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HCG, what why and how

Realgains

New member
WHAT

HCG or Human Chorionic Gonadotropin is a hormone produced by the Placenta.
In males it is very similar to LH which is produced by the pituitary to stimulate testosterone production.

WHY

Steroid users should always take HCG, unless very short two or three week cycles are done. The reason for this is simple, please read on.
When you take AAS the hypothalamus senses an excess in androgen and stops producing GnRH and then the pituitary stops producing LH as a result. When this happens the testes get no LH signal from the pituitary and they stop producing testosterone. It doesn't take much AAS to shut the testes down.
Now when the testes are no longer working to produce testosterone they start to atrophy. Shrinkage starts quite soon and by 4 weeks there has already has been some shrinkage, even though you may not notice any. By week 8 the testes have definately shrunk and if you measured their size before the cycle you will certainly notice a difference.
Lets say you stop a cycle of test cyp after 8 weeks. You then wait for a couple weeks and start clomid. The testes are still small at this time and are having a hard time producing optimum levels of testosterone and you end up loosing a fair amount of the hard earned muscle from the cycle.
SO...if you PREVENT testicular shrinkage, or at least bring the boys back to size BEFORE the cycle ends, then they will be able to respond to LH well and produce decent amounts of testosterone post cycle with clomid therapy.
LET IT BE WELL KNOW THAT LH RECOVERS PRETTY RAPIDLY POST CYCLE IN MOST MEN, unless you have been "on" a very long time, BUT THE TESTES DO NOT, unless you have used HCG.

So if you want to keep more gain then be sure to use HCG.

HOW

HCG could be used every other day at 500iu's throughout a cycle to prevent testicular shrinkage.
HCG can be used at 500iu's per day during the two middle weeks of a cycle and then again during the last two weeks of a cycle or during the time one is waiting for the high hormone levels to clear, BEFORE clomid.
If you are cheap or poor and can't afford to use HCG as above then at least use it for two weeks at cycles end or during the last two weeks of the cycle itself.
HCG can be taken either IM in the muscle or sub Q in the fat. I like to take it sub q with a TB or slin syringe and a tiny pin.

Some people use HCH in larger doses spread out over a few weeks and with clomid. The probelm with this is HCG will raise testosterone production A LOT and estrogen also climbs as a result of aromatization so the high test and high estrogen can be inhibitory in itself and prolong recovery. It would be akin to lengthening the cycle with low dose test but with large testes. The proponents of this style of HCG usage do not use HCG during a cycle because they are afraid that the HCG will desensitize the testes to natural testosterone. This indeed can happen with HCG use but ONLY IF large doses are taken over many weeks and 500iu's per day IS NOT a large dose and does not result in desensitization. The proponents of this style are also in the minority by far.

NOTE: Always have Nolvadex or clomid on hand when taking HCG as both act as estrogen blockers at the breast and will prevent gyno form highish levels estrogen.

So use HCG...it's cheap and very effective. Clomid alone will do VERY LITTLE to help save hard earned muscle mass if your testes have shrunk to dime size after a long cycle.

RG
:)
 
Last edited:
realgains are you trying to be a super mod or some thing???? just skip the whole piss ant mod thing and just jump to super mod!! j/k... you take alot of time to find some good reading material.
 
Good read realgains, now we just need to figure out a way to make all the newbies read this before asking "HCG, what why and how ?" :)
 
Realgains said:
WHAT

HCG or Human Chorionic Gonadotropin is a hormone produced by the Placenta.
In males it is very similar to LH which is produced by the pituitary to stimulate testosterone production.

WHY

Steroid users should always take HCG, unless very short two or three week cycles are done. The reason for this is simple, please read on.
When you take AAS the hypothalamus senses an excess in androgen and stops producing GnRH and then the pituitary stops producing LH as a result. When this happens the testes get no LH signal from the pituitary and they stop producing testosterone. It doesn't take much AAS to shut the testes down.
Now when the testes are no longer working to produce testosterone they start to atrophy. Shrinkage starts quite soon and by 4 weeks there has already has been some shrinkage, even though you may not notice any. By week 8 the testes have definately shrunk and if you measured their size before the cycle you will certainly notice a difference.
Lets say you stop a cycle of test cyp after 8 weeks. You then wait for a couple weeks and start clomid. The testes are still small at this time and are having a hard time producing optimum levels of testosterone and you end up loosing a fair amount of the hard earned muscle from the cycle.
SO...if you PREVENT testicular shrinkage, or at least bring the boys back to size BEFORE the cycle ends, then they will be able to respond to LH well and produce decent amounts of testosterone post cycle with clomid therapy.
LET IT BE WELL KNOW THAT LH RECOVERS PRETTY RAPIDLY POST CYCLE IN MOST MEN, unless you have been "on" a very long time, BUT THE TESTES DO NOT, unless you have used HCG.

