Gotta love outsourcing

[Buddy_Christ]

Talked to a friend today who lost his job not so long ago. He worked at a plant that made furnature, lots of hands on work and actual solid wood, not pressboard shit or "Assemble yourself" stuff. He had a damn good income as well.

He got laid off 2 years ago and had to deal with that for 6-8 months so he opened up his own shop and kept it for well over a year. He was near the top of the "call back" list because of his quality of work and knowledge, even though there were others laid off that had seniority over him.

So he goes back for over a year and said he was busy as hell constantly, they had tons of work and he was getting quite a bit of overtime. He said they had not been that busy in the 7+ years he worked there.

All of the sudden they close up the plant, sending manufacturing overseas. So much for hand crafted American made furnature.

On the plus side he'll get to pull 2 1/2 years of unemployment and is already set to go back to a trade school in the fall.

Just pisses me off to hear about it.

 

[bullett]

On the plus side he'll get to pull 2 1/2 years of unemployment and is already set to go back to a trade school in the fall.

.

And what fuckin country is this in???

 

[Buddy_Christ]

And what fuckin country is this in???

Whoops, forgot that my country flag is "Isle of Mann" Damn do I wanna go there and run the street course.

Good old US of A.

It's something to do with losing his job due to outsourcing and the fact that he'll be back in some form of schooling that should give him 2 1/2 years of unemployment.

 

[bullett]

Whoops, forgot that my country flag is "Isle of Mann" Damn do I wanna go there and run the street course.

Good old US of A.

It's something to do with losing his job due to outsourcing and the fact that he'll be back in some form of schooling that should give him 2 1/2 years of unemployment.

Damn, the tax rates there must be pretty outrageous.

 

[Buddy_Christ]

Damn, the tax rates there must be pretty outrageous.

Huh?

I live in the US, always have.

 

[rsnoble-im-back]

According to Matt the Skywalker and other Bush types--------this is all GOOD.

 

[Buddy_Christ]

According to Matt the Skywalker and other Bush types--------this is all GOOD.

Yeah, I love knowing that 99% of the time if I need to call customer service I'm going to be speaking to someone that barely understands english.

Who's benifitting from this? Sure, someone is getting richer because they're paying less in labor, but then the people that are losing their jobs can't afford to put any money back into the economy anyway.

I really don't see how this is any good, so if someone could explain this to me without being an asshole, I'd love to hear how it's benefitting us. And I'm not a democrat or a republican, so don't even bother trying to pin my lack of support for this on a political affiliation.

 

[rsnoble-im-back]

Yeah, I love knowing that 99% of the time if I need to call customer service I'm going to be speaking to someone that barely understands english.

Who's benifitting from this? Sure, someone is getting richer because they're paying less in labor, but then the people that are losing their jobs can't afford to put any money back into the economy anyway.

I really don't see how this is any good, so if someone could explain this to me without being an asshole, I'd love to hear how it's benefitting us. And I'm not a democrat or a republican, so don't even bother trying to pin my lack of support for this on a political affiliation.

Rather you want to hear it or not, the GOP is definetely more to blame for this. However are 2 party system is currently outfitted with a bunch of cum slurping morons at the top end and we need a totally ballistic 3rd party to deal with these cockmasters. It's hard getting at the truth when they play theit little rich man poor man games pitting 1 against the other when behind closed doors their stroking each other off. Our gov't is a goddamn fuking joke.

 

[Buddy_Christ]

Rather you want to hear it or not, the GOP is definetely more to blame for this. However are 2 party system is currently outfitted with a bunch of cum slurping morons at the top end and we need a totally ballistic 3rd party to deal with these cockmasters. It's hard getting at the truth when they play theit little rich man poor man games pitting 1 against the other when behind closed doors their stroking each other off. Our gov't is a goddamn fuking joke.

I don't mind hearing there's a political party to blame here, I was just saying that I can't be pinned as a democrat that is against outsourcing.

We want to get away from manufacturing as much in this country, ok, fine, but what jobs are going to be left? I guess it'd help to know how many people worked in manufacturing before this big push towards outsourcing, but I don't feel like looking it up.

Also, I thought we started sending jobs to Mexico 2 decades ago with 2 incentives - 1 to boost their economy so they'd stay in Mexico instead of coming here for work, and 2 - cheap labor. Does this mean we're now taking work away from Mexico and sending it to China instead? Sure, China needs to develop so we have another large trade partner, but when does it turn around to help us?

