Gyno or paranoia?

[Expedia.cooooom]

As you could tell from my title, i'm a little concerned I may be getting gyno. I have some pictures here for you to judge, however i used to weigh 310 pounds and thats the reason for the hanging skin around my stomach and chest. So it may be hard to determine whether its gyno or not.

I am currently on week four of a Test E. cycle, 2x250mg/wk. I am also running arimidex along side it. I was running the arimidex at .25 EOD but due to my concern of gyno i have upped it to .5 EOD. I have been experiencing no sensitivity and very little itch, which could be just in my head. My main concern is that i have a small amount of lumpy flesh under my nipple, but I've also been told by many of my friends that I have the same thing and they say its normal. I have pretty much had them as long as i remember but they seem more pronounced now. I went to the doctor 3 weeks ago and he said everything was fine and not to worry, I have a follow up visit next week. My question to you is what should i do in the meantime? should i begin novaldex? should i up my arimidex? any assistance with this would be much appriciated. here are the pictures.

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[goal245]

Doesn't look like gyno, but you should run nolva anyways at 10 to 15 mg every day to help with cholesterol levels caused by low estrogen from the Arimadex. I think you should keep you arimadex at .25 EOD as .50 will hinder you gains and does not have any real benefit over .25 unless you experience a lot of bloat which you should not at that dose of test.

 

[eClenbuterol]

Doesn't look like gyno, but you should run nolva anyways at 10 to 15 mg every day to help with cholesterol levels caused by low estrogen from the Arimadex. I think you should keep you arimadex at .25 EOD as .50 will hinder you gains and does not have any real benefit over .25 unless you experience a lot of bloat which you should not at that dose of test.

This is based on what scientific evidence? site your source.

I wrote this already:

In fact, both anecdotal and medical evidence suggests there is no noticeable hindered gains while using an AI. You might (and I stress might) lose a few percent gains but avoid nasty estrogenic side effects such as gynecomastia (bitch tits), hypertension (high blood pressure), fat gains, benign prostatic hyperplasia (increased prostate size which can lead to cancer) and a myriad of other problems associated with high estrogen levels.

Studies have shown about a 40-50% decrese in estrogen level with the use of 0.5mgs-1mg ED of Arimidex, so even at the proper 1mg ED dosage you would only be cutting your estrogen in half.

Horm Res. 2004;62(3):113-8. Epub 2004 Jul 20.
Treatment of pubertal gynecomastia with the specific aromatase inhibitor anastrozole.
Riepe FG, Baus I, Wiest S, Krone N, Sippell WG, Partsch CJ.
Division of Pediatric Endocrinology, Department of Paediatrics, Christian-Albrechts-Universität Kiel, Kiel, Germany.
Gynecomastia can be detected in up to 70% of boys during puberty and in about one third of adult males. An imbalance of estrogen to androgen tissue levels is believed to be the major reason for the development of gynecomastia; as a result most medical treatments so far have tried to lower the estrogen level. Five boys with pubertal gynecomastia and breast tenderness were treated for 6 months with the selective aromatase inhibitor anastrozole. Initial plasma levels of estradiol (E2), testosterone (T), androstenedione, dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate (DHEA-S) and gonadotropins were normal. DHEA-S showed a significant rise during treatment. T and androstenedione showed no significant change during treatment. E2 decreased with therapy, although to no statistically significant extent. The E2/T ratio decreased significantly during the treatment. Breast size decreased in 4 out of 5 patients, and in 1 of these 4 boys glandular breast tissue disappeared completely. The longer the duration of gynecomastia before anastrozole administration, the smaller was the reduction of breast size. Breast tenderness was resolved in all boys within 4 weeks. No adverse effects were recorded.

 

[eClenbuterol]

As you could tell from my title, i'm a little concerned I may be getting gyno. I have some pictures here for you to judge, however i used to weigh 310 pounds and thats the reason for the hanging skin around my stomach and chest. So it may be hard to determine whether its gyno or not.

I am currently on week four of a Test E. cycle, 2x250mg/wk. I am also running arimidex along side it. I was running the arimidex at .25 EOD but due to my concern of gyno i have upped it to .5 EOD. I have been experiencing no sensitivity and very little itch, which could be just in my head. My main concern is that i have a small amount of lumpy flesh under my nipple, but I've also been told by many of my friends that I have the same thing and they say its normal. I have pretty much had them as long as i remember but they seem more pronounced now. I went to the doctor 3 weeks ago and he said everything was fine and not to worry, I have a follow up visit next week. My question to you is what should i do in the meantime? should i begin novaldex? should i up my arimidex? any assistance with this would be much appriciated. here are the pictures.

