Got my blood work results back.

[Dr. JK]

In Jan of this year I went to get some blood work done. I was coming off a 9 month cycle and wanted to know how bad was my body in.

Well several liver values were high and test (LH, FSH) was below normal. I screwed myself up playing around with daily shots of HCG and suppressed my HPTA.

I was scared of the liver values because the doc was saying the results are showing not liver stress but LIVER DAMAGE.

Last week after being clean since Jan, I went and got a check up. Everything was OK, including liver, which means it recovered on it's own.

I think getting blood work done before and after a cycle is the right way to go. No matter how bad/good you think your body is, it's always better to know then not to know.

I hope my story encouraged someone to get the blood work.

 

[Mr. Black]

Just curious whats your test levels at now?

 

[psychedout]

What did you oral usage consists of? Did you use liver protectants?

 

[muscleup]

Just curious whats your test levels at now?

Bump

 

[liquidmuscle]

^

 

[Fonz]

In Jan of this year I went to get some blood work done. I was coming off a 9 month cycle and wanted to know how bad was my body in.

Well several liver values were high and test (LH, FSH) was below normal. I screwed myself up playing around with daily shots of HCG and suppressed my HPTA.

I was scared of the liver values because the doc was saying the results are showing not liver stress but LIVER DAMAGE.

Last week after being clean since Jan, I went and got a check up. Everything was OK, including liver, which means it recovered on it's own.

I think getting blood work done before and after a cycle is the right way to go. No matter how bad/good you think your body is, it's always better to know then not to know.

I hope my story encouraged someone to get the blood work.

Liver damage can easily be reveresed with the right supplementation. LIver stress just means high enzymatic activity in the liver above normal.

What where your numbers?

Btw, Even if the liver is 75% damaged, it can heal itself back up to 100%

 

[Dr. JK]

I will pick up my results on Saturday. At this time all I know is what the doc's secretary told me, i.e. everything is OK. I will let you know the before & after values when I pick them up.

What do you guys use for liver protection? I didn't use anything, but did not do any orals, but a lot of winny & fina.

My concern over liver damage was that I had contracted hep C, which the doc brought up. There were 2 main liver values very high, but not sky high. I will post some more when I actually get the results.

 

[muscleup]

yes please post them

 

[GoldenDelicious]

"liver stress" and "liver damage" are often separated by arbitrary lines. one doctor will call something stress while another will say it is damage. no need to freak out. (although i am interested in which readings came back to make your doc say that). the fact that your enzymes came back normal this time round is great, but unless you have a scan or ultrasound there isnt too much that can be deduced from the info you have given

oh and liver damage is not easily reversed. usually the term "damage" denotes some form of irreversible harm- cell death, fatty deposition, scar formation...that sort of thing. look after your liver guys, you only have 1. transplants are not nice.

fonz you should know better than to be so blase about something as severe as liver damage.

 

[Dr. JK]

"liver stress" and "liver damage" are often separated by arbitrary lines. one doctor will call something stress while another will say it is damage. no need to freak out. (although i am interested in which readings came back to make your doc say that). the fact that your enzymes came back normal this time round is great, but unless you have a scan or ultrasound there isnt too much that can be deduced from the info you have given

oh and liver damage is not easily reversed. usually the term "damage" denotes some form of irreversible harm- cell death, fatty deposition, scar formation...that sort of thing. look after your liver guys, you only have 1. transplants are not nice.

fonz you should know better than to be so blase about something as severe as liver damage.

There were 2 enzymes which were high. The doc the fact that both were high it concerned him over liver damage. If the one was out only then that would indicate liver stress and not liver damage.

The doc also said the liver can revivie itself, BUT if I have a condition which is constantly stressing the liver and causing liver damage, such as hep C, then that is a more dangerous situation because there would be that constant stress and no chance for the liver to recover.

 

[tholdren]

A nine month cycle? Jesus, man, you are hardcore.

The elevated liver enzymes were likely AST (aspartate aminotransferase) and ALT (alanine aminotransferase). These are enzymes that are found inside hepatocytes (liver cells) and only get released when the cells are ruptured (ie. liver damage).

The other people were right regarding your liver, you probably have done some long term damage in terms of scarring etc. of your liver. However, the liver is very resilient, much more than almost any other organ in the body. If you are responsible about your aas use in the future, then it shouldn't be a big problem.

