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Here's an interesting study on the use of HCG for gonadotrophin-deficient infertile men. The study was fairly comprehensive and was conducted from 1982 to 1998.
It's a long read, but you can scroll through it.
A few key points;
1.) "Prior androgen therapy has an apparently deleterious effect on attainment of sperm concentration of 20x106/ml in the exploratory Kaplan–Meier analysis, but not on lower sperm output thresholds or on pregnancy, and importantly, no effect was detected by correlated Cox analysis. Furthermore, this exploratory analysis was confounded because prior androgen therapy was associated with significantly lower testis volume.
The replication of these results in gonadotrophin-naïve men suggests that this quantitative effect on the rapidity and extent of induction of spermatogenesis could be due to the prior use of androgens instead of gonadotrophins. ..... Since a marked effect on time to conception was not shown and others have not found any relationship between the duration of androgen therapy and the time to detect sperm (Okada et al., 1992) nor any difference between prior androgen or prior gonadotrophin therapy (Kliesch et al., 1994), androgen use per se is not likely to be detrimental.
2.) Our Kaplan–Meier estimate that 20.5 months of treatment is required before pregnancy occurs is in agreement with the limited published data
3.)Treatment commenced by substituting androgen replacement therapy (if used) with HCG (Pregnyl; Organon or Profasi; Serono) at one ampoule (1500 or 2000 IU respectively) administered twice weekly, usually by self-injection under the skin of the abdomen or upper thigh. Adequacy of HCG dosage was evaluated after the first month. If the trough plasma testosterone (measured immediately before the next injection) remained subnormal and/or if androgenic effects were not well maintained, the same dosage was increased to three times or, rarely, four times weekly. HCG treatment was maintained alone for 3–6 months and, if no sperm had appeared by at most 6 months of adequate HCG treatment, FSH was added. The initial dose of uFSH (Pergonal; Serono or Humegon; Organon) was 75 IU three times weekly and for rFSH (Gonal F; Serono or Puregon; Organon) 150 IU three times weekly. When using both gonadotrophins, they were mixed and administered in the same syringe. If testis growth and sperm output was inadequate, the FSH dosage was increased to 150 IU three times weekly and, rarely, to 150 IU daily. The typical dose required was 150 IU three times weekly.
Notice the dosages. 3,000 to 4,000IU's per week for up to 6 months. Of course this is a study of gonadotrophin-deficient infertile men, but still it seems to suggest high doses can be used, for an extended period of time.
What does this all mean for AAS users? Not sure as it doesn't address many issues that affect us, but it does address testis volume (shrunken nuts) and how that changed after up to 6 MONTHS of fairly high HCG doses.
Plus testis size was critical in predicting pregnancy success.
The main point I come away with is your testicle size is a good indicator of need for HCG, especially if you want to have children and the second is we might need higher doses for longer periods of time. Oh well if you can weed through the non essential jargon it is quite interesting.
Here is the link to the study http://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/17/3/625
Maybe we all just need to have our balls measured and then decide how much HCG to use and for how long?
It's a long read, but you can scroll through it.
A few key points;
1.) "Prior androgen therapy has an apparently deleterious effect on attainment of sperm concentration of 20x106/ml in the exploratory Kaplan–Meier analysis, but not on lower sperm output thresholds or on pregnancy, and importantly, no effect was detected by correlated Cox analysis. Furthermore, this exploratory analysis was confounded because prior androgen therapy was associated with significantly lower testis volume.
The replication of these results in gonadotrophin-naïve men suggests that this quantitative effect on the rapidity and extent of induction of spermatogenesis could be due to the prior use of androgens instead of gonadotrophins. ..... Since a marked effect on time to conception was not shown and others have not found any relationship between the duration of androgen therapy and the time to detect sperm (Okada et al., 1992) nor any difference between prior androgen or prior gonadotrophin therapy (Kliesch et al., 1994), androgen use per se is not likely to be detrimental.
2.) Our Kaplan–Meier estimate that 20.5 months of treatment is required before pregnancy occurs is in agreement with the limited published data
3.)Treatment commenced by substituting androgen replacement therapy (if used) with HCG (Pregnyl; Organon or Profasi; Serono) at one ampoule (1500 or 2000 IU respectively) administered twice weekly, usually by self-injection under the skin of the abdomen or upper thigh. Adequacy of HCG dosage was evaluated after the first month. If the trough plasma testosterone (measured immediately before the next injection) remained subnormal and/or if androgenic effects were not well maintained, the same dosage was increased to three times or, rarely, four times weekly. HCG treatment was maintained alone for 3–6 months and, if no sperm had appeared by at most 6 months of adequate HCG treatment, FSH was added. The initial dose of uFSH (Pergonal; Serono or Humegon; Organon) was 75 IU three times weekly and for rFSH (Gonal F; Serono or Puregon; Organon) 150 IU three times weekly. When using both gonadotrophins, they were mixed and administered in the same syringe. If testis growth and sperm output was inadequate, the FSH dosage was increased to 150 IU three times weekly and, rarely, to 150 IU daily. The typical dose required was 150 IU three times weekly.
Notice the dosages. 3,000 to 4,000IU's per week for up to 6 months. Of course this is a study of gonadotrophin-deficient infertile men, but still it seems to suggest high doses can be used, for an extended period of time.
What does this all mean for AAS users? Not sure as it doesn't address many issues that affect us, but it does address testis volume (shrunken nuts) and how that changed after up to 6 MONTHS of fairly high HCG doses.
Plus testis size was critical in predicting pregnancy success.
The main point I come away with is your testicle size is a good indicator of need for HCG, especially if you want to have children and the second is we might need higher doses for longer periods of time. Oh well if you can weed through the non essential jargon it is quite interesting.
Here is the link to the study http://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/17/3/625
Maybe we all just need to have our balls measured and then decide how much HCG to use and for how long?
