Gear for cutting and gaining simultaneously

[diablo570]

Before I post my question, here is a little info on myself:
Age: 26
Height: 5'8"

Weight: 172lbs

BF%: 5% (I dont but it, I would guess more like 7%). It was taken several times in a row by a certified trainer but I really dont believe it is 5%.

Sex: Male

Exercise Activity: I workout Twice daily (11:00am, and 7:00pm) and run 1 mile then walk an addition 3 miles at once (2:30pm).

I have been on one cycle about 5 years ago (Testosterone enanthate, Reforvit-B (liquid), halotestin, clen. I got up to 202lbs but looked like shit (watery/bloated).
I have not taken any form of steroids (other than cholesterol in my food, lol) since then, I have been totally natural.

Here is my question:

What is the best cycle for cutting AND gaining muscle at the same time. My goal is to look as ripped as possible but not lose muscle (gain it). I DO NOT want the water/bloat, since that would defeat my ripped appearance goal.

What is the best stack for this type of cycle?
Also, what do you think of Halotestin and oral d-bol + an anti-estrogen followed by HCG?

I realize there are no injectables in my noted cycle, which is good


(Needles are a huge mess--have to hide them, bloody, need to find a private place to stick, hard to find needles) I DO NOT have a problem using them, since I have used pins a previously.

My diet currently includes TONS of grilled chicken breats (skinless, bonless, trimmed), TONS of salads, lower carbs, no sugar added foods, 100 grams of quality protein drink per day and throughout the day, fat burners (3X daily), L-Glutamine (morning, before and after workouts and after cardio).

THANK YOU for ANY advice!
This site is awsome!

 

[Hardcoregrowth]

If you are truly 7% then you dont really need to cut up

 

[diablo570]

I must have heard that a million times Hardcoregrowth, but I really do think I can lose more fat and add more muscle.

I would like to look as close as possible to competition ripped and I am by no means close.

If anyone knows how to post pics, I would post a few of my pics for a reference.

 

[Koivu_11]

trenbolone..... that's it.

 

[Gideon]

Anavar, however the price and lack of availability would turn many people off of it.

Tren and winny are harsher alternatives.

Keep in mind that what you eat dictates how much muscle you gain/fat you lose.

 

[bseemba2001]

I like Primo myslef. But I heard that D-bole works very well (I never tried tabs).

 

[speedy7]

You can get cut on a lot of different gear, all you have to do is watch how much of it you take and make sure you don't eat more calories than you need.

 

[magman1]

dbol, probably wouldnt be ur best option...just bc of the bloat must get...tren, maybe prop, and t3...that'd be nasty rite there

 

[Gideon]

dbol, probably wouldnt be ur best option...just bc of the bloat must get...tren, maybe prop, and t3...that'd be nasty rite there

T-3 sure as hell wouldnt help you gain anything.

 

[diablo570]

T-3 sure as hell wouldnt help you gain anything.

I had Cynomel (Mexican version) and used it for a little while, although I did not experience much of an effect. I used the appropriate amounts too.
I told my Doc that I was using it and he just about shit his pants. After talking with him and his assistant and reading more about the potential side effects of Cytomel (Cynomel) I decided to pitch the rest. It just wasnt worth the risks.


Thanks for the posts everyone, this really does help.

 

[diablo570]

Here is what I was deciding on going with for a cutting cycle while at the same time trying to add lean quality muscle with out the bloat:
PLEASE let me know what other gear you would change and what volums to use!!!!

D-bol. 400mg/wk (1-8)
Equipoise. 400mg/wk (1-12)
Winstrol: 400mg/wk (1-12)
Airidex @ 0.5mg/day for 1-12 OR is Nolvadex better for no gyno and no bloat???
Last few weeks. HCG and Clomid <---Please help me with WHEN I should take these and How much to take

Thanks for ANY and ALL infor, I really appreciate it!

 

[Dr. M]

My vote would be for:

EQ 400mg/week - for some solid gains minus the bloat.

Primobolan Depot 400mg/week - solid gains, no bloat.

Stay away from dbol if bloat is a problem.

Oral winny to about 50mg/day (however you like it); I'd say shoot it, but you said you want to minimize pins... You can shoot 400mg EQ on Tuesday, 400 primo on Friday, and that's only 2 injection times (instead of winny which is ED/EOD... might as well just eat it, right?)

Just my 2cc.

-M

 

[Fukkenshredded]

Dbol and winny at the same time for eight weeks at sub 7% bodyfat.

Or, you could just stick your face in a fan.

Get realistic here. If your stats are even close to what you say they are, you will never even need steroids for any reason.

However, I know better. I would say eat and lift. Hit a little test/winny, say 250mg/week prop and 50mg/day winny, plus all the ancillaries, no need for anything else.

 

[diablo570]

Dbol and winny at the same time for eight weeks at sub 7% bodyfat.

Or, you could just stick your face in a fan.

Get realistic here. If your stats are even close to what you say they are, you will never even need steroids for any reason.

