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H &K or Glock
- Thread starter Arabian
- Start date
Very hard to critique H&K because its top quality. I own a P7M8 and that thing is by far the most reliable and accurate pistol I ever owned. All the H&K folks I know never complained. Cant say the same about Glocks. Only issue you may have (depends on your supplier) is ordering parts from H&K. It's a hit or miss. They can be fast or slow, depending on their mood.....
Colonel Ingus
New member
Arabian said:
A lot of this depends upon your intended use for the pistol.
If you are used to the grip angle of a Glock, then adjusting to the grip angle of the HK (or a lot of others for that matter) may be an issue for you.
What do you plan to do with the new pistol? Not that you need a reason, but it sounds like you have a few pistols that already fulfill the same role.
Are you referring to the HK 45 that was submitted for the recent SOCCOM proposal to replace the Baretta 92 and the 1911? I read a Gun Test article on this new H&K (not USP or P2000 series)
This H&K service pistol is scheduled for release in early 2007 and has a MSRP of $850-$900. It has a "neutral colored" polymer frame.
This H&K service pistol is scheduled for release in early 2007 and has a MSRP of $850-$900. It has a "neutral colored" polymer frame.
P
Phaded
Guest
My better half has a HK USP Tactical - it's sweet!
I have a USP compact
The P7M8 - you just have to shoot one of these - OMFG
We're both Glock owners as well.
The recoil is about the same, I did find that the HK USP compact has a stickier slide than the G 19 (could just be specific to that particular one) and the G19 has more sensitive trigger (IMHO).
The Glock sits better in my hand, it's lower- feels natural but I'm real partical to the grip that's on it.
The real breaker is personal - how big is your hand and what kind of safety do you prefer?
I have a USP compact
The P7M8 - you just have to shoot one of these - OMFG
We're both Glock owners as well.
The recoil is about the same, I did find that the HK USP compact has a stickier slide than the G 19 (could just be specific to that particular one) and the G19 has more sensitive trigger (IMHO).
The Glock sits better in my hand, it's lower- feels natural but I'm real partical to the grip that's on it.
The real breaker is personal - how big is your hand and what kind of safety do you prefer?
BNG
Well-known member
I don't own either of these but have fired both. The H&K USP was very easy for me to shoot well with little experience. It felt more natural to me. I did well enough with the Glock that it was no issue either but it wasn't comfortable and although the rep is good I had little confidence in it. I had been using a 1911, M92, previously. I then wound up with a Sig Sauer and think quite highly of them.
I now have a 1911 and Sig that I use the most.
My suggestion is to try them out at a shooting range that lets you rent.
I now have a 1911 and Sig that I use the most.
My suggestion is to try them out at a shooting range that lets you rent.
therockrt72
New member
you can't compare the two. HK's are in a differnt category. HK>>>>>>>glock any day.
glocks are cool cuz of the ruggedness.
plus why would you want a .45 compact. ive shot the glock .40 compact and that was so small and hard to grip much less a .45 compact.
glocks are cool cuz of the ruggedness.
plus why would you want a .45 compact. ive shot the glock .40 compact and that was so small and hard to grip much less a .45 compact.
Trojan Horse
New member
H.K. is of better quality in my opinion; however, Glock for everyday reliability ruggedness, etc...
Powerbuilder333
Timeout? No, timeouts are for Plats
Just wondering why you would need parts for a gun that is so reliable?manny78 said:
I own 4 Glocks, and carry 2 of them 40 hours a week on the job. I've never needed to replace Glock parts.
Glocks are the #1 carried handgun of American cops and criminals for a reason.
I believe Sig is #2.
Powerbuilder333
Timeout? No, timeouts are for Plats
Latest issue of GUN TESTS Jan 2008, pages 19 - 25.
Compared 3 full sized polymer .45's.
S&W M&P45 at a MSRP of $619 wins with a A- grade.
Glock 21 SF at a MSRP of $635 takes 2nd with a B+ grade.
H&K USP45CT at a whopping MSRP of $1235 finishes last with a C- grade.
It looks like people on EF believe that the more a gun costs the better it is. Not true according to the experts.
Compared 3 full sized polymer .45's.
S&W M&P45 at a MSRP of $619 wins with a A- grade.