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That looks like gynecomastia to me, start using letrozole asap, 2.5mgs ED until it goes away.

 

[usmcnut]

You have fat build up in there from when you were 310lb plain and simple... It will be hard to get rid of but diet will help the most. If you are paranoid stay with the adex at .25mg eod or e3d.
You will know when you are having signs by soreness in the nips and you will feel a little lump under the nips...
Congratz on turning your life around and keep up the good work...

 

[eClenbuterol]

You have fat build up in there from when you were 310lb plain and simple... It will be hard to get rid of but diet will help the most. If you are paranoid stay with the adex at .25mg eod or e3d.
You will know when you are having signs by soreness in the nips and you will feel a little lump under the nips...
Congratz on turning your life around and keep up the good work...

When he has lumps , it will be too late!

Gyno needs to be treated immediately.

 

[usmcnut]

When he has lumps , it will be too late!

Gyno needs to be treated immediately.

Not true at all!!

I have felt lumps before... 40mg nolva for a week and GONE!!
And when you feel them that is treating them immediately! Nolva will release the estro in those receptors bro!!

 

[eClenbuterol]

Not true at all!!

I have felt lumps before... 40mg nolva for a week and GONE!!
And when you feel them that is treating them immediately!

I'm sure your personal exprience is important, but in general (consider the fact that I deal with about 50-100 people per week in regards to gyno alone!) gynecomastia cannot be fixed with nolvadex for most individuals. Gyno symptoms should be treated with letrozole. Tamoxifen upregulates the PgR, and can exacerbate existing gynecomastia conditions.

Nolva will release the estro in those receptors bro!!

Site medical data to prove this please.

 

[usmcnut]

Tamoxifen citrate is a non-steroidal anti-estrogenic drug, used widely in clinical medicine. It is specifically a Selective Estrogen-Receptor Modulator (SERM) of the triphenylethylene family, and possesses both estrogen agonist and antagonist properties. As such, it may act as an estrogen in some tissues while blocking the action of estrogen in others. In breast tissue tamoxifen citrate is a strong anti-estrogen. The primary worry among the athletic/bodybuilding population is gynecomastia, or the very unsightly development of female breast tissue in men. This can be first noticed by the appearance of swelling or a small lump under the nipple. If left to progress, this can develop into a large hard-tissue gynecomastia that may be an irreversible occurrence without surgery.
(Notice the word Selective.. What part of the body you think this drug was invented for?)
(Notice it says, If left to progress. So you can notice it when it starts and have those receptors release it before it becomes a problem.)

I know it works and so do many others. Ask anyone what do you take when you feel a lump. So why are you questioning the medical study of it? Is it because its cheaper then Letro?

 

[OmniScience]

Yes that sure does look like gyno brother.

 

[usmcnut]

Yes that sure does look like gyno brother.

You missing the point that he was overweight and I'm sure he was heavy as a kid. You can get gyno at puberty and it can stick with you the rest of your life. I don't think filling up with letro and adex is gonna do anything for you. As I said IMO you have fatty tissue buildup in your breasts from being overweight.
You should continue trying to cut down your b/f % and I'm sure it will slowly subside. But if you do feel a tender lump you will need Nolva. One the tenderness and lump are gone you will need to continue with adex to keep the estrogen down. Good Luck

And Eclen... I'm done with you again.

 

[Expedia.cooooom]

Ty for the input, and yes i was heavy as a kid as well, my chest has always kind of looked and felt like this, i'm just paying alot more attention to it now because im on the test. I will stick with the Adex at .5 EOD for now i guess, and i will try to get my hands on some letro, i just don't want to be taking all these orals because i also have anavar that i will be starting on week 7 so letro adex anavar than nolva... may be a bit hard on the ol' liver..

 

[Expedia.cooooom]

I already have nolva and i can get letro.. i know if i were to take letro for gyno problems id take 2.5mg. How much nolva would i take for gyno problems, and if i took nolva would i run it through my entire cycle right through PCT or just for a couple weeks until symptoms subside?

 

[tbone1966]

if you take nolva and letro is that the answer to fix it

 

[eClenbuterol]

Tamoxifen citrate is a non-steroidal anti-estrogenic drug, used widely in clinical medicine. It is specifically a Selective Estrogen-Receptor Modulator (SERM) of the triphenylethylene family, and possesses both estrogen agonist and antagonist properties.