However, I know better. I would say eat and lift. Hit a little test/winny, say 250mg/week prop and 50mg/day winny, plus all the ancillaries, no need for anything else.

Fukkenshredded, I dont understand what you mean by "Get realistic." My stats are as I wrote them and that is me in my avatar (for a reference).
What is so unrealistic about my cycle when I am at 5-7% BF and I want to gain more lean muscle mass???
Please explain further, the more info the better.

 

[Fukkenshredded]

Okay, here's the deal.

If you try to maintain a sub-6% bodyfat for too long, your body will suffer badly. Several reasons, but one of the chief concerns is your liver and kidneys.

Another is joint injury.

Then bruising.

See, 5% is no joke. I know, because I went there for a summer and got real real sick from staying on winnyy too long and stressing my body beyond any sensibility.

Winny and D-bol together for eight weeks is a bad idea, period. Just a bad idea.

You want to gain muscle and not gain fat? Just shoot trenbelone, say, 75mg/ed for twelve weeks and eat everything and lift hard.

If your natural bf% is below seven and you are already holding muscle (at 5'8", 172 at 5% is a LOT of muscle for natural), then you don't have to worry about gaining fat, period.

So why stress your liver at all? Why use winny at all? Sure, it will dry you out even further and get you to sub-5%, but then you will start pissing blood, bruising, and eventually you will get hepatitis. Too much dehydration and too little fat is a bad starting point for a long winny cycle, especially in conjunction with D-bol.

Okay, lots of guys here say no problem, right? Well, I'm 36 years old. I'm not a wannabee bodybuilder kid with an invincible attitude. Some 24 year old juicehead tells you to combine those drugs right out of the box, you need to ignore that and everything else that guy ever tells you.

The fact is, fina will do everything that a D-bol and winny combo will do, and then some, without the sides.

Everyone here thinks fina is harsher than winny and D-bol, but they are WRONG.

I get regular bloodwork, and not only that, six months of winny gave me hepatitis, whereas five months of tren just made me strong and lean.

I recommend a little test with it, about 250mg/week.

If you must use winny, use it with test only first. Now a winny/fina/test cycle is the cycle of the Gods, believe me, but I think its a bit much for your first time out. Shoot one drug, get a feel for what it does, then try another, and so on.

Just my two cents.

 

[animal69112]

first off, i'm sorry to hear about you having hepatits bro, especially from winny, but 6MONTHS ON WINNY?!?!?! what were you thinking???? i mean i havent even done my first cycle yet and wont for at least anothe 3-4 months, and I KNOW TAKING WINNY FOR LONGER THAN 6 WEEKS IS BAD, VERY VERY VERY BAD. 6 months bro, were you desperate? did you have a show you were competing for? is winny the only thing you could get?? just tell me WHY IN THE HELL WOULD YOU STAY ON WINNY FOR 6 months? did you get addicted to it???
not trying to flame you, just curious bro. no flame intended on this post, i just wanna know why the hell you did that?
i know i'm just a newbie, but what would be wrong with this cycle....
weeks 1-10 ..sust at 400mg/week
weeks 1-6.....winny at 50mg/ ED
weeks 6-10...anavar at 30mg/ED
clenbuterol along with post cycle recovery

 

[silver_shadow]

did u say u work out twice a day- cut that down to 3-4 times a wk! is that u in ur avatar- u look nice and cut to me- so y would u want to cut NOW?

 

[organic]

Only use testosterone itself, it would be the BEST choice!
In germany it's gaining more and more popularity. Winstrol and dbol, do not even think about use them!!!! They are one of the worst steroids!!

SO: TESTO alone or Oxandrolone (Anavar, Oxandrin)

Test will boost fatburning and musclegaining. Also it got the highest anticatabolic effect of all.

Test would be YOUR choice.

 

[diablo570]

Okay, here's the deal.

If you try to maintain a sub-6% bodyfat for too long, your body will suffer badly. Several reasons, but one of the chief concerns is your liver and kidneys.

Another is joint injury.

Then bruising.

See, 5% is no joke. I know, because I went there for a summer and got real real sick from staying on winnyy too long and stressing my body beyond any sensibility.

Winny and D-bol together for eight weeks is a bad idea, period. Just a bad idea.

You want to gain muscle and not gain fat? Just shoot trenbelone, say, 75mg/ed for twelve weeks and eat everything and lift hard.

If your natural bf% is below seven and you are already holding muscle (at 5'8", 172 at 5% is a LOT of muscle for natural), then you don't have to worry about gaining fat, period.

So why stress your liver at all? Why use winny at all? Sure, it will dry you out even further and get you to sub-5%, but then you will start pissing blood, bruising, and eventually you will get hepatitis. Too much dehydration and too little fat is a bad starting point for a long winny cycle, especially in conjunction with D-bol.