Glock 21 SF at a MSRP of $635 takes 2nd with a B+ grade.
H&K USP45CT at a whopping MSRP of $1235 finishes last with a C- grade.
It looks like people on EF believe that the more a gun costs the better it is. Not true according to the experts.
Inhibitor13
New member
I like smith and wesson's products
enacer420nj
Well-known member
glock HK and SIG are all great guns just a matter of preferance I think
pappad
New member
I own 4 Glocks but check out the Para-Ordnance P-10 compact .45!! It ROCKS!!!
Nice little story!
THE PARA-ORDNANCE P10-45
By Al Hagan
Just a note about me - I have been shooting .45's for 32 years (since age 8), and during a 4-year tour in the Marine Corps, managed to fire many thousands of rounds through all of the U.S. military smallarms – M-16's, M-60's, M-203 40mm grenades, and M-2 and M-85 .50 cals. One afternoon I even had the opportunity to burn off 3500 rounds of .223 – it being easier to turn empty brass hulls back in to the ammo supply point than loose, live ammo. I took 6 M-16's, about forty 30-round magazines, and two privates to load the magazines. I practiced full-auto fire in every way imaginable – from the shoulder, from the hip, one-handed (uncontrollable), with an M-16 in each hand (really uncontrollable), etc. I currently burn off at least a couple hundred rounds per month, mostly .45 and .308 – real calibers. I am a big fan of the .45, and currently own a government M1911A1, a Combat Commander, a Springfield Ultra-Compact V-10, and a P10-45. I once even owned a Savage .45 – one of those submitted to the Army trials, which the Browning design won. So I do know a little about firearms. But enough about me –
When I bought the P10 a couple of months ago, I wanted a small, concealable piece. I am going through the paperwork for a concealed carry permit and briefly flirted with the idea of a Colt Pocket Nine. I just couldn't stomach the thought of a 9mm, though. The P10 is light (24 oz.!) with the alloy frame and small – the smallest .45, according to Para-Ordnance's literature; 6.5" long and 4.5" tall, vs. 39 oz., 8.5" long and 5.75" tall for the full-sized M1911-type.
One criticism is because it has an affliction that, as Jeff Cooper has pointed out, many of us do – a fat butt. Short and fat. I measured my other .45s with a tape measure and came up with 5-3/8, 5-1/2, and 5-5/8 diameter butts – these pistols have a variety of Pachmayr and wood grips and flat or arched mainspring housings. The P10 has a 6" diameter butt, with slimline Pearce grips. That ½" makes a difference, but if you want the 10+1 rounds of .45, this is the place to go.
The shortness of the butt allows only 2 fingers – the little finger has to curl under the magazine well. I have fairly big hands and found that Pearce Grip, Inc. (P.O. Box 187, Bothell, WA 98041-0187, 1-800-390-9420) had the solution. They offer wrap-around grips (like Pachmayrs, only Pachmayr doesn't offer them for the P10 yet) and a grip extension. For $9.95 suggested retail, the grip extension replaces the magazine floor plate and offers a rest for the little finger, and gives some leverage to control the little beast. I bought one, and use my (of course longer) P14 magazines when that mag is dry.
At this point, I have run about 450 rounds through the pistol, using 5 different magazines and the following ammo: Winchester and UMC 230 grain FMJ, Federal 165 gr Hydra-Shoks, PMC 230 gr Starfires, Speer Lawman 200 gr JHP, and some miscellaneous lead reloads. It had trouble feeding one of the FMJs, but I loaded it in another mag and it fed OK. Don't know why that was – maybe it was not seated all the way to the back of the mag. I had loaded the magazine at 7:30 one Saturday morning, after a night of too much beer and too little sleep (due to a friend's birthday party), so I'll take pilot error on that one. Also, the Lawman ammo bobbled on 2 rounds – this ammo has a huge hollow-point, and the bullet is basically short and has almost vertical sides. I have had difficulty feeding this ammo through my Commander also, and do not normally stock it. I was just burning off the remainder of the box. I don't have a problem with these misfeeds, as I practice mainly with FMJ and carry with Hydra-Shoks. That means one misfeed in 420 rounds, subtracting the 30 or so rounds of Lawman ammo – I'll accept that. The 50 Hydra-Shoks I have fired in this pistol have all fed flawlessly and delivered awesome accuracy.
