Front-load and ED pinning

[artificialaspirations]

According to these calculators:

http://www.bulkmuscle.com/pct/index.php
http://www.steroidsource.net/calculator.htm

It appears that frontloading and everyday pinning of ANY injectible is optimal for getting blood concentrations of up to stable levels. I understand not wanting to pin ED but why is the front load not more common?

 

[eddymerckx]

you know, i run all the numbers myself and not too sure myself--good question.

 

[ryno9000]

I've wondered that too, especially with the longer acting aas like EQ and Deca. Seems like you'd want to front load but the consensus is no. I have never tried, but am kind of curious because on paper it just makes sense.

 

[sensational]

I've wondered that too, especially with the longer acting aas like EQ and Deca. Seems like you'd want to front load but the consensus is no. I have never tried, but am kind of curious because on paper it just makes sense.

At meso, we always condoned frontloading, and I don't know why we don't here.

 

[eddymerckx]

good thread
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/steroids-discussion-forum/frontloading-anyone-do-use-582298.html

and post by TDOVERITAS:
The theory is that steady state concentration (and therapeutic effect) will be reached faster. But this doesnt work for AAS. Why? BC steady state concentration is usually achieved after four half lives. The half life for long esters is days and weeks.

Assuming T1/2 of TestEnanthate is 10 days, then it won't be reached until 40 days. Also, of the several recognized pathways of action, the MAIN one we are interested in, the anabolic component of protein synthesis (transcrption/translation, etc.) takes a good two weeks to occur. No amount of loading dose is going to increase the speed of this process.

The loading dose = the volume of distribution x the desired concentration (i.e. the concentration at steady state).

If you run the numbers for a 500mg weekly dose:
Loading dose = usual maintenance dose / usual dosage interval x kel (t1/2/0.693). This comes out to about 1 gm.
But as explained above, you will get all the risk and none of the benefits.

It does work for faster acting compounds however, thus you may frontload with single esters or orals.

 

[killafx]

Wow thanks for this thread that calculator is amazing, although i had to change almost all the half-lifes except for prop for the sust250... they all wrong

 

[GUARDIAN]

even something as low as 250mg ew i will pin at least 2X.

i am still not a firm believer of front loading.

Here is a quote from a good bro todoveritas (PhD in biochemistry or some shit like that):

"The theory is that steady state concentration (and therapeutic effect) will be reached faster. But this doesnt work for AAS. Why? BC steady state concentration is usually achieved after four half lives. The half life for long esters is days and weeks.

Assuming T1/2 of TestEnanthate is 10 days, then it won't be reached until 40 days. Also, of the several recognized pathways of action, the MAIN one we are interested in, the anabolic component of protein synthesis (transcrption/translation, etc.) takes a good two weeks to occur. No amount of loading dose is going to increase the speed of this process.

The loading dose = the volume of distribution x the desired concentration (i.e. the concentration at steady state).

If you run the numbers for a 500mg weekly dose:
Loading dose = usual maintenance dose / usual dosage interval x kel (t1/2/0.693). This comes out to about 1 gm.
But as explained above, you will get all the risk and none of the benefits.

It does work for faster acting compounds however, thus you may frontload with single esters or orals."

 

[killafx]

nice one 8 and 20, darn now i dont know what to do with my Sus lol i am on my 3rd pin and havent really felt much yet..

 

[GUARDIAN]

nice one 8 and 20, darn now i dont know what to do with my Sus lol i am on my 3rd pin and havent really felt much yet..

how much sus and how often?

 

[eddymerckx]

even something as low as 250mg ew i will pin at least 2X.

i am still not a firm believer of front loading.

Here is a quote from a good bro todoveritas (PhD in biochemistry or some shit like that):

"The theory is that steady state concentration (and therapeutic effect) will be reached faster. But this doesnt work for AAS. Why? BC steady state concentration is usually achieved after four half lives. The half life for long esters is days and weeks.

Assuming T1/2 of TestEnanthate is 10 days, then it won't be reached until 40 days. Also, of the several recognized pathways of action, the MAIN one we are interested in, the anabolic component of protein synthesis (transcrption/translation, etc.) takes a good two weeks to occur. No amount of loading dose is going to increase the speed of this process.

The loading dose = the volume of distribution x the desired concentration (i.e. the concentration at steady state).

If you run the numbers for a 500mg weekly dose:
Loading dose = usual maintenance dose / usual dosage interval x kel (t1/2/0.693). This comes out to about 1 gm.
But as explained above, you will get all the risk and none of the benefits.

It does work for faster acting compounds however, thus you may frontload with single esters or orals."

i feel dittoed---not painful, though

 

[GUARDIAN]

i feel dittoed---not painful, though

i didnt even read that u had posted that ahead of me.

eddy saved the day

 

[needtogetaas]

According to these calculators:

http://www.bulkmuscle.com/pct/index.php
http://www.steroidsource.net/calculator.htm

It appears that frontloading and everyday pinning of ANY injectible is optimal for getting blood concentrations of up to stable levels. I understand not wanting to pin ED but why is the front load not more common?

I think its a wast of money,gear and time.

 

[eddymerckx]

i didnt even read that u had posted that ahead of me.

eddy saved the day

just proves great minds think alike

 

[needtogetaas]

nice one 8 and 20, darn now i dont know what to do with my Sus lol i am on my 3rd pin and havent really felt much yet..

I feel sust should be left up to the big boy cycles. people doing 750mg ew or more. Thats me thoughts