Free day vs. Refeeds

[Cuts]

Which do y'all think is better in regards to continous fat loss on a low cal diet... two 12-hour high GI refeeds per week, or 1 balls out free day per week. Please also consider the psychological effects of the two. Thanks.

 

[bm2k]

Which do y'all think is better in regards to continous fat loss on a low cal diet... two 12-hour high GI refeeds per week, or 1 balls out free day per week. Please also consider the psychological effects of the two. Thanks.

Definately the two 12-hour high GI refeeds.

Typically a "balls out free day" tends to result in the consumption of food that has an extreme negative effect on your physique and fat loss. Psychologically, this is bad for most people due to the guilt-factor. Consuming pizza, burgers, chocolate etc. doesn't have the same positive effect that a refeed has. If you're consuming a bunch of fat with a high amount of carbs, you're asking for fat gain.

On the other hand, refeeds are nothing but positive steps towards improved and easier fat loss. These have obviously been covered in great depth in other threads around the board.

 

[Kid Dynamite]

A balls out day will do a nice job of completely negating the previous week of dieting.

 

[barnidge]

What is the difference between "Balls out" and a Refeed?

How should calories be calculated?

Is cereal and fat-free ice cream good refeed foods?

 

[Kid Dynamite]

FF Icecream and cereal are cool for re-feeds.
A re-feed is a quick adjustment to your diet that will help if used right. It is a structured bump up in calories using carbs to jump your metabolism and adjust leptin levels. A "balls to the wall" day is eating complete shit all day and screwing your diet. Most people who do this are not mentally tough enough to go a few weeks without there pizza and burgers. It's funny that alot of people who have days like this quit their diet and claim it didn't work because they lose no weight in 2 weeks. Dieting for 6 days then eating 7000 - 8000 calories will usually do a nice job of fucking your diet, really hard. Basically:
Re-feeds = Still dieting
All Out = Fucking your diet
My opinion, of course...

 

[barnidge]

Thanks KD. So would you say for me(210lbs 17%) that I should eat 3500 on refeeds and less than 2500 calories on normal days?

 

[Bobarell]

What I do if I need something really bad......Chinese or Italian food........I wait until my refeed day and eat one cheat meal.

I don't think that one meal a week is going to set back the diet for the whole week. I crave all kinds of things just because I have a 3 year old that eats all the stuff that I used to eat before dieting.

I would never go all out on any one day because I would feel like shit all week. I see people all the time saying that on their cheat day they ate an ungodly amount of food. I feel like I am setting myself back eating 500g of carbs in one day, but it has been talked about and proven on this board so many times that I feel that I need to do it. I used to have one meal out with the family once a week and I did now worry about what I ate because I knew I was good all week. Also, since I am eating 6 times a day my stomach is a lot smaller so I don't end up eating that much anyway.

 

[Vageta]

The main problem with pure unadultered pigging out is you have no idea of how many calories you're consuming and you're probably getting a shit load of fat which is not what you want on a refeed. When refeeding you should be still be counting calorie and macronutrient intake. You should treat a refeed like a strict diet so you hit your intake goals, but your choice of foods will be much more enjoyable.

Fat free sweets are horrible choices when dieting, but they end up being perfect for refeeds. Breakfast cereals, fat free pastries, fat free ice cream, etc... are all great choices. You should also be getting high GI foods on a refeed day. Insulin release plays a large part in restoring leptin levels so low GI carbs aren't as good for this reason. Stick to low GI carbs while on normal diet days and hit the high GI carbs on refeeds. If you're paranoid about fat gain you can always hit some lower GI foods towards the end of the night, but get as much high GI foods as you can during the day.

You can always eat 1 meal on a refeed day that doesn't fit the perfect refeed meal profile, but keep it to 1. If you want to go out to dinner and put some sour cream and butter on your potato then do it. Just don't eat like that the whole day. I usually don't do this because I get enough enjoyment from the carbs alone, but there are occasions where I go out to dinner with family that I'll indulge myself for one meal.

 

[plornive]

Sorry i didn't read any other responses, but two refeeds is better than one. The body adusts very quicky, and two refeeds would result in better lbm retention. For the same caloric deficit, that means greater fat loss (not to mention a more elevated metabolism).

Anabolic and high-leptin states carry over for a few days (not an entire week) into hypocalorism, then cease. Any muscle loss is prevented immediately when the refeed starts. It's all about the duration of hormonal states.

 

[Bobarell]

OK Plornive.

If I am doing a CKD do I take the carbup/refeed days macronutrients and cut the cals/pro/carbs/fat in half and do one on say Wednesday and Saturday?

