Fro. Prolactin, PR, Fina. Help with answers

[panerai]

lots of info, few true answers...

So true! Lack of information and understanding of mechanism, so we are walking like a bunch of blinds in a dark.
Hopefully, Fonz has some good information...only a few days left...

 

[Golfer18--old]

I was 1300mg.

 

[nandi12]

..

The results contradict the hypothesis that prolactin is involved in the development of gynecomastia...

Panerai, once again you are confusing pubertal gynecomastia with drug induced gynecomastia. I thought this thread was concerned with the latter. The medical literature is replete with case studies of prolactin induced gynecomastia resulting from a variety of drugs. I have reproduced one abstract as an example...

Pharmacopsychiatry 1999 Jan;32(1):41

Gynecomastia with risperidone-fluoxetine combination.

Benazzi F.

Department of Psychiatry Public Hospital Morgagni Forli, Italy.

Gynecomastia (breast enlargement) is a side effect of neuroleptic antipsychotic drugs, related to prolactin elevation caused by
dopamine D2 receptor blockade (Richelson, 1996). The atypical antipsychotic risperidone is less likely to cause gynecomastia at low doses (Casey, 1996). It can cause a dose-dependent increase in serum prolactin concentration (Peuskens, 1995), by blocking dopamine D2 receptors (Richelson, 1996). I would like to describe a patient who did not have gynecomastia with risperidone at a dose of 3 mg/day, but had it when risperidone, at a dose of 0.5 mg/day, was combined with fluoxetine. A MEDLINE search failed to find any reports about such an interaction.

 

[nandi12]

It is my understanding that the reason tren and estradiol are so potent when used in cattle is that the estrogen elevates IGF-1 and the tren somehow sensitizes muscle satellite cells to the effects of the IGF. There is no evidence that tren itself raises IGF levels.

Trenbolone alters the responsiveness of skeletal muscle satellite cells to fibroblast growth factor and insulin-like growth factor I.

Thompson SH, Boxhorn LK, Kong WY, Allen RE.

Department of Animal Sciences, University of Arizona, Tucson 85721.

The potential role of satellite cells in mediating the effect of trenbolone [17 beta-hydroxyestra-4,9-11-trien-3-one (TBOH)] on skeletal muscle hypertrophy was examined. Young female Sprague-Dawley rats received TBOH injections daily for 2 weeks; growth, body composition, and the composition of selected muscles were assessed. Treated rats grew more rapidly and deposited less body lipid and more protein. The semimembranosus muscle from treated rats was larger and had approximately 60% more DNA per muscle than muscles from control rats. The addition of trenbolone directly to the medium of cultured satellite cells did not stimulate cell proliferation,
nor did it augment the stimulatory response of these cells to fibroblast growth factor (FGF) or insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I). In contrast, satellite cells cultured from TBOH-treated rats exhibited greater proliferative responses to FGF and IGF-I than satellite cells from control rats. In addition, serum from TBOH-treated rats stimulated greater cell proliferation in satellite cell cultures than serum from control rats. These experiments suggest that one possible mechanism responsible for the ability of TBOH to stimulate skeletal muscle hypertrophy may be through enhanced proliferation and differentiation of satellite cells as a result of the increased sensitivity of these cells to IGF-I and FGF.

 

[maxes21]

WOW LONG THREAD took me an hour to read it.
im glad im reading this before i start my fina only cycle at 75mg every day.

1. I will be takeing vitex-1000mg a day, or should i take less or more???

2. 10mg nolva a day.

3 cranberry extract 1000mg day, or should i take less or more???

4. ala at 1000mg a day, most people say 6-800mg is that about right???

5. 1-2 gallons of water a day, or at least ill try.

anything else guys???? help me out with some of these dosages, are the about correct??? oh and will the nolvadex be nessesary at all????

 

[jboldman]

this sounds to me like a rational for why test and ta with no anti-e's would be a perfect combination for max effectiveness. I doubt that anyone disputes the facts here.

===========================================

It is my understanding that the reason tren and estradiol are so potent when used in cattle is that the estrogen elevates IGF-1 and the tren somehow sensitizes muscle satellite cells to the effects of the IGF. There is no evidence that tren itself raises IGF levels.

Trenbolone alters the responsiveness of skeletal muscle satellite cells to fibroblast growth factor and insulin-like growth factor I.

Thompson SH, Boxhorn LK, Kong WY, Allen RE.

Department of Animal Sciences, University of Arizona, Tucson 85721.

The potential role of satellite cells in mediating the effect of trenbolone [17 beta-hydroxyestra-4,9-11-trien-3-one (TBOH)] on skeletal muscle hypertrophy was examined. Young female Sprague-Dawley rats received TBOH injections daily for 2 weeks; growth, body composition, and the composition of selected muscles were assessed. Treated rats grew more rapidly and deposited less body lipid and more protein. The semimembranosus muscle from treated rats was larger and had approximately 60% more DNA per muscle than muscles from control rats. The addition of trenbolone directly to the medium of cultured satellite cells did not stimulate cell proliferation,
nor did it augment the stimulatory response of these cells to fibroblast growth factor (FGF) or insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I). In contrast, satellite cells cultured from TBOH-treated rats exhibited greater proliferative responses to FGF and IGF-I than satellite cells from control rats. In addition, serum from TBOH-treated rats stimulated greater cell proliferation in satellite cell cultures than serum from control rats. These experiments suggest that one possible mechanism responsible for the ability of TBOH to stimulate skeletal muscle hypertrophy may be through enhanced proliferation and differentiation of satellite cells as a result of the increased sensitivity of these cells to IGF-I and FGF.

 

[nandi12]

Maxes21, you should heed jboldman's ideas and drop the nolva; it will only hinder your gains on a fina only cycle by lowering your IGF-1 levels. From personal experience, your gains would be significantly better if you added some test.

 

[HighIntensity]

most people I have talked to have not gotten gyno from fina only

 

[LONE_AZ]

I did.. 75 mg EOD 5 weeks into it. I think there is no one size fits all answer to this question. The endocrine system is very complicated and a person’s response to stimulation will vary from person to person.

Simple answer to the fina question it that yes it can cause gyno by several mechanisms.

1. Estrogen rebound
2. Estrogen elevation in response to Prostigenic stimulation
3. Progesterone receptor stimulation
4. Prolactin ( jury is still out) still do not see any direct evidence
5. IGF-I (still questionable) but a statement I believe to be true regardess of the posted bovine studies.

 

[HighIntensity]

so what can we conclude from all this...

A. there is no hope, some get gyno some don't
B. With Vitex added into your cycle youll be fine
C. No fool its nolva and vitex for prevention
D. We really have no clue, mix and match see what works for you
E. Go bra shopping just in case