So if you want to keep more gain then be sure to use HCG.

HOW

HCG could be used every other day at 500iu's throughout a cycle to prevent testicular shrinkage.
HCG can be used at 500iu's per day during the two middle weeks of a cycle and then again during the last two weeks of a cycle or during the time one is waiting for the high hormone levels to clear, BEFORE clomid.
If you are cheap or poor and can't afford to use HCG as above then at least use it for two weeks at cycles end or during the last two weeks of the cycle itself.
HCG can be taken either IM in the muscle or sub Q in the fat. I like to take it sub q with a TB or slin syringe and a tiny pin.

Some people use HCH in larger doses spread out over a few weeks and with clomid. The probelm with this is HCG will raise testosterone production A LOT and estrogen also climbs as a result of aromatization so the high test and high estrogen can be inhibitory in itself and prolong recovery. It would be akin to lengthening the cycle with low dose test but with large testes. The proponents of this style of HCG usage do not use HCG during a cycle because they are afraid that the HCG will desensitize the testes to natural testosterone. This indeed can happen with HCG use but ONLY IF large doses are taken over many weeks and 500iu's per day IS NOT a large dose and does not result in desensitization. The proponents of this style are also in the minority by far.

NOTE: Always have Nolvadex or clomid on hand when taking HCG as both act as estrogen blockers at the breast and will prevent gyno form highish levels estrogen.

So use HCG...it's cheap and very effective. Clomid alone will do VERY LITTLE to help save hard earned muscle mass if your testes have shrunk to dime size after a long cycle.

RG
:)


If I only use the HCG at the end of my cycle, would it be better to use it the last two weeks of my cycle, then wait two weeks to start clomid. Or use it the two weeks after my cycle then follow with clomid for 21 days?

DeiselDan
 
Either way would be about the same.
It may be a little better to stop the HCG a week before clomid is schedules to begin. In that way any highish test levels that the hcg caused will deminish before clomid.

RG:)
 
Would it be necessary to run HCG mid cycle if the cycle is only 8 weeks long?I will be running this cycle;
week 1-6 fina 75 ED
week 1-8 omna 750
since fina shuts you down so hard,should I run HCG mid cycle even though it is only an 8 weeker?
 
ROAD DOG said:
Would it be necessary to run HCG mid cycle if the cycle is only 8 weeks long?I will be running this cycle;
week 1-6 fina 75 ED
week 1-8 omna 750
since fina shuts you down so hard,should I run HCG mid cycle even though it is only an 8 weeker?


I would, just to be extra safe, although running it at 500iu's per day the last two weeks and or into the first week after the last injection would be fine.

BTW the 750 of test will shut you down all the way almost immediately bro so tren is not unique here.

The only steroid that shuts one down in a somewhat unique way is nandrolone. It seems to affect the testes in a unique way and the shut down from nandrolone can be hard to recover from so HCG is mandatory when using deca IMHO.

RG:)
 
Realgains maybe you can answer me this

I have some new Intervet HCG bottles and I was just reading on their site and it says reconstituted product should be used within 12 hours. I mean surely it stays effective longer than 12 hours?? I just finished up a bottle that was several months old and it seems to be working. Do you know how long it stays effective provided it's been in the fridge?

Also I've tried to use a slin pin, and the pin is too short to draw out the HCG and you cant switch out pins to draw it out. How do you do it.

thanks
 
projection said:
Realgains maybe you can answer me this

I have some new Intervet HCG bottles and I was just reading on their site and it says reconstituted product should be used within 12 hours. I mean surely it stays effective longer than 12 hours?? I just finished up a bottle that was several months old and it seems to be working. Do you know how long it stays effective provided it's been in the fridge?

