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Glucophage(Metformin) or ALA?
- Thread starter Krazykat
- Start date
JerseyDevil
New member
Glucophage(Metformin) has a serious side effect know as Lactic Acidosis which in most cases is fatal. However, Ive read studies where ALA has been used in place of Metformin (for those people with NIDDM - Non Insulin Dependant Diabetes Mellitus) with fantastic results. Stick with the ALA - diet correctly and you will be fine.
K
kronk
Guest
JerseyDevil said:
Very correct. Gas, bloating, swelling, liver issues all kinds of shit. Get r-ALA and you will be set.
K
kronk
Guest
Krazykat said:
Not really, r-ALA is just a better product than ALA. Thats pretty well known. However, even just plain ole ALA would be better than Glucophage.
K
kronk
Guest
sk* said:
In simple terms of the side effects. None with ALA or r-ALA, a slew, some that can be fatal with the other. Simple calculation for me anyway.
In terms of overall fatloss there are a lot of better options, and heck, I use r-ALA or ALA if I am bulking or cutting.
kronk said:
Gimme a break
Glucophage has no side effects aside from slight bloating and stomach discomfort during the first few days of use- lactic acidosis will only occur if you have malfunctioning kidneys or go wayyyy above the recommended dosage.Studies such as the one below support this:
A substantive amendment to this systematic review was last made on 27 February 2003. Cochrane reviews are regularly checked and updated if necessary.
Background: Metformin is an oral anti-hyperglycemic agent used in the treatment of type 2 diabetes mellitus. The results of the UK Prospective Diabetes Study indicate that metformin treatment is associated with a reduction in total mortality compared to other anti-hyperglycemic treatments. Metformin, however, is thought to increase the risk of lactic acidosis, and is considered to be contraindicated in many chronic hypoxemic conditions that may be associated with lactic acidosis, such as cardiovascular, renal, hepatic and pulmonary disease, and advancing age.
Objectives: To assess the incidence of fatal and nonfatal lactic acidosis with metformin use compared to placebo and other glucose-lowering treatments in patients with type 2 diabetes mellitus. A secondary objective was to evaluate the blood lactate levels for those on metformin treatment compared to placebo or non-metformin therapies.
Search strategy: A search was performed of the Cochrane Controlled Trials Register and the Database of Abstracts of Reviews of Effectiveness (up to 4/2000), Medline (up to 11/2000), Embase (up to 11/2000), Oldmedline, and Reactions (up to 5/2000), in order to identify all studies of metformin treatment from 1966 to November 2000. The Cumulated Index Medicus was used to search relevant articles from 1959 to 1965. The search was augmented by scanning references of identified articles, and by contacting principal investigators. Date of latest search: November 2000.
Selection criteria: Prospective trials in patients with type 2 diabetes that lasted longer than one month were included if they evaluated metformin, alone or in combination with other treatments, compared to placebo or any other glucose-lowering therapy. Observational cohort studies of metformin treatment lasting greater than one month were also included.
Data collection and analysis: Two reviewers independently selected trials to be included, assessed study quality and extracted data. The incidence of fatal and nonfatal lactic acidosis was recorded as cases per patient-years, for metformin treatment and for placebo or other treatments. The upper limit for the true incidence of cases in the metformin and non-metformin groups were calculated using Poisson statistics. In a second analysis lactate levels were measured as a net change from baseline or as mean treatment values (basal and stimulated by food or exercise) for treatment and comparison groups. The pooled results were recorded as a weighted mean difference (WMD) in mmol/L, using the fixed effects model for continuous data.
Main results: Pooled data from 176 comparative trials and cohort studies revealed no cases of fatal or nonfatal lactic acidosis in 35,619 patient-years of metformin use or in 30,002 patients-years in the non-metformin group. Using Poisson statistics with 95% confidence intervals the upper limit for the true incidence of metformin-associated lactic acidosis was 8.4 cases per 100,000 patient-years, and the upper limit for the true incidence of lactic acidosis in the non-metformin group was 9 cases per 100,000 patient-years. There was no difference in lactate levels, either as mean treatment levels or as a net change from baseline, for metformin compared to placebo or other non-biguanide therapies. The mean lactate levels were slightly lower for metformin treatment compared to phenformin (WMD -0.75 mmol/L, 95% CI -0.86 to -0.15).
Reviewers' conclusions: There is no evidence from prospective comparative trials or from observational cohort studies that metformin is associated with an increased risk of lactic acidosis, or with increased levels of lactate, compared to other anti-hyperglycemic treatments if prescribed under the study conditions, taking into account contra-indications.