As such, it may act as an estrogen in some tissues while blocking the action of estrogen in others. In breast tissue tamoxifen citrate is a strong anti-estrogen. The primary worry among the athletic/bodybuilding population is gynecomastia, or the very unsightly development of female breast tissue in men. This can be first noticed by the appearance of swelling or a small lump under the nipple. If left to progress, this can develop into a large hard-tissue gynecomastia that may be an irreversible occurrence without surgery.
(Notice the word Selective.. What part of the body you think this drug was invented for?)
(Notice it says, If left to progress. So you can notice it when it starts and have those receptors release it before it becomes a problem.)

You can copy and paste all this until you're blue in the face, it doesn't make it correct.
http://www.drugsprofiles.com/anti-estrogens.html
Good copy paste job , nice to see you know how to copy and paste, but let's stick to authority website please.

I know it works and so do many others. Ask anyone what do you take when you feel a lump. So why are you questioning the medical study of it? Is it because its cheaper then Letro?

Yet again, Tamoxifen upregulates the PgR, and can exacerbate existing gynecomastia conditions. You're forgetting that Tamoxifen is an ER agonist and via agonism it raises PgR expression. You can yell and scream all you want about price, but facts remain facts.

1: Cancer Res. 2002 May 15;62(10):2798-805.
Lack of ductal development in the absence of functional estrogen receptor alpha delays mammary tumor formation induced by transgenic expression of ErbB2/neu.Hewitt SC, Bocchinfuso WP, Zhai J, Harrell C, Koonce L, Clark J, Myers P, Korach KS.
Receptor Biology Section, Laboratory of Reproductive and Developmental Toxicology, National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences/NIH, Research Triangle Park, NC 27709, USA.

Expression of the mouse mammary tumor virus (MMTV) neu/erbB2 transgene in mice induces mammary tumors. To examine the effect of removing estrogen receptor alpha (ERalpha) signaling on the ability of an MMTV-neu/erbB2 transgene to induce mammary tumors, the neu transgene was expressed in the ERalpha knockout (alphaERKO) mouse, which lacks functional ERalpha. MMTV-neu females that lacked ERalpha still developed mammary tumors; however, tumor onset was significantly delayed. This study indicates that ERalpha is not required for mammary tumor induction by overexpression of neu/erbB2, but plays a role in the rate of tumor onset. The removal of ovarian steroid by ovariectomy in adults did not alter the onset rate. In contrast, prepubertal ovariectomy, which arrested mammary epithelial development, significantly delayed onset. In addition, manipulations that increase progesterone also accelerate the tumor onset, indicating the slower onset in the alphaERKO is primarily attributable to the anovulatory phenotype resulting in lack of progesterone stimulation and a decreased abundance of target cells in the alphaERKO mammary gland.


Letrozole effectiveness on treating gynecomastia:

J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2001 Dec;79(1-5):27-34. Aromatase overexpression transgenic mice model: cell type specific expression and use of Letrozole to abrogate mammary hyperplasia without affecting normal physiology.

Mandava U, Kirma N, Tekmal RR.

Department of Gynecology and Obstetrics, Emory University, 4217 Woodruff Memorial Building, 1639 Pierce Drive, Atlanta, GA 30322-4710, USA.

Our recent studies have shown that overexpression of aromatase results in increased tissue estrogenic activity and induction of hyperplastic and dysplastic lesions in female mammary glands and gynecomastia and testicular cancer in male aromatase transgenic mice. Both aromatase mRNA and protein are overexpressed in transgenic mammary glands and its expression is not limited to epithelial cells. However, it is more in epithelial than in stromal cells.Our results also indicate aromatase overexpression-induced changes in mammary glands can be abrogated [destroyed] with very low concentrations of the aromatase inhibitor, Letrozole. Low concentration of Letrozole had no effect on normal physiology as indicated by no significant change in the circulating levels of estradiol and follicle stimulating hormone as well as no change in estrogen responsive genes such as the progesterone receptor and lactoferrin in the uterine tissue. These observations indicate that the expression of aromatase in both epithelial and stromal cells can influence the complex interactions of biochemical pathways leading to mammary carcinogenesis and that the aromatase inhibitor, Letrozole can be used as chemopreventive agents without affecting normal physiology.

 

[eClenbuterol]

You missing the point that he was overweight and I'm sure he was heavy as a kid. You can get gyno at puberty and it can stick with you the rest of your life. I don't think filling up with letro and adex is gonna do anything for you. As I said IMO you have fatty tissue buildup in your breasts from being overweight.
You should continue trying to cut down your b/f % and I'm sure it will slowly subside. But if you do feel a tender lump you will need Nolva. One the tenderness and lump are gone you will need to continue with adex to keep the estrogen down. Good Luck

And Eclen... I'm done with you again.

