'm aging and let nature take it's course.[/QUOT


First off, that prick should be banned from practicing medicine, if he said that to you he's an idiot and doesn't have a professional bone in his body!


Scondly, you've gotten some of the best advice i've seen in a while. Usually SOME guys get smart-assy and sorta ridicule the situation but you've gotten nothing but the opposite and that's refreshing!

I'm glad to hear that you're back on track and doing well. Take the advice you've been given and it'll work miracles.



Best of Luck Bro! ;)
 
phatrr said:
My doc? Hahh. When I went to my family doc a couple years ago and complained about this, he basically shrugged and told me to stop lifting. When I asked him about HRT, he said that I should face the fact that I'm aging and let nature take it's course.

Let nature take it's course? Yeah. That's what I'm doing. Everytime Mother Nature bends over, I shag her in the arse! :chomp:
 
damn bro....................................he's only 44! Have you seen Cindy Crawford or Terry Thatcher lately. Forty is now the 30 of yesterday.
I agree on avoiding deca though. Popular in the 80's bet tren is oh so much better :)


dullboy ain't casting aspersions!

dullboy is closer to 40 than 30 as well. test is good for us old folk!
 
digimon7068 said:
Let nature take it's course? Yeah. That's what I'm doing. Everytime Mother Nature bends over, I shag her in the arse! :chomp:
I second that :) :) :) .

damn Radar, you are an inspiration! I wondered if that was you in the avatar, lookin great at 54!!!!!!
 
I still don't think the OP should be cycling given the lack of recent lifting history and BF%, but if I had to, I would go with low dose test E, perhaps 350mg/week for 10 weeks, jumpstarted by 4 weeks T-bol @ 40mg/day and finished with 3 weeks of Winny @ 40mg/day.

At least your sex drive will return.


Good luck. The biggest things you need to do is lift, eat right, do a ton of cardio and rest. Gear is completely worthless if you don't have those 4 things dead on.


Bluesman
 
Everybody is giving very good advice. But when I read your post I shuddered. It sounds a lot like me a few years ago. I had the same kind of thing, everything was hard. I kept slipping down in my workouts cause it took so much effort to to do anything. Well it turned out I had cancer. I had lymphoma so it's spread inside the lymphatic system. So my suggestion to you is go to one of those places that will do a full body scan with contrast, the "with contrast" is important. Take the results to a good doctor and have them check it out. Get your blood work done and check everything, hormone levels, everything.

If it is cancer don't despair. Come out smoken, hit it with your best shot everytime.
 
Big_Joe said:
Everybody is giving very good advice. But when I read your post I shuddered. It sounds a lot like me a few years ago. I had the same kind of thing, everything was hard. I kept slipping down in my workouts cause it took so much effort to to do anything. Well it turned out I had cancer. I had lymphoma so it's spread inside the lymphatic system. So my suggestion to you is go to one of those places that will do a full body scan with contrast, the "with contrast" is important. Take the results to a good doctor and have them check it out. Get your blood work done and check everything, hormone levels, everything.

If it is cancer don't despair. Come out smoken, hit it with your best shot everytime.

Well, except for the fact that I might have cancer, I'm sure that I'm doing the right thing...holy crap, Joe, thanks for the heads up.
 
Crap, this is amazing - thanks to everybody for so much great advice.


Radar, thanks for the tips man - - I'm picking my jaw off the floor, damn sir, you are looking good for any age. Holy shit.

Guess, thanks man. Yeah, that doc ended up screwing me fairly soundly over a couple years. Probably the worst thing he did was note in my medical records that I was taking "illegal anabolic steroids" when I was taking DHEA I purchased over the counter at GNC. That ended up costing me quite a bit of time, effort, and explanation for various reasons. I agree - some great advice for me in this thread!

Bluesman: thanks again. Insights like what you've hit me with are what I need. I'll admit that I tend to have a "If your liver don't quiver, and your bladder don't spatter, up the dose and hope for the most" mentality, which might not be the best thing in the world.

dullboy: thanks. Great point about spending time on stretching. I started to really work on that about 2 weeks ago, 15 min/day, and it's already made a huge difference. Thanks for the var rec.

Stainless Steel: thanks bro!

digi - thanks for the words of inspiration, I'll definitely post my progress. Thanks for the test rec as well.

Azul: I don't think my diet's _that_ bad. But you are what you eat, and I'm working on cleaning it up and taking it to the level I need it to be.


K to all!



