Great results, another two week cycle

[Realgains]

I have been helping out several of my friends over the last several months who have approached me about steroids. Two of them were newbies and one was a long term user that wanted to "tone down" his steroid use a bit. All have gotten really nice results.

Two weeks cycles can be effective IF front loads are used and no long lasting steroids or test is used. You want to get blood levels up very rapidly and then you want them to drop very rapidly at the end of 14 days or so.

There is no question that longer cycles put on more mass but two week cycles are very safe in regard to adverse health affects.

Also recovery from a two week cycle is very rapid as only the hypothalamus is inhibited. The pituitary takes a little over two weeks to become inhibited. In fact the pituitary is hyper sensitive at this time and will respond very favorably post cycle.
Also natural test levels usually return not only very rapidly but to a somewhat higher level than ones normal for several weeks. This often allows good gains during the 4 weeks off period



The following is the drug plan and results from long time users 2 on 4 off cycle.

Three days prior to the start Armidex 1 tab per day
27 gauge, 1.5 inch pins used.
Tren front load at 200mg on day one
Test prop front load at 300mg on day one
d-bol 50mg in five divided doses.

Days 2-10 tren 75mg per day, prop 150 per day, and d-bol 50 mg per day in five divided doses.
Stopped prop after day 10 and stopped tren after day 11. Stopped d-bol after day 14.
Nolvadex 20 mg per day for hdl support mainly.
Arimidex 1 tab per day
Day 15 clomid 300mg in divided doses. Then clomid 50mg per day for at least three weeks.

My buddy experienced no sides at all.

Cholesterol profile was checked prior to and after the two weeks. Only a slight drop in hdl was noted.

Testosterone pre cycle 556. Test after week 3 was 727.

% body fat prior to cycle was 15% and stayed the same.

Weight went up from 225 to 230 . He kept all the gain due to rapid recovery of natural test. That is a great gain for a man that is well above his natural limit.

This is a very safe/moderate way to use steroids with little negative impact on ones health.

Newbies could try a 2 on 4 off cycle as a start to AAS but I would strongly recommend that you get some very good instruction on injections prior to doing such a cycle because daily injections of fast acting roids and test are needed.

Newbies could do 75 of tren per day and 50 of d-bol per day in five divided doses. Stop the tren after day 11 and the d-bol after day 14. Hit the clomid as above on day 15. If nutrition rest and training are in order then a newbie can gain 10 pounds on this cycle.
One can safely do 2 on 4 off cycles year round as one is only "on" one third of the time.

 

[TxLonghorn]

Interesting. Of course some people seem to be unable to frontload, otherwise they become sick. Not something you can really do on a 2 weeker.

One can safely do 2 on 4 off cycles year round as one is only "on" one third of the time.

I think this is the most interesting part.

Good post, thank you.

 

[Realgains]

Interesting. Of course some people seem to be unable to frontload, otherwise they become sick. Not something you can really do on a 2 weeker.

I think this is the most interesting part.

Good post, thank you.

Yes this is true but it happens fairly infrequently I think. But that is why I didn't recommend it for a newbie(frontloads) Doing 150 of tren on day one shouldn't pose a problem even in the sensitive.
You don't absolutely have to front load for these cycles....you could also do smaller loads.

 

[Realgains]

a bump for the conservative

 

[DiaBOLic86]

Sounds good to me. Good post. Karma.

 

[argent]

This is a great post realgains. Karma for you. Question though. I thought that the whole point of the short cycle theory is to avoid HPTA inhibition, thus avoiding clomid therapy. So why have you included it?

 

[DiaBOLic86]

Is it necassary to take clomid in such doses after such a short cycle. That clomid therapy is the same as a normal cycle. Could the therapy be shortened at all?

 

[Realgains]

This is a great post realgains. Karma for you. Question though. I thought that the whole point of the short cycle theory is to avoid HPTA inhibition, thus avoiding clomid therapy. So why have you included it?

Well bro it is not possible to get decent gains and not shut down HPTA.....in a two week period only the testes and hypothalamus are inhibited so this is a less server type of HPTA inhibition. The idea of two week cycles is #1 To provide for very rapid recovery of natural test and #2. To minimize the negative impact steroids can have on ones health in some areas especailly concerning Cholesterol and hdl issues.