You can think whatever you want. Letrozole will treat gynecomastia at any stage.

He clearly has gynecomastia and needs to be treated as such. Using nolvadex will not solve the overall problem and can make the problem worse.

 

[zack!!!]

what sort of dosage would you use to treat it

 

[usmcnut]

You can think whatever you want. Letrozole will treat gynecomastia at any stage.

He clearly has gynecomastia and needs to be treated as such. Using nolvadex will not solve the overall problem and can make the problem worse.

Ummm... didn't you just copy and paste above. You ASKED me for data stating what Nolva can do... then you have the balls to say, ohhh you can cut and paste all you want. I'm not a doctor and no I have never done clinicle reseach on the drug .?? Grow up!!
I get my info from Anabolic 9th edition on any part of the steroid business that I am not sure of.. And this i'm sure of. Have done it many times and so has 80 percent of people in this game.

I do agree Letro will get rid of 80-90 percent of estrogren in your body.. at 25mg ed. Thats too much unless you have serious issues.

But you are missing the point hot shot... The OP has always had the same looking breasts.. It is gyno but not from anabolic use and letro will not help it, diet and exercise will.

It is up to him what route he choses, so when I give advise I would like it from now on if you stop commenting on my advice... because your advice in my eyes is just as wrong. And it only seems like your advice is, hey, you need 400 dollars in adex and 400 dollars in Letro and you will have no sides. But you forget to tell them they need estrogren to grow.

So to the OP, If you feel a lump, 40mg nolva ed until its gone, and it WILL go away. Then once you stop the nolva you will need to countine another anti estrogen, Adex is fine. .5 mg (thats half a pill) eod. If signs return up it to every day. You are trying to find your happy medium of how much anti estrogen your body needs. Your body needs estrogen to grow and lots of it. So you don't wanna kill it all. Letro will kill to much, Letro is for people who have got a serious problem already and need help fast.
Now remember HG adex is very high in price so use it wisely. Or look around for some good UG, if you need help pm me.
Now if this is just paranoia, try this... rise your arm up behind your head, and give yourself a nice fondling (no not your penis). If you feel a pea sized lump that is tender, start the above. And you will be happy.
But do what you want... Good luck bro, and keep it up.

 

[eClenbuterol]

Ummm... didn't you just copy and paste above. You ASKED me for data stating what Nolva can do... then you have the balls to say, ohhh you can cut and paste all you want. I'm not a doctor and no I have never done clinicle reseach on the drug .?? Grow up!!
I get my info from Anabolic 9th edition on any part of the steroid business that I am not sure of.. And this i'm sure of. Have done it many times and so has 80 percent of people in this game.

You copied the text from here verbatum:
http://www.drugsprofiles.com/anti-estrogens.html

Yes, you're not a doctor and you have NOT done any research; so, if you have to copy and paste your advise you shouldn't be giving it. There is no shame in being ignorant, but passing that ignorance to others as fact is dangerous.

I do agree Letro will get rid of 80-90 percent of estrogren in your body.. at 25mg ed. Thats too much unless you have serious issues.

2.5mgs not 25mgs, yes 25 mgs is too much. What do you base your statement on? How are you judging what's serious and what is not on the internet? Or are you ok at risking members having to get surgery because you gave them poor advise to underdose their gynecomastia treatment.

But you are missing the point hot shot... The OP has always had the same looking breasts.. It is gyno but not from anabolic use and letro will not help it, diet and exercise will.

Site your source for this information, that diet and exercise can get rid of gynecomastia. What you're saying is completely false and made up. Just because he's had gyno for a long time, it doesn't make it any less of a problem.

It is up to him what route he choses, so when I give advise I would like it from now on if you stop commenting on my advice... because your advice in my eyes is just as wrong.

You're giving members false and dangerous advise which is not backed by any science or facts, just whatever you made up. Your eyes can see whatever they want, but your ignorance is clear, so don't come to this forum giving people false information and pretending it's fact.

And it only seems like your advice is, hey, you need 400 dollars in adex and 400 dollars in Letro and you will have no sides. But you forget to tell them they need estrogren to grow.

You clearly haven't read anything I've posted or any medical literature.
Studies have shown about a 40-50% decrese in estrogen level with the use of 0.5mgs-1mg ED of [URL="http://www.eclenbuterol.com/arimidex-p191.html"]Arimidex[/URL], so even at the proper 1mg ED dosage you would only be cutting your estrogen in half. Thus, you still have estrogen in your system even when you do use an AI like arimidex. Please don't try to represent your ignorance as fact.