 

[RADAR]

According to Matt the Skywalker and other Bush types--------this is all GOOD.

I'll believe that when hell freezes over.

I have to work twice as long to make the same salary i did yrs ago.

The fun has left the job.

RADAR

 

[Razorguns]

According to Matt the Skywalker and other Bush types--------this is all GOOD.

Efficiencies promote Riches promote Growth promote Jobs.

At least on paper it does.

 

[Buddy_Christ]

I'll believe that when hell freezes over.

I have to work twice as long to make the same salary i did yrs ago.

The fun has left the job.

RADAR

I think the attitude is that if you weren't making 6 or 7 figures before jobs started getting sent overseas, it's your own fault. Am I right?

 

[rsnoble-im-back]

I don't mind hearing there's a political party to blame here, I was just saying that I can't be pinned as a democrat that is against outsourcing.

We want to get away from manufacturing as much in this country, ok, fine, but what jobs are going to be left? I guess it'd help to know how many people worked in manufacturing before this big push towards outsourcing, but I don't feel like looking it up.

Also, I thought we started sending jobs to Mexico 2 decades ago with 2 incentives - 1 to boost their economy so they'd stay in Mexico instead of coming here for work, and 2 - cheap labor. Does this mean we're now taking work away from Mexico and sending it to China instead? Sure, China needs to develop so we have another large trade partner, but when does it turn around to help us?

No, thats just the reasons we were given to go to Mexico so the US worker could rationalize and justify them. I am pretty confident there has NEVER been any serious notion of keeping illegals out-and it's pretty obvious. In fact I was just in AZ and the Border Patrol dude that lived next door straight up told me theres parts of the border that they are denied-and he knows damn well there crossing there. We'll see how long this all volunteern citizen border patrol in Tombstone lasts before it starts impacting corporations profits and we step in and come up with some phony bologna excuse to eleminate it. EVERYTHING is geard to make profits for big biz.

 

[RADAR]

I think the attitude is that if you weren't making 6 or 7 figures before jobs started getting sent overseas, it's your own fault. Am I right?

Seems that way, i remember when it was basically the small independent stores that was the backbone of America, the country could'nt operate without them,now those jobs are being flushed down the system faster than you can count em.


RADAR

 

[epstropes]

Dude name the company so I know not to buy their product!

 

[nycgirl]

I don't mind hearing there's a political party to blame here, I was just saying that I can't be pinned as a democrat that is against outsourcing.

We want to get away from manufacturing as much in this country, ok, fine, but what jobs are going to be left? I guess it'd help to know how many people worked in manufacturing before this big push towards outsourcing, but I don't feel like looking it up.

I'm sure I'm going to get some red for this, but the republicans aren't to blame (yes, I'm a republican). Nor are the democrats. I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I feel bad for the women on the lines at my bf's company that are getting laid off because they are moving everything to either China or Mexico (yet they have all this money to pay for his MBA!!, yes I'm bitter about that.)

Anyway, As you stated above, outsourcing has been going on for decades. The economy and jobs goes through shifts. 150-200 years ago our economy was agrarian based, then came manufacturing, now we are shifting to what some people like to call a 'knowledge based" economy. Yes, farms are still a part of our economy and not every plant has left the U.S., but I believe a majority of the jobs will be "service" jobs. If a person chooses to work for a company and wants do well and be successful, it will require education beyond a college degree (grad, certificate courses, individual courses) to stay on top of things.

 

[Buddy_Christ]

Dude name the company so I know not to buy their product!

Pennsylvania House. I've seen quite a bit of their furnature and it's pretty nice. It's not the most expensive stuff out there, but it's definetly not something you're going to find in Walmart.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Sweet, before I get to post, I am called out.

Let's start this right: Legislation is not driving this, markets are driving this. Bush is blameless on this issue. This is all the greedy corporate assholes that you hate, I love, and who built this country.

Markets are driving this. The following have nothing to do with political parties:

(1) Customers want cheaper furniture. If another company provides it cheaper, they will get the business.

(2) If two people can do the same job, you hire the cheaper one.

(3) Companies don't want to pay for unemployment, liability insurance, health benefits work comp or any of that shit.

So away the jobs go, where the quality is acceptable to the consumer and the costs are lower.

What does this mean? profits go up. Yay, profits. Profits...you know, those things that built the US, and the rest of the world. The money goes back into the US economy, more jobs are created. However, they are higher skill set jobs that corporations demand.

