Fundamental question

[stub]

Okay I've been messing around with a blood hormone level calculation program and found that with some 'typical' cylces that are used, hormone levels continue to rise over the course of the cycle.

For example if we take the cycle of 500mg enanthate/week for 8 weeks, blood levels go from around 400 mg in week 2 to over 800mg in week 8.

This would perhaps lend strength to the argument of front loading.

Again in our example, lets assume that we front load with 1500 mg and continue the 500 mg/week for weeks 2-8. This leads to a relatively stable blood test level of ~850 mg from week 3 through week 9 and then falling off to under 100 mg after week 14 or so.


Now to the point... is our assumption, that stable hormone levels are a good thing, correct? Or would gradually increasing hormone levels by design actually be better?

Stub

 

[hellorhih2o]

I don't think it's an either-or, I think both is true IHMO. Gradually increased hormone levels = a good thing. Stable hormone levels = a good thing. It just means that it takes a while to get to stable hormone levels. Front loading certainly should help getting results faster, BUT, you're also changing your body chemistry very quickly. I have to believe that you’re putting a fair amount of stress on your system when you do that. I’m not saying that I think it’s entirely bad, but there’s got to be a price for it.

 

[Andy13]

Good questions.

To clarify, when you inject 500mg for instance, the entire 500mg is not ACTIVE test.. ONly a little at a time becomes activated..

I'm an advocate of frontloading for the reasons you mentioned..

It seems intuitive to think that a gradual increase in hormone levels would be desirable, and that injecting 1500mg of test in 1-2 days is A LOT.

Now here's something to think about.. When you take and oral like dbol, your blood levels JUMP up to mid-cycle level after the first day. A hormone level increase like this is no different than having your TEST shot up to mid-cycle level by front loading.

I posted something on this recently.. Let me see if I can dig it up.

Andy

 

[Andy13]

Here.. See if this makes sence..

To most people, "kicking in" is when they get their biggest pumps in the gym.. For a given cycle, this occurs maximally when (total, accumulated) blood levels are obtained. Depending on the AAS, this can be a week or two (dbol, fina, etc..) to a month or more (test enanthate, deca)..

Now, after an injection, the RATE of steroid released/second is greatest immediately because the RATE is proportional to the size of the depot. Think about a bucket of water with a hole in the side. The more water in the bucket, the faster it flows through the hole. When the water level gets lower and lower, the rate that it flows through the hole gets slower and slower. This is exactly how an ester injection depot works, only the ester leaks out over time, is de-esterified (activated). Once the steroid is activated, it's half life is very short-- hours.

So, imagine a single injection, like a bucket of water. Before the bucket is empty, another injection- bucket of water is set beside it. So you have two depots, the first is still releasing and contributing to over-all (active) blood levels as is the second, only the latter is releasing at a faster rate, of course. Now you can see that the two injections together give rise to a greater over-all level of (activated) testosterone blood levels. After more and more injections are administered, the blood levels get higher and higher until they reach what can be thought of as MAX possible circulating blood levels of androgen for a given dose/week. Mathematically, there is no such MAX, per se, blood levels do keep climbing on a constant dose cycle, but at smaller and smaller amounts. When the constant dose cycle has reached this "leveling off" point, this is essentially the MAX blood levels for that dose.

Feeling the AAS "kick in" is psychological as well as physical.. If you could instantly jump your blood levels up to the MAX for, say, 1000mg/week testosterone enanthate, you would have the blood testosterone (active) levels that would be obtained after a good month of constant dosing. (This is a front load,)

But that doesn't mean you would FEEL the same as the guy who took 30 days to get there. The highly quantitative assey to detect "kicking in" of the AAS is feelin' the pump.. And this actually is not completely related to muscle growth. What I mean is that feeling a bigger pump than a week ago doesn't mean you're gaining more muscle than a week ago...

Does this make sence?

Andy

 

[hellorhih2o]

great post andy. makes a ton of sense. i still wonder though what it does to your system to very quickly increasy any hormone level like that (whether or not it's from orals or front loading).

 

[stub]

Yup makes good sense and thanks for the info Andy13.

I suppose we are all really just experimenting anyway so a gradual approach may be better for some and a front load might be better for someone else. For me I think I'll try the front load to keep the levels steady for as long as possible and measure the results from there to see if more AS is needed the next time.

Interestingly enough I'll be using Sust (something I have and I know is human grade). I've found by using this hormone calculator (man I hope this thing is accurate) that if I front load 3 amps up front, then 1 amp every 7 days, I can keep the test levels relatively stable for 7 or 8 weeks. Total amount currently 'active' (or out of the bucket Andy13 being ~325mg.

This is a 2nd cycle for me so I'll see how it works.

 

[Andy13]

Yup makes good sense and thanks for the info Andy13.

I suppose we are all really just experimenting anyway so a gradual approach may be better for some and a front load might be better for someone else. For me I think I'll try the front load to keep the levels steady for as long as possible and measure the results from there to see if more AS is needed the next time.

Interestingly enough I'll be using Sust (something I have and I know is human grade). I've found by using this hormone calculator (man I hope this thing is accurate) that if I front load 3 amps up front, then 1 amp every 7 days, I can keep the test levels relatively stable for 7 or 8 weeks. Total amount currently 'active' (or out of the bucket Andy13 being ~325mg.

This is a 2nd cycle for me so I'll see how it works.

Just to clarify, front loading does NOT result in any more (or less) stable blood levels during a cycle compared to straight dosing.. Front loading only serves to cut out the waiting period..

Stub- you realize that doing one amp/week is doing ONE AMP/WEEK. Front loading won't make blood levels higher during the cycle.

Andy