Got beat in a race today!

[OXANDRIN]

Damn!

i bet this guy who was a former special forces soldier in the marines i could beat him in a sprint race. down to the end of the basketball court and back. he got me by a stride.

i lost it going into the baseline i touched the line and slipped and he got ahead of me and i couldn't catch him.


he wants to bet 100 bucks on a 1/4 mile race. i think i have an advantage because i run 20-30 miles a week.

how would you train for a 1/4 mile race?

 

[Lestat]

To train for the 400 you want to do mostly speed work.

1 day a week do 12 x 400

1 day a week do 15 x 200 and 10 x 100

other then that just do easy jogging and what not.

 

[OXANDRIN]

so that is 12 1/4 miles runs on 1 day....how much rest between them?

and how much rest on the 200's and 100's?

 

[Bullit]

The smart money is on him.

 

[OXANDRIN]

The smart money is on him.

he won't race me for distance cause he knows i can run a 5 minute mile.

 

[Lestat]

so that is 12 1/4 miles runs on 1 day....how much rest between them?

and how much rest on the 200's and 100's?

Yes, its 12 1/4 mile runs in one day.

Shoot to run each of them in 90 seconds or less and to rest for 90-120 seconds inbetween.

By rest I mean a SLOW SLOW job, don't stop moving though.


For the 200's and 100's... do a slow 100m job between them.. try not to take more then 90 seconds.

 

[NoDaddyNo]

1) if you are racing soon, then don't bother with speedwork - if you are racing a few months from now - then speedwork will work.

2) 12x400's is excessive. 8 is plenty. 5 even would be okay.

Do equal distance rest - do the speed for your distance and then jog the equal distance.
Works for 400, 200, and 100.

Form drills would help too.

If you have a strong kick, sit on his shoulder and let him do all the work of the race until you get to the distance where you know you can walk away from him.

If your kick sucks, then you will want to go out fairly strong into the first 100, speed up on the straight away, then go all out for the last 200.
Practice it in your speedwork.

How much does he weigh and what workouts does he do? How much do you weigh and do you only do distance runs?

 

[OXANDRIN]

yea... the race is whenever.... i guess i can put it off for 6 weeks. he weighs about 195 and is 6'1 i'm about 175 and 5'11

i see him doing sprints at the high school football field next to the gym. i know he does them 2x a week. he doesn't run distance anymore cause he thinks it hurts his muscle mass

i run about 5 days a week. i usually do:

- 1 long run ( 8 miles) at a slow pace 7.5-8.0 mph

- 2-3 (5 mile runs) building speed from 7.5 up to 10.0

- 1-2 days outside (3.2 miles) i try to run it in less than 19 mins

 

[Dial_tone]

You'll want to do some overdistance runs, like 500 meters. perhaps 300's at a pace faster than you'll race and 500's at a pace slower than you'll.
You don't have to run a 46 sec 400; all you have to do is beat him. I have a good kick so I'd let him lead the whole way and gamble on a last kick coming out of the last turn. Since you have endurance you'll want to lead the whole way at a high pace and take his sprint away from him.

 

[OXANDRIN]

this all started when he thought he could do more pull ups than me.... i showed him up in front of about 20 people at the gym.

after than he owned me in push ups and we go back and forth.

and tonight the basketball court sprint....

overall i'm only down 20 bucs but we're uping the stakes

 

[NoDaddyNo]

in college we did Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Saturdays as speedwork. Once the season started, Saturdays were races - so if you did 3 or 4 races in a day, you were still getting in an "easy" day of speedwork.

If you are on gear, you can do more intense shit, or throw in another day.
If you aren't, then you don't want to do more than 3 days of speed.
No need to waste a day on tempo runs for that distance - so just all speedwork.

Drills help a ton, but I don't know how long those take to set in since they are not a muscle building thing but a neurokinetic thing.

I had a nice easy run today and it looks like I'm finally getting closer back to my decent shape - just need to get in the speedwork myself.

The 400 is just barely to the point where a really good sprinter has a shot - but it has that aerobic edge to it - assume that he doesn't have the aerobic capacity since he doesn't train for it and go out hard and hope that he follows and blows out fast.
Otherwise, hope that your lead ahead is better than his ability to kick.

 

[OXANDRIN]

how would you taper up to the race?

 

[Lestat]

My 12 x 400 workout suggestion is because he says he runs 20-30 a week. That is some pretty serious distance and a 3 mile speed workout is just about right.

the 12 x 400 is a great workout for middle distance on up. I used it to build speed in my 3 and 4 miles races.