 

[eClenbuterol]

what sort of dosage would you use to treat it

He has fairly serious, prolonged gynecomastia by the looks of it, so it's best to go with around 2.5mgs ED and taper that down after the gyno is treated.

 

[eClenbuterol]

So to the OP, If you feel a lump, 40mg nolva ed until its gone, and it WILL go away.

For the last time, I have to repeat myself. Tamoxifen upregulates the PgR, and can exacerbate existing gynecomastia conditions. You're forgetting that Tamoxifen is an ER agonist and via agonism it raises PgR expression. You can yell and scream all you want about price, but facts remain facts.

 

[goal245]

Gyno is just a cosmetic issue, it does not pose any health risks or dangers . The OP wants to get rid of what he thinks is gyno to look better. IMO loosing the fat in the chest area will give the OP a better physique and will have a lot of other health benefits than taking drastic measures suggested by Eclen such as taking 2.5 letro per day. 40mg nolvadex per day will prevent any new gyno from the test and help any old gyno that the Op might have had. It doesnt look like bad gyno at all from the pictures

 

[usmcnut]

Eclen,
1) I meant 2.5mg not 25mg. (But remember I said don't use Letro.)
2) I did not get my info from drugprofiles.com, I told you were I get all my info. From Anabolic 9th edition and first hand experience.
3) Any info I give is by far no more dangerous then taking steroids them self.
4) You cut and past your medical research of drugs as well, so why be pissed at me because some experts say Nolva will help. I listened and it helped.
5) You don't know all the answers, neither do I... But 90 percent of your posts are this, "1mg ed adex." Thats not always the answer.
6) Why would I show proof that diet and exercise burns bodyfat? Do you really need to see research done on that matter? Because believe me it does.

You can give your info, And I can give mine... And when I paste something its because it works. There is no reason the make believe I can up with the info. But any advice I give I have done it. And remember we are all doing drugs here and everyone of them is dangerous. I never gave any advice that would endanger anyone, so get off your high horse. Just because you have crowns doesn't make you the king.

 

[eClenbuterol]

Gyno is just a cosmetic issue, it does not pose any health risks or dangers . The OP wants to get rid of what he thinks is gyno to look better. IMO loosing the fat in the chest area will give the OP a better physique and will have a lot of other health benefits than taking drastic measures suggested by Eclen such as taking 2.5 letro per day. 40mg nolvadex per day will prevent any new gyno from the test and help any old gyno that the Op might have had. It doesnt look like bad gyno at all from the pictures

Gynecomastia is NOT just a cosmetic issue. Scientific studies on the topic have concluded those with gynecomastia are at higher risks for cancer. The longer you have gynecomastia, the worse the risks. As I've said before, Tamoxifen upregulates the PgR, and can exacerbate existing gynecomastia conditions. You're forgetting that Tamoxifen is an ER agonist and via agonism it raises PgR expression. Therefore, Tamoxifen usage might not get rid of his gyno and can make it worse.

''Forty percent of men with gynecomastia develop breast cancer, but it is not a cause-effect relationship,''
''.... those who have it are more at risk.''
A. Samir Hassan, a general and vascular surgeon with Manatee Surgical Specialists

*************************

Male gynecomastia and risk for malignant tumours – a cohort study
H Olsson*1,2, A Bladstrom2 and P Alm3

Background: Men with gynecomastia may suffer from absolute or relative estrogen excess and
their risk of different malignancies may be increased. We tested whether men with gynecomastia were at greater risk of developing cancer.

Conclusions: In conclusion the prospective investigation confirms an
increased risk for testicular cancerin men with a prior history
of gynecomastia. Also skin cancer and esophageal
cancer were morecommon among men with gynecomastia.

 

[chesty]

I am curious...from the eclenbuterol website Anti-Gyno Stack - $220.00 : Clenbuterol, Buy clenbuterol, Clenbuterol Side Effects The preceding is cited as an anti-gyno stack, also see below:

Week Letrozole............. Nolvadex
1 2.5 mgs/ED.................. 60 mgs/ED
2 2.5 mgs/ED............. 60 mgs/ED
3 2.5 mgs/ED............. 60 mgs/ED
4 2.5 mgs/ED ............. 60 mgs/ED
5 1.25 mgs/ED............ 40 mgs/ED
6 1.25 mgs/ED............ 40 mgs/ED
7 1 mgs/ED ............... 20 mgs/ED
8 0.5 mgs/ED.............. 20 mgs/ED


So, I am a bit confused, I am reading don't use Nolvadex by eclen, but the site lists it for use with letro as an anti gyno stack for existing gyno.

Am I missing something?

 

[chesty]

No one can answer this?