I think the refeed time frame according to the CKD is 56 total hours so say a full day on Wed and Sat?

 

[_jaap_]

im a big propent of leptin manipulation. So would say go refeeds, altho a lot depends on how lean u allrdy are, 2 refeeds a week would be good if you allrdy pretty lean.

The problem with a real cheat day is that people go for bad meal combinations, i.e. high in sat fat simple carbs and low prot. Can u think of anything worse while dieting?

Well no sex mayb

 

[Creatureofnight]

Well since carbs are really the only thing i crave on a diet and most high fat things have no fat counter parts, refeeds usually leave me feeling like i just ate all the things i wasnt supposed to and still didnt mess my diet up.

I would def. opt for the refeeds instead of just gorging, because like stated above gorging will just negate the previous week of dieting and may even set you back.

I dont know about you guys, but i do 12 hour refeeds every third day and i dont even count my cal on refeeds. I just go by hunger and dont pig out at one sitting. I dont think im going (if i even am) over the 50% mark in cals above maintence and i havent slowed my progress yet.

I believe Par even stated that if your refeeds are short (8-12) hours, then you can really eat all the carbs you want and just keep fat low and protein at around 1gram per lb. Maybe he could clear this up but i think it had something to do w/ your body wont likely turn those carbs into fat in short time periods (8-12 )hours and will be too bust using the carbs to raise leptin levels.

I dont want to put words in his mouth, but i belive it was something to this extent, in that very long thread (the one that was like 8 pages) on refeeding and leptin.

Curious about this, so if Par is listening i would like to hear his thoughts on the matter also.

 

[Kid Dynamite]

OK Plornive.

If I am doing a CKD do I take the carbup/refeed days macronutrients and cut the cals/pro/carbs/fat in half and do one on say Wednesday and Saturday?

I think the refeed time frame according to the CKD is 56 total hours so say a full day on Wed and Sat?

It's better not to do 2 carb-ups a week on a CKD. That would give maybe 2 full days/week in ketosis. If you want to do 2 refeeds a week, I'd switch diets.

 

[Kid Dynamite]

Thanks KD. So would you say for me(210lbs 17%) that I should eat 3500 on refeeds and less than 2500 calories on normal days?

Refeed at around 50% above maintenece and diet at 10 to 20% below. That would probably be best.
Oh yeah, regarding re-feeding, having one so called "bad meal" like a few slices pizza or something won't hurt. I was saying that a full day of this will screw you, both physically and psychologically.

 

[Par Deus]

I believe Par even stated that if your refeeds are short (8-12) hours, then you can really eat all the carbs you want and just keep fat low and protein at around 1gram per lb. Maybe he could clear this up but i think it had something to do w/ your body wont likely turn those carbs into fat in short time periods (8-12 )hours and will be too bust using the carbs to raise leptin levels.

Though a simplification, that is basically correct.

 

[plornive]

OK Plornive.

If I am doing a CKD do I take the carbup/refeed days macronutrients and cut the cals/pro/carbs/fat in half and do one on say Wednesday and Saturday?

I think the refeed time frame according to the CKD is 56 total hours so say a full day on Wed and Sat?

I'm with KD in that you want to stay in ketosis for a while once you get there. I was speaking with regard to non-ketogenic diets earlier.

 

[CrystalChick]

RE

What about a cheat meal....? Eat clean all day long ad have a cheat dinner?

What are your opinions???

Thanks CC

 

[HarmsWayBC]

Par Deus,

Could you elaborate on the process of how the carbs ingested in an 8-12 hour refeed are not used or stored, but rather 'wasted' as heat by the body? This process reminds me of the prcoess oxidative phosphorylation (please forgive my awful spelling) that occurrs with Usnic Acid and DNP (if memory serves me correct)...are these calories simply wasted or do they go to glycogen stores mostly?

 

[Cuts]

Re: RE

What about a cheat meal....? Eat clean all day long ad have a cheat dinner?

What are your opinions???

Thanks CC

lol... this type of question is all too familiar to me... I always post stuff like this HOPING that SOMEBODY AT LEAST ONE FRIGGIN PERSON I DON'T CARE IF HE HAS 3 TOTAL POSTS will say "it's o.k" so I can feel better about screwing around lol. But seriously, I think this was addressed further up in the post -- the consensus seemed to be that one all out cheat MEAL per week was fine/excusable--just as long as it didn't last the whole day.

Good luck!

P.S. I think it is SO cool that we have chicks on these boards too