Oh, yeah: RADAR rocks!
 
this is a great board ain't it!!!!!!
lots of great people with sound honest advice. May not always be what you want to hear but at least it is honest and helpful.
 
I Was fortunate enough to chat with big Joe thru PM and i must say i thought i was hard core well let me add Big Joe is an inspiration to me This guy altho older then my self yill smoke you folks training. More K To you my Iron Brother when i recharge!

RADAR
 
This has been one of the best posts i've seen here in a long time we need more of these where everyone comes together after all we are brothers of the iron.
Peace be with you all thru the holidays!


RADAR
 
Update

Thought I'd resurrect this thread and update everybody who contributed. As a reflection upon the knowledge that is on these forums, I think that everybody who posted an answer to my original question was right on the money.

Based on previous history/labs, I'm now on TRT (if I want to be). We're starting at 100mg/wk of Test-E, plus hCG eod. If I choose to go this route, I'll have follow-up labs done periodically, and we'll adjust meds accordingly to get me at a good baseline.

Once I get that baseline established, I'll consider some cycling.

Since mid-November, I've dropped a solid 3" off the gutline. My lifts are getting back on track, and I can see my body changing pretty much daily. So I'm working my ass off, and with the clean diet, I'm moving forward. I moved from not being able to squat to hitting 255 a couple weeks ago, so I think that whatever I've done, it's been a good thing.

The bad news is that, as Big Joe kind of predicted, I might have cancer. Doctors have found a suspicious "mass-in-the-ass" during the prostate exam, and I'm in the process of getting more tests done. I'll know more in a couple weeks, but I'm not going to let it interfere with training for now.

Thanks again for all the good advice!
 
Great job - keep it up, and best of luck on getting the butt issue cleared up. Being healthy and strong to fight the "mass in the ass" problem is the best way to go at it.

Keep us updated.


Bluesman
 
Keep at it bro..I was watching Real Sports last night about the fellow up in the Norteast that was taking his son who was born a quadraplegic in marathons and Ironman contests for 25 years...he's in his mid 60's and in such great shape the found that he had a clogged artery a couple of years ago and said that he would have probably died young had he not been in such excellent health....what an inspiration this guy is...
 
swolenole said:
Keep at it bro..I was watching Real Sports last night about the fellow up in the Norteast that was taking his son who was born a quadraplegic in marathons and Ironman contests for 25 years...he's in his mid 60's and in such great shape the found that he had a clogged artery a couple of years ago and said that he would have probably died young had he not been in such excellent health....what an inspiration this guy is...

The Hoyts. I love those guys. Being from Boston, and with a wife that is a marathon runner, I have had the pleasure to see them run many races. That Ironman he ran with the raft in his teeth pulling his son along was tremendous. The dad Dick Hoyt is a 1st class hero. Pure inspiration.

http://www.teamhoyt.com/vega.shtml


Bluesman
 
Guys, thanks. I appreciate the support greatly, it really helps.

I was pretty wiped out today (10 hours in the car yesterday, no food), and fretting over this whole thing...but tonight's workout was pretty good:

Squats:

2x20x135
1x11x225
1x10x225
1x7x225

45 Degree leg press supersets, 30 second between each set in a SS:

SS#1: 11x4plates/side, 11x4, 11x4
SS#2: 10x5plates/side, 10x5
SS#3: 10x6plates/side, 11x4

Legs were jelled after that.
 
phatrr said:
Guys, thanks. I appreciate the support greatly, it really helps.

I was pretty wiped out today (10 hours in the car yesterday, no food), and fretting over this whole thing...but tonight's workout was pretty good:

Squats:

2x20x135
1x11x225
1x10x225
1x7x225

45 Degree leg press supersets, 30 second between each set in a SS:

SS#1: 11x4plates/side, 11x4, 11x4
SS#2: 10x5plates/side, 10x5
SS#3: 10x6plates/side, 11x4

Legs were jelled after that.


Keep it up..that's hard core for a MAFM....You will be a middle aged swole man before long.. the only thing fat will be your bicepts & quads :p
 
swolenole said:
Keep it up..that's hard core for a MAFM....You will be a middle aged swole man before long.. the only thing fat will be your bicepts & quads :p

Thanks, bro. I started to setup to do hacks, but I just couldn't do it.
 
dullboy said:
congrats on sticking with a routine and being proactive about your health!!!

well wishes to you.

Thanks, dullboy. It's a birthday present to myself, way too long coming.
 
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