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glutamine enriched protein
- Thread starter emmab
- Start date
Actually while whey is an excellent source of BCAA's, it is a poor source of glutamine. I prefer to take my glutamine separately, on an empty stomach. Glutamine may be the superman of amino acids, but it sucks at competing with other aminos for absorbtion. Glutamine Peptides are suposed to be much better absorbed with other aminos than free form L-glutamine, so if you dont want to take powder on an empty stomach, you may look for products that contain these.
The glutamine in whey may also be listed as glutamic acid...it's essentially the same thing.
The reason why whey protein was added to the Life Extension Foundation's required supplements list was a result of the high amount of glutamic acid/glutamine levels--which is a glutathione precursor capable of modulation of free radicals.
I am not sure exactly if there are other protein sources higher in glutamine/glutamic acid...there very well may be. However, the issue may be a matter of how the whey protein was isolated...which may be the cause of your particular brand of whey protein being lower in glutamine/glutamic acid.
take care.
The reason why whey protein was added to the Life Extension Foundation's required supplements list was a result of the high amount of glutamic acid/glutamine levels--which is a glutathione precursor capable of modulation of free radicals.
I am not sure exactly if there are other protein sources higher in glutamine/glutamic acid...there very well may be. However, the issue may be a matter of how the whey protein was isolated...which may be the cause of your particular brand of whey protein being lower in glutamine/glutamic acid.
take care.
Glutamine and glutamic acid are NOT the same thing. They are two completely different amino acids as bodyfx rightly said. I wouldn't however, agree with him when he says he takes in 60g of it a day. If you have too much of an amino acid in your stomache you can get diahorrea (sp?). 15 g daily is ideal. 5g before breakfast, 5g before or after training and 5g before bed. If you take it on an empty stomache (or as close to empty as you can get) then you can be sure that most of it will be absorbed.
Also, peptides are the better choice for taking it with whey protein.
Oh, and to answer your question: "is it really necessary?" - No. It is a supplement. Supplements only really work in conjuction with a perfect diet. Infact, only a few of them work at all!
Also, peptides are the better choice for taking it with whey protein.
Oh, and to answer your question: "is it really necessary?" - No. It is a supplement. Supplements only really work in conjuction with a perfect diet. Infact, only a few of them work at all!
Remember, I said "essentially". Although they are to some degree interchangeable, the rates of conversion of glutamine from glutamic acid are somewhat stable. For instance, if you have 15 grams of glutamic acid in your whey protein drink you can expect no less than half of that to be converted to glutamine. I understand fully that glutamine and glutamic acid are different aminos, however, you have to remember that we are discussing functional differences that are fully evident in the laboratory NOT in the human body. Yes, while they are technically different chemically, they can contribute to the formation of each other to such an extent that diffrentiation physiologically is not that crucial.
Here are some of my references:
"glutamic acid forms the important amino acid glutamine." http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/aminoacids/pages/glutamicacid.html
"The carboxylic group can lose a proton, as well as the amine group. Glutamic acid side chain also has a carboxylic group that can lose its proton." (This supports the notion that it can convert to glutamine) http://math.smith.edu/~amino/glutamic/glutamic.html
"Glutamine is not an essential amino acid, as it is a derivative of Glutamic Acid." http://www2.kenyon.edu/depts/biology/courses/biol63/amino_acids/glutamine.html
If anyone needs textbook verification I can present that as well.
Take care
Here are some of my references:
"glutamic acid forms the important amino acid glutamine." http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/aminoacids/pages/glutamicacid.html
"The carboxylic group can lose a proton, as well as the amine group. Glutamic acid side chain also has a carboxylic group that can lose its proton." (This supports the notion that it can convert to glutamine) http://math.smith.edu/~amino/glutamic/glutamic.html
"Glutamine is not an essential amino acid, as it is a derivative of Glutamic Acid." http://www2.kenyon.edu/depts/biology/courses/biol63/amino_acids/glutamine.html
If anyone needs textbook verification I can present that as well.
Take care
With all due respect to all.Real proof of the efficacy of any supplement is proven in the REAL world...not labs,not textbooks.Since I added glutamine peptides to my regimen(yes,up to 60 grams per day),my gains in size and strength have skyrocketed.Also,I never ever get sick anymore..not even a snifle.I have experimented with this supplement with most of my clients and never failed to achieve considerably more progress with them than when they don't use glutamine peptides.Any serious bodybuilder should use it,although you must find out for yourself what dose is best for your needs.
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wspwst
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wspwst
I agree. No dispute there.
I however, do not get greater results from peptides that I do with regular glutamine or from several whey shakes a day. I'm not disputing that peptides can be just as good or better for some people, just that even with an expensive brand of peptides I didn't notice a difference that would justify the change. Everyone gets their own results from different things, and that's a key thing to remember.
I hope you didn't interpret my post as a way of explaining some hoped-for result...rather I was explaining in my case why the glutamine in whey was enough to meet my needs. So in this case it was a means of using science to back up my real world experience.
Take care.