The economy is changing. I feel sad for people who get laid off. But markets do what they do, and today they are demanding higher level skill sets. Got skills?

In other news, goods are getting cheaper. This upside of outsourcing is good for everybody.

Love it or hate it, no one can change it.

 

[Buddy_Christ]

Seems that way, i remember when it was basically the small independent stores that was the backbone of America, the country could'nt operate without them,now those jobs are being flushed down the system faster than you can count em.


RADAR

I hear ya on that. All the towns around here have little stores like that. I wonder how some of them stay in business, as Walmarts are creeping in. If I head back down to the area I grew up in it's nothing but large chain stores and the like. Not many small businesses left around there that I recall seeing unless it's food based.


nycgirl - IIRC, less than 1% of our workforce is involved in agriculture. I know not every plant has left the US and there's some that will probably never leave. The thing that makes me scratch my head is how many "service" jobs are we going to have? How many services are out there now that we need more people for? With the way technology is moving, it seems like 1 person can do the job that it took 5 or 10 people to do just a decade ago, yet the population is still expanding. It just seems like a bomb waiting to explode, and yeah, it kind of has me worried at the moment because I'm still in college and I'm not all that young anymore. By the time I finish up with my BA I'll be almost 30 and I still have a family to support and I'm going to want to go on to grad school.

Yes, it has me worried. People graduating college with a Bachelors and they can't find a decent job and have loans to pay back, sometimes having to move back home because they can't support themselves at first. I don't have that luxury, I have to support my family and I really don't want to have to go back to a shit job to do so.

 

[Buddy_Christ]

Sweet, before I get to post, I am called out.

Let's start this right: Legislation is not driving this, markets are driving this. Bush is blameless on this issue. This is all the greedy corporate assholes that you hate, I love, and who built this country.

Markets are driving this. The following have nothing to do with political parties:

(1) Customers want cheaper furniture. If another company provides it cheaper, they will get the business.

(2) If two people can do the same job, you hire the cheaper one.

(3) Companies don't want to pay for unemployment, liability insurance, health benefits work comp or any of that shit.

So away the jobs go, where the quality is acceptable to the consumer and the costs are lower.

What does this mean? profits go up. Yay, profits. Profits...you know, those things that built the US, and the rest of the world. The money goes back into the US economy, more jobs are created. However, they are higher skill set jobs that corporations demand.

The economy is changing. I feel sad for people who get laid off. But markets do what they do, and today they are demanding higher level skill sets. Got skills?

In other news, goods are getting cheaper. This upside of outsourcing is good for everybody.

Love it or hate it, no one can change it.

I know that we, as consumers, always want to get things for the lowest price possible. I sure as hell do anyway.

But what happens to the people that don't have the skill to handle the new jobs that are supposedly being created? Is a guy that's 10 years away from retirement supposed to go back to school and learn a new skill, all while losing money?

To me it just seems that you don't bite the hand that feeds you. The workers help build the company so the owners and stockholders profit. They've given into the company, and without them, there would be no profit. To give them the big "fuck you" and send their job overseas, to me, seems unethical.

Yes, all that helped build the country, and no, there's nothing we can do to change it, but I still don't see how this is going to be good for everyone. If you can't bring in the income you need to spend and put it back into the economy, what good is lower prices goods?

 

[DIVISION]

I'll believe that when hell freezes over.

I have to work twice as long to make the same salary i did yrs ago.

The fun has left the job.

It has shown in your posts for the last few months, Gary.....




DIV

 

[jerseyart]

We are the net recipients and benefit from "outsourcing" by other countries to the US.

Just like all those Americans who work in Toyata, Honda, Mitsubishi plants etc.


Dont buy this outsourcing lie bors. It just makes you look silly

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

I know that we, as consumers, always want to get things for the lowest price possible. I sure as hell do anyway.

This is why no one but no one has sales like Wal Mart.

But what happens to the people that don't have the skill to handle the new jobs that are supposedly being created? Is a guy that's 10 years away from retirement supposed to go back to school and learn a new skill, all while losing money?

A sad story, but what do you propose? What did we tell the carriage makers when the autos showed up? Probably too fuckin bad, no?

To me it just seems that you don't bite the hand that feeds you. The workers help build the company so the owners and stockholders profit. They've given into the company, and without them, there would be no profit. To give them the big "fuck you" and send their job overseas, to me, seems unethical.

here we diverge in opinions.