Clomid is used because the hypothalamus will not stimulate the pituitary immediately post cycle. This means that LH production will be delayed a little. You could no doubt get away with using no clomid at all but it is better the other way. Also clomid after a two week cycle seems to kick up natural test production beyond ones normal level for a few weeks anyway.....this has been my finding as well as Bill Roberts.

 

[Realgains]

Is it necassary to take clomid in such doses after such a short cycle. That clomid therapy is the same as a normal cycle. Could the therapy be shortened at all?

You could get away with less clomid and for a shorter period of time but as I mentioned above clomid after a two week cycle seems to be able to kick up natural test production a bit and for a few weeks. So you could get away with using 100mg on day one and then 50 for two weeks. I am just being extra safe by recommending the typical dose of clomid.

Clomid is very safe by the way and can be used for a very long time with no adverse affects. Some guys complain of acne while on clomid but it is not the clomid that causes this. Acne is always a problem early on after a cycle if you are inclined to have an acne problem in the first place.

 

[bazilbb]

this guy is just reading from mesomorphosis.com and pasting it. here go to that site and read articles by bill roberts, they r more informative, i personally retained 16lbs from this 2 on 4 off theory.

 

[Realgains]

this guy is just reading from mesomorphosis.com and pasting it. here go to that site and read articles by bill roberts, they r more informative, i personally retained 16lbs from this 2 on 4 off theory.

Why do you find the need to say that?
While it is true that I got the idea from Bill Roberts I never denied this...read my other posts about these two week cycles and see who I give the credit to . Since then I have coached men with good results and I too have had good results. So what is the heck is wrong with posting these results.

You have got some nerve buddy!

 

[The Almighty]

Good post. A few months ago I did a 4 week cycle of fina/dbol/winny and, for personal reasons, could only follow up with 10 days of clomid. I gained 12 pounds and kept about 10.

Obviously I dont think this follows the same principle of what you just posted, but verifies that short cycles can be effective.

 

[The Almighty]

this guy is just reading from mesomorphosis.com and pasting it. here go to that site and read articles by bill roberts, they r more informative, i personally retained 16lbs from this 2 on 4 off theory.

Realgains may not have as many mosts as many, but I assure you I have read through many of his posts and he is a really smart bro.

 

[JohnnyB#12]

thank you so much realgains. you just answered about 50 million questions i had. KARMA!!

 

[muscleup]

 

[OVRTrainer]

REALGAINS...

Thanks for sharing these results and information with us, but I have a few questions...

-What was the "subject's" diet like during and after the cycle?

-Can we assume that he did not gain 'any' water weight due to the continual use of arimidex at 1mg per day? No change in BF% does not necessarily indicate that the subject is not holding water as water weight is usually counted as LBM.

-How tall was the subject, as a 5lb increase from 225-230 is more or less impressive relative to the subjects height and genetic potential?

-How long had he been off AAS prior to beginning the 2on/4off cycle?

-Was there any increase in strength?

Sorry for all the questions, but the 2on/4off theory has really intrigued me, while there is little tangible evidence to prove it's efficacy. I would be very interested to see if the repeated cycling in this manner yields continued keepable gains or at what point does one's genetic potential require longer cycles of AAS in order to make gains. Thanks bro!

 

[OVRTrainer]

Bump...

 

[Realgains]

Re: REALGAINS...

Thanks for sharing these results and information with us, but I have a few questions...

-What was the "subject's" diet like during and after the cycle?

-Can we assume that he did not gain 'any' water weight due to the continual use of arimidex at 1mg per day? No change in BF% does not necessarily indicate that the subject is not holding water as water weight is usually counted as LBM.

-How tall was the subject, as a 5lb increase from 225-230 is more or less impressive relative to the subjects height and genetic potential?

-How long had he been off AAS prior to beginning the 2on/4off cycle?

-Was there any increase in strength?

Sorry for all the questions, but the 2on/4off theory has really intrigued me, while there is little tangible evidence to prove it's efficacy. I would be very interested to see if the repeated cycling in this manner yields continued keepable gains or at what point does one's genetic potential require longer cycles of AAS in order to make gains. Thanks bro!