Also I've tried to use a slin pin, and the pin is too short to draw out the HCG and you cant switch out pins to draw it out. How do you do it.

thanks
put the HCG into a sterile glass vial w/ a rubber stopper using a regular syringe,then you should be able to draw out of that with a slin pin.You can get the sterile vials from getpinz.com
 
This is my first time with HCG and i'm curious what's the best way to mix this stuff? I got a 10000iu amp and a 1ml amp sterile water, do you mix it in the amp and then put it into a multi-dose vial and put it in the fridge? Please bear with me here...lol...
 
marx said:
This is my first time with HCG and i'm curious what's the best way to mix this stuff? I got a 10000iu amp and a 1ml amp sterile water, do you mix it in the amp and then put it into a multi-dose vial and put it in the fridge? Please bear with me here...lol...

YES
RG:)
 
chain saw said:
can you use bacteriostatic water to dilute the solution to make it easier to dose or does this damage the HCG?


Water is hypotonic and as such may have some affect on the HCG itself.....so use normal saline instead.

RG:)
 
HCG acts just like any AAS and keeps you suppressed. Sure it will make your balls bigger temporarily, and it raises the fuck out of estrogen levels too, then you crash your HPTA again.
 
Shinobi said:
HCG acts just like any AAS and keeps you suppressed. Sure it will make your balls bigger temporarily, and it raises the fuck out of estrogen levels too, then you crash your HPTA again.

Yes ....and thats why I recommend HCG BEFORE a cycle ends when one is still shut down.
The purpose of HCG is NOT to use it like testosterone in large doses but to make the testes large so they can respond to LH after a cycle. The large testes remain for quite some time bro.

RG
 
Realgains said:


Yes ....and thats why I recommend HCG BEFORE a cycle ends when one is still shut down.
The purpose of HCG is NOT to use it like testosterone in large doses but to make the testes large so they can respond to LH after a cycle. The large testes remain for quite some time bro.

RG

Maybe I'm missing something, but what does ball size have to do with how quick they start functioning again?
 
What if you experience no testicular atrophy? I've used deca for 4 weeks then had to stop due to gyno and my balls stayed the same size. I then switched over to test enth for 10 weeks with no change in size. I then took a break for 3 months then started a fina cycle. I just finished that fina cycle with winny for the first 4 weeks and they stayed the same also. I've also never noticed any thinning or lack of umm ejaculatory fluid. Oh I also never had any sexual sides from fina or deca.
 
Shinobi said:


Maybe I'm missing something, but what does ball size have to do with how quick they start functioning again?

If the testes have shrunken they cannot function at producing testosterone very well. If your arm has atrophied to 12 inches it will not be able to curl 100 pounds 10 times ...if the nuts are small they cannot produce optimium amounts of testosterone.

RG:)
 
Delinquent said:
What if you experience no testicular atrophy? I've used deca for 4 weeks then had to stop due to gyno and my balls stayed the same size. I then switched over to test enth for 10 weeks with no change in size. I then took a break for 3 months then started a fina cycle. I just finished that fina cycle with winny for the first 4 weeks and they stayed the same also. I've also never noticed any thinning or lack of umm ejaculatory fluid. Oh I also never had any sexual sides from fina or deca.


Some men seen to be able to hold onto testes size better than others but I am certain that some atrophy has occured with you bro. The testes cannot be shut down for that length of time without shrinking some.....
What were your results like...there is also the possiblity that your gear was under dosed or faked, especially since you say your ejaculatory fluid hasn't changed.

RG

:)
 
I gained 20lbs on the test cycle. It was my first cycle also. The deca was norma which I verified over at the counterfeit board. The test was testoviron depot. I made the fina myself. maybe I'm just a freak

Oh I forgot to add that the fina cycle was a cutting cycle. Kinda screwed that cycle up though due to personal probs.. Also the cycle was 6 weeks not 8
 
Shinobi said:
HCG keep your axis suppressed. It should definatly not be used, especially with the availability of clomid.

hows it goin shinobi?have you ever used hcg??I have used it for two wks before clomid my last two cycles.cuts recovery time in half for me.I love the shit.I will be using it mid cycle this time.maybe its because I`m 39yrs old and it takes a little more to get the boys going after cycle.I know I`ll never do another cycle without it..
 