Workers don't "give into" the company - they work in exchange for a salary. They trade their time and skills for money, it is not given.

Without them there might "be no profits", but without business, there would "be no workers". It is a realtionship defined by mutual voluntary agreement.

Yes, all that helped build the country, and no, there's nothing we can do to change it, but I still don't see how this is going to be good for everyone. If you can't bring in the income you need to spend and put it back into the economy, what good is lower prices goods?

What do you propose? These are not legislative ideas killing jobs, these are market realities driven by consumer demand.

What do you do in this situation? How do you deal with it?

 

[r.gotti]

2 1/2 years of unemployment sweet.

 

[nycgirl]

nycgirl - IIRC, less than 1% of our workforce is involved in agriculture. I know not every plant has left the US and there's some that will probably never leave. The thing that makes me scratch my head is how many "service" jobs are we going to have? How many services are out there now that we need more people for? With the way technology is moving, it seems like 1 person can do the job that it took 5 or 10 people to do just a decade ago, yet the population is still expanding. It just seems like a bomb waiting to explode, and yeah, it kind of has me worried at the moment because I'm still in college and I'm not all that young anymore. By the time I finish up with my BA I'll be almost 30 and I still have a family to support and I'm going to want to go on to grad school.

Yes, it has me worried. People graduating college with a Bachelors and they can't find a decent job and have loans to pay back, sometimes having to move back home because they can't support themselves at first. I don't have that luxury, I have to support my family and I really don't want to have to go back to a shit job to do so.

I understand. I left college in debt and chose a job in the legal field (No, I'm not a cop or an attorney) practicing a specific type of law that pays well. Now I'm in grad school getting my MBA because I see a trend in my field that doesn't look good years down the line and plus I want to make more money. There is a need for "service" type jobs. The key is to look at the population, trends, etc. and use them to your advantage. For example, with baby boomers about to retire and/or the potential abolishment of Social Security, there will be a need for Financial/Investment analysts.

Unfortunately, the job market is going to become a bigger rat race. Survival of the fittest. I'm only in my first year of grad school and I'm already planning my next move re: what do I do after I get a job (hopefully!!), how can I stay one step ahead of the game.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

I understand. I left college in debt and chose a job in the legal field (No, I'm not a cop or an attorney) in a specific type of law that I knew pays well. Now I'm in grad school getting my MBA because I see a trend in my field that doesn't look good years down the line and plus I want to make more money. There is a need for "service" type jobs. The key is to look at the population, trends, etc. and use them to your advantage. For example, with baby boomers about to retire and/or the potential abolishment of Social Security, there will be a need for Financial/Investment analysts.

Unfortunately, the job market is going to become a bigger rat race. Survival of the fittest. I'm only in my first year of grad school and I'm already planning my next move re: what do I do after I get a job (hopefully!!), how can I stay one step ahead of the game.

job market has always been a rat race, MBA is a rat race degree, you can compete with 1000000000 other people, and the demand for education is getting more strenuous. Meanwhile, car salesman with no college are making more money than many with grad degrees.

today's MBA is 1980's BA. That's a damn shame in a way, a good thing in another way. It means markets are getting more sophisticated and more knowledge is required to compete. Sadly, knowledge is expensive in time or money.

Now a lot of top finance firms want people with PhD's in economics. It's a tough market - today's PhD in economics is 1980's MBA.

And so on. Good thing I cornered the market on jambalaya distribution.

 

[CFZB]

 

[nycgirl]

job market has always been a rat race, MBA is a rat race degree, you can compete with 1000000000 other people, and the demand for education is getting more strenuous. Meanwhile, car salesman with no college are making more money than many with grad degrees.

today's MBA is 1980's BA. That's a damn shame in a way, a good thing in another way. It means markets are getting more sophisticated and more knowledge is required to compete. Sadly, knowledge is expensive in time or money.

Now a lot of top finance firms want people with PhD's in economics. It's a tough market - today's PhD in economics is 1980's MBA.

And so on. Good thing I cornered the market on jambalaya distribution.

I agree. The MBA is temporary, something to do for the next 2 years. Something to get me a better paying job, so I can focus on my dream of becoming a lawyer, or as you say a leech . Unfortunately, a B.A/B.S is the equivalent of a high school diploma. In a way, that is a good thing. Hence, why it is necessary to always stay on top of things and continue your education.