I however, do not get greater results from peptides that I do with regular glutamine or from several whey shakes a day. I'm not disputing that peptides can be just as good or better for some people, just that even with an expensive brand of peptides I didn't notice a difference that would justify the change. Everyone gets their own results from different things, and that's a key thing to remember.
I hope you didn't interpret my post as a way of explaining some hoped-for result...rather I was explaining in my case why the glutamine in whey was enough to meet my needs. So in this case it was a means of using science to back up my real world experience.
Take care.
TheBoogieMan
New member
There are numerous supplements sold that have glutamine added to them, and you can also find free-form L-glutamine. One word of caution though: An excessive intake of free-form L-Glutamine is not recommended if you have kidney or liver dysfunctions, such as cirrhosis or renal insufficiency. This is because supplementation with L-Glutamine under these conditions might lead to the accumulation of urea or ammonia. Also, L-Glutamine is only stable in a solution when heat sterilization techniques have not been employed.Glutamine is the amino acid in its free-form, which means it's in its whole food state, whenever you eat foods such as almonds and peanuts your ingesting glutamine amino acids. L-Glutamine is basically the same thing. Its glutamine in its free-form (whole food). The majority of supplement companies sell L-glutamine and tout it as the best form, which it is not.
Glutamic Acid is familiar if one turns over their container of protein powder and sees "glutamic acid". Why not glutamine instead of glutamic acid? "The reason is that the acid hydrolysis stage of the analysis converts the glutamine into glutamic acid, releasing ammonia. Thus the glutamic acid level actually represents the combined levels of glutamine and glutamic acid." (ref). One can figure out the amount of glutamine in the glutamic acid content fairly easy. In animal proteins such as whey, casein, milk, and egg proteins 50% is actually glutamine. In plant proteins such as soy, 80% is glutamine.
T
his is an excerpt from the Louisiana State University College of Medicine.
It has been suggested that glutamine is a powerful insulin secretagogue, meaning it boosts the output of insulin when consumed. This is both good and bad for the endurance athlete if that is the case. Because insulin is a very powerful anabolic hormone, increasing its levels during meals will ensure the transport of nutrients into muscle and other tissue cells. This may allow more glucose to be stored as glycogen; pump needed amino acids and certain ions into stressed muscle cells; stimulate protein, RNA and DNA synthesis; and inhibit glycogen and protein breakdown.
However, if it is true that glutamine is such a powerful insulin stimulator, consuming it before or during exercise could be problematic. A steep rise in insulin before or during exercise, as most of you know, will cause blood sugar levels to fluctuate substantially. This can cause hypoglycemia and prevent a proper supply of energy to the working muscles.Research has found that there is no rise in insulin after consuming a bolus of glutamine by itself (Varnier). But it has been shown that glutamine along with a carbohydrate meal does increase glycogen storage. For some unknown reason glutamine, much like insulin, triggers cells to take up glucose. It wasn't insulin that got me in trouble during that ride, it was glutamine itself. By some unknown mechanism, glutamine seems to cause an insulin-like shift of blood sugars and other substrates into body tissues. This makes glutamine a potentially valuable supplement for recovery and carbo loading. Glutamine is very safe, and there are no reports of toxic side effects from dietary supplementation of this amino acid. Most glutamine is extracted from beet protein. It doesn't taste bad either; glutamine has a rather bland, tasteless flavor to it. The problem with ingesting glutamine is the fact that it isn't very soluble in water. When you mix the stuff it tends to settle out at the bottom; it kind of looks like fine white sand at the bottom of your glass.One problem with glutamine and the reason why you will not find it in premixed beverages is that it breaks down into pyroglutamic acid and ammonia when it is in contact with moisture for a period of time. That means you shouldn¹t premix glutamine in a drink for later use. You should mix and drink it right away. It was once thought that ingested glutamine was almost completely metabolized by the gastrointestinal tract and very little reached circulation (Elia). However, there is now substantial evidence that food intake can influence plasma glutamine levels, and research has shown up to a 29% increase in plasma glutamine after a meal, especially one with a substantial protein content (Castell). Furthermore, when pure glutamine is ingested, its appearance in the plasma has been reported to be dose-related in nature the more you consume, the more that enters circulation.
However, remember that when a lot of glutamine enters circulation the liver is quick to scoop up those large quantities in an attempt normalize things. The liver then converts that glutamine to glucose and glycogen, alanine, and triglyceridesnot necessarily a bad thing in itself but you can do the same thing a lot more cheaply by simply taking in some carbohydrates. Instead, consume 2-5 grams of glutamine at a time three or four times a day spread out. That will allow the glutamine to go where it¹s supposed to the muscles.
???????
TB
Glutamic Acid is familiar if one turns over their container of protein powder and sees "glutamic acid". Why not glutamine instead of glutamic acid? "The reason is that the acid hydrolysis stage of the analysis converts the glutamine into glutamic acid, releasing ammonia. Thus the glutamic acid level actually represents the combined levels of glutamine and glutamic acid." (ref). One can figure out the amount of glutamine in the glutamic acid content fairly easy. In animal proteins such as whey, casein, milk, and egg proteins 50% is actually glutamine. In plant proteins such as soy, 80% is glutamine.