My buddy has used steroids for 15 years and he is 39 years old. He is 5'9" tall. His last cycle was three months prior(he did 2-3 cycles per year)

Proir to the 2 week cycle he has training well naturally and holding much of the gain from his last regular cycle.

Prior to the cycle he was eating very well(as usual..piss me off)

During the cycle he increased protein from 200 mg per day to over 300 per day. He also forced himself to sleep an extra hour each day. He dropped his usual cardio in order to save everything for recuperating.

I would say that the 1 tab of arimidex per day along with the 20 of nolva per day prevented any water gain since he has kept these five pounds that he gained and it ahs been 6 weeks since he stopped. He never looked like he was holding water at all when he was "on'.

During the cycle he trained every other day on a 2 way split. That is hitting each muscle group once every 4th day. He used his usual high intensity low volume routine with the focus on the major compound movements. The only isolation work he did was lateral raises to the sides.
It is okay and even a good idea to train each body part more frequently than normal during a two week cycle. I don't recommend training each muscle group more frequently than once every 6 days while on a longer cycle especially with squats and deads. While "off" I don't recommend squating or deadlifting hard more often than once every 7 or 8 days.

His strength did go up quite steadily . He said that his strength went up in this cycle as it would by week 4 of a regular cycle. I attribute this to the front loading and fairly big doses of highly androgenic hormones.
We did not check one rep maximums prior to or after the cycle simply because the guy is incredibly strong and his focus was size gain.

I firmly believe that you can make steady gains from 2 on 4 off cycles but once you pass your genetic limit more and more gear is needed in order to gain.
As an example of what is needed for a longer traditional type cycle....a newbie that is 20 pounds under his genetic maximum can gain very well on 350- 500 mg of test alone per week. In order to rise above your genetic limit you would need at least 750 mg per week, some can do it with 500mg per week. If you were 20 pounds above your natural limit then a gram would be in order(at least) Most top competitors take 1.5-2 grams per week plus other gear like tren and insulin and a pro that is a freak will take up to 4 grams per week and a shit load of other gear including GH.

You need to take more gear per day during a 2 week cycle than with a regular cycle. Even though the gear intake is high side affects are usually minimal due to the short duration of the cycle.
Those that are prone to loose hair will loose a bit even on a 2 week cycle.

So my buddy was about 35 pound above his natural limit as most men of 5'9 or 10 can get to a fairly lean 190 without gear.
The amount of gear my buddy took was above what he normally takes for a longer cycle, and he never uses d-bol during a normal cycle due to the shitty affect it has on his cholesterol if taken for 4-6 weeks.
A normal cycle for my bud would be a 2 gram front load of test cyp on day one followed by 1200 mg a week and 75 mg of tren per day.

 

[OVRTrainer]

Now that is a thorough response. Thanks bro!

Clearly that additional information puts in perspective the gains your buddy achieved, while limiting the potential side-effects and negative health consequences. It is even more impressive that someone who has surpassed his genetic potential by such a degree, is able to maintain those gains six weeks following cessation of AAS.
I appreciate you going into such depth to answer my questions as it provides more qualitative evidence as to the potential success of such short cycles. By monitoring water weight, strength and diet changes, it eliminates other factors being attributed to the weight gain...obviously the same changes in diet or increase in volume, etc. would not result in the same gains without the presence of AAS b/c we are taking into account your buddy's advanced level, yrs of training experience and familiarity with AAS use.

What I like about the cycle is that you can increase training volume or decrease rest time while "on" almost immediately because you are using such fast acting AAS and you are frontloading. Thanks again bro!

 

[Counterstrike]

Realg. Let me ask you thin b/c i myself don't care for gaining weight but what about his strength? how much did it go up? how much did his bench and squat etc.. go up??????

 

[Realgains]

OVERtrainer be careful not to over train while on a two week cycle......my buddy and myself will do a two way split every other day while on this type of cycle(upper body one day and lower body and abbs the next) but you may need to take the weekends off ie Mon- Wed- Fri. You could also use a three way split and workout every other day and hit each muscle group once every six day.
** Be sure to keep the intensity up but the volume down so as not to over train. Also, stick to the basic compound mass movements.