Two speedwork days a week will do you just fine, especially if you have 6 weeks to train.

 

[NoDaddyNo]

We did 70+ miles a week and still never did 12x400.
But then, I was never a 400 runner in college, I did more distance and steeple, and was sick a lot (in track - did fairly well in xc though).

Can always build up and see what feels right to you - you shouldn't really walk away from a speed work day feeling dead - you will walk away from any given run fealing beat, but you will recover and go again - at the end of the workout you should feel energized, but not as if you could keep going.
It is a hard feeling to gague I guess.

As for tapering, I personally wouldn't do any speedwork the week before the race and just do strides on the speed days and shorten up the distance runs (or reduce the intensity).

As for whether Lestat or I am right on the training, probably doesn't matter a whole lot - this sort of thing is going to be a lot of genetics with such little amount of time to train.

 

[jackangel]

i don't think the 20-30 mpw you run will offer much (if any) advantage in a 400, because most of it is aerobic work done at a (relatively) slow pace.

along with your natural speed, the ability to push your muscles in the presence of lactic acid will determine how well you can maintain throughout the distance. since he already sprints regularly, he seems to have that to his advantage.

if it were an 800, that would make a significant difference, i think. since it transitions between sprinting and middle distance, your mileage will help you out more, and your opponent might still be willing to run it because it's short enough and close to all-out effort.

do you know what kind of sprint training he does?

 

[OXANDRIN]

do you know what kind of sprint training he does?

he does 4 x 400's

then he does suicides on the football field.

goal line to 50 back to the goal line to the 40 and so on.

does that 3x

thats all he did the day i went down to the track with him

 

[vansmack2000]

this all started when he thought he could do more pull ups than me.... i showed him up in front of about 20 people at the gym.

after than he owned me in push ups and we go back and forth.

and tonight the basketball court sprint....

overall i'm only down 20 bucs but we're uping the stakes

how many pull ups did each one of you do?
What about chin ups (palms out i guess), you do that one yet?

 

[NoDaddyNo]

If Tiger88 were around, you could ask him what to train. If he is real, he has said he is quite fast in the 400.

 

[OXANDRIN]

how many pull ups did each one of you do?
What about chin ups (palms out i guess), you do that one yet?

we did pull-ups (palms face away from the body)..... i did 22 which is not my best. i used to be able to do 30 or more, he did 19

 

[Lestat]

I ran a decent 400... sub 5 min mile.. 10 something 2 mile... so one.. I was decent, but not a superstar.

I do know quite a bit about training. I let myself go for years and then got back into it... it was during that period, where I had to train myself, that I really looked at what worked and what didn't.. I was able to get myself into competative shape and places in serveral local road races.

I stand by the 12 x 400 workout. Its a great mix of speed and stamina. It takes someone who is strong all around to do it well. They key is being consistant. Run them all at 90 seconds. Don't go out and burn the first 3-4... then slack for the last couple.. do the last one a second or two faster then your first and you know you've beaten it.

 

[NoDaddyNo]

90 seconds for a 400! That is like a tempo run, but for one lap at a time.

I hear you on trying to get back into shape - I have a 10K this January, I will then what sort of shape I am in, and then I have a half marathon in May.
I know I can win that race, but I don't think I can do it this year - but will definitely come in top 5.

Tiger88 wrote that he ran a 46 or 47 400, don't recall which - that is fast.
I never got under 54 I don't think.

The Marine sounds like he is currently doing pretty good workouts - this race is probably going to favor him.

 

[Lestat]

90 seconds for a 400! That is like a tempo run, but for one lap at a time.

I hear you on trying to get back into shape - I have a 10K this January, I will then what sort of shape I am in, and then I have a half marathon in May.
I know I can win that race, but I don't think I can do it this year - but will definitely come in top 5.

Tiger88 wrote that he ran a 46 or 47 400, don't recall which - that is fast.
I never got under 54 I don't think.

The Marine sounds like he is currently doing pretty good workouts - this race is probably going to favor him.

Well shit, if 90 secs is to slow you can adjust that any way you need, I think in my top form (in 1993) I was doing them at 75 seconds. I typically assume that most non-competative runners are no where near that, but maybe I shouldn't assume.

Good luck on your races.

I ran the La Jolla Half Marathon a few years ago. The results are online all over the place... let me see if I can find my time..

1:42::37 was my gun time, There were thousands in the race so my chip time was 1-2 minutes faster then that but I don't remember it now. Keep in mind this was 2001 and I had put on significant weight through my new hobby, weight training.