Diz said:


hows it goin shinobi?have you ever used hcg??I have used it for two wks before clomid my last two cycles.cuts recovery time in half for me.I love the shit.I will be using it mid cycle this time.maybe its because I`m 39yrs old and it takes a little more to get the boys going after cycle.I know I`ll never do another cycle without it..

Everything is going fine, thanks! Im graduating from university this month :)
What about u? Answering your ?...I used HCG and I did like it but its just solve the test production problem while u taking it cause when u stop it everything goes back to the way it was and with clomid that doesnt happen
 
Shinobi said:
HCG keep your axis suppressed. It should definatly not be used, especially with the availability of clomid.

Taking HCG during a cycle causes an increase in testicular mass. This increased mass doesn't just go away the week you stop the hcg bro. Yes it will suppress HPTA BUT you are already supressed FULLY while on gear so that is a non issue.

Ones testes CANNOT respond their best to clomid alone post cycle since the testes have reduced mass. How well you respond to clomid has a lot to do with how samll your your testes are when you start clomid.

You should re-read my initial post as it doesn't seem like you understand HCG.

RG
:)
 
Re: BUMP!

robsatx said:
Over the border in Mex (post #38)

What HCG should I purchase down there?

Go to a Farmacia and they will have some in the frige..any mexican brand is good as the stuff is not faked.

RG
 
Well, my right nut is almost twice the size of my left nut. So what doest this mean? I mean, i am right handed, so maybe my right side needs more test? lol
 
Shinobi said:
Well, my right nut is almost twice the size of my left nut. So what doest this mean? I mean, i am right handed, so maybe my right side needs more test? lol

If that is the way things were before steroid use then it's no big deal but if this has hppened as a result of a cycle it may indicate that one testes was more affected than the other.

RG
 
Good informative post.

IMO HCG is old school thought.

As you said it has no real use as post cycle therapy since it doesnt recover the HPTA suppression but actually makes it worse.

Whereas I agree with all the physiology from what I gather from your post the reason to take is it to reverse testicular atrophy and make the testes enlarge near the end opf the cycle.

I find that somewhat difficult to envisage.

Now if we analyse the structure of the testes
A testicle contains about 250 testicular lobules; insides each of these are 1 to 3 tightly coiled seminiferous tubules. If outstretched, each seminiferous tube would be 2 to 3 feet in length. The seminferous tubules are the site of sperm production


The seminiferous tubules are also lined with pyramid-shaped cells known as the Sertoli cells. Located in spaces between the seminiferous tubules are the interstitial cells, which are also known as the Leydig cells. Their function is to produce testosterone,

So the testes is mainly comprised of tubules and sertoli cells.
Leydig cells are less in number,the very name interstitial cells tells you they are scattered in between the tubules.

As HCG has the actions of LH it acts on the Leydig cells.

So to increase the size of atrophied testes HCG would not be the drug of choice and along with its HPTA suppressive effects thats why IMO it is redundant.

Peace.
 
TheHype said:
Good informative post.

IMO HCG is old school thought.

As you said it has no real use as post cycle therapy since it doesnt recover the HPTA suppression but actually makes it worse.

Whereas I agree with all the physiology from what I gather from your post the reason to take is it to reverse testicular atrophy and make the testes enlarge near the end opf the cycle.

I find that somewhat difficult to envisage.

Now if we analyse the structure of the testes
A testicle contains about 250 testicular lobules; insides each of these are 1 to 3 tightly coiled seminiferous tubules. If outstretched, each seminiferous tube would be 2 to 3 feet in length. The seminferous tubules are the site of sperm production


The seminiferous tubules are also lined with pyramid-shaped cells known as the Sertoli cells. Located in spaces between the seminiferous tubules are the interstitial cells, which are also known as the Leydig cells. Their function is to produce testosterone,

So the testes is mainly comprised of tubules and sertoli cells.
Leydig cells are less in number,the very name interstitial cells tells you they are scattered in between the tubules.

As HCG has the actions of LH it acts on the Leydig cells.

So to increase the size of atrophied testes HCG would not be the drug of choice and along with its HPTA suppressive effects thats why IMO it is redundant.

Peace.


All I can say to this is ...NOT! he he he .:nopity:

RG:)
 
I read on AnabolicReview that HCG need not be injected ED.