T
his is an excerpt from the Louisiana State University College of Medicine.
It has been suggested that glutamine is a powerful insulin secretagogue, meaning it boosts the output of insulin when consumed. This is both good and bad for the endurance athlete if that is the case. Because insulin is a very powerful anabolic hormone, increasing its levels during meals will ensure the transport of nutrients into muscle and other tissue cells. This may allow more glucose to be stored as glycogen; pump needed amino acids and certain ions into stressed muscle cells; stimulate protein, RNA and DNA synthesis; and inhibit glycogen and protein breakdown.
However, if it is true that glutamine is such a powerful insulin stimulator, consuming it before or during exercise could be problematic. A steep rise in insulin before or during exercise, as most of you know, will cause blood sugar levels to fluctuate substantially. This can cause hypoglycemia and prevent a proper supply of energy to the working muscles.Research has found that there is no rise in insulin after consuming a bolus of glutamine by itself (Varnier). But it has been shown that glutamine along with a carbohydrate meal does increase glycogen storage. For some unknown reason glutamine, much like insulin, triggers cells to take up glucose. It wasn't insulin that got me in trouble during that ride, it was glutamine itself. By some unknown mechanism, glutamine seems to cause an insulin-like shift of blood sugars and other substrates into body tissues. This makes glutamine a potentially valuable supplement for recovery and carbo loading. Glutamine is very safe, and there are no reports of toxic side effects from dietary supplementation of this amino acid. Most glutamine is extracted from beet protein. It doesn't taste bad either; glutamine has a rather bland, tasteless flavor to it. The problem with ingesting glutamine is the fact that it isn't very soluble in water. When you mix the stuff it tends to settle out at the bottom; it kind of looks like fine white sand at the bottom of your glass.One problem with glutamine and the reason why you will not find it in premixed beverages is that it breaks down into pyroglutamic acid and ammonia when it is in contact with moisture for a period of time. That means you shouldn¹t premix glutamine in a drink for later use. You should mix and drink it right away. It was once thought that ingested glutamine was almost completely metabolized by the gastrointestinal tract and very little reached circulation (Elia). However, there is now substantial evidence that food intake can influence plasma glutamine levels, and research has shown up to a 29% increase in plasma glutamine after a meal, especially one with a substantial protein content (Castell). Furthermore, when pure glutamine is ingested, its appearance in the plasma has been reported to be dose-related in nature the more you consume, the more that enters circulation.
However, remember that when a lot of glutamine enters circulation the liver is quick to scoop up those large quantities in an attempt normalize things. The liver then converts that glutamine to glucose and glycogen, alanine, and triglyceridesnot necessarily a bad thing in itself but you can do the same thing a lot more cheaply by simply taking in some carbohydrates. Instead, consume 2-5 grams of glutamine at a time three or four times a day spread out. That will allow the glutamine to go where it¹s supposed to the muscles.
???????
TB
Excellent post!
However, I would like to add to one statement that excessive glutamine can lead to exacerbation of kidney damage. Some of the kidney conditions in which excessive protein intake is of critical importance is in cases where kidney function is already altered. For instance, persons who have received chemotherapy involving cisplatinol should be on low protein diets. People with advanced stage renal failure secondary to multiple sclerosis, liver or blood disorders, or autoimmune diseases such as rheumatoid arthritis, lupus or scleroderma should also restrict protein intake. Of course many other diseases can necessitate strict intake of proteins.
However, in normal individuals, including those with only one kidney (normally functioning of course) sufficient water intake is directly proportional to proper filtration to cycle by-products and constituents of the urea cycle. So be sure to drink plenty of water when taking in excessive protein. I have found no problems in adding a couple of protein shakes a day in addition to 10-20 grams of glutamine.
Many of the studies concerning high protein diets using rat models was under conditions akin to a very high protein, low carbohydrate diet without additional water intake. I'm not sure if all the cases dealt with this factor but some of the ones I have examined closely had this faulty protocol.
Great post, Boogie
However, I would like to add to one statement that excessive glutamine can lead to exacerbation of kidney damage. Some of the kidney conditions in which excessive protein intake is of critical importance is in cases where kidney function is already altered. For instance, persons who have received chemotherapy involving cisplatinol should be on low protein diets. People with advanced stage renal failure secondary to multiple sclerosis, liver or blood disorders, or autoimmune diseases such as rheumatoid arthritis, lupus or scleroderma should also restrict protein intake. Of course many other diseases can necessitate strict intake of proteins.
However, in normal individuals, including those with only one kidney (normally functioning of course) sufficient water intake is directly proportional to proper filtration to cycle by-products and constituents of the urea cycle. So be sure to drink plenty of water when taking in excessive protein. I have found no problems in adding a couple of protein shakes a day in addition to 10-20 grams of glutamine.
Many of the studies concerning high protein diets using rat models was under conditions akin to a very high protein, low carbohydrate diet without additional water intake. I'm not sure if all the cases dealt with this factor but some of the ones I have examined closely had this faulty protocol.
Great post, Boogie
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