Okay, lots of guys here say no problem, right? Well, I'm 36 years old. I'm not a wannabee bodybuilder kid with an invincible attitude. Some 24 year old juicehead tells you to combine those drugs right out of the box, you need to ignore that and everything else that guy ever tells you.

The fact is, fina will do everything that a D-bol and winny combo will do, and then some, without the sides.

Everyone here thinks fina is harsher than winny and D-bol, but they are WRONG.

I get regular bloodwork, and not only that, six months of winny gave me hepatitis, whereas five months of tren just made me strong and lean.

I recommend a little test with it, about 250mg/week.

If you must use winny, use it with test only first. Now a winny/fina/test cycle is the cycle of the Gods, believe me, but I think its a bit much for your first time out. Shoot one drug, get a feel for what it does, then try another, and so on.

Just my two cents.

Now thats the kind of info Im talk'n bout! Thanks Fukkenshredded. I will take your advice seriously. I sure as hell will not sacrafice my health for an over the top cycle. Im not trying to do a crazy cycle, just an ideal one.
Good call on the D-bol and winnie (orals) gear. I hadent thought too much about the liver probs with all that akyl.
Could someone give me the different names for fina? There are so many names out there its hard to located the correct one. Some names are similar, so please give the complete gear name.

Thanks FS!

 

[diablo570]

did u say u work out twice a day- cut that down to 3-4 times a wk! is that u in ur avatar- u look nice and cut to me- so y would u want to cut NOW?

Yes: I do workout twice per day ( I f-ing love it!)
Yes: That is me in the avatar. I may look cut to others, but personally, I want striations all over and a nasty 6/8-pack.

If Im this cut naturally, imagine what I would look like on some gear. Also, My twice per day workouts have been helping me keep my muscle while I diet and I have added strength. I think the addition of gear would greatly increase my gains (obviously).

Thanks all

 

[diablo570]

My vote would be for:

EQ 400mg/week - for some solid gains minus the bloat.

Primobolan Depot 400mg/week - solid gains, no bloat.

Stay away from dbol if bloat is a problem.

Oral winny to about 50mg/day (however you like it); I'd say shoot it, but you said you want to minimize pins... You can shoot 400mg EQ on Tuesday, 400 primo on Friday, and that's only 2 injection times (instead of winny which is ED/EOD... might as well just eat it, right?)

Just my 2cc.

-M

Dr. M, thanks for the info. The only reason I did not choose Primobolan was due to the fact that it costs so much.
The equipoise and winni are really good and affordable. I will not use D-bol since I have gotten negative feedback on that for cutting and liver probs (if taking other orals).
Do you agree with taking a Testosteron along with this cycle?
Please advise the BEST testosterone (full name) <with minimal bloat, but I will be taking anti-E's and Arimidex so mabye bloat wont be a prob.> and @ what concentration.

 

[magman1]

def. forget the dbol! no good for you! and winny for 12 weeks is a little much especially for a first cycle...tren/test prop would be great IMO...nasty gains with minimal bloat!

 

[High-Jacked]

Diablo: You have a similar build to me, but you have a little more definition going on. I am 5'8" 185, I have done and would suggest running this cycle for a good muscle/vascualrity increase along with some good striation, I used enanthate but Propianate would be much better for staying lean:

Weeks 1- 12
Testosterone Propianate 130mg EOD (425 mg per week or so)
Equipoise at 400mg per week split in two shots, mon/thurs
NOlva 10mg ed to prevent any gyno issues
Arimidex at .5mg if you want to minimize bloat


I did notice that Nolva effected my gains if I went over 10mg per day, however 10mg didn't really seem to have a negatvie effect.

This is a fairly simple cycle but simple is better, don't rely on the gear, bust ass and keep your diet right on and you'll notice a nice aesthetical (sp?) change.

 

[Dr. M]

Dr. M, thanks for the info. The only reason I did not choose Primobolan was due to the fact that it costs so much.
The equipoise and winni are really good and affordable. I will not use D-bol since I have gotten negative feedback on that for cutting and liver probs (if taking other orals).
Do you agree with taking a Testosteron along with this cycle?
Please advise the BEST testosterone (full name) <with minimal bloat, but I will be taking anti-E's and Arimidex so mabye bloat wont be a prob.> and @ what concentration.

Hey man, that's what I'm here for.

I would personally throw in some test, as I feel that test is a proper base for any sort of mass cycle as long as it is managed properly.

To avoid bloat, I would shoot 50mgED of testosterone propionate. The injection site will probably hurt like a motha, but it's alright if you manage it properly. For example, you just trained legs and won't be training legs for a while - do a quad shot next time you shoot. Hitting your delts just before you do an arm workout is a bad idea with prop.

Another option is suspension (testosterone, no ester). This you may have to shoot once or twice a day at a 50mg dose; if you want to avoid ANY bloat at all, then susp is definitely for you. However, mentioning your complications regarding pins etc., susp may cause you more grief than it's worth.

Knowing a bit about your situation, I would say test propionate at 50mg ED is your best bet.

-M