"Since the testosterone level remains considerably elevated for several days, it is unnecessary to inject HCG more than once every 5 days. "

Any thoughts?

stub
 
Bump

Bump to answer some questions....Great Post!!!
 
good read
 
Great post! I think that someone on here who can write well should address how to mix the HCG for first time users. I get a lot of PM's from people about it. Unfortunately, I don't have the best written expression. I see a lot of the same with first time GH users. I guess that people don't realize their HCG is 5000iu's (powder) regardless once it is mixed with water. A lot of people add all the water then don't know how to measure what they are withdrawing.
Hopefully, someone can address this and add it to a sticky so we can put the topic of HCG to rest...

Thanks again

Karma to you for the post!
 
finally I'm a bit more clear on this hcg thing. I've read all the sticky's, book, web sites, and finally I've got a good idea of what's going on.
As for mixing the hcg and it's concentration, that's gonna be hard to outline for everyone because the hcg comes in different combinations.
 
Just wanted to bump this again. Alot of guys seemed confused about HCG, this should help. I bumped it a year ago, and now a again.
 
slat1 said:
Great post! I think that someone on here who can write well should address how to mix the HCG for first time users. I get a lot of PM's from people about it. Unfortunately, I don't have the best written expression. I see a lot of the same with first time GH users. I guess that people don't realize their HCG is 5000iu's (powder) regardless once it is mixed with water. A lot of people add all the water then don't know how to measure what they are withdrawing.
Hopefully, someone can address this and add it to a sticky so we can put the topic of HCG to rest...


Great post, would love to hear about the general mixing methods...
 
Great post! I think that someone on here who can write well should address how to mix the HCG for first time users. I get a lot of PM's from people about it. Unfortunately, I don't have the best written expression. I see a lot of the same with first time GH users. I guess that people don't realize their HCG is 5000iu's (powder) regardless once it is mixed with water. A lot of people add all the water then don't know how to measure what they are withdrawing.
Hopefully, someone can address this and add it to a sticky so we can put the topic of HCG to rest...

Thanks again

Karma to you for the post!


i know i'm bumping this thread from the dead but can someone instruct me on how to mix my 5000IU's of HCG it came with powder and a vial of liquid.

please take it easy on me i'm still a noob.
 
Interesting thread and discussion. Not that I am a consensus builder I am concerned still about my own situation whileon HRT. I am to take 500IU every week while on my HRT. Speaking to a knowledgeable friend he suggested that I just stop and wait until the point that I am near the end of this cycle (6-months).

I too have noticed a pulling and aching sensation after an injection - which is offset from my Test injections. What do you think? Stop the HCG now and wait until the end and then start the injections?

Thanks
 
Good informative post.

IMO HCG is old school thought.

As you said it has no real use as post cycle therapy since it doesnt recover the HPTA suppression but actually makes it worse.

Whereas I agree with all the physiology from what I gather from your post the reason to take is it to reverse testicular atrophy and make the testes enlarge near the end opf the cycle.

I find that somewhat difficult to envisage.

Now if we analyse the structure of the testes
A testicle contains about 250 testicular lobules; insides each of these are 1 to 3 tightly coiled seminiferous tubules. If outstretched, each seminiferous tube would be 2 to 3 feet in length. The seminferous tubules are the site of sperm production


The seminiferous tubules are also lined with pyramid-shaped cells known as the Sertoli cells. Located in spaces between the seminiferous tubules are the interstitial cells, which are also known as the Leydig cells. Their function is to produce testosterone,

So the testes is mainly comprised of tubules and sertoli cells.
Leydig cells are less in number,the very name interstitial cells tells you they are scattered in between the tubules.

As HCG has the actions of LH it acts on the Leydig cells.

So to increase the size of atrophied testes HCG would not be the drug of choice and along with its HPTA suppressive effects thats why IMO it is redundant.

Peace.

There were some interesting points made in this 6 year old thread, but this post above deserved more scrutiny. It was rejected out of hand by the OP because of its radical point of view. In fact the OP didn't even bother arguing the points made and they were made respectfully by a new poster who totaled 2 posts before he moved on.

It got me thinking.

Why does everyone assume that smaller testicles automatically translates into lower testosterone production? It would seem from the above post that the testosterone production sites make up a small fraction of their mass. Perhaps lowered sperm production is the main reason for the shrinkage.

I don't know jack shit about this, but I think it merits more discussion.
 
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