Full squat depth?

[HurricaneEddy]

How far do most of you go down when doing full squats? It seems when I go to the very bottom "in the pocket" my lower back seems to round a tad bit no matter how hard i try to keep an arch. It it biomechanically possible to get that low with a good arch? An help is appreciated for form, tips etc.


Eddy

 

[bignate73]

you may need to widen your stance if your back is rounding. when i sit in the pocket, if my feet are too far in, i could definitely see it round. but i widen my feet so i can sit between my legs a bit. it really depends on how you squat. i squat OLY and PL so my depths vary. with a PL squat, i hit just a tad below the top of my knee aligned with the crease in my hip, but my stance is wide! with an OLY squat, i go til i hit bottom and then come back up.

 

[HurricaneEddy]

Thanks Big Nate. I appreciate the help. I'm pretty sure I need to start widening my stance

 

[Scotsman]

I go as far down as I can(hamstrings on calves) with both PL squats and front squats. At the very bottom the lowest portion of the back will lose the arch do to the hips "rolling". That is fine as long as the rest of your back remains arches/tight. As long as you keep your shoulders back and chest out you should be ok.

Cheers,
Scotsman

 

[gjohnson5]

How far do most of you go down when doing full squats? It seems when I go to the very bottom "in the pocket" my lower back seems to round a tad bit no matter how hard i try to keep an arch. It it biomechanically possible to get that low with a good arch? An help is appreciated for form, tips etc.


Eddy

Legs should form a 90 degree angle at the knee

 

[wnt2bBeast]

Legs should form a 90 degree angle at the knee

thats only parallel..for some it will cause knee pain..
hurricane you asked about a "full" squat-a full squat is going all the way down like bignate and scots described..i think this is the best way to squat but theres nothing wrong with going to para just make sure your not doing knee jerks

 

[JohnRobHolmes]

i think the back rounding out is due to glute flexability. more flexable butt muscles will allow the back to stay straighter. my ass is really flexable, my hams are very tight. but, i can go down all the way (wide stance) without my back rounding at all.

 

[crew9]

thats only parallel..for some it will cause knee pain..

That's because the majority of stress is placed on the knee joint in that position. Granted squat stance will come into play with that as well. With a wider stance, going below parallel with shift the stress off the knees to the hips.

 

[bignate73]

btw, the hips tucking under is called nutation and is normal....

 

[coolcolj]

Work on your flexiblity and it won't round again

ISO RDL and Bulgarian SPlitsquat hold for 1min each - sorted and fast!

 

[JoBu]

The 90 degree angle thing is a common misconception...especially among health club personal trainer types. stopping at 90 degrees puts maximum stress on the knee joint. Going past parallel shifts the stress to the much more robust hip joint. While it can be dangerous to go too deep with heavy weight (if you can't keep the proper form and your back begins to round over), it is much safer for your knees. Using a wider stance will help keep the proper posture. You can also start doing good-mornings and back hyper-extensions to strengthen your lower back which will help your core.

Legs should form a 90 degree angle at the knee

 

[gjohnson5]

The 90 degree angle thing is a common misconception...especially among health club personal trainer types. stopping at 90 degrees puts maximum stress on the knee joint. Going past parallel shifts the stress to the much more robust hip joint. While it can be dangerous to go too deep with heavy weight (if you can't keep the proper form and your back begins to round over), it is much safer for your knees. Using a wider stance will help keep the proper posture. You can also start doing good-mornings and back hyper-extensions to strengthen your lower back which will help your core.

Not sure where you got that from.... I would like to know though
http://www.naturalphysiques.com/cms/index.php?itemid=42&catid=12
Dr Squat says parallel squatting is a requirement , but going below parallel is optional. As you stated If you form is a wide stand with feet placed outward , you are relieving stress from the knees.

 

[wnt2bBeast]

doc squat is a comp pl'er.. you only have to break para you dont need to go atf in a meet..

 

[MsBeverlyHills]

i understand a full squat to be where the bottom of the hamstrings make contact with the calves. Increasing your flexibility (stretching achilles) & elevating your heals on plates (i use 10s) also helps.