 

[Primal X]

Can you use nandrolone phynyl-prop instead of test? If so, what dosage?

 

[Realgains]

Can you use nandrolone phynyl-prop instead of test? If so, what dosage?

Although nandrolone phenylprop has a fairly short half life I would not use it in a two week cycle for two reasons......#1. It is not a strong enough hormone for the very short cycle and #2. Nandrolone seems to shut one down longer than any other hormone and even a single shot of nandrolone phenylprop can have this affect. I don't have the studies to back it up but most vets will agree that it is hard to recovery natural test production after using nandrolone.
Bill Llewellyn has a study that he hopes to soon put out that suggests that nandrolone shuts one down at the level of the testes more so than any other roid. Bill Roberts also agrees with Llewellyn and me.
All that said it does seem that at least some men have no problems with recovery after nandrolone in moderate doses of 2mg per pound of body weight(the recommended anabolic dose).

Nandrolone is a decent anabolic and very mild when it comes to sides but I don't really like it for the above reason. It is best used by those that are really paranoid about hair loss, those with joint problems and by females looking for a mild androgen but good anabolic.

 

[Counterstrike]

I'll ask again Realgains. WHatw as his results in strength?? screw the weight gain what about strength how much did his bench, curl squats etc.. go up with this two week cycle? some of us don't really wat weight gain but more strength out of it i already have enough weight

 

[Realgains]

I'll ask again Realgains. WHatw as his results in strength?? screw the weight gain what about strength how much did his bench, curl squats etc.. go up with this two week cycle? some of us don't really wat weight gain but more strength out of it i already have enough weight

I had to go get the log book from my gym locker bro....sorry for the delay.
We did not test his pre or post one rep maximums in the big lifts.

Working weight for reps in the squat went up 22 pounds sets of 12-15...didn't do bench but did heavy dips and inclines. Dips went up 18 pounds and so did the inclines for reps of 6-8. Stiff leg deadlifts went up 20 pounds and he was doing sets of 12-15. Curls went up 10 pounds for reps of 8-10. Close grip benches went up 10 pounds for reps of 8.
This is with a guy that is already very strong so these are pretty good gains I think. Remember though he was not training for strength as the reps where too high for the best power gains

 

[Counterstrike]

i think i'll stick to my 4-6 week cycle. 2 weeks might be too rough on the body saturating with high dose. i liek low dose for a little longer period not too much shock on the body

 

[Realgains]

i think i'll stick to my 4-6 week cycle. 2 weeks might be too rough on the body saturating with high dose. i liek low dose for a little longer period not too much shock on the body

Remember bro time "on" is a big factor too when trying to organize to avoid sides. I am absolutely certain that 4- 6 week with less gear but enough for good gains will be harder on the body than two weeks with more gear.
Why don't you try this....get a cholesterol profile done, including hdl, prior to a two week cycle and then check it on day 15. Do the same for one of your 4-6 week cycles.....I bet my bottom $ that it will be worse with the longer cycle. Shitty cholesterol profiles are the single worst side of roid use IMHO and MD' s agree.


Also note:.........Recovery of natural test from a 4 week cycle is no faster than recovery from an 8 week cycle since by four weeks the pituitary and the hypothalamus are both inhibited. So....you might as well do an 8 week cycle and get the best gains that you can. Sorry bro but 4 week cycles make little sence.
After 12 weeks recovery is more of a problems.

 

[Keep it beefy]

good post

Also recovery from a two week cycle is very rapid as only the hypothalamus is inhibited. The pituitary takes a little over two weeks to become inhibited. In fact the pituitary is hyper sensitive at this time and will respond very favorably post cycle.
Also natural test levels usually return not only very rapidly but to a somewhat higher level than ones normal for several weeks. This often allows good gains during the 4 weeks off period
[/QUOTE

this is a very informative post, and i'm seriously considering taking this methodology up...or at least trying it. but i do have one question from the above passage: you said in the above that the pituitary isn't inhibited, and that only the hypothalamus and testes are inhibited. as i'm sure you know, the hypothalamus produces the gonadotropin and growth hormone releasing hormones, which in turn stimulate to pituitary to do it's dirty work: among other things, production of LH FSH which in turn stimulate the testes to produce testosterone and sperm. how, if the pituitary is still working, are the testes inhibited...afterall, i would think that if the pituitary is producing the proper hormones, the testes can't be inhibited. also, you mentioned that tamoxifen citrate helps with hdl levels...helping with the acceleration of atheroschlerosis...this is interesting. can you elaborate.

thanks again for the information....