The Hydra-Shoks offer about the same recoil, or maybe even a little less than the 230 gr FMJs. They are loaded hotter but have a much lighter bullet (165 gr.), so I guess the physics equal out. At 7 yards, firing double-taps, the bullet holes were either touching or within ¼ inch. This is from a standing position, starting with the pistol pointed down, pop the pistol up, get a sight picture, squeeze, haul it back from recoil and slam another round into the target.
This morning, using 230-gr. FMJ, I was introducing my brother-in-law to shooting (promoting our sport!) and, at the 7-yard targets, cut a 10-round smiley face in the target – 2 eyes and 8 teeth, with one misaligned by an inch (not intentionally). He ran 100+ rounds through the P-10 and was keeping them all in the black after some instruction, with zero prior experience, so it is a controllable piece. It shoots where you point it.
One comment here on those who disparage large-capacity pistols: many rounds just might be useful. No, I do not plan on missing a lot. No, I do not intend to lay down suppressing fire for an assault group. No, I do not expect to hold off a horde of (insert Mongols, Zulus, Nazis, Japanese, or whatever here). However, I can see situations in which many rounds without a reload would be useful. One situation would be where I was driving and had a serious problem with another armed driver or passenger. Figuring that I would be occupied with driving and would either have to shoot left-handed and one-handed (something which, incidentally, I do practice) or, at minimum, would have difficulty reloading, a high-capacity weapon might be a lifesaver. Another situation would be in a crowd scene, where 7 or 8 rounds just might not cover all of the potential adversaries, especially if you were firing double-taps. Think about it – a double-tap insures you have put your adversary down, but also effectively cuts your ammo supply in half. A third situation is where suppressive fire just might be suitable: Consider the difference between: (1) yeah, I shot and killed these 3 carjacking bastards, but their families are going to sue me for capping their "choirboy" sons, vs. (2) I blasted about a dozen rounds at them and they ducked and my wife and I got away unharmed. Think about it. Not that I am advocating spray-and-pray, but your goal in a defense situation is, realistically, to get away unharmed. I think the P-10 is a good choice for such a situation. You get a tiny package, with the caveat that it is fatter than a single-stack pistol, light weight, high capacity, accuracy, and reliability.
Nice little story!
THE PARA-ORDNANCE P10-45
By Al Hagan
Just a note about me - I have been shooting .45's for 32 years (since age 8), and during a 4-year tour in the Marine Corps, managed to fire many thousands of rounds through all of the U.S. military smallarms – M-16's, M-60's, M-203 40mm grenades, and M-2 and M-85 .50 cals. One afternoon I even had the opportunity to burn off 3500 rounds of .223 – it being easier to turn empty brass hulls back in to the ammo supply point than loose, live ammo. I took 6 M-16's, about forty 30-round magazines, and two privates to load the magazines. I practiced full-auto fire in every way imaginable – from the shoulder, from the hip, one-handed (uncontrollable), with an M-16 in each hand (really uncontrollable), etc. I currently burn off at least a couple hundred rounds per month, mostly .45 and .308 – real calibers. I am a big fan of the .45, and currently own a government M1911A1, a Combat Commander, a Springfield Ultra-Compact V-10, and a P10-45. I once even owned a Savage .45 – one of those submitted to the Army trials, which the Browning design won. So I do know a little about firearms. But enough about me –
When I bought the P10 a couple of months ago, I wanted a small, concealable piece. I am going through the paperwork for a concealed carry permit and briefly flirted with the idea of a Colt Pocket Nine. I just couldn't stomach the thought of a 9mm, though. The P10 is light (24 oz.!) with the alloy frame and small – the smallest .45, according to Para-Ordnance's literature; 6.5" long and 4.5" tall, vs. 39 oz., 8.5" long and 5.75" tall for the full-sized M1911-type.
One criticism is because it has an affliction that, as Jeff Cooper has pointed out, many of us do – a fat butt. Short and fat. I measured my other .45s with a tape measure and came up with 5-3/8, 5-1/2, and 5-5/8 diameter butts – these pistols have a variety of Pachmayr and wood grips and flat or arched mainspring housings. The P10 has a 6" diameter butt, with slimline Pearce grips. That ½" makes a difference, but if you want the 10+1 rounds of .45, this is the place to go.