The main thing scarring can lead to is cirrhosis of the liver, which means the liver is too scarred to function properly. Then, your body can't filter out toxins and you run into myriad problems which will affect you for the rest of your shortened life.

A nine-month cycle of hepatotoxic drugs (winny, fina) I think is excessive, but if you are prepared to do that type of thing, it would be worthwhile to have some bloodwork done at regular intervals during your cycle, not just at the end. That way, you can make an educated decision as to whether or not the benefits outweigh the risks as you progress on your cycle.....or marathon.....whichever term you prefer, ha ha.

Hope this helps.

 

[Dr. JK]

A nine month cycle? Jesus, man, you are hardcore.

The elevated liver enzymes were likely AST (aspartate aminotransferase) and ALT (alanine aminotransferase). These are enzymes that are found inside hepatocytes (liver cells) and only get released when the cells are ruptured (ie. liver damage).

The other people were right regarding your liver, you probably have done some long term damage in terms of scarring etc. of your liver. However, the liver is very resilient, much more than almost any other organ in the body. If you are responsible about your aas use in the future, then it shouldn't be a big problem.

The main thing scarring can lead to is cirrhosis of the liver, which means the liver is too scarred to function properly. Then, your body can't filter out toxins and you run into myriad problems which will affect you for the rest of your shortened life.

A nine-month cycle of hepatotoxic drugs (winny, fina) I think is excessive, but if you are prepared to do that type of thing, it would be worthwhile to have some bloodwork done at regular intervals during your cycle, not just at the end. That way, you can make an educated decision as to whether or not the benefits outweigh the risks as you progress on your cycle.....or marathon.....whichever term you prefer, ha ha.

Hope this helps.

When I did the original blood work I was still ON fina. I immediately stopped.
If what you say is correct (liver damage), then the enzyme values related to liver damage should still be high, unless the liver repaired itself during the OFF period of 3 months.

Please elaborate on the liver damage and scarring

Thanks

 

[tholdren]

Hey,

Well, the liver enzymes are indicative of 'active' injury to the liver. That is, liver cells are still being broken down by the stress of trying to detoxify the aas.

After the toxic agent is removed, there is a lot of damage done to the liver cells. A lot of them have been destroyed by the toxic agent.

The liver has great regenerative abilities, but it isn't perfect, it replaces most of the destroyed cells, but scar tissue gets laid down as well. This scar tissue is permanent, and doesn't go away.

Over years and years of toxic stress, and regenerative attempts by the liver, enough scar tissue accumulates so that the liver can't perform its work properly. This is called cirrhosis. This disease is very common in alcoholics (alcohol stresses the liver tremendously, and they drink every day!)

A good analogy would be to look at your skin. Your skin can take a lot of punishment, and regenerates quite well. However, if you repeatedly cut or burn your skin over years and years, scar tissue will accumulate, and doesn't really go away.

I really don't think you have much to worry about, and you almost certainly don't have cirrhosis. However, I think you should be more vigilant in terms of getting your blood work done at regular intervals if you are going to do cycles for that long.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

it sounds like your doctor has just run standard blood tests, and all youre going to get out of thsoe test results is a snapshot of what your liver was doing at that particular time.

to accurately assess 'damage' (by damage i mean permanent changes to the organ as a whole (ie scar formation) or irreversible cell loss) as opposed to a little stress, your doc would have to order some more definitive tests, some of which would involve giving you a certain compound and then measuring how well your liver deals with that compound, or it might be a scan/ultrasound. honestly we could all blab here for a while about this or that test, but really, unless it is actively investigated by a doctor i wouldnt worry about it too much, especially since it has normalised.

worst case scenario for you is that you ahve killed some cells or layed down some scar tissue, or fatty deposits. can you do anything abou them? no. is your liver still functional? yes. as long as you arent planning on repeatedly insulting your liver with more drugs (ie new planned cycle) i would chill out

if you are, however, it is probably a good idea to go get checked out for no other reason but to have something to measure future dramas against

cheers mate

by the way there is an absolute shitload of info on the web about liver toxicity and all that. if anything, do a google and try to find liver function tests and how to interperet them. there are a lot of textbooks for students which are perfect for the layman- enough info to be complete, but not so jargonised/convoluted as to be useless

cheers