For you peeps that know about war and such

[pintoca]

what is an "acceptable" or "par" ratio for civilan deaths over enemy deaths.

I'm just reading a whole bunch of people is dead after some air strikes in Afg. Some of them, as usual, are civilian who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time (could be they were home, who knows).

How does this go? What is a good score? 10%? 5% 25%?

Enlighten an otherwise ignorant in these matters.

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/05/22/afghanistan.taliban/index.html

 

[blut wump]

I think it depends on the significance of the target as to how much can be written off as collateral damage.

 

[pintoca]

it sucks to be "collateral damage"

 

[blut wump]

 

[javaguru]

In WWII the allies targeted civilians, the British called it a "de-housing." We aren't targeting civilians just their houses....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dresden_bombing
"Earlier reputable estimates varied from 25,000 to more than 60,000, but historians now view around 25,000–35,000 as the likely range[22][23] with the latest (1994) research by the Dresden historian Friedrich Reichert pointing toward the lower part of this range[24]. It would appear from such estimates that the casualties suffered in the Dresden bombings were not out of proportion to those suffered in other German cities which were subject to firebombing attacks during area bombardment[25]."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire-bombing_of_Tokyo

 

[big4life]

In the end war is a very ugly business. People like to think that you have this smart bomb and you can guide it right onto a target, but they fail to understand that this smart bomb is carrying 500 pounds or more of explosives. You can put that where ever you want it, but the explosive radius is still going to extend far outside of that point. I hate these armchair soldiers who sit in the safety of their home and cheer on a war like it's some video game. People watch CNN and see this bomb dropping, and a big flash, and think that it's so cool. What they don't see are the dead, and dismembered.

Yes, war is neccessary sometimes, but it should never be treated as a game. That does a disservice to all those who are involved in it.

 

[javaguru]

In the end war is a very ugly business. People like to think that you have this smart bomb and you can guide it right onto a target, but they fail to understand that this smart bomb is carrying 500 pounds or more of explosives. You can put that where ever you want it, but the explosive radius is still going to extend far outside of that point. I hate these armchair soldiers who sit in the safety of their home and cheer on a war like it's some video game. People watch CNN and see this bomb dropping, and a big flash, and think that it's so cool. What they don't see are the dead, and dismembered.

Yes, war is neccessary sometimes, but it should never be treated as a game. That does a disservice to all those who are involved in it.

Yeah, it becomes "real" when you watch a buddy bleed out no matter what you do.

 

[JarheadChiro]

CO-llateral damge is a fact and a factor of war, the higher ups usually have "acceptable" or ligitamate percentages.

If your a a Soldier, Airman, Sailor or Marine, the emotional toll is immeasurable though.

 

[chefbone]

CO-llateral damge is a fact and a factor of war, the higher ups usually have "acceptable" or ligitamate percentages.

If your a a Soldier, Airman, Sailor or Marine, the emotional tool is immeasurable though.

I could'nt have said it better myself. My battles (buddies) are far more important than anything broham.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

lots of factors come into play, like the nationality of the collateral, and whether or not the media finds out about it

 

[wootoom]

war is right

 

[chefbone]

war is right

War is neccessary

 

[wootoom]

War is neccessary

LOL ya real necessary

 

[chefbone]

LOL ya real necessary

Especially if you are the USA's lil' brother

 

[wootoom]

Especially if you are the USA's lil' brother

well im not, LOL proud to be canadian and i like hockey

 

[chefbone]

well im not, LOL proud to be canadian and i like hockey

Hockey is almost kewl....I sometimes wish I never played because I think Hockey is the reason my body is so fugged up these days!

 

[fortunatesun]

It's not about casualties per se, it's about securing an objective. Once you've committed to an action casualties are a function of how they affect the outcome. You can have too many casualties and consequently fail to acheive your immediate goal. You can win your immediate battle, but suffer too many casualties to win your long range strategy. You can the war but have nothing left to continue- the pyrrhic victory.

Civilian, or collateral damages, such as goldendelicious and jarhead described, are to be factored in as well. Ideally, there is no differing values placed on human life, either combattant or otherwise. In life or death situations, this becomes relative to the individual's point of view. In terms of planning and strategy, this will say alot about who you are as a human being and/or the society you come from. Warfare in the ancient world was considered an honorable profession for these reasons.

 

[chesty]

what is an "acceptable" or "par" ratio for civilan deaths over enemy deaths.

I'm just reading a whole bunch of people is dead after some air strikes in Afg. Some of them, as usual, are civilian who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time (could be they were home, who knows).

How does this go? What is a good score? 10%? 5% 25%?

Enlighten an otherwise ignorant in these matters.

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/05/22/afghanistan.taliban/index.html

there really is no percentage each situation is different and analzyed to see what could be done next time to minimize the loss

 

[pintoca]

"collateral damage".

sounds pretty clever, it has the potential to make even the shittiest mistakes look as "It was planned that way, we are that intelligent".

I guess you can make anything sound good given enough time to think about it.

it sucks. It implies your death is not even important, fuck that.

Wootoom = agreed

 

[mountain muscle]

If your men all make it home alive then any percentage is acceptable.

 

[jnuts]

what is an "acceptable" or "par" ratio for civilan deaths over enemy deaths.

You would not believe the ass pain we go through to minimize the possibilities of collateral damage. Nobody likes fucking it up.

 

[pintoca]

You would not believe the ass pain we go through to minimize the possibilities of collateral damage. Nobody likes fucking it up.

I believe all efforts are made to avoid it, yet no effort will eliminate it. It's the nature of War