Fro. Prolactin, PR, Fina. Help with answers

[perfectspecimen]

ok, there seems to be many conflicting researches.

what would one recommend for a fina cycle if i am prone to fina gyno?

i am already using arimidex

choices are
ru-486
deprenyl
vitex
bromocriptine

or another suggestion

 

[manny78]

1) I did not say fina is a progesterone agonist, only that it binds to the progesterone receptor. There is some degree of crossreactivity between many steroidal hormones.

2) I agree. There are many compounds that stimulate prolactin release.

3) Prolactin induced gyno is common in patients taking drugs that lower dopamine levels. Prolactin and estrogen are thought to be the direct causes of gyno, not progesterone.

4) It is a free country. You can either believe the studies I cited or not.

The point of my post was to present a logical connection between progesterone, gyno, and prolactin. What is the point of your post?

yes its a free country but did you ever use RU-486 ? Theory is one thing, using something in real life is another one. I hear a lot of blablabla on this product as well as other but few people really know what it is. As far as I'm concerned I never got gyno from using RU-486......

 

[nandi12]

And I have never gotten gyno from AAS either, although many have. Like with AAS, gyno is a reported side effect of RU-486. Some may get gyno, others not.

I agree completely jboldman that what I am suggesting is speculation. Tren may very well not bind at all in humans to the progesterone receptor. My post was merely an attempt to construct a logical framework to discuss the relationships between prolactin, progesterone, and gyno, in response to a question posed on this thread. If it has stimulated thought and discussion on these topics then it has served its purpose.

You are also correct in stating that bromocriptine is used to treat hyperprolactinemia, which is the underlying cause of gynecomastia in many instances. In other cases, as your study points out, prolactin is not involved. As I remarked in an earlier post, gyno is caused by prolactin and/or estrogen. Prolactin levels are normal in many gyno patients and indeed these patients are treated with tamoxifen.

 

[frorider6]

So Golfer can get his thread made a sticky and I can't? Why? Am I not pretty enough? Are my parents not rich enough? Well, I don't need to go to your stupid prom!!!

Oh wait, sorry. Getting that confused with something else.

Good sticky

 

[Primal X]

Solution:
Use an anti-e with vitex? Most recommend nolvadex because it reduces igf-1, but has anyone ever tried vitex with arimidex? [/B]

Oh shit....that makes perfect since. I got gyno from my last fina/winny cycle. At first, my nips started to get puffy. (But they didn't itch or hurt). So I jumped the gun thinking the puffiness could become gyno and starting taking Vitex at 2 gram ED. Then a week after treating the puffy nipples with Vitex, I experienced a shit load of pain in my nipple area. Vitex elevated my estrogen levels and gave me estrogenic gyno!?! I'm getting some arimedex soon and will be the giunea pig and test if Vitex+Arimedex will eliminate fina gyno. I'll keep you posted!

 

[LONE_AZ]

I believe that it works more by inhibiting free circulating estrogen. It is well documented that an increase in progesterone will inhibit high estrogen levels. So it stands to reason that the mechanism behind some of its success is not inhibition of prolactin as suggested, but high estrogen as documented. I may be labeled a heretic, but that’s ok. There are a lot of misconceptions on the board. Unfortunately it appears that if you do not have over 1000 post no one seems to listen. I would venture to say that Vitex might be useful for people who have not managed their estrogen during a cycle. Therefore Vitex may be an option for those looking to help elevate symptoms related to high estrogen levels were Novaldex & Arimidex are ineffective for free circulating Estrogen.

For problems related to Prolactin Dosinex, Bromocriptine & Deprenly seem to be most effective in that order.

I will go out on a limb and say that Vitex is not recommend for elevated prolactin nor progesterone because it has progesterone like effects on the endocrine system. I would like to see some evidence to the contrary if anyone has any. I have three years of medical school under my belt so just because such and such says so will not cut it. Anyone care to present some evidence to contradict my statement.