 

[JoBu]

Right...of course you can push more weight if you don't get deep in the hole (hence the preference for PL'ers to not go ATF). But if the question is which is safer form for the average bb'er I still say deeper is better...as far as the knees are concerned. I'd gladly shift stress from my knees to hips any day.

doc squat is a comp pl'er.. you only have to break para you dont need to go atf in a meet..

 

[gjohnson5]

Right...of course you can push more weight if you don't get deep in the hole (hence the preference for PL'ers to not go ATF). But if the question is which is safer form for the average bb'er I still say deeper is better...as far as the knees are concerned. I'd gladly shift stress from my knees to hips any day.

I'm still curious to your point as to how squatting 90degrees places stress on the knees. If you are squatting similar to sitting in a char or toilet , how does that place stress on your knees? The idea is for all the weight to be behind the knees so your hamstrings and glutes take the pressure of the weight and not your knees. Which should be what you want , the muscles to do the work and not joints?

I don't see any misconceptions here....
http://www.frsa.com/squatsform.html

 

[bignate73]

the point of 90 degrees is roughly the point where there is the most torque through the ROM. if you stop you increase the torque tremendously by not only stopping but reversing the weight at the point where the knee is under the most stress. since you are referring to a more PL style squat where the load is distributed across the hips more, that I can see. but for the average squatter their knees tend to hinge forward a bit on a squat and the quads take the brunt of the load in this case.

 

[JohnRobHolmes]

the way i see and feel it, when i stop at 90 degrees with the knees i have to flex the quads to reverse direction- just like bignate said. if i dip down a bit more my hips and ass can do all of the reversing, but its damn hard to get past that parallel point. my guess is that the parallel point is when the quads take over for the ass. quads pull across the knee, thus putting stress across the joint. reversing at parallel forces even more pressure across my precious knees.

however, if i get a really wide stance, i can avoid the knee pressure. but then again my ass is taking most of the load. do these pants make my butt look big?

 

[wnt2bBeast]

Right...of course you can push more weight if you don't get deep in the hole (hence the preference for PL'ers to not go ATF). But if the question is which is safer form for the average bb'er I still say deeper is better...as far as the knees are concerned. I'd gladly shift stress from my knees to hips any day.

its not a preference..it's whats required for the lift to count in a comp otherwise you get red lighted..the crease of your hips must get below your knee..you can measure that distance and do box squats with that height to insure youre breaking parallel..

 

[needsize]

I find that I have a tendency to lean forward at the bottom of the squat, I cant stop doing it even with no weight, so I'm fairly sure that my biomechanics dont give me any other choice. But the trade off for squatting rock bottom has given me monster quads, which is a trade I'll take any day

 

[gjohnson5]

I find that I have a tendency to lean forward at the bottom of the squat, I cant stop doing it even with no weight, so I'm fairly sure that my biomechanics dont give me any other choice. But the trade off for squatting rock bottom has given me monster quads, which is a trade I'll take any day

You and I both lean forward. This is why I like the "sit down" technique with a wide stance becaue I can feel the motion hitting hit quads , hams and glutes. After you go rock bottom in your workouts do you then do hack squats and leg presses? I think rock bottom is safer on a hack squat machine.

 

[needsize]

You and I both lean forward. This is why I like the "sit down" technique with a wide stance becaue I can feel the motion hitting hit quads , hams and glutes. After you go rock bottom in your workouts do you then do hack squats and leg presses? I think rock bottom is safer on a hack squat machine.

I cant go too wide on my stance as it brings the hips into play more, and I have bursitis in both hips, which can get brutally painful
After the rock bottom squats, I do leg presses then hacks, all the way down so that the racks hit the bottom on each rep. I think thats the secret for the way my quads have turned out
I have some squat vids in the training vids post up top where you can see my form

 

[JoBu]

I was talking about the "preference" to not go ATF when powerlifting...it isn't required and it's harder with a given weight so PL'ers don't do it.

its not a preference..it's whats required for the lift to count in a comp otherwise you get red lighted..the crease of your hips must get below your knee..you can measure that distance and do box squats with that height to insure youre breaking parallel..

 

[bignate73]

actually,i cant go ATF with a PL stance. my hips arent that flexible

 

[JohnRobHolmes]

whats the difference between normal and powerlifting stance?