The shortness of the butt allows only 2 fingers – the little finger has to curl under the magazine well. I have fairly big hands and found that Pearce Grip, Inc. (P.O. Box 187, Bothell, WA 98041-0187, 1-800-390-9420) had the solution. They offer wrap-around grips (like Pachmayrs, only Pachmayr doesn't offer them for the P10 yet) and a grip extension. For $9.95 suggested retail, the grip extension replaces the magazine floor plate and offers a rest for the little finger, and gives some leverage to control the little beast. I bought one, and use my (of course longer) P14 magazines when that mag is dry.
At this point, I have run about 450 rounds through the pistol, using 5 different magazines and the following ammo: Winchester and UMC 230 grain FMJ, Federal 165 gr Hydra-Shoks, PMC 230 gr Starfires, Speer Lawman 200 gr JHP, and some miscellaneous lead reloads. It had trouble feeding one of the FMJs, but I loaded it in another mag and it fed OK. Don't know why that was – maybe it was not seated all the way to the back of the mag. I had loaded the magazine at 7:30 one Saturday morning, after a night of too much beer and too little sleep (due to a friend's birthday party), so I'll take pilot error on that one. Also, the Lawman ammo bobbled on 2 rounds – this ammo has a huge hollow-point, and the bullet is basically short and has almost vertical sides. I have had difficulty feeding this ammo through my Commander also, and do not normally stock it. I was just burning off the remainder of the box. I don't have a problem with these misfeeds, as I practice mainly with FMJ and carry with Hydra-Shoks. That means one misfeed in 420 rounds, subtracting the 30 or so rounds of Lawman ammo – I'll accept that. The 50 Hydra-Shoks I have fired in this pistol have all fed flawlessly and delivered awesome accuracy.
The Hydra-Shoks offer about the same recoil, or maybe even a little less than the 230 gr FMJs. They are loaded hotter but have a much lighter bullet (165 gr.), so I guess the physics equal out. At 7 yards, firing double-taps, the bullet holes were either touching or within ¼ inch. This is from a standing position, starting with the pistol pointed down, pop the pistol up, get a sight picture, squeeze, haul it back from recoil and slam another round into the target.
This morning, using 230-gr. FMJ, I was introducing my brother-in-law to shooting (promoting our sport!) and, at the 7-yard targets, cut a 10-round smiley face in the target – 2 eyes and 8 teeth, with one misaligned by an inch (not intentionally). He ran 100+ rounds through the P-10 and was keeping them all in the black after some instruction, with zero prior experience, so it is a controllable piece. It shoots where you point it.
One comment here on those who disparage large-capacity pistols: many rounds just might be useful. No, I do not plan on missing a lot. No, I do not intend to lay down suppressing fire for an assault group. No, I do not expect to hold off a horde of (insert Mongols, Zulus, Nazis, Japanese, or whatever here). However, I can see situations in which many rounds without a reload would be useful. One situation would be where I was driving and had a serious problem with another armed driver or passenger. Figuring that I would be occupied with driving and would either have to shoot left-handed and one-handed (something which, incidentally, I do practice) or, at minimum, would have difficulty reloading, a high-capacity weapon might be a lifesaver. Another situation would be in a crowd scene, where 7 or 8 rounds just might not cover all of the potential adversaries, especially if you were firing double-taps. Think about it – a double-tap insures you have put your adversary down, but also effectively cuts your ammo supply in half. A third situation is where suppressive fire just might be suitable: Consider the difference between: (1) yeah, I shot and killed these 3 carjacking bastards, but their families are going to sue me for capping their "choirboy" sons, vs. (2) I blasted about a dozen rounds at them and they ducked and my wife and I got away unharmed. Think about it. Not that I am advocating spray-and-pray, but your goal in a defense situation is, realistically, to get away unharmed. I think the P-10 is a good choice for such a situation. You get a tiny package, with the caveat that it is fatter than a single-stack pistol, light weight, high capacity, accuracy, and reliability.
enacer420nj
Well-known member
pappad said:
looks more like an auto biography brotha lol
squatmonkey
New member
I Have a Smith and Wesson Lightweight deffender and I love it, Its not to big lightweight(of course) and supper smooth action but I dont think you can find them very easily...
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