 

[Golfer18--old]

So Golfer can get his thread made a sticky and I can't? Why? Am I not pretty enough? Are my parents not rich enough? Well, I don't need to go to your stupid prom!!!

Oh wait, sorry. Getting that confused with something else.

Good sticky

I did it for you Fro..........well and prefect specmien and myself.

 

[frorider6]

I believe that it works more by inhibiting free circulating estrogen. It is well documented that an increase in progesterone will inhibit high estrogen levels. So it stands to reason that the mechanism behind some of its success is not inhibition of prolactin as suggested, but high estrogen as documented. I may be labeled a heretic, but that’s ok. There are a lot of misconceptions on the board. Unfortunately it appears that if you do not have over 1000 post no one seems to listen. I would venture to say that Vitex might be useful for people who have not managed their estrogen during a cycle. Therefore Vitex may be an option for those looking to help elevate symptoms related to high estrogen levels were Novaldex & Arimidex are ineffective for free circulating Estrogen.

For problems related to Prolactin Dosinex, Bromocriptine & Deprenly seem to be most effective in that order.

I will go out on a limb and say that Vitex is not recommend for elevated prolactin nor progesterone because it has progesterone like effects on the endocrine system. I would like to see some evidence to the contrary if anyone has any. I have three years of medical school under my belt so just because such and such says so will not cut it. Anyone care to present some evidence to contradict my statement.

Alright doctor boy (meant in good humor), let's look at my particular case as an example and examine what might have happened and what to do to prevent future repeats.

As per the board, I started Fina at 75 mg ED. Within 5 days I had puffy sore nipples. I immediately stopped the Fina and started taking Vitex at 1500 mg ED. Within a couple of days, I started taking Nolvadex @ 30 mg ED. Within a week my nipples had returned to normal.

Right now, I am taking Fina @ 37.5 mg EOD, as well as Vitex @ 1500 mg ED and Nolvadex @ 30 mg ED. No symptoms. Could be any number of reasons: substantially lower dose of Fina, added Vitex, or added Nolvadex. However, I want to up the dose a bit, possibly to 50 or 75 mg EOD but don't want cow nipples.

What combination of things should I be taking to prevent my nips from blowing up? Vitex only? Nolvadex only? Or a combination like I'm already on?

 

[panerai]

[Plasma prolactin levels and pubertal gynecomastia]

[Article in German]

Butenandt O.

Twenty-three boys with pubertal gynecomastia had higher mean levels of prolactin than boys of similar development but without gynecomastia (10.1 vs. 6.2 ng/ml). In girls of comparable pubertal staging prolactin level was 12.3 ng/ml. In boys no hyperprolactinemia was found, not even after stimulation with TRH, prolactin levels were not elevated in two boys with secreting mammary glands. Therapy with bromocriptine stopped the secretion. During therapy, prolactin levels could not be raised by stimulation. The results contradict the hypothesis that prolactin is involved in the development of gynecomastia.

PMID: 6413841 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
------------------------------------------------------

[Prolactin secretion and gynecomastia]

[Article in Bulgarian]

Kumanov F.

Nine males with gynecomastia were examined. The serum levels of LH, FSH, prolactin, testosteron, estradiol were determined, in some of the patients--progesteron. A stimulation with thyreoliberin was carried out to follow up prolactin reaction. The same examinations were performed with a control group of healthy males. Contrary to the healthy subjects, the patients with gynecomastia had a significantly higher levels of FSH and progesteron and testosteron was reduced with statistical significance. The basal level of prolactin in the patients with gynecomastia was not significantly increased and no deviations in the parameters of prolactin reaction was observed after the stimulation by thyreoliberin. On the base of those results progesteron in the males with gynecomastia is admitted to be able to support the mammo--tropic effect of estrogens, together with the reduced androgens and the altered receptivity of the mammary glands. Prolactin is of no great importance for gynecomastia.

PMID: 6424337 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE

 

[panerai]

BTW, Trenbolone doesn't increase prolactin level, and it has to be proven, yet, that it has high affinity to PR in breast tissue.