 

[Realgains]

Re: good post

Also recovery from a two week cycle is very rapid as only the hypothalamus is inhibited. The pituitary takes a little over two weeks to become inhibited. In fact the pituitary is hyper sensitive at this time and will respond very favorably post cycle.
Also natural test levels usually return not only very rapidly but to a somewhat higher level than ones normal for several weeks. This often allows good gains during the 4 weeks off period
[/QUOTE

this is a very informative post, and i'm seriously considering taking this methodology up...or at least trying it. but i do have one question from the above passage: you said in the above that the pituitary isn't inhibited, and that only the hypothalamus and testes are inhibited. as i'm sure you know, the hypothalamus produces the gonadotropin and growth hormone releasing hormones, which in turn stimulate to pituitary to do it's dirty work: among other things, production of LH FSH which in turn stimulate the testes to produce testosterone and sperm. how, if the pituitary is still working, are the testes inhibited...afterall, i would think that if the pituitary is producing the proper hormones, the testes can't be inhibited. also, you mentioned that tamoxifen citrate helps with hdl levels...helping with the acceleration of atheroschlerosis...this is interesting. can you elaborate.

thanks again for the information....

In a 2 week cycle that has enough gear to produce gains the testes are inhibited utterly....little to no test is produced. The pituitary is in a hyper excited phase or super sensitive as it is NOT getting any gonadotropin from the hypothalamus that has gone to sleep due to the high androgen levels it has sensed in the body. The pituitary is inhibited in a way bro...good point....as it isn't producing LH but what I meant was it hasn't gone to sleep or become less responsive to hypothalmic stimulation.

When a cycle goes beyond two weeks the pituitary starts to give up its wait for the hypothalmus to tell it what to do and goes night night......this is a deeper level or true inhibition.

There has been studies done on Tamoxifen citrate(Nolvadex) with men that have heart disease and peripheral vascular disease. The findings have been very bright. Cholesterol profiles have improved, triglycerides have dropped and vascular esalticity has improved. It seems that both clomid and Tamoxifen act as estrogens in the liver and thus produce this response in men.

I have found that my cholesterol profile improves if I use nolvadex. Bill Llewellyn has found this to be true of himself too and he takes Nolva on all cycles.

 

[Bill Llewellyn]

Bill Llewellyn has a study that he hopes to soon put out that suggests that nandrolone shuts one down at the level of the testes more so than any other roid.

It just hit in the July MD actually. I have recently taken over Haycock's Anabolic Research Update section, and ithis article was my first piece for them.

I think you will find it interesting. Small doses of nandrolone lowered T, WITHOUT suppressing LH!

- Bill

 

[Dr.RobertBanner]

2 week cutter?

How do you feel about a simialr 2 week cutting cycle Realgainz? Basically the same, except tren/prop/winny w/clen and t3, and plenty of cardio, and of course liquidex. You would ramp up the t3 before and taper it off after and use nyc b4 and after. Sorta like a really hardcore 2 week diet or PSMF, with a more moderate fat loss diet before and after. For someone who wanted to lose lots of fat quick, but didn't want to take the DNP route just yet.

 

[patchwalker]

Hey RG when using arimidex.....

hi. before i start, just wanted to say i really enjoy reading your posts on sides, especially cholesterl+hdl. Ive just tried your 2 weeker(tren+winny) and was very satisfied with the 9lb i gained. I was wondering how ARIMIDEX would affect hdl/ldl for a 2-week period. I read in earlier posts how you had blood tests of subjects taken before and after the experiment and was wondering what the adverse effects on lipid profile were for such a short period of use. Thanks.

 

[caiza]

bump