Citation: Salpeter S, Greyber E, Pasternak G, Salpeter E. Risk of fatal and nonfatal lactic acidosis with metformin use in type 2 diabetes mellitus (Cochrane Review). In: The Cochrane Library, Issue 3, 2003. Oxford: Update Software.
Silent Method
New member
Considering many have successfully used the anti-diebetic drugs for the purposes of incresing anabolism and protein synthesis despite possible side effects, the question, if arguing between r-ALA and the anti-diebetic drugs in question, is which has the bigger pay off.
Silent Method
New member
What kind of condition were you in at the time? How did you use the drug? How was your diet and training?jboldman said:
JerseyDevil
New member
"Gimme a break Glucophage has no side effects aside from slight bloating and stomach discomfort during the first few days of use- lactic acidosis will only occur if you have malfunctioning kidneys or go wayyyy above the recommended dosage."
Yeah I guess you are right... no one on this board would go above the recommended dosages
Yeah I guess you are right... no one on this board would go above the recommended dosages
brotheriron
New member
Reccomended doses are nearly always bull. 30 years ago people said dont take more than 5 dbol a day, otherwise the sides are too great. Now people take ten a day as well as their usual gear.
Perhaps the only drug under used is HGH. Reccomended doeses are often 10-15iu per day, but bodybuilders tend to stay on the lower side of that.
I have used glucophage without any probs, at 1000mg per day. Didnt do anything noticable, so id say go with rALA, seems to work better.
Bro
Perhaps the only drug under used is HGH. Reccomended doeses are often 10-15iu per day, but bodybuilders tend to stay on the lower side of that.
I have used glucophage without any probs, at 1000mg per day. Didnt do anything noticable, so id say go with rALA, seems to work better.
Bro
Glucorell R is a much better product. As brotheriron says, it doesn't do anything noticable and R-ALA does.
Metformin may clear glucose for you and lower insulin levels, it may not. It has sides that are already mentioned in this thread.
There are no side effects with Glucorell R. It WILL clear your glucose and lower your insulin levels. If will help prevent the activation of cancer. It will recharge all other anti-oxidants in your body. I will cause liver cells to regenerate faster. It will slow the aging process in your skin. It causes the neurotransmitter in your brain to fire off quicker.
This gets even more lopsided but I will stop here.
Metformin may clear glucose for you and lower insulin levels, it may not. It has sides that are already mentioned in this thread.
There are no side effects with Glucorell R. It WILL clear your glucose and lower your insulin levels. If will help prevent the activation of cancer. It will recharge all other anti-oxidants in your body. I will cause liver cells to regenerate faster. It will slow the aging process in your skin. It causes the neurotransmitter in your brain to fire off quicker.
This gets even more lopsided but I will stop here.
ulter said:
Biased opinion? I think so
Metformin has no noticable side effects for me whatsoever. DO NOT EVEN BRING UP LACTIC ACIDOSIS, THAT IS NOT AN ISSUE for 99.9 percent of the population.
And yes - glucophage worked better in lowering blood glucose than r-ALA for myself, and I do monitor it on a regular basis.
JerseyDevil said:
Recommended dosages are 1700mg to 2550mg per day.
Used it when I lived in Europe.
Other than a rather bad metallic taste and awful upset stomach for about 3 hrs after taking it with food...........
Phenformin(Banned in the US), is MUCH better than Metformin. No gas or bloating and no metallic taste. Probably because its 8X more potent than metformin, and therefore you need far less.
Do a search for the "Biguanide" class of drugs in medline. It'll show up.
And lactic acidosis is EXTREMELY rare, and you need to have a compromised renal system or liver for it to occurr. Won't happen to a normal adult unless he drinks himself into oblivion while taking quite a lot of metformin at the same time.
Fonz
poantrex said:
Biased opinion? I think so
Metformin has no noticable side effects for me whatsoever. DO NOT EVEN BRING UP LACTIC ACIDOSIS, THAT IS NOT AN ISSUE for 99.9 percent of the population.
And yes - glucophage worked better in lowering blood glucose than r-ALA for myself, and I do monitor it on a regular basis.
I disagree.
Metformin did not come close to R-ALA/ALA in lowering blood glucose. And I was using a glucometer. Phenformin performed slightly better than ALA/R-ALA, but its almost impossible to get hold of the stuff in the US. Not to mention its banned.
Fonz
